[HN Gopher] Tintern 'secret' medieval tunnel system found by acc...
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       Tintern 'secret' medieval tunnel system found by accident
        
       Author : goodcanadian
       Score  : 97 points
       Date   : 2021-03-04 19:20 UTC (3 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.bbc.co.uk)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.bbc.co.uk)
        
       | Uhhrrr wrote:
       | The article doesn't say how they know it's medieval.
        
       | BerislavLopac wrote:
       | I love Tintern Abbey [0]... When you're peacefully driving down
       | the Wye Valley (say, after visiting Puzzlewood [1]), enjoying the
       | green scenery and cosy little villages along the river, the last
       | thing you expect are the colossal ruins of a medieval church...
       | <3
       | 
       | [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tintern_Abbey
       | 
       | [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puzzlewood
        
         | bigfudge wrote:
         | Me too. It's on one of my favourite bike rides too... the road
         | up to Monmouth is a great day out from Bristol.
        
           | grumblepeet wrote:
           | Agreed. I used to drop my son up to Hereford from Bristol and
           | often took this scenic route. It's an absolutely beautiful
           | road with great scenery. When you come around the corner and
           | get hit by the sight and sheer size of the ruined church
           | especially when there's a bit of mist with the sun streaming
           | through it it's almost a mystical experience.
           | 
           | Favourite place name near here? Nempnett Thrubwell. Or Chew
           | Magna. Great names.
        
       | lostlogin wrote:
       | Wow at that popover to prevent reading with an adblocker
       | installed.
       | 
       | You can load the page then go to airplane mode.
        
         | retrac98 wrote:
         | Interestingly the site is completely ad free within the UK as
         | it's funded by the public.
        
           | kwhitefoot wrote:
           | Ad-free for me too in Norway. Probably due to UBlock Origin
           | rather than the location though.
        
             | lostlogin wrote:
             | It says adblocker detected, then tells you how to
             | reconfigure your blocker to allow their adverts. Ublock
             | Origin instructions are included.
        
               | dmix wrote:
               | ublock seems to bypass that as well... as others have
               | noted.
        
         | shiftpgdn wrote:
         | Ublock origin seems to block it successfully.
        
       | olivermarks wrote:
       | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erdstall
       | 
       | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fogou
       | 
       | Pretty fascinating the sheer number of different types of
       | mediaeval tunnels across Europe and their presumed uses
        
       | dmix wrote:
       | You have to love the s/weird/unusual [1] names of places in the
       | UK (and it looks like a beautiful area from the small picture):
       | 
       | > Tintern, in the Wye Valley, Monmouthshire
       | 
       | There's also plenty of "upon the"s and "x-in-y" (ie: Henly-in-
       | Arden). Not just the England but seems just as common in
       | Scotland, or even more common.
       | 
       | I can imagine the early computer systems of the postal
       | organization having to deal with these quirks.
       | 
       | [1] apparently "weird" is being taken as bad or something. I like
       | weird.
        
         | samizdis wrote:
         | Tintern is a beautiful place, and Tintern Abbey is particularly
         | so - plus it has an amazingly rich history.
         | 
         | See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tintern_Abbey
         | 
         | Edited to add - Nice set of photos at the bottom of this page:
         | 
         | https://medievalheritage.eu/en/main-page/heritage/wales/tint...
        
           | hcrisp wrote:
           | A friend and I visited Wales during college and ran across
           | Tintern Abbey quite by accident. We rented a car in London,
           | and embarked on a drive from there to Oxford. We found a
           | place to stay somewhere between Oxford and Tintern (not sure
           | exactly where). Early the next day we got back on the road,
           | and suddenly we beheld emerging out of the gloomy mist a
           | majestic but decrepit building obviously of centuries-old
           | origin. We inquired and learned its name: Tintern Abbey. The
           | pictures at the bottom of the medievalheritage.eu link are
           | what I remember seeing.
        
         | adonovan wrote:
         | Treat yourself to this map, you've earned it:
         | https://marvellousmaps.com/stgs-great-british-place-names-ma...
        
         | kungito wrote:
         | I don't understand why this is a problem. It's a simple multi
         | tier naming scheme. Don't Americans have Springfields
         | everywhere?
        
           | dmix wrote:
           | No one said it was a problem, yikes. I regret bringing this
           | up.
        
         | robin_reala wrote:
         | What's weird about that?
        
