[HN Gopher] SEMrush S-1
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       SEMrush S-1
        
       Author : us0r
       Score  : 43 points
       Date   : 2021-03-02 18:28 UTC (4 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.sec.gov)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.sec.gov)
        
       | melomal wrote:
       | There's word out there that SEMRush is entangled with the Russian
       | mafia. Literally everyone right now is getting in on this bubble.
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | tmpz22 wrote:
       | Can people claiming success with this product provide just a
       | little more context on how it helped your company? I always think
       | there might be astroturfing with these kinds of submissions.
        
         | nickff wrote:
         | It's useful for figuring out how to optimize your site for
         | 'organic reach', as well as for analyzing the relative
         | popularity of your competitors.
         | 
         | SEMRush can tell you how many people search a variety of terms,
         | and what websites they're visiting after those searches. You
         | can then use this to change the language (key phrases and the
         | like) on your website, and write content (blog posts or landing
         | pages) that fits with existing search user preferences.
         | 
         | You can also pop a competitor, client, or supplier's website
         | into SEMRush, and see how much they spend on ads, as well as
         | how many people are finding their website via search. This can
         | help you figure out what they're doing well, and where they do
         | poorly. You might be able to rank for similar keywords, or go
         | for keywords they aren't targeting.
        
         | dcist wrote:
         | A lot of SEO and digital marketing agencies use SEMrush because
         | it's an easy way to track keyword rankings for your clients and
         | their competitors. SEMrush also generates reports for keyword
         | rankings that are helpful to provide clients. I haven't used it
         | in a few years but I found SEMrush to be a good tool and worth
         | the cost if you have clients.
        
       | ErikAugust wrote:
       | Believe in yourselves: If a scraper (SEMrush) of another scraper
       | (Google Search) can IPO, the sky really is the limit.
        
       | mobilio wrote:
       | This is great news! I know SEMRush from early days and i know
       | their current growth.
        
       | boynamedsue wrote:
       | The people that spam my referrer logs are going public?
        
       | enahs-sf wrote:
       | Growing profits, shrinking losses and a product I've literally
       | used to build my business. I don't see how this isn't a winner
       | long-term.
        
         | ErikAugust wrote:
         | At what price would you buy it though? 1000 P/E? No thanks.
         | Besides you need to account for all the risks.
        
           | dmurray wrote:
           | Good news is that this company is aiming quite a lot lower
           | than 1000!
        
         | bostonsre wrote:
         | The risk section of the s1 is pretty large. At least for the
         | SEO portion, I would guess the biggest risk is that google gets
         | wise and figures out how to block search result scraping
         | better. It is a constant battle to react to changes made to
         | prevent scraping by coming up with new work arounds to get
         | around those changes.
        
       | edoceo wrote:
       | Wow. An SEO IPO. Is the real bubble indicator?
        
         | notyourday wrote:
         | I'm more shocked to see JPM and GSCO taking this on.
        
           | [deleted]
        
           | dna_polymerase wrote:
           | Why? People will buy this, just because it's another Tech-
           | Stock. People bought Nikola and Wirecard just because they
           | have to do something with compute/tech.
           | 
           | As for JPM and GSCO it's good business.
        
       | moat wrote:
       | Meh, not impressed.
       | https://community.investing.io/c/forum/semrush-files-to-go-p...
        
         | fumar wrote:
         | how do you like investing.io?
        
       | digitalbase wrote:
       | They did a small acquisition September 2020
       | 
       | https://www.semrush.com/news/semrush-acquires-fast-growing-s...
        
       | dclaw wrote:
       | Lol... I literally block semrushbot on all of my servers. They
       | are a trash company.
        
         | DoofusOfDeath wrote:
         | > They are a trash company.
         | 
         | How so?
        
           | ratww wrote:
           | Don't know if this is the reason OP hates it, but for me
           | SEMRush and similar companies are the reason the web is
           | littered with blogspam for pretty much every topic.
           | 
           | Content Marketing companies and Content Farms use SEMRush to
           | figure out which topics are covered by competition of their
           | clients and which topics would attract visitors, and then pay
           | pennies to a non-expert freelancer to produce a very shallow
           | text with content probably copied from the same competitor,
           | and littered with keywords recommended by SEMRush. Then, this
           | text rises to the top of Google while non-SEO optimized
           | quality content lingers in obscurity.
           | 
           | How Google doesn't go after those shady practices is beyond
           | me. They're probably just afraid of killing a whole industry
           | and having an antitrust target on their backs.
        
