[HN Gopher] SolidRun 1U 2 node Arm Server
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       SolidRun 1U 2 node Arm Server
        
       Author : cameron_b
       Score  : 78 points
       Date   : 2021-03-01 12:46 UTC (10 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.servethehome.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.servethehome.com)
        
       | usr1106 wrote:
       | The ARM "server" space for the hobbyist willing to spend < 10
       | EUR/USD a month is a bit of a sad story.
       | 
       | Scaleway had their nicely priced C1 instances. Well, they still
       | have and they run pretty solidly in my (limited) experience. But
       | they have not updated the kernel for ages. It seems pretty clear
       | that they will shut them down sooner or later without any
       | successor.
       | 
       | Is there any other comparable offering out there?
       | 
       | (I intentionally mix owning and renting a server. Aren't we in
       | the age of the cloud...)
        
         | yjftsjthsd-h wrote:
         | Honestly, is there anything _at_ 10 USD /EUR per month? I mean,
         | yes, I'd rather pay the same as I do for cheap Digital Ocean or
         | whatever, but outside of AWS options are thin even if you _are_
         | willing to pay a little bit more.
        
           | usr1106 wrote:
           | > Honestly, is there anything at 10 USD/EUR per month?
           | 
           | In case you didn't know, a Scaleway C1 is
           | 
           | * 2.99 per month, billed hourly
           | 
           | * 1.00 per month for the network (unlimited) and you can drop
           | that if you have other machines in the same datacenter and do
           | not need direct internet access
           | 
           | * ~ 1.00 per month for VAT (I guess that's 0,00 if you are
           | outside of the EU)
           | 
           | Of course they are not for high performance computing, but
           | there are enough use cases where the performance is prefectly
           | good enough.
           | 
           | I use them for ssh jumpboxes and find their latency better
           | than AWS EC2, which is much more expensive.
        
           | kingosticks wrote:
           | Technically you could get a Raspberry Pi at
           | https://www.mythic-beasts.com/order/rpi for PS7.25 per month
           | but I'm not sure if this is what you had in mind. It's not
           | exactly a server and it's not going to win any prizes for
           | performance.
        
             | selfhoster11 wrote:
             | For the type of workloads a Pi is capable of, and given the
             | low capex of setting one up, it only makes sense to pay for
             | this if you have extremely rubbish broadband at home.
        
               | csunbird wrote:
               | I agree. for 7.45 per month, you can just buy your own
               | RPi.
        
             | usr1106 wrote:
             | Yes, something like this. No IPv4 might be inconvienent at
             | times. The price is nearly twice as much as a scaleway C1,
             | not sure how the specs really compare.
             | 
             | What does Brexit mean for EU customers? Do we slip paying
             | VAT now? 24% in my case.
        
           | TacticalCoder wrote:
           | > Honestly, is there anything at 10 USD/EUR per month?
           | 
           | Well you can have an Intel Atom N2800 / 4GB DDR3 / 2Tb HDD
           | dedicated server at OVH for 8 EUR / month.
           | 
           | And, like all their entry level servers, it's 100 Mbps max,
           | which really hurts when you've got fiber at home.
           | 
           | But in some cases they can be convenient.
           | 
           | They have a lot of different offers at various prices
           | (Kimsufi / So you start / OVH: all the same company
           | basically).
        
             | yjftsjthsd-h wrote:
             | Ah, sorry, I meant ARM
        
           | keithlfrost wrote:
           | My current selection is https://contabo.com/en/vps
        
             | StillBored wrote:
             | Thanks! I usually look for machines with unlimited transfer
             | because otherwise it seems like they are trying to make all
             | their money on transit.
             | 
             | Those VPS, while limited, actually come with what I would
             | consider a fairly reasonable monthly quota (32T) for a low
             | cost plan.
        
             | usr1106 wrote:
             | The price sounds good for the spec. But what do I do with 8
             | GB RAM and 200 GB disk to run an irc client, a minimal Web
             | server and maybe an ssh jumpbox? They happily run with 1 -
             | 2 GB RAM and 10 GB disk.
             | 
             | On the non-quantitive side I really prefer to run ARM over
             | ugly Intel.
        
