[HN Gopher] Repl.it Teams for Education
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       Repl.it Teams for Education
        
       Author : dsr12
       Score  : 60 points
       Date   : 2021-03-02 17:17 UTC (5 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (repl.it)
 (TXT) w3m dump (repl.it)
        
       | amasad wrote:
       | Hello HN! Replit CEO and cofounder here. When the pandemic hit
       | last year, we start hearing from educators using Replit that
       | Multiplayer has been crucial for their student's continued
       | education but that it was hard to manage a class full of students
       | using it. We sprinted to design and ship a beta of our Teams
       | product optimized for distance learning. We wanted to make
       | something that delivered on the following:
       | 
       | - Helps teachers teach remotely: Features like "Who's Coding"
       | which allows the teachers to see what projects students were
       | working on, helped teachers jump in like they would IRL and, on
       | top of that, be able to leave inline comments and chat with the
       | student.
       | 
       | - Helps students code together: Group projects, Multiplayer, and
       | the fun, creative coding features that we have, like support for
       | graphics, made project-based distance learning a blast for the
       | student.
       | 
       | - Automated and asynchronous workflows. Things like auto-grading
       | using I/O and unit tests, in addition to Threads -- our inline
       | code comments feature -- allow teachers to manage a large
       | classroom and students to get both instant and async feedback on
       | their work.
       | 
       | - Mobile support. We started hearing from students worldwide that
       | they didn't have computers at home to continue learning, so we
       | made our coding environment mobile optimized and it grew 900% in
       | 2020. https://blog.repl.it/mobile
       | 
       | Teachers are reporting that it's a "game-changer" and that it
       | fundamentally changed how they teach coding, so much so that
       | they'll continue to use the same workflow even when they go back
       | to classroom
       | (https://twitter.com/Felienne/status/1346750239751942145).
       | 
       | But we're not just building for teachers, students are reporting
       | that they're enjoying coding more, especially with group
       | projects, and that they're having fun learning. We're engaging
       | researchers to conduct a small-scale study to see if improved
       | outcomes can be borne out in the data.
       | 
       | Happy to answer questions! More info on our blog:
       | https://blog.repl.it/teams_release
        
         | trevorishere wrote:
         | This is going to be confused with Microsoft Teams for
         | Education. It will also be hard to search for, again given
         | Microsoft Teams.
        
           | amasad wrote:
           | Amazing how Microsoft monopolized a generic word like
           | "Teams". Luckily Replit has a good brand name in education,
           | it's pretty easy to google for, and it grows mostly by word-
           | of-mouth.
        
             | onewhonknocks wrote:
             | I also thought this was about Microsoft Teams TBH.
        
             | colejohnson66 wrote:
             | Apple "monopolized" the generic fruit "apple" and no one
             | batted an eye (except maybe the Beatles). There's countless
             | examples of generic words being trademarked.
        
               | jdminhbg wrote:
               | The difference is that "apple" is unrelated to the
               | product space, but "teams" is not.
        
               | filoleg wrote:
               | I don't think the parent comment meant it as some bad
               | evil thing. More like just a factual curiosity, sort of
               | as "huh, damn, pretty interesting how they have managed
               | to do it."
               | 
               | On a personal level, I think the Apple case is a bit
               | different. There is no other technical product that is
               | named Apple, and neither it is inherently the word used
               | to describe what a product or a company does. While Teams
               | definitely falls under the "similar enough" umbrella of
               | words related to the function of the product.
               | 
               | Not that it makes any difference, and, in fact, I think
               | it was pretty clever of MSFT to manage to make that
               | product name work, since I was pretty skeptical of how
               | well it was gonna work at first.
        
               | colejohnson66 wrote:
               | > I don't think the parent comment meant it as some bad
               | evil thing. More like just a factual curiosity, sort of
               | as "huh, damn, pretty interesting how they have managed
               | to do it."
               | 
               | Right. I read it as that too, but I see I may have come
               | off too strong. I was agreeing with OP while mentioning
               | that others have done it as well.
        
               | watwut wrote:
               | Because people like Apple software. Unlike MS Teams which
               | I hate with passion.
        