             | Xevi wrote:
             | Imo the problem mainly lies in Google's square. All SEO
             | tools exist for the reason of it being possible to game
             | search results in the first place. It's inevitable that
             | companies will offer tools and services to do so when
             | there's such a huge market for it.
             | 
             | Google has gotten better at discerning between crap and
             | quality content, but they still have a long way to go, and
             | I'm unsure if it can be fully fixed the way search engines
             | currently work.
        
               | kilroy123 wrote:
               | Personally, I've given up hope Google will be the one to
               | do this. They have serious talent and no one can deny
               | this but IMHO Google lacks vision and leadership. They've
               | simply lost their way.
               | 
               | Even their search results have gotten worse and worse.
        
               | dcist wrote:
               | Google's fix for spammy results seems to be favoring
               | large corporations, governments, and putting results on
               | their own page (so-called "rich results" fka "rich
               | snippets).
        
         | bastawhiz wrote:
         | Same. Their bots index content that they have no possibility of
         | being able to parse or use (binaries?!) and at a rate far above
         | anything that could be useful or reasonable.
        
       | jedc wrote:
       | CEO and co-founder still owns 45.7% of all shares!
        
       | sixhobbits wrote:
       | > We have incurred annual net losses since 2016 and expect to
       | continue to incur net losses in the future. We incurred net
       | losses of $10.2 million and $7.0 million for the years ended
       | December 31, 2019 and 2020, respectively. As of December 31,
       | 2020, we had an accumulated deficit of $35.8 million. We do not
       | know if we will be able to achieve or sustain profitability in
       | the future. We plan to continue to invest in our research and
       | development, and sales and marketing efforts, and we anticipate
       | that our operating expenses will continue to increase as we scale
       | our business and expand our operations. We also expect our
       | general and administrative expenses to increase as a result of
       | our growth and operating as a public company. Our ability to
       | achieve and sustain profitability is based on numerous factors,
       | many of which are beyond our control.
       | 
       | how unusual is it for companies to ipo without profit or even a
       | clear path there?
        
         | agloeregrets wrote:
         | Common but it's one of those things that should come with a
         | label on every single ticker or such. As it stands, without any
         | plan or goal to become profitable, investors should acknowlege
         | that they are incurring extreme risk and are investing on
         | concepts outside of any actual plan to eventually turn a
         | profit. To top it all off, they are just crawling Google.
         | Google could potentially shut their entire game down any day.
         | In a different era's market I would expect the SEC to shut it
         | down and ask 'Why are you IPOing?' and 'Is this an attempt to
         | exit from a failing business by misleading investors?'.
        
         | akiselev wrote:
         | It's been standard operating procedure in several high tech
         | industries like biotech for decades. The FDA doesn't allow
         | anyone to charge for anything related to medicine or medical
         | devices until a premarketing application is approved so many
         | biotech companies (if not most, since anything profitable pre-
         | IPO is generally gobbled up by pharma) IPO with _zero revenue_
         | and their success or failure is entirely dependent on a few
         | binary decisions made by government agencies which ostensibly
         | depend on the strength of the science.
         | 
         | It depends heavily on industry dynamics; in biotech it's not a
         | problem since "product-market fit" is essentially predetermined
         | and there are very few "customers", which are limited to
         | private/public insurers representing patients and pharma
         | companies looking to grow their stock value. In software there
         | is a lot of capital sloshing around because the vast majority
         | of it goes towards payroll which can be scaled up or down on a
         | whim and many times the return on an investment depends not on
         | dividends from profits but acquisitions by other companies
         | looking to move their own stock price (the public version of an
         | acquihire). There's the additional factor that many tech
         | companies have network effects that form semi-monopolies which
         | can be an order or two of magnitude more profitable than
         | competitive industries.
         | 
         | You won't find the same level of unprofitable IPOs in resource
         | extraction, for example, which is subject to the whims of
         | governments, fluctuating prices, _and_ requires massive up
         | front investments. Most of the excess capital goes towards
         | hedging the aforementioned risks so dividends from profit is
         | how money makes its way back to investors. Unprofitable IPOs
         | only really happens when some company signs a big deal for
         | mineral /resource rights with a government and spins off a
         | separate company to raise money to exploit that deal without
         | diluting the main company. If the government is considered
         | reliable to investors, its perfectly normal to throw money in.
        
