[HN Gopher] Show HN: A network of weather stations to help preve...
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Show HN: A network of weather stations to help prevent pesticide
spray drift
Author : Damon_Mesonet
Score : 69 points
Date : 2021-03-02 08:42 UTC (14 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (cotl.com.au)
(TXT) w3m dump (cotl.com.au)
| Damon_Mesonet wrote:
| Hi HN!
|
| I'm Damon, project engineer for the Mid North Mesonet and the
| Riverland and Mallee Mesonet in the state of South Australia.
|
| A mesonet is a term for a network of automated weather stations
| designed to monitor meteorological phenomena at high geographic
| density and updated frequently.
|
| We built these networks to help prevent pesticide spray drift -
| the phenomenon in which pesticide spray that is applied to a crop
| ends up drifting to other crops, sometimes many kilometres away.
|
| Spray drift can be a huge problem, as it can lead to damage or
| even destruction of highly valuable crops, and can also cause
| pollution to waterways and harm to native ecosystems.
|
| My father is a veteran meteorologist, and he has done extensive
| research into the weather conditions that cause spray drift.
|
| The biggest weather factor is thermal inversions, the phenomenon
| in which temperature increases with increasing altitude, which
| usually happens in the evening and overnight, but can happen at
| other times.
|
| Other meteorological phenomena also affect the likelihood of
| spray drift.
|
| So we designed a weather station to measure all the relevant
| meteorological phenomena, and in particular to detect thermal
| inversions.
|
| To read more info about the project's background, the meteorology
| and the technical details of the weather stations, see this link:
|
| https://cotl.com.au/launch.html
|
| And the links to the actual mesonet web apps are:
|
| Mid North Mesonet: https://midnorthmesonet.com.au/
|
| Riverland and Mallee Mesonet:
| https://riverlandmalleemesonet.com.au/
|
| I'll be here to answer questions about the weather stations, and
| my father Warwick will also be around to answer questions about
| the meteorological aspects of the project.
| forgotmypw17 wrote:
| Thank you so much for doing this. It is a really helpful thing
| you're doing for the world.
|
| What crops would you say are most used in conjunction with the
| bad types of pesticides in South Australia?
| shakna wrote:
| I see the pilot was deemed to be successful, though it might be
| too early to tell, so I assume you've put significant work it
| what I think is the biggest problem to solve in this space: The
| human problem.
|
| How do you manage to onboard many farmers, many of whom in
| Australia tend to be... Resistant... to new technology, into
| making use of your network to prevent damage to their
| neighbours downwind from them?
| Damon_Mesonet wrote:
| Hi Shakna
|
| Both the pilot mesonet in the Mid North and the subsequent
| network in the Riverland Mallee were actually strongly
| supported by local growers. Many farmers are embracing the
| latest AgTech to farm more efficiently.
|
| A majority of pesticide sprays such as 2,4-D and glyphosate
| have label requirements that state they cannot be sprayed
| during an inversion. It is illegal to spray during an
| inversion and farmers must keep records of their spray times.
| Without the mesonet, spray applicators had no easy way to
| know if an inversion was present or not. Given inversions
| typically happen at night time, many growers adopted a method
| of not spraying from dusk until dawn. Now, with the mesonet
| data, they find that their 'spray window' is possibly
| different and may even open up more time for them to spray.
| Most farmers want to do the right thing, and now they have
| the real-time data to make informed decisions.
|
| Also, the public nature of the data display means that anyone
| spraying during an inversion will be noticed by their
| neighbours. This will hopefully lead to cultural change and
| practice change as the public data will make it highly
| awkward for 'cowboy' growers in the community to flout the
| rules and claim ignorance. We also have all the historical
| records should the regulators ask for it if a spray drift
| event occurs.
| jeremy3242 wrote:
| In your website I see "atmospheric stability" as a measurement.
| How is this measured as "stable" or "unstable"?
| Damon_Mesonet wrote:
| Hi Jeremy For our current Mesonets, we simply measure the
| presence of an inversion (i.e. the temperature differential
| between 10m and 1.2m). However, we can also measure other forms
| of atmospheric stability such as the categorises in the
| Pasquill Gifford stability classes, as well as various wind
| fluctuations and Richardson number etc.
|
| We are keeping abreast of the most up-to-date science around
| measures of atmospheric stability and spraying so we are
| 'future-proofed' for new discoveries that may pop up in Met
| Journals in the next year or two.
| toshk wrote:
| Thank you for trying.
|
| It saddens me how easy it still is for companies how easy it is
| to dump toxics in the air, water and land.
|
| The proof often falls upon the "people" to prove chemicals used
| by companies are toxic instead of companies profiting from
| releasing them in to the environment providing extensive research
| that doing so is actually safe. Often years, if not decades
| before enough research is done before the harm is proven and
| legislation is made. It needs to be the other way around.
|
| In the meanwhile the individual suffering caused is immense. Of
| course Dupont is a famous relatively recent example. Related to
| this project the link between pesticides and neurological
| diseases, like Parkinson, is strong but still needs a lot
| research before actual changes will be made.
