[HN Gopher] Google-free /e/ OS is now selling preloaded phones i...
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Google-free /e/ OS is now selling preloaded phones in the US,
starting at $380
Author : thg
Score : 110 points
Date : 2021-03-02 18:39 UTC (4 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (arstechnica.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (arstechnica.com)
| plq wrote:
| Why not go sailfish? It also has an android shell that seems to
| run android apps just fine.
| cecja wrote:
| The UX is atrocious.
| chaosharmonic wrote:
| In a word: drivers.
|
| Sailfish has a runtime for Android _apps_ , but under the hood
| it's closer to other mobile Linux projects, and to that end the
| hardware compatibility is less like Lineage or /e/ and more
| like UBPorts.
|
| Android's handling of the Linux kernel, until this current
| version cycle, has involved several forks per device -- patches
| from Google (the Android Common Kernel), then patches from
| chipset vendors, then patches from device vendors -- with
| closed binary drivers inserted at various points in this
| process. [0] Treble has been exposing generic hardware
| interfaces to system images since version 8, but the drivers
| themselves haven't had that kind of uniformity re: how they
| interface with the kernel itself.
|
| There are projects that will adapt them to run GNU-based
| systems -- to use UBPorts as an example again, it actually does
| exist as a GSI -- but since the modifications needed to get
| them to run depend on a custom kernel, they're still device-
| specific.
|
| Meanwhile, Android devices are required to run Google's entire
| test suite using a generic build of AOSP, so while GSI
| compatibility isn't _perfect_ , the minimum baseline is
| effectively just the ability to unlock your bootloader.
|
| [0] Generally. In some cases -- most Huawei devices, non-US
| Samsung models -- the device vendor _is_ the chipset vendor.
| But that doesn 't mean their chipset IP is any more open than,
| say, Qualcomm's, nor does necessarily alter that of other
| components like camera sensors.
| etaioinshrdlu wrote:
| Honestly, I think this kind of thing is more likely to lead to a
| good usable daily-driver phone than the Pinephone. Unfortunately
| there is not quite as much hardware freedom on this device...
| choward wrote:
| I thought they were changing their terrible name.
| labster wrote:
| I'm sure people use their phones to look at ecchi pictures all
| the time.
| johnklos wrote:
| It's a fork of Android, so it's not Google-free.
| unethical_ban wrote:
| Your definition of google-free: Completely zero code input,
| developer overlap, or potential design influence by Google
|
| My definition of google-free as it relates to phones, and I
| think the more common one: No callbacks to any Google service
| such as Play store, google cloud messaging, or any of Google's
| usual default android applications.
| swiley wrote:
| yes. Anything Android based is absolutely dominated by Google.
| At this point it probably takes less manpower to maintain a
| Gnome/KDE/Lomiri based distro for your platform than Google-
| free Android.
| throwawaygulf wrote:
| Get a Pixel 3/4 and throw GrapheneOS on it:
| https://grapheneos.org/
|
| It's the best non-Google, privacy enhanced experience you can get
| at the moment.
| phh wrote:
| The offers of GrapheneOS and /e/ are very different. /e/
| targets to be a usable alternative to a google-owned software,
| which includes for instance cloud storage and backup, access to
| third party proprietary apps, etc. While GrapheneOS is harder
| to use, but it does provide much better security hardening.
| ignoramous wrote:
| hey there phh; slightly tangential, but: What are your plans
| for phh-treble? To be honest, if you've got the bandwidth,
| I'd love for you to start something comparative to /e/ and
| CalyxOS.
|
| With Generic Kernel Images (and APEX to an extent), do you
| see phh-treble likely replacing LineageOS as the preferred
| base for projects like /e/? Merci.
| mickotron wrote:
| This is the way. From another happy grapheneos user, and
| project sponsor.
| twobitshifter wrote:
| Giving money to google to deGoogle yourself is an odd angle.
| UncleOxidant wrote:
| Wow, I don't see that often, but when I tried (several times)
| to go to that link I get: Gah. Your tab just
| crashed.
|
| In Firefox (85.0.1 on Ubuntu 18.04). Works fine in Opera,
| though, and it looks like just a wall of text so I'm not sure
| why FF would be unhappy.
| bryanrasmussen wrote:
| Firefox Developer, worked fine for me.
| MildlySerious wrote:
| Wow indeed, same here. I don't recall seeing that for a very
| long time, if at all. FF85 on Ubuntu 16.04 x64
| Consultant32452 wrote:
| I haven't had any crashes, but I've had more and more sites
| not work with Firefox. The payroll site I use for my small
| business is the most annoying one, I have to switch to
| Safari to run payroll.