         | tecleandor wrote:
         | C1 and C2 are EOLed. I read somewhere (here?) that their design
         | was problematic and the maintenance was expensive :(
        
           | m01 wrote:
           | Apparently they emailed customers, see here: https://www.redd
           | it.com/r/selfhosted/comments/g11uuj/scaleway...
        
             | usr1106 wrote:
             | Yeah, C2 (ARM64 virtual) is no longer available. Not sure
             | whether all existing machine have really been shut down. I
             | haven't had any.
             | 
             | C1 (ARM32 dedicated) was still available recently when I
             | checked last time. Existing customers' instances are
             | definitely still running, used one today.
        
           | zimpenfish wrote:
           | Which is a shame because I really like my C1 - although
           | they're not planning on deleting the C1 instances for now
           | (according to support a couple of months ago.)
        
             | depingus wrote:
             | I had a C1 that ran well enough for my usage but eventually
             | had to move to a DEV1-S for Wireguard (old kernel on the
             | C1).
             | 
             | I just wish they would let me run Alpine Linux on the
             | DEV1-S. Its available for the more expensive DEV1
             | instances, but they obviously don't want me taking full
             | advantage of the meager resources the DEV1-S offers.
        
               | usr1106 wrote:
               | Can't you just install it yourself? (Haven't worked with
               | DEV1-S yet, so I don't know.)
               | 
               | Of course if you do it under time is money principle
               | that's a trainwreck compared to using their image. But if
               | you do it for the fun of it...
        
         | phamilton wrote:
         | t4g line from AWS is in that range
        
         | ksec wrote:
         | >Scaleway had their nicely priced C1 instances....
         | 
         | They were far too ahead of its time that didn't make any sense
         | ( It isn't a pun against their Tag Line ). Once AWS Graviton 2
         | has the whole ecosystem ready ScaleWay could then enjoy the
         | benefits. To kick start ARM on server space ScaleWay is biting
         | off more than they can chew. The same answer to people ask why
         | doesn't DO do Edge Worker / Container.
        
       | kev009 wrote:
       | There's no mention of OOB support. You could of course hook up
       | something to the reset pins and serial port, but this places it
       | categorically behind low end x86-64 servers.
        
       | walrus01 wrote:
       | No info on cost, and no info on operating system support.
       | 
       | Anything that's COM Express is produced in very small quantities
       | and is very expensive. I'll be shocked if it isn't 3 to 4x the
       | cost of a single socket 8-core Ryzen that runs circles around it
       | in performance.
        
         | cameron_b wrote:
         | The high-speed networking drivers are a several proposed
         | patches away from being up-streamed into upcoming kernel
         | releases. Currently SolidRun says Debian and Ubuntu work, I've
         | heard of Arch working with a little setup.
         | 
         | the SolidRun Article on their Systemsready work:
         | 
         | https://www.solid-run.com/news/how-honeycomb-lx2k-and-system...
        
         | snuxoll wrote:
         | $750, right on SolidRun's website. Given the specs it's a fair
         | price, although a 8-core Ryzen CPU would indeed run circles
         | around 16 Cortex A72 cores.
        
           | dragontamer wrote:
           | 1U rack-form cases are pretty expensive actually. That's
           | really the main issue with racks: you spend a substantial
           | amount of money on just the form factor. 1U is very small: so
           | the fans are moving fast and are very loud.
           | 
           | Its a form-factor specifically designed for server rooms:
           | where you put ear-plugs in before entering the room. The
           | money spent on the racks / physical infrastructure is small
           | compared to the ongoing costs of actually powering or cooling
           | the room
        
             | walrus01 wrote:
             | Absolutely agreed.
             | 
             | Not just that but 1U servers also use a fair percentage of
             | their wattage moving air with 40mm fans. The hotter the TDP
             | of all the electronics in your server is, the more air you
             | need to move. 40x28mm high RPM 12VDC fans are quite
             | inefficient in terms of a ratio of cubic meters of air
             | moved per hour vs their watt-hours consumed.
             | 
             | In a 2U chassis if you can find a way to pack in multiple
             | motherboards and use 60mm height fans the possible
             | efficiencies are much greater.
             | 
             | If you look at the 'wall of fans' in the center of
             | something like a Dell 1U dual socket system, there's eight
             | or ten fans each of which if running at full speed can be
             | an 8W to 10W load. This is necessary because you might have
             | two 120W TDP CPUs under passive heatsinks that need a LOT
             | of air pushed past them.
             | 
             | Additionally a stack of 30 or 40 1U servers each with its
             | own discrete 110-240VAC input, DC output power supply is
             | quite inefficient in large numbers. A fair bit of wattage
             | is wasted to spinning the 40mm fan in the power supply and
             | in the densely packed AC to DC conversion circuitry. This
             | is one reason why things like the FB Open Compute platform
             | servers are sometimes 1.5RU high (so they can use 60mm
             | fans), and use a single large AC-to-DC power supply that
             | can take in 277VAC (or even 480VAC!), and output 12VDC to
             | 48VDC to each motherboard in the same rack cabinet.
        