           | dmix wrote:
           | Well for one thing it didn't seem to transfer over to North
           | America when the Brits (and French, etc) were naming towns
           | and cities here in Canada, and the US...where I grew up. It's
           | like a legacy thing.
           | 
           | It seems they were more likely to stick to singular words
           | here in NA when naming regions. So it's interesting to me? Is
           | that taboo or something?
        
             | BerislavLopac wrote:
             | I don't see how "King's Rocks" (Tintern) is more weird
             | than, say, "Gathering Place By The Water" (Milwaukee)...
        
               | dmix wrote:
               | I think you guys are taking "weird" a bit too literally,
               | I don't mean it in a negative way.
               | 
               | If it was common here in Canada then I wouldn't find it
               | 'weird' or unusual would I? And I can assure you it's not
               | very common. Even if there are exceptions.
               | 
               | Regardless that was not what the Brits (or whichever Euro
               | empire) chose to eventually name Milwaukee, they chose
               | Milwaukee. So that's a poor counterpoint...
        
               | BerislavLopac wrote:
               | I chose that example precisely because both of them are
               | in the language of the former natives, now barely spoken
               | in the area, and not in the language of the empire that
               | conquered it. ;)
        
             | DanBC wrote:
             | The place is called Tintern.
             | 
             | It's being described as "in the Wye Valley", but that's not
             | part of the name.
        
             | mbg721 wrote:
             | In the US, specifying the state seems to serve the same
             | purpose of avoiding confusion. "Springfield, MA" and
             | "Springfield, IL", as opposed to "Springfield-upon-
             | Connecticut" and "Springfield-on-the-Lake".
        
               | 11thEarlOfMar wrote:
               | Carmel-by-the-Sea
        
         | kraftman wrote:
         | If you're interested, Wye comes from the name of the river,
         | which means either to wander, or crooked hills. Either seem
         | relevant given the strange way that the river wye goes from
         | wide, slow meandering bends across floodplains into rapids
         | through steep crooked valleys (as opposed to most rivers that
         | start in mountains and end in floodplains.)
         | 
         | Monmouth is at the mouth of the river Monnow, a tributary of
         | the Wye.
        
           | gorgoiler wrote:
           | Keep unpacking meanings please, this is really interesting.
           | 
           | Where do Monnow and Tintern come from?
        
             | mpclark wrote:
             | Oh dear. I lived three years in Tintern and five in
             | Monmouth and can't answer either of those!
        
           | Lammy wrote:
           | Also a common term for a particular type of railway junction
           | that resembles the river:
           | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wye_(rail)
        
         | gumby wrote:
         | > There's also plenty of "upon the"s and "x-in-y" (ie: Henly-
         | in-Arden).
         | 
         | These are common in many languages.
         | 
         | Even in England: Weston-super-Mare is just latin for "Weston by
         | (literally "over") the sea".
         | 
         | And constructs like "Stratford-upon-Avon" (to disambiguate from
         | other Stratfords) are pretty common in most places; consider "
         | _Frankfurt am Main_ " and " _Frankfurt an der Oder_ " all of
         | which specify that their town is the one on _this_ specific
         | river.
         | 
         | Also a lot of those European place names (ignoring the
         | prepositional affixes) are themselves compounds of other nice
         | properties.
         | 
         | I don't know why this construct is uncommon in the USA.
        
           | Taniwha wrote:
           | I think it's universal Shanghai translates to "upon the sea"
        
           | bluGill wrote:
           | > I don't know why this construct is uncommon in the USA.
           | 
           | In the US we use a comma. Buffalo, NY - as opposed to Buffalo
           | in any other state. (MN, TX, and WI each have a city of
           | buffalo - perhaps more, that is where I stopped searching).
           | States in the US tend to be very careful about not allowing
           | duplication of names so this is enough for the most part.
        
             | macintux wrote:
             | > States in the US tend to be very careful about not
             | allowing duplication of names so this is enough for the
             | most part.
             | 
             | True, although if you include unincorporated towns, there
             | are a lot of naming conflicts, at least in my home state of
             | Indiana.
             | 
             | Marion, for example, is the name of a small city an hour
             | from Marion County, the central county that encompasses
             | Indianapolis, and also the name of a small unincorporated
             | community an hour in a different direction.
             | 
             | Plus Marian University is in Marion County, not Marion the
             | city, although unlike Harvard, MA vs Harvard University, I
             | doubt that causes much confusion.
        