             | trevorishere wrote:
             | Without adding "Replit" to my search term, I couldn't find
             | your product on the first three page of Bing or Google in a
             | private mode browser.
             | 
             | But if you have good in-roads with the edu space, this
             | seems like less of an issue.
        
         | monk_e_boy wrote:
         | As an educator that uses the free version of your site... A
         | debugger for Python is the killer feature you're missing.
         | 
         | Stepping through code, especially loops for beginners is game
         | changing.
        
           | amasad wrote:
           | Coming this summer!
        
         | comment1231 wrote:
         | > Teachers are reporting
         | 
         | FYI, some teachers were unhappy with the shutting down of the
         | classroom feature on repl.it and the replacing it with Teams
         | for education.
         | 
         | Some were unhappy after having everything setup in classroom,
         | then had to migrate to teams. Some were unhappy it wasn't free.
         | Some were unhappy it was free only for basically a semester,
         | which won't last a full AP CS A course (so if they were in a
         | rush to start, they'd be stuck having to pay, or else they'd
         | have to switch mid-course, which is hard, and if the school
         | refuses to pay because it's not budgeted, then stuck to pay
         | means out of own pocket.).
         | 
         | Of course you have to cheerlead your product. That's
         | understandable. THought you'd like to know some feedback
         | anyway.
        
           | amasad wrote:
           | We fixed the migration pathway so if you haven't tried
           | recently, give it a shot. If you have budget issues happy to
           | give you the new product for free. Email me anytime:
           | amjad@repl.it
        
         | nerd_light wrote:
         | I've been helping teach high school CS classes for years, and
         | even just being able to use some free accounts with students to
         | share code and workspaces has been flawlessly simple. I've
         | always (even pre-pandemic) been a remote instructor, and
         | Repl.it has been one of my best tool experiences. Thanks for
         | the great work!
        
         | ignoramous wrote:
         | > _We started hearing from students worldwide that they didn 't
         | have computers at home to continue learning, so we made our
         | coding environment mobile optimized and it grew 900% in 2020.
         | https://blog.repl.it/mobile_
         | 
         | As someone who saw friends struggle to conjure up enough money
         | to buy laptops during the pandemic (with looming socio-economic
         | uncertainty no less), this is simply priceless; especially
         | since it is pretty common for Bay Area companies to be
         | insulated away from the realities of a world afar where even
         | "cheap" Scaleway / DO compute is deemed expensive. Ironically,
         | it is indeed this world afar that is in dire need of realising
         | benefits (especially in terms of lower cost) that only
         | technology can deliver. Thank you very much!
        
           | amasad wrote:
           | Thank you! We pride ourselves on being more in touch. We have
           | employees in India and Palestine and other places in the
           | world, and some of us use chromebooks as our primary device.
           | 
           | We wrote about our global approach here:
           | https://blog.repl.it/global
        
       | MikusR wrote:
       | It's not Microsoft Teams.
        
       | somethoughts wrote:
       | Is it possible to disable the "Talk" feature for Teams for
       | Education accounts? This social media like feature actually makes
       | it less interesting to use for a coding clubs for younger kids.
        
         | amasad wrote:
         | Yes! See this doc on Privacy:
         | https://docs.repl.it/Teams/privacyFAQs
        
       | semitones wrote:
       | Although I love the cool features, I'm worried this could
       | potentially exacerbate situations where students already feel
       | like they're "being watched" while learning remotely (i.e. being
       | forced to have their camera on constantly while in class). I
       | could imagine some students feeling anxious about having to
       | complete assignments on a platform like this, where every step of
       | their incompetence (due to their nascent programming skills) is
       | available for the teacher to see. Although I firmly believe the
       | tech is cool and useful, how helpful it is will come down to
       | classroom policies.
        
         | amasad wrote:
         | While this sounds plausible, fortunately it doesn't seem to be
         | the case. We're hearing is that it's both improving student
         | outcomes and making coding more fun and exciting for students,
         | so much so that they continue coding after their class. This
         | came in recently from a CS teacher in Mexico City:
         | 
         | > I am a CS teacher at a public high school in Mexico City, and
         | I am fortunate to use Repl.it since the past October. My remote
         | classes have gone so good thanks to Repl.it, my students have
         | been learning a lot by working with your platform. They have
         | even given me a C language code made in Repl.it as a present on
         | my birthday.
         | 
         | We're also working with researchers to conduct a small study to
         | see if this can be borne out in outcomes data.
        
