[HN Gopher] 'Hovering ship' photographed off Cornish coast by wa...
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       'Hovering ship' photographed off Cornish coast by walker
        
       Author : jmkd
       Score  : 475 points
       Date   : 2021-03-05 11:10 UTC (11 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.bbc.co.uk)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.bbc.co.uk)
        
       | strawBarry wrote:
       | "Venus was at its peak brilliance last night. You probably
       | thought you saw something up in the sky other than Venus, but I
       | assure you, it was Venus." - Jesse Ventura
        
       | jonplackett wrote:
       | This is making me think again about all those UFO sightings in
       | The Phenomenon!
        
       | randomsearch wrote:
       | When I see things like this, I imagine how people would have
       | reacted before we had explanations... it isn't difficult to
       | imagine where some myths and religious stories originate.
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | tartoran wrote:
       | Id pinch myself if I ever see that before my eyes. And when I see
       | that Im not dreaming I'd be stunned. I still am as I've never
       | seen this one so up in the air before
        
       | sandworm101 wrote:
       | I know these things are happen and I understand the effect, but
       | has anyone looked into whether this was photoshopped? Major news
       | outlets have been fooled in the past. Maybe it is a compression
       | artifact, but the lines of this image look so perfect that I have
       | to at least ask.
        
       | mikhailfranco wrote:
       | What has the world come to, when a BBC 'journalist' can write an
       | article like this, without even including the words 'fata
       | morgana'?
       | 
       | Of course, we know the answer, it is a _comprehensive_ lack of
       | education, and a total failure of any claim to knowledge, by a
       | self-appointed class, which pretends to tell us about the world.
       | 
       | I would normally just say _caveat emptor,_ and hope the
       | journalist would be fired, or the news agency go out of business
       | immediately, but the Brits have a mandatory tax, called the  'TV
       | License' to sustain all this bullshit.
        
         | Ragnarork wrote:
         | If this is your metric for how the world is doing, then it's
         | fine.
         | 
         | Of course we know it isn't, but this right here is absolutely
         | not a core issue with it.
        
         | kiba wrote:
         | Comprehensive lack of education? People received an education
         | for ~12 years.
         | 
         |  _In most parts of the world, I would say _caveat emptor_ and
         | the agency would go out of business immediately, but the Brits
         | have a mandatory tax, called the 'TV License' to pay for this
         | bullshit._
         | 
         | Would they?
         | 
         | This is the first time I heard of this phenomena, so I wouldn't
         | know.
        
           | mikhailfranco wrote:
           | If you are British, you will recognise my italics.
           | 
           | It is perfectly acceptable for any member of the public to be
           | ignorant of some unusual phenomenon. It would be fine if this
           | was a blog from the walker who took the photo. But it is not
           | acceptable for a professional 'journalist': either they are a
           | 'science correspondent' and they should know the answer; or
           | they are temp-ing in the science department, and should ask
           | an expert, or at least find 5 minutes from their busy day to
           | google the explanation.
           | 
           | Then again, most 'journalists' these days seem to be employed
           | by the 'social media' department.
        
             | danbruc wrote:
             | I am not an expert but according to Wikipedia this is a
             | superior mirage just as the article says but not a Fata
             | Morgana [2] which is a subclass of superior mirage that has
             | multiple stacked images. So the uneducated author got it
             | right after all. ;-)
             | 
             | [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mirage
             | 
             | [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fata_Morgana_(mirage)
        
               | mikhailfranco wrote:
               | Your 5 minutes of googling is already more informative
               | than the article. Did the article say it was not a 'fata
               | morgana'? No. How long did the effect last? We don't
               | know. Did the ship image move, or disappear, or return to
               | the horizon? We don't know. Were there multiple images?
               | We don't know. Did he take just one photo? We don't
               | know...
        
         | brokencode wrote:
         | Wow, what a toxic attitude you have towards journalists. This
         | is a fluff piece, not a serious piece of investigative
         | journalism. The bar does not not need to be very high for this
         | kind of article.
        
           | mikhailfranco wrote:
           | Well, the bar should be a little higher, and in particular,
           | it should be higher for the taxpayer-funded BBC, which would
           | once have thought it had a reputation to protect, but now
           | seems to have destroyed its integrity in favour of _fluff
           | pieces_ - whatever that is supposed to mean - empty articles
           | for empty people?
        
             | brokencode wrote:
             | I don't look at BBC news much, but now looking at its
             | website, I have to agree with you that there is too much of
             | this kind of content there. Its home page has articles
             | about flying ships, eggs, and pterodactyls.. it does look
             | like they are hitting a pretty low bar across the board, so
             | maybe you're on to something.
        
           | Ragnarork wrote:
           | Even for a fluff piece, this clears a relatively simple yet
           | efficient bar: get the impressions of the photographer, bring
           | in an expert's take to explain the science behind it, and
           | that's it.
           | 
           | Note that apparently the expert didn't need to mention the
           | words "fata morgana" either, so maybe that's a stupid focus
           | point after all which just sounds like elitism at this point.
           | 
           | I know who here "pretends to tell us about the world" and
           | it's not the journalist.
        
         | [deleted]
        
       | injb wrote:
       | But why does the ship appear in that location, and not the water
       | it's sitting on? What's special about the ship?
        
         | Someone wrote:
         | The ship is higher up than the water it is floating on.
         | 
         | You don't see the keel of the ship, but only parts of it that
         | are above the waterline, and not all of those (corollary: this
         | ship is as good as empty)
         | 
         | Less impressive versions of this would show only the top of the
         | bridge, or the entire ship and some of the water it's floating
         | on (actually, this image might show some water below the ship.
         | That tiny whitish line below it could be that)
        
         | clord wrote:
         | The ship is over the horizon but a fiber optic effect caused by
         | inverted thermals projects the ship into the sky for the
         | distant observer.
        
         | voodootrucker wrote:
         | As near as I can tell from the wikipedia link in the comments
         | below, it's because the ship is perpendicular to the water and
         | the light just happens to be being refracted to that particular
         | observer right at the water line.
         | 
         | [0]
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fata_Morgana_(mirage)#/media/F...
        
         | leetrout wrote:
         | I wouldn't be surprised to discover the photographer had to
         | adjust their position to capture just the ship
        
         | pavon wrote:
         | I think the explanation in the article is incorrect. This looks
         | more like a false horizon caused by reflection of the fog on
         | the water, rather than a mirage.
         | 
         | There is fog out past the ship. The water close to the viewer
         | is reflecting the sky, and is blue, while water further out is
         | reflecting the fog. The fog above the horizon blends in with
         | the water reflecting the fog making it hard to see the true
         | horizon line (but it is there in the picture if you look
         | closely). The line where this reflection changes stands out
         | much more strongly and the eye mistakes it for the horizon
         | line.
         | 
         | This page has more examples of cases where these two different
         | effects were confused:
         | https://www.metabunk.org/threads/debunked-fata-morgana-or-mi...
        