           | 1986 wrote:
           | New York has quite a few on-river names: Annandale-,
           | Castleton-, Croton-, Hastings-, and Grand View-on-Hudson -
           | maybe a legacy of the era in which the state was colonized.
        
             | smogcutter wrote:
             | Those are the stations when they put you on the Wolverine
             | up to Annandale. Ain't never going back, though.
        
           | dfxm12 wrote:
           | There's Manchester-by-the-Sea, MA. There's also a lot of
           | "New" versions of older European locations as a way to
           | distinguish them from other similarly named places when there
           | aren't any rivers nearby, I guess, like New Jersey. Don't
           | forget, a lot of places in the US were also already named
           | before European settlers arrived.
           | 
           | It might also simply not be needed as a matter of
           | practicality. There are many Springfields, but probably not
           | very many per state (although I know New Jersey has two) and
           | certainly a max of one per zipcode. Sure Springfield, MA
           | 12345 isn't as whimsical as Springfield-upon-the-Connecticut
           | (or whatever) in terms of distinguishing it from Springfield,
           | NJ 08765, but it gets the job done.
        
         | sonofhans wrote:
         | In England years ago we would visit Weston-under-Lizard (the
         | town of Weston in the shadow of the hill Lizard --
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weston-under-Lizard). That's my
         | favorite name of this type.
        
           | mprev wrote:
           | Never thought I'd see my part of the world on here; used to
           | drive through Weston under Lizard every day.
           | 
           | Some good place names in Shropshire, too, but Durham has my
           | favourite with No Place and Pity Me.
        
             | nickt wrote:
             | Don't forget Quaking Houses and Unthank!
        
         | tomxor wrote:
         | It also has some great rock climbing along the same part of the
         | wye, a mere ~100 meters at most if you go to wintours leap but
         | you get some of the most beautiful views. My favorite spot for
         | local summer trad climbing.
        
         | dcminter wrote:
         | You'd probably enjoy "St Andrew by the Wardrobe" then:
         | 
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St_Andrew-by-the-Wardrobe
        
       | gorgoiler wrote:
       | Mind boggling that something can stay hidden for so long in a
       | part of the world that is so well trodden.
        
       | moron4hire wrote:
       | Did anyone else read the subject line and think of a particular
       | blonde journalist, his puppy, and his alcoholic, sea-faring
       | friend?
        
         | dhosek wrote:
         | I was an English major in college. I immediately thought of
         | Wordsworth's "Lines on Tintern Abbey."
         | 
         | https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/45527/lines-composed-...
        
         | jareklupinski wrote:
         | maybe if it was discovered by a "Snerwy" :P
        
           | moron4hire wrote:
           | I collect TinTin commics in different languages, out of this
           | fantasy that attempting to read them is going to teach me
           | those languages (I mean, it can't hurt, right?). And I was
           | completely blown away that Snowy has a different name in most
           | of the different versions (most of the time, it's some
           | variation of the translation of "chalky"), but Cpt Haddock is
           | always "Haddock".
        
             | hodgesrm wrote:
             | Haddock's curses are also great. Mille sabords! That's
             | "blistering barnacles" to you anglophones. It actually
             | means "a thousand portholes" which would not sound very
             | impressive coming from somebody other than Captain Haddock.
        
         | foobarian wrote:
         | I did misunderstand the title but I thought of Trove[1]
         | primitive collections instead.
         | 
         | [1]
         | http://trove4j.sourceforge.net/javadocs/gnu/trove/map/TIntIn...
        
       | badJack wrote:
       | isn't this the premise of reign of fire?
        
       | astrea wrote:
       | Seems like the technicians' work is already done for them. What a
       | win!
        
       | Sophistifunk wrote:
       | That poor property "owner", whatever work they needed done will
       | be delayed by the state for years now.
        
       | DavidAdams wrote:
       | It's funny that this showed up at HN, but I'm personally
       | interested because one of my ancestors, Aoife MacMurrough, was
       | buried at Tintern Abbey. Her daughter and son-in-law, Isabel de
       | Clare and William Marshal, were big time patrons of the abbey. If
       | you're ever in Eastern Wales, the ruins are a pretty spot to
       | visit.
        
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       (page generated 2021-03-04 23:00 UTC)