               | dragontamer wrote:
               | In general, 1U and even 2U seems very dense to me. I
               | think that 4U is the typical density that a typical
               | office building could support.
               | 
               | Even 1-node in 2U is definitely getting into 220V
               | dedicated outlets and dedicated buildings. 1U or 1/2U per
               | node certainly exists, but you need to start spending a
               | good amount of thought on power and cooling to actually
               | support that kind of infrastructure.
               | 
               | -----------
               | 
               | > If you look at the 'wall of fans' in something like a
               | Dell 1U dual socket system, there's eight or ten fans
               | each of which if running at full speed can be an 8W to
               | 10W load. This is necessary because you might have two
               | 120W TDP CPUs under passive heatsinks that need a LOT of
               | air pushed past them.
               | 
               | That's possibly an advantage here. ARM's are known for
               | lower power consumption, so maybe the fans can run slower
               | (and therefore draw less power). I'd have to think about
               | these specs more though...
               | 
               | A 2-node x 1U ARM server might work out if these ARM
               | servers have very low power requirements in a very strong
               | "horizontal scale-out" kind of setup.
               | 
               | But its still hard for me to think exactly what the use
               | case would be. An I/O based server would probably be
               | better in 4U: for 50 to 100 Hard Drives on a beefier 4U
               | Xeon or 4U EPYC chassis.
               | 
               | So its one of those "what's the use" products. Under
               | typical circumstances, a 2U or 4U beefy server split up
               | into multiple VMs probably is a superior architecture.
               | 
               | But having more "tiny" physical machines that are mostly
               | independent (maybe sharing a PSU, but otherwise a fully
               | independent node) for "bare metal hosting" has some
               | benefits over VMs. I mean... do you want a single dual-
               | socket 128-core EPYC in 4U or do you want 8x16 ARMs in
               | 1/2U each.
               | 
               | I dunno, I think the 128-core dual-socket 4U EPYC is
               | gonna be better for cooling, power, and VM-flexibility.
               | At least, that's my instinct. Unless you know that you
               | absolutely want individual non-VM nodes.
               | 
               | ------
               | 
               | EDIT: The I/O options discussed here are exceptional. If
               | low CPU-power but high I/O is needed (more SPF+ ports or
               | whatever), then that's probably the ARM's advantage over
               | a single dual-socket EPYC system.
               | 
               | EDIT2: 16x A72 seems weak. But 10Gbps SFP+ x4? That's...
               | actually really really good. Might be hell to actually
               | write software that takes advantage of all that bandwidth
               | though.
        
               | walrus01 wrote:
               | The part with four 10Gbps ports is nice. I wish there
               | were more mini-itx x86-64 server boards with such. The
               | vast majority of mini-itx boards are not designed for
               | front-to-back server airflow, and are intended/marketed
               | more for consumer enthusiast small gaming PCs and stuff.
               | 
               | Ordinarily in a x86-64 intel or AMD chipset server if you
               | wanted 4 x 10Gbps SFP+, in addition to whatever NICs are
               | on the motherboard, you'll end up using one of the Intel
               | chipset, low-profile PCI-Express interface cards in a
               | slot. Using some 1U long depth Dells as an example you
               | might get a motherboard that has 2 x 1000BaseT and 2 x
               | 10GbE SFP+ in daughtercard plugged into the motherboard,
               | and then you'd have two or three low-profile PCIE slots
               | to add more NICs. Or some combination like one full-
               | height size PCIE slot and one low profile slot.
        