           | sodality2 wrote:
           | As a high school CS student, I'm sure _some_ students will
           | feel the pressure to code and fear of embarrassment,
           | especially if the whole class is set to see progress. Perhaps
           | an option to anonymize the names to the other students if it
           | is a group project?
           | 
           | We use repl.it for students without access to BlueJ and it
           | works great. In fact, I will be messaging this to my AP CSA
           | teacher with this because this looks absolutely game-
           | changing.
        
             | amasad wrote:
             | Yeah we have an option to anonymize names:
             | https://docs.repl.it/Teams/privacyFAQs
        
           | pseudalopex wrote:
           | You can be sure it is the case for some students.
        
       | wdroz wrote:
       | We are using nbgrader[0] to handle the labs of our students,
       | while we are happy with nbgrader, from the videos, Teams for
       | Education look so much nicer to use.
       | 
       | I also agree that using tools centered on coding offer a really
       | nice experience for both students and teachers.
       | 
       | [0] -- https://github.com/jupyter/nbgrader
        
       | alexashka wrote:
       | Maybe I'm missing something - I did 'team' work by simply sharing
       | the screen and letting both people control the cursor and
       | keyboard, many years ago.
       | 
       | It had the added benefit of not being confined to a single tool
       | but rather a complete desktop experience.
       | 
       | This strikes me as an inferior offering, as does a non-native IDE
       | as a whole, in exchange for minor convenience. Thoughts?
        
         | sodality2 wrote:
         | For student learning, a full IDE in a browser that has a very
         | low barrier to entry is very important. Half of my AP CSA class
         | uses chromebooks exclusively and thus have no access to real
         | IDE's. since this is for education I think it's very beneficial
         | there.
         | 
         | Elsewhere, yeah, a full IDE is probably better. But this
         | definitely has a use case IMO.
        
           | [deleted]
        
           | [deleted]
        
           | comment1231 wrote:
           | For student learning, it depends on your philosophy, intent,
           | or goals.
           | 
           | For APCSA students, especially those who can take more CS
           | courses before/after the APCSA exam course... these are high
           | school level students. There's no reason why they can't be
           | using a real IDE (e.g. Eclipse, or whatever you like),
           | learning Java in a terminal, and learn to write real GUIs
           | (e.g. Swing, or whatever you like) [1].
           | 
           | Yeah I know... Java, Swing, Eclipse... Look, it's AP CS A.
           | Java is the language of instruction. No choice. But we can
           | make the best of it. Students can learn using real tools.
           | 
           | In high school wood shop class, they teach what the pros use,
           | more or less. Real hammers. Real drill presses.
           | 
           | That's not to say Repl.it is purely a toy tool. Of course you
           | can make real things using non-pro tools too, ikea
           | screwdrivers, dollar store saws, etc. But it depends on your
           | teaching philosophy, goals, and resources. Some high school
           | students are a few years away from working, coding, in
           | industry --- why not learn real IDEs if it's available?
           | 
           | You're right, there's definitely a use case for Repl.it.
           | Chromebooks... I'm sorry for your situation. Even a cheap
           | laptop with Windows or Linux nowadays is enough to learn Java
           | with Netbeans and the command line. If my class all had
           | chromebooks, I'd probably jump on REpl.it too.
           | 
           | But if students have a non-locked-down OS, seems to me
           | learning the real deal is better for the student. It's not
           | just the IDE and coding in it. It's the entire ecosystem
           | students get to be exposed to. Get stuck on something, jump
           | in the command line. Learn git in bash. Play with maven. It's
           | a rich, real, authentic environment to learn in. Stuck in the
           | browser means only getting what the web site provides.
           | 
           | But that's old school thinking. I suspect the world of
           | primary and secondary CS education will move more and more
           | into REpl.it style web based tools. Here's why:
           | 
           | Everything's getting locked down, and people are busy.
           | 
           | If a student comes and says they have trouble installing Java
           | in Windows, it's easier to just say... go to ReplIt.
           | 
           | If a school board is downsizing / rightsizing / cloud-ifying
           | their I.T., they might say they won't allow/support/install
           | Eclipse on school PCs anymore, because it takes too much
           | technician time to support it, or it opens up security issues
           | to allow arbitrary code from students to run, or they want to
           | replace everything with Chromebooks, or just do it in the
           | cloud...whatever. What's a teacher to do? Replit.
           | 
           | Students comes with a Mac, all locked down, has trouble even
           | running example or utility programs from the teacher because
           | of notarization? Replit.
           | 
           | Student has no desktop/laptop. School does'nt have a
           | chromebook to lend out. But probably student still has a
           | mobile device! Replit.
           | 
           | As coding education becomes more widespread, like math before
           | it, more and more classes will be taught by teachers who are
           | not experts in coding, possibly not even by a hobbyist coder,
           | maybe not even by someone who likes code. It'll be taught by
           | an English / math/ bio / P.E. teacher who needs a class to
           | round out their 1.0 FTE. Maybe supported by an expert CS
           | teacher, maybe, but at some point everyone's busy. So much
           | easier to just use repl.it. Gives students some activities to
           | do.
           | 
           | And how's the social teacher who's never seen a terminal
           | supposed to help troubleshoot classpath problems in Java on a
           | student's computer? or on a school computer they have no
           | admin access to because... I.T.? That teacher may be very
           | capable, but who has the time anyway? Replit with constrained
           | templates and projects will be very very helpful.
           | 
           | Sorry this is so long...
           | 
           | tldr. If students have a non-locked-down OS, seems to me
           | learning the real deal is better _for the student_. But due
           | to everything getting locked down, economic reasons, and
           | teachers /people/technicians being just too busy, the trend
           | in primary/secondary CS education will be towards more web
           | based platforms... because it's better _for the teachers
           | /administrators/I.T./wallet_.
        
