[HN Gopher] Zadie Smith on the Psychology of the Two Types of Wr...
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Zadie Smith on the Psychology of the Two Types of Writers (2014)
Author : samclemens
Score : 31 points
Date : 2021-03-02 18:58 UTC (1 days ago)
(HTM) web link (www.brainpickings.org)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.brainpickings.org)
| ohazi wrote:
| Came across this the other day: https://youtu.be/9dqd-_Y1_80
|
| "architects vs. gardners"
|
| Applies to more than just writing.
| NoOneNew wrote:
| I'm pretty sure every craft has some form of this same
| discussion. It's a really weird thing spectators of any craft
| get hung up.
|
| Where she gets micro managing and macro planner is beyond me.
| Pantser and plotter are the terms most people have been using
| for 20 some odd years. Plus, pretty much every writer is a
| gradient between the two. I've never read or heard anyone
| beyond the fanfic/wattpad crowd think it's a black and white,
| one or the other writer type. This whole article sounds more
| like someone met a published author for the first time and is
| trying to talk about "secret knowledge". I think Brandon
| Sanderson does the sharpest, fastest discussion between the two
| methods, pros and cons, then moves on because in the end "it
| doesn't matter which you are".
|
| Adding "the psychology of.." is super damn pretentious as well
| given theres not a lick of data collection, just personal
| anecdotal meditation on the topic.
| loofatoofa wrote:
| Ya it's just bait. Understanding Complex processes isn't just
| a divide and conquer exercise, but divide and conquer is
| simpler and a portion of what it takes to actually learn
| something so it sells like hotcakes.
| setr wrote:
| It also gives you an easy out when you're decent at one
| side but not the other... it was never in my nature, so
| there's no way to improve it, or reason to try.
|
| The same kind of thing that happens with left brain vs
| right brain, for arts vs sciences
| bryanrasmussen wrote:
| Ursula K. LeGuin in her book of essays The Languages of The Night
| had an anecdote about some editor asking her for to do a big
| article on how she planned everything out and did all her maps
| and backgrounds of characters before she started writing
| Earthsea, and (obviously I paraphrase this as I do not have a
| copy of the book available at this time) she replied "Dear
| Editor, this is not how I do it"
| martindbp wrote:
| Is there someplace I can see which type a certain author is?
| Although knowing that an author is a micro planner (or "by the
| seat of their pants" writer) may ruin some perfectly good books
| for me.
| JeremyReimer wrote:
| These two types are often called "Plotters" and "Pantsers", with
| the idea that the Pantser writes by the "seat of their pants".
|
| One thing that doesn't get talked about much is the concept of a
| third type of writer, the hybrid writer. They will figure out
| their book's theme, title, three or five act structure,
| characters, major plot points, and the ending all ahead of time.
| But this is just a skeleton, an outline. Like a fractal, it gets
| fleshed out at the time of writing. Writing proceeds linearly
| from beginning to end, much like the Pantser. When the novel is
| finished, there are still editing tasks and possible changes to
| be done.
|
| I've written all five of my novels using a hybrid approach, and I
| wouldn't want to change. Every author is different.
| sharkweek wrote:
| As someone who writes novels for fun (with almost zero intention
| of publishing, self or traditional), I've tried so many different
| techniques when it comes to composing a story.
|
| The only thing for me that is consistently true is needing to
| know where the story starts and where the story ends. Once I have
| those two things in mind, everything else comes by actually
| writing the journey.
|
| I have never been able to successfully outline a complete MS and
| stick to anything even close. Characters written in real-time do
| weird things and take wild turns. For me personally it's so
| important to be flexible with that as to allow my mind space to
| play.
|
| And maybe I'm weird, but in contrast to Smith's suggestion that
| once she finishes her draft she's done, I LOVE revising the first
| (and second, and third) draft of manuscripts. For me, having a
| messy house to rebuild is so much more fun than micromanaging the
| story while composing.
|
| Of course I'm also never going to be the same quality of writer
| as Zadie Smith, so there's that.
| jeffwass wrote:
| I really like your comment, may I ask why you have no intention
| of publishing your own works?
|
| I'm also in the process of writing a few different works (I
| have one kids sci-fi novel draft finished, and a couple others
| in various state of progress).
|
| One thing that may help boost your confidence would be joining
| a writers group. Eg, once a quarter you submit 25k words to the
| group, and critique each other's works.
|
| I've learned alot doing this, in terms of variety of feedback
| from different styles of writer. But equally important was
| seeing other writers' works-in-progress, which was very eye
| opening, as the first few drafts are always a pale comparison
| to the finished product.
|
| BTW, your comment that characters take wild turns in ways you
| did not expect is one of the great joys in writing! I am more
| of a pantser than plotter myself, and even if I have a vague
| idea of what will happen in a scene, it's easy for the
| characters themselves to take control, and very exciting when
| that happens!
| sharkweek wrote:
| Good question - for now, I think it's just a way to get
| stories out of my head. If I ever write something marketable,
| perhaps my tone will change =)
|
| Writers groups are a good idea though, I will have to look
| for one near me.
|
| I do a lot of beta reading and enjoy it, so could definitely
| see myself liking being in a writing group.
| nicholast wrote:
| I believe that J.K. Rowling would fall under the macro planner
| category, I saw a picture once of an outline she had prepared for
| the entire series on a single sheet of notebook paper, before
| starting her first book.
| prewett wrote:
| A single sheet of paper for a seven book series doesn't sound
| too macro, especially given how Smith describes obsessing over
| details. Compare with Straczinski, who had a whole binder of
| note cards outlining the 5-year story arc of Babylon 5.
| Granted, TV show, not novel, but it felt more novel-like.
|
| Rowling sounds more pantsy, like saying "I'm going to drive
| from SF to NYC, and I'm going to stop at my parents' in
| Denver", then when the day arrives, you sit in the car, pull up
| Apple Maps, and say, "hmm, I think I want to go the Las Vegas
| to Denver route rather than Salt Lake City, because it's
| winter", and then start driving and find a hotel when you're
| tired. Snow in Utah? Hmm, should I risk it or stop early? As
| opposed to planning it all out two weeks before, "Day 1: SF to
| LV, stay at Bellagio; Day 2: LV to Canyonlands NP, camp
| overnight; Day 3: Go hiking, weather permitting; Day 4:
| Canyonlands to Denver; ..."
| jeffwass wrote:
| I think it was here on HN many years ago someone mentioned
| they "plan the mountains, pants the valleys", which I think
| beautifully encapsulates the process (at least very similar
| to how I do it).
|
| I'm primarly a pantser, but I have some basic skeleton
| framework of a plot. And I usually don't have any idea how A
| will connect to B and then to C until I'm in the moment
| writing.
| rpdillon wrote:
| Brandon Sanderson takes this approach really far. His status
| reports on the multiple series he's writing and the release
| timeline for each is an ongoing source of inspiration for me.
|
| Here's his 2020-in-review post:
| https://www.brandonsanderson.com/state-of-the-sanderson-2020...
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