           | danaliv wrote:
           | I think you're right. I've seen Fata Morgana and it looks
           | nothing like this. With atmospheric ducting you get (even
           | more) surreal images, with all kinds of distortion and
           | mirroring. If you've ever driven through salt flats and seen
           | floating, horizontally symmetric mountains, you'll know what
           | I mean. Look more closely at these pictures and you'll see
           | that the fog and the true horizon are indeed visible.
        
         | tobr wrote:
         | As far as I can tell, it's just a lucky coincidence that the
         | distortion "cropped out" the water in this case, causing an
         | exceptionally clean illusion. Compare with other images of fata
         | Morgana[1] and you can see how it tends to look more distorted.
         | 
         | 1: https://duckduckgo.com/?q=fata+morgana&iax=images&ia=images
        
           | hu3 wrote:
           | From your link I found this picture of 3 flying ships.
           | 
           | https://i0.wp.com/www.astropt.org/blog/wp-
           | content/uploads/20...
           | 
           | I can feel my brain contorting a bit.
        
       | marcodiego wrote:
       | Food for conspiracy theorists and flat-earthers.
        
       | cvaidya1986 wrote:
       | Best cover up article yet for alien hovering tech
        
       | Thomashuet wrote:
       | The title should be 'Hovering ship', as it is in the BBC article.
       | There is nothing special about a floating ship.
        
         | dang wrote:
         | The submitter posted the title that the article had at the
         | time. Then the BBC changed it there. Then a moderator changed
         | it here. And then a moderator (this one!) marked this subthread
         | --which was stuck to the top of the page, gathering mass and
         | choking out anything interesting--off topic.
         | 
         | I don't fault the comment for that so much as the upvotes, but
         | downweighting top subthreads that are off-topic and/or generic
         | in uninteresting ways is probably the highest-leverage
         | intervention that moderators do here. Unfortunately it requires
         | human intervention, and we don't see all the threads, so if
         | anyone notices an off-topic or generic top subthread before we
         | do, letting us know at hn@ycombinator.com is super helpful.
        
         | balabaster wrote:
         | To be fair, there's nothing particularly special about hovering
         | ships either given the invention of the hovercraft...
        
         | agumonkey wrote:
         | Hey don't diminish human prowess.
        
           | klingon79 wrote:
           | Yes, we've had hovering craft for a while; they typically
           | appear to be closer to the water, though.
        
         | mdeck_ wrote:
         | Hm. But is there anything particularly special about a hovering
         | ship... a hovering... craft? :)
        
           | dylan604 wrote:
           | It would be very special if it were built by aliens
        
             | klingon79 wrote:
             | It likely was- but probably the terrestrial, non-
             | xenobiological kind.
        
               | dylan604 wrote:
               | the use of this term in this manner has been deprecated
        
               | AnimalMuppet wrote:
               | By whom?
        
               | dylan604 wrote:
               | current US Pres Admin. there was a memo. did you not get
               | it?
        
               | AnimalMuppet wrote:
               | No, I don't get US Presidential memos. Also, last I
               | checked, the US President was not in charge of how words
               | are allowed to be used on HN.
        
               | dylan604 wrote:
               | Like there's really a memo. It's been in so many
               | different news outlets. The current admin is trying to
               | distance from previous use of the word. And if you think
               | I was being serious, then you must not have gotten the
               | memo on sarcasm. You should really declutter your inbox.
               | You seem to be missing a lot of memos.
        
           | theandrewbailey wrote:
           | Yes, because it's full of eels.
        
             | gnabgib wrote:
             | I will not buy this record, it is scratched
        
               | dllthomas wrote:
               | This is a tobacconist's.
        
         | capableweb wrote:
         | I think "Flying" would be even better, as the ship is most
         | likely moving somewhere, not just standing still.
         | 
         | Would also tie the story into the story of the Flying Dutchman
         | (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flying_Dutchman) and maybe
         | provide some explanation for why people been seeing it as
         | flying
        
           | throwawayForMe2 wrote:
           | Especially if you can see big sails flapping or moving with
           | the wind.
        
             | 8note wrote:
             | Or if it's got a hydrofoil. Those are also flying, just in
             | water
        
           | vidarh wrote:
           | The first time I read about optical illusions like these as a
           | kid was this Uncle Scrooge story referencing the Flying
           | Dutchman:
           | 
           | http://duckcomicsrevue.blogspot.com/2016/10/the-flying-
           | dutch...
        
           | jarmitage wrote:
           | In this case, being off the coast of Falmouth, the ship is
           | more than likely standing still.
        
           | tendencydriven wrote:
           | It is more than likely not moving anywhere.
        
         | mannykannot wrote:
         | The original title may have changed in response to similar
         | comments.
        
           | dustinmoris wrote:
           | BBC article names change very frequently, often multiple
           | times in only a few hours.
        
             | itcrowd wrote:
             | Probably A/B testing through social media clicks.
        
               | [deleted]
        
             | tasogare wrote:
             | Le Monde in France do that too. They even go as far as
             | rewriting portions of their articles after publishing, and
             | partially re-using them under different title(s). Hard to
             | take them seriously when they cry about fake news when
             | their own articles are so malleable.
        
             | marshmallow_12 wrote:
             | reassuring to know i'm not the only one we [edit:who] (the
             | irony) edits my post:)
        
               | petercooper wrote:
               | Just for fun, you can track title edits happening on HN
               | as well! https://hackernewstitles.netlify.app/
        
               | marshmallow_12 wrote:
               | thanks.
        
         | codetrotter wrote:
         | For future reference, the current title on HN is:
         | 
         | > 'Floating ship' photographed off Cornish coast by walker
         | 
         | https://archive.is/JcBUY
         | 
         | And the current title on BBC is:
         | 
         | > 'Hovering ship' photographed off Cornish coast by walker
         | 
         | https://archive.is/AyAK4
         | 
         | Interestingly though, because of the quotation marks I
         | understood "floating" to mean, as intended, that it looked like
         | the ship was in the air and didn't even think about the
         | possible ambiguity until I read your comment about it.
        
           | jmkd wrote:
           | BBC article at the time of posting was indeed 'Floating ship'
        
             | judge2020 wrote:
             | For reference:
             | https://twitter.com/KeirGiles/status/1367742771017224196
        
               | dvtrn wrote:
               | _I might even go so far as to say that that is their
               | desirable default state._
               | 
               | As long as the front doesn't fall off.
        
               | lostlogin wrote:
               | If anyone doesn't get the reference, this is required
               | viewing. It's gold. https://youtu.be/3m5qxZm_JqM
        
               | mrec wrote:
               | Marvellous; I'd never seen this.
               | 
               | The format and humour remind me very strongly of the Bird
               | & Fortune (aka The Long Johns) skits here in the UK:
               | 
               | https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=bird+%26+for
               | tun...
        
               | dvtrn wrote:
               | You should watch more of these two, Clark and Dawe on
               | YouTube. Behind the humor is biting commentary but a lot
               | of education, I learned a lot through their humorous and
               | pretend political interviews as an American about the
               | Australian government and even the European debt crisis.
               | 
               | John Clark (the one who kept insisting the front fell
               | off) passed away a few years ago.
        