             | 908B64B197 wrote:
             | I joked that schools that are serious about teaching CS
             | should just get a rack with *NIX machines properly
             | configured and networked together and have everyone serious
             | enough ssh/remote to them. For the students that just
             | wished ReplIt could let them do that one thing it can't...
             | 
             | With regular back-up so that when a student inevitably mess
             | up beyond repair (rogue rm or dd command or something
             | modifying his path) he can time-machine like roll back to a
             | previous version.
             | 
             | Then you get to enjoy the show. Someone will inevitably
             | start pen-testing the school. Why is one machine constantly
             | maxed-out? Is that a Quake server they are running? Oh they
             | have their own chat client/protocol now, interesting.
             | Basically https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incompatible_Timesh
             | aring_Syste...
        
             | sodality2 wrote:
             | > There's no reason why they can't be using a real IDE
             | (e.g. Eclipse, or whatever you like), learning Java in a
             | terminal, and learn to write real GUIs (e.g. Swing, or
             | whatever you like).
             | 
             | BlueJ is incompatible with Chromebooks, unfortunately.
             | 
             | > Some high school students are a few years away from
             | working, coding, in industry --- why not learn real IDEs if
             | it's available?
             | 
             | Very true, unfortunately BlueJ is mandated by Advanced
             | Placement and the tests are on paper (!) but I always
             | prefer a full IDE.
             | 
             | >But if students have a non-locked-down OS, seems to me
             | learning the real deal is better for the student. It's not
             | just the IDE and coding in it. It's the entire ecosystem
             | students get to be exposed to. Get stuck on something, jump
             | in the command line. Learn git in bash. Play with maven.
             | It's a rich, real, authentic environment to learn in. Stuck
             | in the browser means only getting what the web site
             | provides.
             | 
             | Unfortunately, the trend is becoming online. I hope the
             | teachers explain that these tools are good for learning but
             | never outside of a learning environment. It's like scratch:
             | you'd never teach it to actual CS students but for feeling
             | out an interest in CS it's pretty good.
             | 
             | >If a student comes and says they have trouble installing
             | Java in Windows, it's easier to just say... go to ReplIt.
             | 
             | If an AP CSA student can't install Java... that doesn't
             | bode well for their general computing knowledge. Then again
             | AP CSA isn't super high level. We just learned about
             | `extends` sub/superclasses in java, and we're pretty far
             | into the course.
             | 
             | >As coding education becomes more widespread, like math
             | before it, more and more classes will be taught by teachers
             | who are not experts in coding, possibly not even by a
             | hobbyist coder, maybe not even by someone who likes code.
             | It'll be taught by an English / math/ bio / P.E. teacher
             | who needs a class to round out their 1.0 FTE.
             | 
             | Agree. My AP CSA teacher is very qualified but I've seen
             | that trend in plenty of other lower-level computing classes
             | in MS and HS like "computer applications" class and
             | "cybersec fundamentals".
             | 
             | >tldr. If students have a non-locked-down OS, seems to me
             | learning the real deal is better for the student. But due
             | to everything getting locked down, economic reasons, and
             | teachers/people/technicians being just too busy, the trend
             | in primary/secondary CS education will be towards more web
             | based platforms... because it's better for the
             | teachers/administrators/I.T./wallet.
             | 
             | Sigh, I just hope this doesn't affect the education
             | negatively like it sounds like it will...
        