| dejv wrote:
| I don't know how this thing goes outside of EU, but here as a
| farmer I have to go throgh state multiday exams every few years
| that makes me personally liable for all harm to other crops,
| population of bees and people who actually operate tractors.
|
| As a person in charge of spray program I have to make sure that
| weather condition is ok to spray (temperature, wind), my
| sprayers comply to standards and are tested in certified
| laboratory (things jet size, droplet size and uniformity) and I
| need to log every information and keep all that records for
| years to be checked by authorities anytime (and they do check
| them often).
|
| It is easy to see pesticides as a easy target, but I am affraid
| that it is actually not easy to dump toxic in the air, water
| and land as almost any gram of pesticide and packaging have to
| be accounted for and handled with care.
|
| (btw I am working in organic agriculture and do not use any
| pesticides except of sulfur and bit of a copper and I don't
| have any interest in conventional agriculture business)
| cmrdporcupine wrote:
| Yeah, same here in Ontario I can't even spray organic
| products without a pesticide applicators license which
| involves a training course.
|
| That's not to say the other local farmers don't do stupid
| things though. I get glyphosate drift into my vineyard almost
| every year.
| bluGill wrote:
| Glyphosate is a lot safer than many organic products. Of
| course the later is a "chemical" with a "scary" name, while
| the later has great marketing and has been used for
| thousands of years.
| cmrdporcupine wrote:
| You're not getting it and not telling me anything
| informative. It kills my grapevines. It's safe for humans
| and shitty to plants that aren't engineered to tolerate
| it. It's a dick-neighbour thing to do to spray it
| indiscriminately and in the wrong weather conditions but
| it happens _all the time_
| bluGill wrote:
| It is harmful to your grapevines when it reaches them,
| that is very true and I don't want to down play that.
|
| However it is less harmful than most organic options
| overall. It is completely harmless to humans or other
| wildlife. It doesn't build up over time.
| toshk wrote:
| It's pretty widely accepted in the medical community that
| pesticides are correlated to Parkinson's. It seems to be
| connected to exposure over time, not necessarily build up
| in the body.
|
| You are right that a so-called organic pesticide like
| rotenone seems to be even worse. They were able to induce
| parkinson in just a few weeks in rats with it. But also
| Glyphosate is looked at with a lot of suspicion.
|
| Take this case study, they refer to several cases and
| epidemiologic research:
| https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30799335/
|
| Considering the medical attention and research it gets, I
| see no reason to be as sure as you are. Especially your
| quote "it's completely harmless" seems to have no solid
| reasoning behind it.
| toshk wrote:
| Water in Netherlands next to pastures and farmlands often had
| high levels of toxicity, meaning it was treated as chemical
| waste. Because of strict regulations got better. Still
| happens to certain rivers. Had natural parc next to river
| where I get my meat call back meat because of too high levels
| of toxicity just last year.
|
| Certain factories here also still allowed to dump chemicals
| which in other countries are not allowed etc.
|
| Next to that, in certain areas here residential areas and
| fruit trees mix. So even with limited spraying and limited
| wind, you are sitting in the garden while tractor is spraying
| the trees a few meters from you.
| tomhoward wrote:
| The issue here really isn't about it being "easy ... for
| companies how easy it is to dump toxics in the air".
|
| Sure, the safety of chemical pesticides is an issue, and
| something for manufacturers, users and regulators to continue
| working on.
|
| But the relevant issue here is that the most well-intentioned,
| responsible farmer, has not, until now, had the information
| available to determine whether spraying at a given point in
| time is safe, whereas, thanks to this platform, they now do.
|
| Well aside from any health effects of pesticides on humans, it
| will always be the case that certain chemicals that are
| suitable to be applied to one type of crop will be potentially
| harmful to a different type of crop. That's the issue that this
| platform seeks to address, and it seems to be working so far.
| toshk wrote:
| My point being "working on" isn't really good enough when the
| health consequences for people are severe.
|
| Take dupont, took decades. Now same is happening for
| pesticides. Many we use now simply will be forbidden in
| decades. Yet for now they will continue to be used and cause
| harm.
|
| I happened to have grown up between we fruit trees and close
| people are paying the price. Residential areas and fruit
| trees mix here. Meaning the tractor with pesticides en
| herbicides are passing 5 to 10 meters from you while you are
| relaxing in the garden. Which hopefully in many countries is
| not the case.
| Jennifer9918910 wrote:
| I'm available for sex, Please just follow my link
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| throwaway8326 wrote:
| hows about stop spraying
| jeremy3242 wrote:
| Because organic farming is way more resource intensive and
| produces far less yield. Spray is necessary but just needs to
| be used appropriately.
|
| Appropriate spraying and shifting away from such meat based
| diets would be best.
| nelsonmandela wrote:
| What are the most dangerous pesticides in use in Australia? Are
| farmers liable for damage now or in the past from improper
| application of pesticides?
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(page generated 2021-03-02 23:03 UTC)