| cmeacham98 wrote:
| Works for me on firefox nightly on linux.
| dhimes wrote:
| Firefox 86 Win 10 -- works fine.
| age008 wrote:
| In Europe if we want a Google-free phone we just buy a Huawei.
| kube-system wrote:
| I've only owned one Huawei phone, but it definitely had
| Google's software installed. (and after running some network
| analysis, I noticed it also phoned home to China)
| pdimitar wrote:
| I'm very interested in how do you run the said network
| analysis? I'm considering buying an Android again but I'd
| like to properly tame it by cutting off as much spy traffic
| as possible.
| kube-system wrote:
| I don't remember what I was using at the time, but there's
| a variety of ways to do it, depending on what you're
| looking for. Generally, you want to capture network traffic
| at the packet level and run it through a tool to help you
| analyze it. The tool you pick would depend on what you're
| looking for and the type of analysis you're doing. Here's a
| few tools that come to mind:
|
| https://www.wireshark.org/
|
| https://www.snort.org/
|
| https://www.ntop.org/products/traffic-analysis/ntop/
| pdimitar wrote:
| Thanks. I'm particularly interested in how did you find
| out that your phone was calling Chinese servers.
| extropy wrote:
| Haha, you made my day. Huawei is likely worse than Google in
| tracking. Unless your reason is to avoid Google specifically.
| Bancakes wrote:
| Some people unironically believe "Better China than Five
| Eyes, haha, they're too far away!".
| neolog wrote:
| Why is that wrong?
| renewiltord wrote:
| I wondered that too and I concluded that it's because the
| threat model is different.
|
| * China spying will steal your data and identity so the
| safety of your money and assets will be at risk. Your
| photos may be sold, your credit cards may be stolen, etc.
|
| * Five Eyes spying will hurt you if you're non-normative.
| Say you're a casual drug user or perform low scale
| criminality. Or say you're doing a thing that's legal now
| but illegal later.
|
| Presumably there's the idea that China could blackmail
| you but I have a hard time believing anyone would go for
| that over just letting their naked pics on the Internet.
|
| So the Five Eyes spying is probably harmless to someone
| totally normative. The China spying is probably harmful
| to them.
|
| For the non-normative, dark-web peer to peer Bitcoin user
| who is buying LSD, the China spying is probably better.
| Daho0n wrote:
| You must be in the second category if you think Huawei
| will steal credit cards and rob you.
| renewiltord wrote:
| Yeah, I was eliding all the pieces as to how to get
| there. I think they're more likely to have unpunished
| rogue employees, I think they're more likely to have poor
| security practices, and so on and so forth.
|
| A friend of mine was on the team that investigated the
| Twitter 'breach' that got those Saudi activists
| disappeared. Through personal experience I find it easy
| to believe that technique would have been more effective
| on a Chinese company but since I cannot communicate that
| experience and since you don't share it, I can accept
| that our views must diverge.
|
| And yes, I'm also a drug-using dark-web crypto user. Had
| to keep that one quiet from the investigator friend, eh?
| Daho0n wrote:
| I see nothing wrong with that. Looking at where the US is
| going I'd hate to be there if something I like becomes the
| next Red Scare.
| Daho0n wrote:
| They are "likely worse", IE. you don't know? IMO they are not
| worse and the data collected by Huawei is useless compared to
| anything Google collects since I don't live in or near China.
| They also don't share it with anyone that might kick down my
| door if I like something that the US someday in the future
| sees as the new red scare.
| bobkrusty wrote:
| I live in asia how can i buy this one? Is there any way
| jeroenhd wrote:
| You can follow this guide if you have one of the easy installer
| compatible devices: https://doc.e.foundation/easy-installer
|
| Or on any other supported phone (see this list:
| https://doc.e.foundation/devices/) you can follow the install
| guide there. Might even work with your current phone!
| npteljes wrote:
| You can just buy a used phone that's supported by them and
| install the OS yourself. I have done it with LineageOS and it's
| not hard.
| fuzxi wrote:
| So they're charging a premium (you can buy these phones in mint
| condition on swappa for nearly $150 less) for a refurbished 3
| year old phone because it's preloaded with a ROM for enthusiasts.
| Who would buy this? I can't imagine any of the people who know or
| care enough to use /e/ are the kind of people who'd pay someone
| else $150 to flash a ROM for them.