         | jxramos wrote:
         | Amazon reached its first reported profit like 10 years after
         | founding. It's hard risk all the way through with funding
         | needed to pay wages and other fixed expenses. Pretty amazing
         | that people stick to it as long as it takes to become
         | profitable. I'm not so sure my nerves could take all the
         | suspense.
         | 
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Amazon
        
           | a13n wrote:
           | A lot of companies, and particularly Amazon, always have an
           | easy path to profitability in their back pocket. They simply
           | choose not to be profitable because it means they'll pay less
           | taxes and grow faster. It's a lot easier to "stick with it"
           | with this in mind.
        
             | jxramos wrote:
             | that's an interesting idea, could you comment on some of
             | those deferred profitability strategies? How does that work
             | precisely?
        
               | weird-eye-issue wrote:
               | You spend more money than you make to grow revenue and
               | capture market share. Then you try to slowly become
               | profitable over time. It's how nearly every growth
               | company operates, whether it is a startup or public
               | company.
        
               | a13n wrote:
               | If you make $100k in profit, you pay 21% in taxes, so it
               | turns into $79k.
               | 
               | If you instead invest that $100k into growth (eg. ads,
               | sales people, marketers, engineers), you pay $0 of taxes,
               | and can ideally generate an additional $200-300k revenue
               | next year because of the investment.
               | 
               | Would you rather have $79k now, or $200-300k next year?
               | 
               | If you always invest, you'll grow faster and never pay
               | taxes. With this in mind, why would these companies want
               | to be profitable?
               | 
               | The major assumption here is that you have a way to
               | invest $x now into $x+ in the future. A lot of SaaS
               | companies have this down to a science via metrics like
               | CAC, payback period, etc.
        
               | chmod775 wrote:
               | Simply re-invest every bit of profit you would make.
               | Build new locations, new services, hire more people, buy
               | stuff, etc.
               | 
               | Spending money isn't rocket science. Spending it wisely
               | may be.
        
               | jxramos wrote:
               | is it safe to say reinvesting is counted as a loss for
               | tax purposes then? How does the tax angle come into play,
               | taxes are only on profit income not revenues?
        
               | graeme wrote:
               | Yes, taxes are only on profits. You don't need a loss per
               | se, you just need to reinvest everything.
               | 
               | The results would be crazy otherwise. Tech makes near
               | 100% margins, grocery about 2%. But both industries would
               | pay the same level of tax on 100% of revenue if it wasn't
               | profit based.
        
         | tofuahdude wrote:
         | very common and the language in here is typical
        
         | Xevi wrote:
         | I think Unity also only had losses when they went public.
        
         | poultron wrote:
         | Not unusual. Look at Blue Apron. https://www.wsj.com/market-
         | data/quotes/APRN/financials/annua...
        
         | donsupreme wrote:
         | Uber
        
       | eaenki wrote:
       | How are they at 144ARR and 76% gross margins losing money on an
       | SEO SaaS?
        
         | alvah wrote:
         | This is the question I have too. Looks like they have far too
         | many employees (IIRC around 10-20x their biggest rival Ahrefs,
         | who incidentally aren't losing money). The headcount can't be
         | all of it though.
        
       | bladegash wrote:
       | Very interesting! I have found their product a joy to use and I
       | say this with all sincerity, credit it with getting our business
       | out of a tough spot during COVID. Wishing them the best on the
       | IPO!
        
         | mprev wrote:
         | What specifically did it do for you?
        
           | bladegash wrote:
           | Allowed for us to understand where we were doing well in
           | terms of page rankings, where we were not, what keywords we
           | needed to begin targeting to get the most traffic volume, and
           | recommendations on what that content should consist of.
           | 
           | We were also able to gain insights into competitors, what
           | keywords they were targeting, where there were opportunities
           | to hit keywords they were not, etc. It also gives estimates
           | as to how much they are spending on advertising, which can be
           | useful.
           | 
           | While I'm sure other factors have contributed, our sales of
           | IT services has tripled and verticals we were receiving no
           | leads in are getting a significant amount. All organically.
           | 
           | I will also say we were able to reduce our advertising spend
           | from $1,500 to $0.00 per month.
           | 
           | I can't recommend using SEMRush highly enough, especially for
           | small businesses.
        
             | [deleted]
        
       | shrubble wrote:
       | A very dishonest company whose scrapers are tough to block. They
       | don't honor robots.txt and tell you that you have to add in
       | special verbiage to get them to stop. They hop IPs from different
       | ranges so they are difficult to range-ban.
        
         | judge2020 wrote:
         | Yep - they get blocked a lot by CF (probably for not honoring
         | robots and crawling random websites for marketing purposes) yet
         | a lot of people use it and wonder why it's blocked:
         | https://community.cloudflare.com/search?q=Semrush
        
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       (page generated 2021-03-02 23:02 UTC)