               | btilly wrote:
               | See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kirki_(tanker) for the
               | real life ship that inspired that piece of comedy.
        
               | Cullinet wrote:
               | under the related articles is the 1990 spill of the
               | tanker "Mega Borg". After reading the first time about
               | "the front fell off", I am given to think that the
               | earlier comedic opportunity has gone sadly missed. [Ed.
               | but I don't know if Scorpio Tankers Inc took the ticker
               | STNG for related reasons...]
        
               | dennis_jeeves wrote:
               | > their desirable default state.
               | 
               | Who would have guessed...
        
               | mindcrime wrote:
               | I can honestly say I laughed until I cried the first time
               | I saw that. Possibly the most hilarious thing I've ever
               | seen in my life.
        
           | ALittleLight wrote:
           | When I read the title I assumed it meant something like a
           | hovercraft.
        
         | gumby wrote:
         | Since, as you say, one expects a ship to float, I assumed
         | "hover" was intended and the title to be deliberately jocular.
        
         | jader201 wrote:
         | I'm guessing the (current) HN title was the original BBC title,
         | and someone figured this out and changed it (after it was
         | posted here).
        
         | HenryBemis wrote:
         | Sigur Ros - Valtari (2012)
         | 
         | Imho it s a great album. It also has a 'hovering ship' on its
         | cover:
         | http://www.progarchives.com/progressive_rock_discography_cov...
        
         | mc32 wrote:
         | Title should be 'Fata Morgana sighted off Cornish Coast.'
        
           | danbruc wrote:
           | No, it is not a Fata Morgana [1] but a superior mirage [2] as
           | the article says. A Fata Morgana is a subclass of superior
           | mirage that has multiple distorted images. Just learned this
           | because of another comment. Whether calling it a Fata Morgana
           | would be appropriate because it is the common laymen term for
           | mirages in English I can not tell as non-native speaker.
           | 
           | [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fata_Morgana_(mirage)
           | 
           | [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mirage
        
             | wnoise wrote:
             | The requirement for multiple distorted images is ... in
             | dispute.
        
             | rapnie wrote:
             | Another form of mirage are the Marfa Lights on Route 67,
             | where (of course) UFO's were quickly in the picture. Most
             | probably headlights, campfires.
             | 
             | https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marfa_lights
        
               | quickthrowman wrote:
               | I've seen one similar to the Marfa Lights, Paulding Light
               | in the Upper Peninsula of Michigan. Paulding Light is
               | caused by car headlights.
               | 
               | https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paulding_Light
        
             | pavon wrote:
             | Actually, in this case, I don't think it is any type of
             | mirage. Rather it is a false horizon [1] caused by
             | reflection of fog.
             | 
             | [1] https://www.metabunk.org/threads/debunked-fata-morgana-
             | or-mi...
        
         | whateveryoua381 wrote:
         | While not special, it is accurate!
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | throwawaycodrrr wrote:
       | This is why you never use negative margin in CSS.
        
       | piinbinary wrote:
       | I wonder if effects like these were the inspiration for the
       | design of the imperial star destroyers in Star Wars.
        
       | im3w1l wrote:
       | Why is there a hovering ship but no hovering sea?
        
         | Marazan wrote:
         | The only important question in the world right now.
        
         | mensetmanusman wrote:
         | The image of the ship would be dominated by reflected light off
         | of side of the ship, water would not cause the same turn around
         | due to the grazing rays.
        
       | nerpderp82 wrote:
       | Heh, Optical DX
       | 
       | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DXing#DX_Communication
        
       | vanderZwan wrote:
       | Anyone else instantly hear the Imperial March and imagining
       | X-wings and Tie-fighters flying around it upon seeing that photo?
       | (and I'm not even a Star Wars fan)
       | 
       | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-bzWSJG93P8
        
       | ericmay wrote:
       | And now you know the source of the "Flying" Dutchman ;)
        
       | leetrout wrote:
       | Some think this affected the crew on the Titanic and prevented
       | them from seeing the iceberg and some closer ships from seeing
       | her.
       | 
       | https://www.popsci.com/science/article/2012-03/today-good-re...
        
       | throwawinsider wrote:
       | This is just a sample of the possibilities in post Brexit Britain
        
       | jeffmcmahan wrote:
       | I live on Lake Erie, and I've seen this effect before. There will
       | be a point between the shore and the horizon at which the water
       | takes on exactly the hue and luminance of the sky, and makes
       | lakers, sailboats, buoys, even a nearby lighthouse, appear to
       | hover. If the point of transition in the color of the water is
       | pretty straight and is parallel with the actual horizon, the
       | effect is convincing.
        
         | jeffwass wrote:
         | That's not the case here. In this case the ship was 'hovering'
         | due to an atmospheric effect called Superior Mirage.
         | 
         | https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mirage#Superior_mirage
        
           | treesprite82 wrote:
           | The image in the article looks more like a false horizon
           | (change in color of sea makes it blend into the sky), as
           | jeffmcmahan is describing. You can just about make out the
           | real horizon in the image.
           | 
           | Clearer example of false horizon:
           | https://i.imgur.com/WHzQJ3Z.png
           | 
           | A superior mirage would usually cause more distortion and
           | likely wouldn't so cleanly cut out the ship.
           | 
           | Clearer example of superior mirage:
           | https://i.imgur.com/pa16mOk.png
        
       | chrisbuc wrote:
       | There was one in our local newspaper last year at Folkestone (UK)
       | 
       | https://www.kentonline.co.uk/folkestone/news/floating-ship-a...
        
         | iso1631 wrote:
         | Also with the hilarious headline
         | 
         | 'Floating ship' appears over Folkestone harbour
        
       | GameOfKnowing wrote:
       | Honestly given that weird explanation, I think Occam's Razor says
       | that ship can fly 0.0
        
         | ojnabieoot wrote:
         | The schematic here on Wikipedia might help clarify:
         | https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Fada_morgana_graphnn...
         | 
         | If instead of layers of warm/cold air there were giant glass
         | lenses hovering over the ocean, the mirage wouldn't be
         | mysterious.
        
           | xaduha wrote:
           | I think they were attempting a joke. Hot-road mirage is a
           | common thing that most people that were in a car trip during
           | summer have seen, same principles.
        
             | ojnabieoot wrote:
             | I'm aware it was a joke :) But I think the confusion was
             | sincere; the explanation in the article is lacking if you
             | don't have a clear picture to begin with.
        
           | leobabauta wrote:
           | I'd find giant lenses hovering over the ocean to be pretty
           | mysterious.
        
           | Igelau wrote:
           | Ah, so there's a man on an island bobbing fake ships on his
           | massive attenae. It's like the myth of the Sirens but instead
           | of ladies saying, "come heeeeere" it's a dude saying, "look a
           | shiiiip".
        