| npteljes wrote:
| I don't know either but I wish them luck. I'd really like it if
| it would take off, along with Fairphone, Pinephone and Librem.
| websites2323 wrote:
| I've flashed ROMs before. I don't get a kick out of it, and my
| hourly rate is more than $150. I'll probably buy one.
| BoorishBears wrote:
| W... what?
|
| Could you find someone to pay you more than $150 an hour to
| flash a rom?
|
| Do you have to sit there the entire time you're setting up a
| phone with a new rom?
|
| The comment you replied to is making a great point, generally
| people running custom roms without Google's services do so
| because they are _enthusiasts_.
|
| An Android device without Google is going to require avoiding
| very common apps and using workarounds that are _already_
| going to be time consuming whether you flash the device or
| not.
|
| Meanwhile people who aren't enthusiasts probably don't care
| about Google's hooks into Android via GPS.
|
| -
|
| People who apparently think... their hourly rate... is too
| high to flash a rom (something mostly automated anyways...)
| but also want to flash a rom and deal with a phone that is
| missing the core services that normally define an Android
| device on an outdated device _and want to pay a 2x premium
| for a privilege_ may just be a sample size of you lol
| Bancakes wrote:
| You have to actually figure out what a ROM is, how to
| access the bootloader on your device, work out all the
| drivers, naturally figure out all the quirks that happened
| that weren't listed in the instructions, and then flash the
| device. Sadly I can't just flash an .iso onto my phone like
| I would on a USB - 2 clicks.
| extropy wrote:
| GP is saying that there is market for preflashed custom
| device even if it's 150 markup.
|
| And I agree flashing is no fun. It takes time to find a rom
| that supports your device well, realize you need to
| root/unlock bootloader first, etc etc. Most of the time for
| casual flashing is spent finding the right tools and
| setting up.
| BoorishBears wrote:
| Flashing is one thing, flashing _without Google 's
| services_ is another.
|
| My point is if you think flashing is no fun, working
| around the fact Google has moved more and more
| functionality to Google Play Services every year is going
| to be even less fun.
|
| This is a product that only enthusiasts will find fun
| flashing or not, so why even bother paying extra for
| obsolete hardware?
|
| -
|
| Edit because people don't like when you point out the
| obvious and now I'm rate-limited:
|
| Privacy concerned smartphone "normies" have Apple. By
| definition "normies" are not concerned with Stallmanistic
| posturing about how Apple locks down their very secure
| devices.
|
| If you have an ideological opposition to them that
| somehow doesn't apply to the large manufacturers making
| the phones these guys flash I'd love to know it
| websites2323 wrote:
| I'm a time strapped, privacy concerned smartphone normie
| who would love to find a good alternative to Apple /
| Google to recommend to friends. I use three apps:
| messaging, web browser, and camera. Seems like those apps
| are covered in this one.
| smbullet wrote:
| Agreed, I'd probably pick one up if my pinephone wasn't
| already in the mail.
| geogra4 wrote:
| I think /e/ needs the Exynos version, which is much harder to
| come by in the US.
|
| Either way, when I'm ready for my next phone i'm going to
| strongly consider /e/
| fuzxi wrote:
| Yes, there's no root exploit or rootless bootloader unlock
| that I know of on the Snapdragon versions. I'm seeing similar
| prices on the Exynos versions, though.
| bestouff wrote:
| Is there a way to easily install the server part "at home" ?
| npteljes wrote:
| They have a guide, but I'm not sure how easy or stable it is.
| https://gitlab.e.foundation/e/infra/ecloud-selfhosting
| [deleted]
| johnchristopher wrote:
| > an email fork called K-9 Mail,
|
| Say that again :) ?
|
| Tease apart I think and believe /e/ is a really great initiative,
| which aligns better with ecology than Fairphone does (so far).
|
| If my phone was supported I'd have switched long ago (it's a 2015
| sony z5c I bought second hand 3.5 years ago).
| bj-rn wrote:
| /e/ & fairphone have a partnership. You can get a fairphone
| preloaded with /e/OS (in Europe & the UK):
| https://www.fairphone.com/en/2020/04/30/keeping-your-data-sa...
|
| https://esolutions.shop/shop/e-os-fairphone-3/
| sleavey wrote:
| > which aligns better with ecology than Fairphone does (so far)
|
| What do you mean by that?
| johnchristopher wrote:
| A refurbished phone needs less raw materials and processing
| than a new fairphone.
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(page generated 2021-03-02 23:02 UTC)