               | comment1231 wrote:
               | > BlueJ is mandated by Advanced Placement
               | 
               | Where did you see that? It's not mandated. My AP students
               | use Netbeans or Eclipse or IDEA (their choice). I have an
               | AP approved syllabus that I wrote myself based on the
               | College Board AP course and exam description. If you use
               | the Blue Pellican Java textbook, I recall it teaches
               | BlueJ. But other approved textbooks don't.
               | 
               | > If an AP CSA student can't install Java... that doesn't
               | bode well for their general computing knowledge
               | 
               | Well, if they use Replit, they'd never know they didn't
               | know! And they'd never get a chance to learn to
               | troubleshoot. They'd never learn general computing
               | knowledge. But that's part of my "ecosystem" point.
               | 
               | > Sigh, I just hope this doesn't affect the education
               | negatively like it sounds like it will...
               | 
               | I think you and I are on the same wavelength here. I
               | don't know if education will be affected negatively, but
               | it'll be more "specialized". Students 10 years ago at my
               | school learned Linux, MongoDB (why not? lol), Java,
               | Eclipse, bash, git, etc. Because of some of the things I
               | noted, they now learn... Java in Eclipse. 10 years from
               | now, they'll learn... to code in Replit.
               | 
               | Maybe that's just how it goes. 100 years ago, math
               | students learned to make paper and ink (did they? was
               | that 500 years ago? I don't know). Now they learn math.
               | 100 years from now, they learn math code in coq on Replit
               | (lol).
               | 
               | Cheers
        
               | sodality2 wrote:
               | >Where did you see that? It's not mandated
               | 
               | My AP teacher mandates the use of BlueJ, I was under the
               | impression it was AP. I asked if I could use another full
               | IDE because the keybinds in BlueJ suck, he said no
               | because the Intellisense/other smart features may make it
               | easier and I won't be able to use it on the exam. Which
               | is sort of fair I suppose.
               | 
               | >Well, if they use Replit, they'd never know they didn't
               | know! And they'd never get a chance to learn to
               | troubleshoot. They'd never learn general computing
               | knowledge. But that's part of my "ecosystem" point.
               | 
               | Very true.
               | 
               | > Students 10 years ago at my school learned Linux,
               | MongoDB (why not? lol), Java, Eclipse, bash, git, etc
               | 
               | That makes me glad that I'm learning with good tools. I
               | hope the trend doesn't continue to fully learning college
               | courses in a browser. :/
               | 
               | Then again, I'm literally in high school hating on the
               | new-fangled tools...
        
             | daltonlp wrote:
             | Your tl/dr is spot-on. The critical resource is teachers'
             | and students' time.
             | 
             | Keep in mind, we're talking about teaching students in a
             | class, with a curriculum.
             | 
             | This is not high-value open ended learning with real tools.
             | This is basic skill training exercises.
             | 
             | I speak from the experience of watching a teacher struggle
             | with multiple students' python dependencies for the first
             | two weeks of class. This was with a set of (supposedly)
             | homogenous school-issued laptops. After switching to
             | repl.it, all that hassle just disappeared.
        
         | HideousKojima wrote:
         | Also VSCode (and full Visual Studio) have Live Share
         | functionality that works similarly to Google Docs
        
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