       | prepend wrote:
       | Off topic, but BBC blocks me because I use iPhone's Adblock.
       | 
       | BBC is government funded with a mission to inform the British
       | people. Why would they require ad viewing and default to not
       | showing news without ads? Seems against their mission.
       | 
       | For profit news I understand as the whole "maximize shareholder
       | equity" thing, but when government news sources use these anti-
       | consumer tactics it's depressing to me.
        
         | pmontra wrote:
         | uBlock Origin with Firefox on Android. The site loaded fine.
        
         | M2Ys4U wrote:
         | The BBC is _not_ a government news source. It 's not even
         | funded by the UK government.[0] It is - by law[1] - required to
         | be completely editorially independent.
         | 
         | The BBC is primarily funded by the TV Licence. The licence is
         | levvied on anyone who watches live TV (any live TV) or uses
         | BBC's SVoD service, BBC iPlayer.
         | 
         | The BBC does operate a commercial subsidiary (BBC Studios), and
         | the main BBC does have other revenue sources like patents owned
         | by BBC R&D and, as you have noted, advertising on bbc.com for
         | people who are outside of the UK.
         | 
         | [0] Well... there are some grants given to the BBC to fund its
         | activities internationally, but those are quite limited in
         | scope and size.
         | 
         | [1] https://www.bbc.com/aboutthebbc/governance/charter
        
           | switch007 wrote:
           | This is cherry picking information about the BBC.
           | 
           | The chairman has worked for the PM and the Chancellor and has
           | donated large sums to the Conservative party.
           | 
           | The BBC Director General is an ex Conservative Party
           | councillor.
           | 
           | The BBC board Chairman and the non-executives are effectively
           | appointed by the government.
        
           | londons_explore wrote:
           | > required to be completely editorially independent.
           | 
           | Although historically it seems very rare that the BBC view on
           | any international politics differs from that of the UK
           | government.
           | 
           | Hopefully that's because both cater to the views of the
           | British public, but it also seems possible that there is some
           | kind of informal backchannel going on...
        
             | hardlianotion wrote:
             | > Although historically it seems very rare that the BBC
             | view on any international politics differs from that of the
             | UK government.
             | 
             | I know a lot of Britishers that would dispute this version
             | of affairs. To my mind the typical BBC point of view is
             | mildly left-of-centre, well-to-do and urban.
        
               | marshmallow_12 wrote:
               | >To my mind the typical BBC point of view is mildly left-
               | of-centre, well-to-do and urban.
               | 
               | sounds accurate.
        
               | statstutor wrote:
               | > the typical BBC point of view is mildly left-of-centre
               | 
               | Many people would claim that the BBC is left-of-centre,
               | but if you look at their most prominent/best paid
               | journalists, that is near-objectively not the case.
               | 
               | Andrew Neil was been one of the highest paid BBC
               | journalists 2003-2020, having previously worked for
               | Rupert Murdoch, and has gone on to be Chair [correction:
               | Chairman] of "GB News".
               | 
               | GB News hosts the most right-wing voices in British
               | political discourse, and been compared to Fox News in
               | this respect.
               | 
               | I might concede that the BBC is left-of-centre compared
               | to the average British news media, but given that British
               | news media is exclusively owned by conservative
               | billionaires, I'm not convinced this is a great anchor
               | point.
        
               | iso1631 wrote:
               | On the flip side you could argue that Andrew Neil leaving
               | the BBC shows evidence of it not being right wing.
               | 
               | Fundamentally the BBC is definitely left wing[0], with
               | enourmous right wing bias[1]
               | 
               | Everyone agrees [2] it's biased.
               | 
               | [0] https://www.cps.org.uk/files/reports/original/1308141
               | 02945-B...
               | 
               | [1] https://inews.co.uk/culture/television/bbc-left-
               | right-wing-b...
               | 
               | [2] https://inews.co.uk/culture/television/bbc-left-
               | right-wing-b...
        
           | asdfasgasdgasdg wrote:
           | The TV license is a tax imposed by the government, ergo the
           | BBC is funded by the UK government.
        
             | M2Ys4U wrote:
             | >The TV license is a tax imposed by the government
             | 
             | The requirement to hold a licence is a statutory one.
             | Likewise, payment of the fee must, by law, be made to the
             | BBC, and enforcement of the licensing regime must be done
             | by (or on behalf of) the BBC.
             | 
             | Thus, it is Parliament, not the government, that imposes
             | the tax.
             | 
             | (Yes, I know that all taxes must have a statutory basis,
             | but this is one that is levied outside of the usual
             | budgetary process using Finance Acts (the passage of which
             | are traditionally considered confidence votes), and the TV
             | Licence is not considered by government as part of its
             | annual budget).
        
               | asdfasgasdgasdg wrote:
               | Parliament is a part of the government, at least under
               | the en_us understanding of the word.
               | 
               | Government n. 1. the governing body of a nation, state,
               | or community.
        
               | M2Ys4U wrote:
               | That's a very broad definition. It's definitely not one
               | that is shared in en-GB nor, at least to my knowledge,
               | amongst other English dialects.
               | 
               | Are opposition legislators considered "members of the
               | government", even if they don't actually, well, govern
               | anything?
        
               | asdfasgasdgasdg wrote:
               | Yes, in the same way that I would consider a government
               | employee who does not have carte blanche to be part of
               | the government, even when not every decision they make is
               | implemented. The government is the entire apparatus that
               | governs a state, under the en_us definition.
               | 
               | If you changed the funding of RT to be controlled by the
               | Duma, but left all other details intact, would you then
               | say that RT is not government sponsored? To me, that
               | seems like an odd distinction to make. It doesn't capture
               | what most people find salient when talking about
               | government sponsorship of the media. To wit: where is the
               | money -- and therefore power -- coming from? Is it
               | primarily controlled by the people or is it controlled by
               | the rulers?
        
               | stjohnswarts wrote:
               | Wait, hold up, the Parliament is not the government?
               | That's a very confusing take.
        
               | monadgonad wrote:
               | > the Parliament is not the government?
               | 
               | Correct. In the UK, "government" refers to the ministers
               | currently in power, the "executive branch of the
               | government" in US terms.
        
               | M2Ys4U wrote:
               | What's confusing about it?
               | 
               | The government wields executive power, Parliament
               | legislates and holds the government to account.
        
               | iso1631 wrote:
               | The confusing part is that the government has to maintain
               | the confidence of the house, and is comprised of members
               | of parliament.
               | 
               | Normally the government whips mean that parliament does
               | whatever the government tell it to do, so "holds the
               | government to account" is a laughable statement.
               | 
               | Unlike the US system where the president can easily not
               | have the confidence of the Senate or House (R president,
               | D House, D Senate for example), and appoints his own
               | secretaries from a pool of 300+m people, in the UK, the
               | prime minister appoints ministers from parliament
               | (usually the house of commons but can appoint from house
               | of lords). Technically the PM could make a new lord (like
               | Blair did with Sugar), but it's convoluted, and
               | conventionally the main jobs must go to MPs
               | 
               | Most people think "I like Boris, I vote for him as PM, he
               | runs the country". In the last 5 years this has broken
               | down and parliament has asserted itself more -- this
               | independence was punished at the ballot box in December
               | 2019.
        
