[HN Gopher] Zadie Smith on the Psychology of the Two Types of Wr...
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       Zadie Smith on the Psychology of the Two Types of Writers (2014)
        
       Author : samclemens
       Score  : 31 points
       Date   : 2021-03-02 18:58 UTC (1 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.brainpickings.org)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.brainpickings.org)
        
       | ohazi wrote:
       | Came across this the other day: https://youtu.be/9dqd-_Y1_80
       | 
       | "architects vs. gardners"
       | 
       | Applies to more than just writing.
        
         | NoOneNew wrote:
         | I'm pretty sure every craft has some form of this same
         | discussion. It's a really weird thing spectators of any craft
         | get hung up.
         | 
         | Where she gets micro managing and macro planner is beyond me.
         | Pantser and plotter are the terms most people have been using
         | for 20 some odd years. Plus, pretty much every writer is a
         | gradient between the two. I've never read or heard anyone
         | beyond the fanfic/wattpad crowd think it's a black and white,
         | one or the other writer type. This whole article sounds more
         | like someone met a published author for the first time and is
         | trying to talk about "secret knowledge". I think Brandon
         | Sanderson does the sharpest, fastest discussion between the two
         | methods, pros and cons, then moves on because in the end "it
         | doesn't matter which you are".
         | 
         | Adding "the psychology of.." is super damn pretentious as well
         | given theres not a lick of data collection, just personal
         | anecdotal meditation on the topic.
        
           | loofatoofa wrote:
           | Ya it's just bait. Understanding Complex processes isn't just
           | a divide and conquer exercise, but divide and conquer is
           | simpler and a portion of what it takes to actually learn
           | something so it sells like hotcakes.
        
             | setr wrote:
             | It also gives you an easy out when you're decent at one
             | side but not the other... it was never in my nature, so
             | there's no way to improve it, or reason to try.
             | 
             | The same kind of thing that happens with left brain vs
             | right brain, for arts vs sciences
        
       | bryanrasmussen wrote:
       | Ursula K. LeGuin in her book of essays The Languages of The Night
       | had an anecdote about some editor asking her for to do a big
       | article on how she planned everything out and did all her maps
       | and backgrounds of characters before she started writing
       | Earthsea, and (obviously I paraphrase this as I do not have a
       | copy of the book available at this time) she replied "Dear
       | Editor, this is not how I do it"
        
       | martindbp wrote:
       | Is there someplace I can see which type a certain author is?
       | Although knowing that an author is a micro planner (or "by the
       | seat of their pants" writer) may ruin some perfectly good books
       | for me.
        
       | JeremyReimer wrote:
       | These two types are often called "Plotters" and "Pantsers", with
       | the idea that the Pantser writes by the "seat of their pants".
       | 
       | One thing that doesn't get talked about much is the concept of a
       | third type of writer, the hybrid writer. They will figure out
       | their book's theme, title, three or five act structure,
       | characters, major plot points, and the ending all ahead of time.
       | But this is just a skeleton, an outline. Like a fractal, it gets
       | fleshed out at the time of writing. Writing proceeds linearly
       | from beginning to end, much like the Pantser. When the novel is
       | finished, there are still editing tasks and possible changes to
       | be done.
       | 
       | I've written all five of my novels using a hybrid approach, and I
       | wouldn't want to change. Every author is different.
        
       | sharkweek wrote:
       | As someone who writes novels for fun (with almost zero intention
       | of publishing, self or traditional), I've tried so many different
       | techniques when it comes to composing a story.
       | 
       | The only thing for me that is consistently true is needing to
       | know where the story starts and where the story ends. Once I have
       | those two things in mind, everything else comes by actually
       | writing the journey.
       | 
       | I have never been able to successfully outline a complete MS and
       | stick to anything even close. Characters written in real-time do
       | weird things and take wild turns. For me personally it's so
       | important to be flexible with that as to allow my mind space to
       | play.
       | 
       | And maybe I'm weird, but in contrast to Smith's suggestion that
       | once she finishes her draft she's done, I LOVE revising the first
       | (and second, and third) draft of manuscripts. For me, having a
       | messy house to rebuild is so much more fun than micromanaging the
       | story while composing.
       | 
       | Of course I'm also never going to be the same quality of writer
       | as Zadie Smith, so there's that.
        
         | jeffwass wrote:
         | I really like your comment, may I ask why you have no intention
         | of publishing your own works?
         | 
         | I'm also in the process of writing a few different works (I
         | have one kids sci-fi novel draft finished, and a couple others
         | in various state of progress).
         | 
         | One thing that may help boost your confidence would be joining
         | a writers group. Eg, once a quarter you submit 25k words to the
         | group, and critique each other's works.
         | 
         | I've learned alot doing this, in terms of variety of feedback
         | from different styles of writer. But equally important was
         | seeing other writers' works-in-progress, which was very eye
         | opening, as the first few drafts are always a pale comparison
         | to the finished product.
         | 
         | BTW, your comment that characters take wild turns in ways you
         | did not expect is one of the great joys in writing! I am more
         | of a pantser than plotter myself, and even if I have a vague
         | idea of what will happen in a scene, it's easy for the
         | characters themselves to take control, and very exciting when
         | that happens!
        
           | sharkweek wrote:
           | Good question - for now, I think it's just a way to get
           | stories out of my head. If I ever write something marketable,
           | perhaps my tone will change =)
           | 
           | Writers groups are a good idea though, I will have to look
           | for one near me.
           | 
           | I do a lot of beta reading and enjoy it, so could definitely
           | see myself liking being in a writing group.
        
       | nicholast wrote:
       | I believe that J.K. Rowling would fall under the macro planner
       | category, I saw a picture once of an outline she had prepared for
       | the entire series on a single sheet of notebook paper, before
       | starting her first book.
        
         | prewett wrote:
         | A single sheet of paper for a seven book series doesn't sound
         | too macro, especially given how Smith describes obsessing over
         | details. Compare with Straczinski, who had a whole binder of
         | note cards outlining the 5-year story arc of Babylon 5.
         | Granted, TV show, not novel, but it felt more novel-like.
         | 
         | Rowling sounds more pantsy, like saying "I'm going to drive
         | from SF to NYC, and I'm going to stop at my parents' in
         | Denver", then when the day arrives, you sit in the car, pull up
         | Apple Maps, and say, "hmm, I think I want to go the Las Vegas
         | to Denver route rather than Salt Lake City, because it's
         | winter", and then start driving and find a hotel when you're
         | tired. Snow in Utah? Hmm, should I risk it or stop early? As
         | opposed to planning it all out two weeks before, "Day 1: SF to
         | LV, stay at Bellagio; Day 2: LV to Canyonlands NP, camp
         | overnight; Day 3: Go hiking, weather permitting; Day 4:
         | Canyonlands to Denver; ..."
        
           | jeffwass wrote:
           | I think it was here on HN many years ago someone mentioned
           | they "plan the mountains, pants the valleys", which I think
           | beautifully encapsulates the process (at least very similar
           | to how I do it).
           | 
           | I'm primarly a pantser, but I have some basic skeleton
           | framework of a plot. And I usually don't have any idea how A
           | will connect to B and then to C until I'm in the moment
           | writing.
        
         | rpdillon wrote:
         | Brandon Sanderson takes this approach really far. His status
         | reports on the multiple series he's writing and the release
         | timeline for each is an ongoing source of inspiration for me.
         | 
         | Here's his 2020-in-review post:
         | https://www.brandonsanderson.com/state-of-the-sanderson-2020...
        
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       (page generated 2021-03-03 23:02 UTC)