             | snuxoll wrote:
             | The $750 is just for the board. Four SFP+ ports, some
             | onboard SATA ports, an open PCIe 3.0 x8 port and a 16-core
             | Cortex A72 CPU on a mini-itx compatible board is still a
             | decent price given it's not a mass-market product. Hell,
             | development kits for many ARM SOCs cost more than that for
             | way less.
             | 
             | That said, you are absolutely correct that rackmount
             | equipment is expensive by it's form-factor - but given this
             | is a mini-itx board clearly not designed for use in a
             | rackmounted chassis (given clearance for CPU cooling and
             | orientation of the memory modules) it's not a factor here.
        
           | rjsw wrote:
           | The $750 is for one board, the case in the article holds two
           | of them.
        
       | mobilio wrote:
       | I'm curious what is price for that server? Or just for one node.
        
         | paxswill wrote:
         | You can get the board for $750, but it says 8 weeks shipping:
         | https://shop.solid-run.com/product/SRLX216S00D00GE064H08CH/
         | 
         | It's mini-ITX, so there's a pile of cases you can use for it if
         | you want.
        
           | flatiron wrote:
           | looks to me like bang/buck here is still going to be amd. you
           | could put together a very nice amd board for $750
        
             | MartijnBraam wrote:
             | It's very interesting for certain usecases. Ordered one of
             | those boards to run as a buildserver for postmarketOS.
        
             | trevorishere wrote:
             | Agreed. Unless you're concerned with power consumption, I'm
             | not sure where this server fits, especially with an A72
             | core which is a few years old.
             | 
             | I'd love to have one of these to replace ODroid N2+ just
             | for a rack mount solution, but not at that price.
        
           | walrus01 wrote:
           | As a design to put into a 1U case that location for the CPU
           | on the daughterboard above the motherboard is really
           | problematic, because it leaves almost no headroom for a
           | proper passive heatsink.
           | 
           | In a well engineered 1U server setup you want the motherboard
           | to be as low to the bottom of the chassis as possible, then
           | the CPU in its socket, and a big passive heatsink (either
           | aluminum or skived copper) occupying almost all the rest of
           | the vertical room inside the case. The server should be like
           | a front to back wind tunnel where the 40mm fans are moving
           | air through the CPU heatsink(s) without the need for separate
           | fans on top of the CPUs themselves.
           | 
           | The fan unit on top of that is really problematic from a
           | above-the-fan vertical clearance and airflow perspective.
           | 
           | Additionally the SODIMM slots are blocking a typical airflow
           | path from the front edge of the motherboard towards the rear.
           | More normally a server motherboard for 1U would not use
           | laptop size RAM, but would use normal size DIMMs oriented in
           | such a way that they're parallel to the path of airflow.
           | 
           | (disclosure: I used to work for a server manufacturer and was
           | responsible for procuring components from Taiwanese vendors,
           | and designing new generations of 1U single and dual socket
           | boxes to custom specs)
        
             | cameron_b wrote:
             | Its clear that the COM express carrier wasn't initially
             | designed for this application. SolidRun has simply gotten
             | enough requests for help solving rack density questions
             | that they put together an answer.
        
             | snuxoll wrote:
             | It _is_ advertised as a workstation board, so the lack of
             | design considerations for a rack mounted chassis isn't
             | surprising. That said, with the power draw of the entire
             | board a 2U chassis with a standard circular fan on the CPU
             | and modest chassis airflow is likely to be sufficient.
        
       | ojn wrote:
       | Unfortunately a low-signal article and announcement: No release
       | date, no pricing, nothing in-depth.
        
         | nine_k wrote:
         | At least, the form factor, and the interfaces: 4x 10G SFP+, 4x
         | SATA, not bad. Looks like a compact but solid board for CPU-
         | light loads, likely comparable to boards based on Intel's
         | C37xx. What made me sad is that the memory is not ECC
         | apparently :(
         | 
         | No estimated price and no performance figures still.
        
       | emelinad09 wrote:
       | Ehrlicher und sehr interessanter Blog uber Online-Einnahmen
       | https://mr.bet/at/game/view/demo/mystic-mirror .
        
       | yjftsjthsd-h wrote:
       | It's a pity that the whole point seems to be hitting the middle
       | price point but there's no actual pricing info available. Still,
       | once they get closer to shipping this could be interesting to
       | watch. Anything to get better competition in "normal" server
       | space:)
        
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