               | Turing_Machine wrote:
               | > Thus, it is Parliament, not the government, that
               | imposes the tax.
               | 
               | I think we're encountering the "two countries separated
               | by a common language" thing here.
               | 
               | "Government" (in the UK sense) refers only to the current
               | Prime Minister and assistants, yes? In the US sense,
               | Congress is considered to be part of the "government".
        
               | M2Ys4U wrote:
               | >"Government" (in the UK sense) refers only to the
               | current Prime Minister and assistants, yes? In the US
               | sense, Congress is considered to be part of the
               | "government".
               | 
               | Broadly, yes; "The government" almost exclusively refers
               | to the executive. So, The Crown, ministers, and perhaps
               | the civil service depending on the context.
        
               | fsckboy wrote:
               | but the license fee is not imposed by one government
               | after another, it is imposed by law, a law passed by a
               | government and enforced by a sequence of governments
               | thereafter
        
           | seneca wrote:
           | > It's not even funded by the UK government.[0]
           | 
           | > The BBC is primarily funded by the TV Licence. The licence
           | is levvied on anyone who watches live TV (any live TV)
           | 
           | Who mandates the payment of a TV License and allocates the
           | funds from it to the BBC? I would assume that's the UK
           | government. These terms may be used differently in the UK,
           | but in the US that would be considered government funded.
        
             | iso1631 wrote:
             | The license is mandated (in certain circumstances), however
             | the funds are collected by the BBC directly.
             | 
             | The US mandates obamacare I believe, does that mean it's
             | government funded?
        
               | seneca wrote:
               | > The license is mandated (in certain circumstances),
               | however the funds are collected by the BBC directly.
               | 
               | Interesting. I would still consider that government
               | funded, personally, since it's a mandatory fee imposed by
               | the government and applied to all TV watchers, not just
               | consumers of the BBc. It's certainly a bit more blurry
               | though with the direct collection.
               | 
               | > The US mandates obamacare I believe, does that mean
               | it's government funded?
               | 
               | It depends what you mean. "Obamacare" is an extremely
               | broad term.
               | 
               | Speaking generally: If the government is mandating a fee
               | for some activity, and allocating the funds from said fee
               | to some entity, that entity is government funded. Those
               | fees are defacto taxes.
        
               | iso1631 wrote:
               | > Interesting. I would still consider that government
               | funded, personally, since it's a mandatory fee imposed by
               | the government and applied to all TV watchers, not just
               | consumers of the BBc. It's certainly a bit more blurry
               | though with the direct collection.
               | 
               | Not all consumers. No need for a TV license to listen to
               | radio 4, or use the website.
               | 
               | I do have a TV license, but that's mainly because I very
               | occasionally use iplayer - I don't even own a TV aerial.
               | 
               | Some states in America require a dog license and/or a cat
               | license, is that a tax? Is a fishing license a tax? How
               | about a fee to enter a national park?
               | 
               | In at least some states in the US the government mandates
               | you to have car insurance if the car is operated on the
               | public highway. This mandatory fee is collected by
               | private companies and goes to private companies, is it a
               | tax?
        
               | seneca wrote:
               | > Not all consumers. No need for a TV license to listen
               | to radio 4, or use the website.
               | 
               | I may misunderstand then. In order to watch live TV in
               | the UK you must pay a fee, mandated by the government,
               | and that fee is paid to the BBC? If that's the case, I
               | stand by what I said previously.
               | 
               | > Some states in America require a dog license and/or a
               | cat license, is that a tax? Is a fishing license a tax?
               | How about a fee to enter a national park?
               | 
               | A defacto tax, yes, to all of these. Taking the
               | definition of tax I receive from Google and trimming to
               | the relevant bit: "a compulsory contribution to state
               | revenue ... added to the cost of some goods, services,
               | and transactions." The state says "you must have
               | permission to have a dog. If you want permission, you
               | must pay". That's a compulsory contribution added to the
               | cost of some service.
               | 
               | > In at least some states in the US the government
               | mandates you to have car insurance if the car is operated
               | on the public highway. This mandatory fee is collected by
               | private companies and goes to private companies, is it a
               | tax?
               | 
               | That's an interesting question! My knee jerk reaction is
               | no, and I think it is because the insurance provider is
               | actually selling me a service separate and distinct from
               | the activity. That is to say, the BBC is selling "TV" and
               | you're paying a fee. The insurance carrier is selling me
               | a promise that they'll pay me if something should go
               | wrong while I drive, not driving itself.
               | 
               | I fully admit that's a tenuous difference, and I could
               | probably be convinced otherwise. You make a good point.
        
               | grkvlt wrote:
               | So, is car insurance a tax, then?
        
           | arghwhat wrote:
           | Same in Denmark, but the collective opinion is that the
           | structure makes the license a TV tax (a yearly fee you must
           | pay by government mandate as a result of owning a type of
           | device irrespective of use) that goes to the media company,
           | thus making it state funded by that tax, regardless of what
           | the company and government claim.
           | 
           | If it was independent it would have to sell its services on
           | its own, with citizens purchasing the service only if they
           | wished to use it.
           | 
           | In Denmark we're also soon abolishing the license and just
           | making it a normal tax. The structure was pointless and the
           | attempted indirection only angered people, especially as it
           | was expanded to also apply to anyone having internet access
           | over a certain bandwidth.
           | 
           | Furthermore, anything funded by law cannot be truly
           | independent in content either, as it will wish to appease the
           | hand that feeds it.
        
             | iso1631 wrote:
             | > a TV tax (a yearly fee you must pay by government mandate
             | as a result of owning a type of device irrespective of use
             | 
             | That's not the case in the UK. You only need a TV license
             | if you use equipment to receive a live TV programme (which
             | is something that falls under the remit of OFCOM[1] - not a
             | livestream of Everyday Astronaut), or if you use BBC's
             | iplayer.
             | 
             | [1] Specifically from 2003 communications act
             | "television programme service" means any of the following--
             | * a television broadcasting service;       * a television
             | licensable content service;       * a digital television
             | programme service;       * a restricted television service
             | [consists in the broadcasting of television programmes for
             | a particular establishment or other defined location, or a
             | particular event, in the United Kingdom, which is
             | licensable by OFCOM]
        
               | arghwhat wrote:
               | > You only need a TV license if you use equipment to
               | receive a live TV programme
               | 
               | Better than Denmark, but the quoted legal snippet is not
               | restricted to BBC content, but instead applies to
               | reception or any kind of television broadcast
               | irrespective of provider or source (foreign satellite TV
               | being an obvious alternative).
               | 
               | It's a different TV tax than that in Denmark, but
               | absolutely a government mandated tax.
               | 
               | (I am unsure how to interpret the _digital_ television
               | broadcast service aspect. I wonder if they mean something
               | wider than DVB, as the previous points do not use
               | "analogue" as classifier. It's need more of the text to
               | figure that out.)
        
             | M2Ys4U wrote:
             | > Same in Denmark, but the collective opinion is that the
             | structure makes the license a TV tax (a yearly fee you must
             | pay by government mandate as a result of owning a type of
             | device irrespective of use) that goes to the media company,
             | thus making it state funded by that tax, regardless of what
             | the company and government claim.
             | 
             | >If it was independent it would have to sell its services
             | on its own, with citizens purchasing the service only if
             | they wished to use it.
             | 
             | It's similar here. the Office of National Statistics has
             | considered the licence fee a tax rather than a service
             | charge for ~15 years. But I don't think that changes the
             | nature of how the BBC is funded.
             | 
             | >In Denmark we're also soon abolishing the license and just
             | making it a normal tax. The structure was pointless and the
             | attempted indirection only angered people, especially as it
             | was expanded to also apply to anyone having internet access
             | over a certain bandwidth.
             | 
             | There has been a live discussion around the continuation of
             | the licence fee here, too. Although that seems to have -
             | mostly - gone away since the BBC proved its value during
             | the pandemic. I think it helps that the requirement is
             | still fairly narrow here.
             | 
             | The indirection is a feature - having the BBC's funding
             | taken out of the regular budgetary process adds to its
             | independence.
             | 
             | Politically it's a distinct action to change the value of
             | the licence fee.
             | 
             | >Furthermore, anything funded by law cannot be truly
             | independent in content either, as it will wish to appease
             | the hand that feeds it.
             | 
             | To be fair that applies to more than funding. As an
             | example, if trade unions piss the government off too much
             | they can get a majority in the legislature to rewrite
             | industrial relations law.
        
               | grkvlt wrote:
               | > the _unique_ nature of how the BBC is funded.
               | 
               | of course, other funding sources are available...
        
         | patrickmcnamara wrote:
         | What is iPhone's Adblock? Is there some default iOS ad-blocker
         | that I don't know about?
        
           | stjohnswarts wrote:
           | Probably talking about the anti-tracking stuff built into
           | safari. It's not exactly an adblocker but if they're tracking
           | you and can't (a typical but not exclusive adver tactic) then
           | it could certainly be dropping their javascript/cookies so
           | it's functionally blocking their ads. Same goes for Firefox
           | which bills itself as antitracking rather than anti-ads
        
         | mywacaday wrote:
         | BBC news used to be so good for a long time but over the last
         | few years it seems to be gravitating more towards advertising
         | and click bait.
        
         | agd wrote:
         | BBC is free to UK viewers but ad-supported for international
         | viewers. This seems fair to me as UK citizens are the ones
         | funding it.
        
           | marshmallow_12 wrote:
           | exactly! we don't want just anyone reading OUR news for
           | free;) (I'm a bit horrible that i'm happy because someone
           | else is having a worse internet experience then me. I'll try
           | and work on myself.)
        
           | statstutor wrote:
           | I have occasionally sent BBC articles to my friends in the
           | UK, only to find the article is blocked in the UK.
           | 
           | I guess it's shockingly difficult to identify advertorials.
        
           | prepend wrote:
           | The marginal cost of UK vs international viewers is less than
           | the ad revenue collected, I expect. Since the ads are the
           | same as CNN or other for profit news agencies it also seems
           | odd that a non-profit, government (in the English language
           | sense, not the UK part of government sense) would have more
           | stringent ad controls than for profit.
           | 
           | Making a government news source profit seeking is a pretty
           | bad plan, I think.
        
             | throwaway3699 wrote:
             | BBC Worldwide has always been profit seeking (because it
             | subsidizes the UK taxpayer so the license fee can be
             | lower). If you're not going to see the Ads, then the
             | website also has a right to deny you access.
        
         | mrighele wrote:
         | I use NoScript, and the page loaded fine: if you don't load any
         | JS there is no code to detect an ad blocker :-). (This doesn't
         | always work of course, but it does for many websites).
         | 
         | Oh, and the website loaded in ~500ms with a 50kb of data
         | downloaded. The "full version" loaded > 5MB of data in 10+
         | seconds.
        
           | stjohnswarts wrote:
           | Sure but lots of pages won't load without javascript so it's
           | double edged. If the javascript won't load it can't download
           | the page via js only mechanisms.
        
         | CaptainSwing wrote:
         | Underfunding and neoliberal management. There's a fair chance
         | the government is hollowing it out to undermine public
         | perception of the institution so they cang et away with doing
         | away with it completely.
        
       | tempodox wrote:
       | The Flying Dutchman?
        
       | hrnnnnnn wrote:
       | The Action Lab had a great video about this effect recently.
       | 
       | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CrgKUFbwNf0
        
         | istjohn wrote:
         | Fascinating. From the video, this same effect can even invert
         | the image so that a ship appears to hover upside down: a ghost
         | ship.
        
           | [deleted]
        
           | stjohnswarts wrote:
           | ghost ship are supposed to hover upside down? I thought they
           | were just supposed to be ghostly and spooky?
        
         | IgorPartola wrote:
         | This is what I came here for. Thank you for the link.
        
         | jcims wrote:
         | I love this guy's channel. He's constantly cranking out new
         | ideas.
        
           | centimeter wrote:
           | I'm always really impressed how he can make a video that
           | _sounds_ like clickbait, but usually go into pretty
           | interesting (and accurate) scientific detail.
        
       | brundolf wrote:
       | Holy geez. I expected a tiny gap; this thing looks like an
       | aircraft. Wild.
       | 
       | I wonder if this effect has contributed to some "ghost ship"
       | legends in the past?
        
       | YeGoblynQueenne wrote:
       | It's strange that the air and the water below the "floating" ship
       | is so crisp and clear. In a superior illusion, there normally is
       | quite a bit of distortion appearing like a wall of fog or galss
       | under the ship (or island etc). It's also strange that this was
       | seen at a very close range when such illusions normally involve
       | objects far away, near the horizon.
       | 
       | Is it possible this image is a hoax, or that it was edited to
       | exaggerate the real effect?
        
         | htkyoholk wrote:
         | Maybe the photograph took 100 pictures from various positions,
         | like tourists holding up the Pisa tower.
        
       | jpcooper wrote:
       | If anyone wants to learn more about paranormal activity in
       | Cornwall, they can check out a relevant episode of Fortean TV, a
       | fantastic documentary series from the 90s:
       | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5aEX3Z3mjCk.
        
         | mprev wrote:
         | But this isn't paranormal.
         | 
         | Fortean TV was, admittedly, fun but silly fun nonetheless.
        
       | depaya wrote:
       | Tangentially related, the fantastic WWII submarine book 'Thunder
       | Down Below' talks about a similar mirage issue being a common
       | occurrence in their submarine warfare. They would see ships that
       | appear to be on the horizon but are actually hundreds of miles
       | away.
       | 
       | [0] https://books.google.com/books?id=Jm-iiEis05AC
        
         | marshmallow_12 wrote:
         | wow! hundreds of miles! that's extraordinary. tell me this is
         | only possible using specialist telescopes etc.
        
       | 51Cards wrote:
       | Next international helium shipment on its way.
        
       | ridaj wrote:
       | I sort of freaked out the first time I saw something like this.
       | 
       | Then Wikipedia held my hand and said everything was OK and this
       | even has a name:
       | 
       | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fata_Morgana_(mirage)
        
         | mordechai9000 wrote:
         | There's a spot where I walk my dog near my house. It follows a
         | power line trail up a hill, and you can turn around and see
         | Denali. For whatever reason, on warm spring days Fata Morgana
         | distortion is fairly common from this spot. I've seen it a few
         | times. At it's most obvious, Denali will appear to be sitting
         | on a pedestal of sheer cliffs, thousands of feet high,
         | surrounded by non existent tabletop mountains and improbable,
         | fantastically shaped spires that would be 10,000 feet ASL if
         | they were real. My cellphone camera doesn't do it justice to
         | though.
        
           | brundolf wrote:
           | Have you uploaded pictures anywhere?
        
             | mordechai9000 wrote:
             | No, I just tried posting to imgur and it didn't go so well.
             | It is a white mountain on the horizon, taken with a cell
             | phone. Honestly the pictures don't convey much. If you zoom
             | in, you can see the distortion, though. I'm sure a decent
             | lens could capture it.
        
         | david422 wrote:
         | This new image needs to go in the wikipedia article. The
         | example images are kinda bleh. But this one really illustrates
         | the concept.
        
           | Biganon wrote:
           | A fata morgana is a special type of superior mirage, where
           | the object is heavily distorted, often to the point of being
           | unrecognizable. The ship in the article kept its shape and is
           | very much recognizable.
        
         | midrus wrote:
         | "...The optical phenomenon occurs because rays of light are
         | bent when they pass through air layers of different
         | temperatures in a steep thermal inversion where an atmospheric
         | duct has formed..."
         | 
         | To me that's the most Men In Black explanation I've ever heard.
         | 
         | Definitely confirms this is aliens.
        
           | btilly wrote:
           | Here is a lay explanation.
           | 
           | Light travels at different speeds in different substances.
           | But it always takes a path that is locally fastest - meaning
           | that any nearby path would be slower. (This is called the
           | Fermat principle.)
           | 
           | You can see this principle at work when you put a stick into
           | water. Because light travels more slowly in water, the light
           | first heads mostly straight up, then bends when it hits the
           | air. The result is that light does not travel a straight path
           | to your eye. Which means that the part of the stick in the
           | water looks like it is where the light comes out of the
           | water, rather than where the stick is. As a result you can
           | see the stick visibly bend.
           | 
           | Now what is happening here is that you have a layer of warm
           | air over cold air. Light travels faster in warm air. (That is
           | because as air warms it expands, making it less dense. Less
           | dense means that there is less getting in the way of the
           | light and it can move faster.) Therefore that fastest path is
           | for the light to go up into the warm air, go along the warm
           | air, and then dive back down to your eyes.
           | 
           | In many places you can see the reverse of this on hot days
           | where hot ground makes for a hot air layer next to the
           | ground. When the conditions are right the light from the sky
           | can reach your eyes by skimming along the ground, and you get
           | blue patches in the ground. In a desert this can look like
           | water in the distance.
        
           | Gupie wrote:
           | Or proof the earth is flat.
        
             | saalweachter wrote:
             | Nah, they're just sailing to Valinor.
        
           | dbetteridge wrote:
           | Basically the layers of air above the water have slight
           | variations (temperature, humidity, pressure) between them in
           | such a way that they each have a small change in refractive
           | index that over a distance bends light upwards.
           | 
           | Then you have another group of layers of air further up in
           | the 'marine boundary layer' that bends the light back towards
           | the waters surface.
           | 
           | This is called an 'atmospheric duct' and is somewhat similar
           | in the effect to a fibre optic cable.
           | 
           | Poor mans source: I wrote my thesis 5+ years ago on
           | refractive effects in the maritime boundary layer [1]
           | 
           | [1] https://ceed.wa.edu.au/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/DSTO-
           | Refra...
        
             | djrogers wrote:
             | Agent D, you're making it worse...
        
           | moron4hire wrote:
           | You can confirm it at home
           | 
           | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=968gVUAY9Mg
        
         | mingusrude wrote:
         | I've seen it once and I haven't seen an explanation until now.
         | My wife and I were kayaking on a lake in Northern Sweden and
         | far far away we see a boat that is just moving slowly, lifted
         | up in the air. It was completely calm and we could not hear it
         | (very far away), it was ghostly.
        
       | jvm_ wrote:
       | I've heard of this happening across Lake Erie, people in Canada
       | said they could see the color of the traffic lights all the way
       | across the lake in Erie PA.
        
       | sandworm101 wrote:
       | Give it the proper name. This where the "flying" part of the
       | Flying Dutchman comes from.
        
       | WarOnPrivacy wrote:
       | Two others
       | 
       | https://worldtruth.tv/footage-of-ship-flying-above-the-ocean...
       | 
       | https://digg.com/2018/floating-ships-illusion-fata-morgana
        
       | mc32 wrote:
       | Isn't this just Fata Morgana?
        
         | Zenst wrote:
         | Yes - it is exactly that, when the ocean is cooler than the
         | above air is when this can happen.
         | 
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fata_Morgana_(mirage)
        
       | boringg wrote:
       | I love stuff like this - reminds you that Science Rules
       | Everything Around Me and will play tricks on me.
        
       | roelschroeven wrote:
       | Does anyone else have intermittent problems resolving BBC
       | domains, or is it just me?
       | 
       | Sometimes I can't resolve www.bbc.co.uk, sometimes it works. Same
       | for www.bbc.com. I don't have that problem with any other domain
       | name I have encountered. The intermittency makes it very hard to
       | troubleshoot.
        
         | damau wrote:
         | This has happened to me. Do you use a VPN at all?. I think by
         | connecting from different perceived places between your IP
         | location and the cookie (from a previous visit at a previous IP
         | location) can confuse the redirect.
        
       | sfjailbird wrote:
       | Maybe this kind of thing is the origin of the 'Flying Dutchman'
       | legend.
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | guerrilla wrote:
       | This actually happens pretty frequently where I live, except what
       | we see is trees on a far off island floating. I've never seen a
       | ship float, but now I'll be looking for it.
        
       | broooder wrote:
       | Who is walker?
        
         | tremon wrote:
         | Cornish ranger.
        
       | djmips wrote:
       | It occurred to me that maybe Castle In The Sky (Ghibli) might
       | have some origin (possibly) from such illusions. There was a
       | Chinese news report of a city in the sky illusion. Here's the
       | video, quite impressive.
       | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UoP1sh1WXm8
        
         | slacktide wrote:
         | Um, "Castle in the Sky" had it's origin in "Gulliver's
         | Travels", published in 1726. Part III, a Voyage to Laputa (et
         | al.).
         | 
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulliver%27s_Travels#Part_III:...
        
           | klingon79 wrote:
           | And "Castles in the Sky" was about the development of radar
           | in England.
        
         | qqii wrote:
         | The video, although reported to be from the same phenomenon is
         | actually a fake: https://youtu.be/Xmrn2IuSW-Q
        
       | htkyoholk wrote:
       | Nice try by the government to cover up testing of anti-gravity
       | drive recovered from UFO.
        
         | klingon79 wrote:
         | While it's the less plausible explanation, I think this theory
         | should be explored further.
         | 
         | With a photo like this, what can we do to assist in proving or
         | disproving the theory that it's indeed flying?
         | 
         | Also, is the headline incorrect if it indicates that it's
         | flying when it's not, if it appears to be?
        
         | guram11 wrote:
         | As always never believe anything until it is officially denied
        
         | dang wrote:
         | Could you please stop creating accounts for every few comments
         | you post? We ban accounts that do that. This is in the site
         | guidelines: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html.
         | 
         | You needn't use your real name, of course, but for HN to be a
         | community, users need some identity for other users to relate
         | to. Otherwise we may as well have no usernames and no
         | community, and that would be a different kind of forum.
         | https://hn.algolia.com/?query=community%20identity%20by:dang...
        
       | it wrote:
       | I prefer to think it's antigravity.
       | 
       | If it's just light bending then why don't we also see the
       | surrounding water elevated in the supposed mirage?
        
       | ardit33 wrote:
       | This is not a rare illusion. When I used to be a kid, we saw this
       | illusion all the time When we went to the beach in Albania (Port
       | of Durres)
       | 
       | The Adriatic see can be very calm sometimes, and the blue waters
       | do match the same color/blue hue of the sky.
        
       | andbberger wrote:
       | Harmonielehre.
        
       | dmix wrote:
       | This picture will help explain the "superior mirage":
       | 
       | https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/45/Su...
       | 
       | Note in the OP's original link the bottom half is cut off
       | entirely.
       | 
       | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mirage?oldformat=true#Superior...
        
         | breck wrote:
         | Oh wow! Thanks for sharing. I thought the original looked super
         | weird, but seeing your "distorted" version instantly brought
         | back flashbacks to when I saw this in South Dennis, MA, a few
         | years ago. I took photos and couldn't figure out what the heck
         | was out there, but it was this. Thanks!
        
       | helge9210 wrote:
       | I've seen illusion like this off Herzelia, Israel coast couple of
       | years ago. I think I even made couple of pictures.
        
       | marshmallow_12 wrote:
       | this kind of steals the thunder from the flying pirates ship in
       | Peter Pan. I'll have to reconsider my childhood.
        
       | lebuffon wrote:
       | Very nice picture, but how does this advance the "flat earth
       | theory"?
       | 
       | :)
        
         | kerblang wrote:
         | I know you're joking, but this is highly useful in this regard,
         | because flat-earthers often swear up & down that they can see
         | beyond the "ostensible" horizon limit without understanding
         | that refraction effect. This one is kind of unique but it
         | demonstrates refraction nicely.
         | 
         | Really, I think we're usually so busy being dismissive and
         | condescending towards flat-earthers, it's easy to forget that
         | proving the spherical earth is kind of a tricky matter without
         | putting people in spaceships (but if I could afford it, I'd
         | happily buy a few tickets for them...)
        
       | chenning wrote:
       | That settles it. We're living in a simulation.
        
       | xyzzyz wrote:
       | If you want to see ship hovering for real, check out America Cup
       | 75 yacht racing. This year the new rules for yacht design made it
       | so that the yachts literally are flying over the water.
       | 
       | https://youtu.be/r6HW52g1JwM
        
       | qqii wrote:
       | As a tangent there is this excellent Captain Disillusion video
       | debunking the floating city which was attributed to the same
       | phenomenon as seen here: https://youtu.be/Xmrn2IuSW-Q
        
       | cs702 wrote:
       | I've seen this optical illusion in person, with large container
       | ships, off the US Mid-Atlantic coast, and it's really cool.
       | 
       | The photo in this article is fantastic. It shows an extreme
       | example of the illusion. The ship appears to be, not just
       | hovering over the water, but actually suspended in mid-air.
       | 
       | In my view, it's worth clicking on the link just to see the
       | photo.
        
         | globular-toast wrote:
         | Something just occurred to me. Is this actually an optical
         | illusion? My idea of an optical illusion is one where your
         | brain perceives something that is different from reality.
         | Indeed, when I look it up I see examples of that (e.g.
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Optical_illusion) But in this
         | case your brain isn't doing anything wrong, the light reaching
         | your eyes is what's "wrong" and your brain is correctly
         | interpreting what your eyes see (as shown by the photograph).
        
           | unloco wrote:
           | This is a false horizon.
           | 
           | Your eyes are seeing the reflection of the sky on the distant
           | water or fog, making it appear the horizon is closer than it
           | really is.
           | 
           | So it is an optical illusion, as your brain is what is
           | perceiving a horizon where it is not.
        
             | russianbandit wrote:
             | It's not just one person's brain, right? Everyone who was
             | there would see the same thing. Surely, that means our
             | brains are pretty much wired the same. But I wonder if some
             | people would see the "correct" thing.
             | 
             | What's also mind blowing is that the camera captures the
             | same thing your brain is interpreting!
        
               | checker wrote:
               | This is proven to be a physical illusion because the
               | light sensor (camera) is capturing the same image as the
               | two light sensors in your head (eyes). So no person would
               | see the "correct" thing because the light in the scene is
               | actually rendering this image with minimal interpretive
               | transformations from the mind (this is in contrast to
               | cognitive illusions). Unless there is a person with some
               | extreme sensitivity to the polarization or color of the
               | reflected light but that is probably unlikely.
        
               | danaliv wrote:
               | I don't have the reference handy but I recall reading
               | years ago that certain classic optical illusions simply
               | don't work on people who weren't raised in societies with
               | rectangular housing.
        
           | LegitShady wrote:
           | I think this is a very fundamental optical illusion with a
           | focus on optical, where air temperature bends light so makes
           | you perceive something different from what it actually is.
           | 
           | It's much more related to optics than direct perception. Your
           | brain is drawing the correct image its received, the light
           | has just been bent so that it doesn't form an accurate
           | representation of what you're trying to see.
        
           | e_proxus wrote:
           | Wikipedia uses the term optical phenomenon.
        
           | red_trumpet wrote:
           | The Wikipedia article contains a helpful table [1], which
           | classifies optical illusions. One kind are "physical"
           | illusions, like rainbows or distortions (think stick in
           | water). I think the hovering ship is of that kind. Other
           | kinds include "physiological" or "cognitive", which are
           | tricking your brain.
           | 
           | [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Optical_illusion#/media/Fil
           | e:G...
        
           | thedanbob wrote:
           | I think you're right, this is a mirage. The article uses both
           | terms interchangeably.
        
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