[HN Gopher] Use Touch ID for Sudo on Mac
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Use Touch ID for Sudo on Mac
        
       Author : syck
       Score  : 410 points
       Date   : 2021-03-01 12:31 UTC (10 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (davidwalsh.name)
 (TXT) w3m dump (davidwalsh.name)
        
       | zuppy wrote:
       | Does anybody know if there's a solution for keychain password
       | copy too? I have a very complicated vpn password that I change
       | often (so I don't remember it), but each day, when connecting to
       | the vpn, I have to open keychain and type my user password to get
       | the vpn password. I couldn't find a way to use touch id for that.
        
         | nikisweeting wrote:
         | You can use your power button as a shortcut to autofill it from
         | 1password or another password manager:
         | 
         | https://docs.sweeting.me/s/power-button-password-manager-sho...
        
         | hannibalhorn wrote:
         | Kinda close - I use Hammerspoon to setup a hotkey that runs
         | security(1) via popen to retrieve and paste passwords into some
         | apps.                   /usr/bin/security find-internet-
         | password -wgs mydomain.com
         | 
         | It requires the keychain to be unlocked, which can be handled
         | with touch ID, and you can have it confirm with a "are you
         | sure" dialog box every time.
         | 
         | If you really wanted to be prompted for a fingerprint basically
         | every time, you could probably use a separate keychain that
         | locks after 1 minute of inactivity.
        
         | dylan604 wrote:
         | Out of curiousity why do you change a complex password
         | regularly? Is this something your evilCorp policy forces you to
         | do, or something you do out of habit because of something you
         | read on the internet, or even rote habit from something picked
         | up at previous evilCorp policies?
        
           | zuppy wrote:
           | The evilItDepartmentPolicy forces me, but I would do it by my
           | own will (less often) too, if not forced. I have acces on a
           | lot of sensitive places and I don't want to risk it.
        
       | dustinmoris wrote:
       | > Since you expect to be be typing in a command line, moving your
       | finger to touch the key is probably not very efficient.
       | 
       | Why is this not very efficient? Isn't moving my finger to touch
       | the key equivalent to a single key stroke? How is a single key
       | stroke less efficient then many key strokes?
        
         | jedimastert wrote:
         | Admittedly I've never used Mac's implementation but I could see
         | a slowdown if it takes longer for the fingerprint to register
         | that it takes to type your password (which is probably the
         | fastest combination of characters you can type)
        
           | wtetzner wrote:
           | Normally I can type my password faster than pretty much any
           | other activity. But on my MBP (with the terrible keyboard) I
           | never know if all of my keypresses registered (or if some of
           | them were duplicated).
        
           | austhrow743 wrote:
           | If you're touch iding everything you normally password for,
           | you can afford to have a less fast to type password.
        
           | dustinmoris wrote:
           | From my experience it's much faster. Just the tiny fraction
           | of a second that it takes me to look at my caps lock key to
           | verify that it's not on takes longer than my fingerprint scan
           | and at that point I haven't even typed a single letter yet :)
           | 
           | Also it's arguably not the fastest combination of characters
           | I can type, because my password is not "test1234" and I don't
           | get much opportunity to type it at all anymore since
           | everything can be unlocked via TouchID except the terminal,
           | or so I thought at least :)
        
             | wtetzner wrote:
             | > Just the tiny fraction of a second that it takes me to
             | look at my caps lock key to verify that it's not on
             | 
             | I always just re-assign the caps-lock key to CTRL.
        
               | robertlutece wrote:
               | CTRL when used as a modifier, escape on its own
        
           | vincentmarle wrote:
           | > it takes longer for the fingerprint to register than it
           | takes to type your password
           | 
           | You mean the black void where there's no feedback on how many
           | characters you typed? I always have to write my password a
           | couple of times to get it right.
        
         | garettmd wrote:
         | I think it depends a lot on how long your password is, as well.
        
       | isatty wrote:
       | Interesting, I hacked a small pam module together 4 years ago for
       | the first generation of touch id enabled macbooks[0] and I wonder
       | if pam_tid.so was always present and I just missed it. D'oh!
       | 
       | [0] https://github.com/spaghetti-/pam-touchid
        
         | sigjuice wrote:
         | You missed it by just a couple of months or so :)
         | 
         | pam_modules-159.50.4/modules/pam_tid/pam_tid.c appeared in
         | macOS 10.12.4
         | https://opensource.apple.com/release/macos-10124.html
         | 
         | And macOS 10.12.4 was posted on Mar 27, 2017, according to
         | https://support.apple.com/kb/DL1911
        
       | softawre wrote:
       | Doesn't seem to work with iTerm
        
       | k_sze wrote:
       | What happens when your Mac has multiple user accounts, some are
       | admins and some are not, but all have Touch ID set up? Would that
       | inadvertently give sudo power to users who shouldn't have it?
       | 
       | (I don't have a Touch ID Mac to find out.)
        
         | _joel wrote:
         | No, it's bound to the user requesting sudo access.
        
       | nikisweeting wrote:
       | You can also use the Touch ID / power button as a shortcut to
       | autofill a 1Password password:
       | 
       | https://docs.sweeting.me/s/power-button-password-manager-sho...
        
       | soheil wrote:
       | You also need to remove the line below, otherwise, you'll be
       | asked to authenticate twice using both methods:
       | auth       sufficient     pam_smartcard.so
        
         | djrogers wrote:
         | Only if you currently have a smartcard configured. If not, you
         | won't be.
        
       | oezi wrote:
       | Similarly for WSL2 using Windows Hello:
       | 
       | https://github.com/nullpo-head/WSL-Hello-sudo
        
       | superkuh wrote:
       | You still have to provide a password. Fingerprints are not
       | passwords. They are usernames.
        
         | lenocinor wrote:
         | Technically you are correct and I used to complain about this
         | myself for years. But it seems like at least for consumers
         | they're often content to have authentication equal
         | authorization so I feel like mostly this battle has been lost
         | in the consumer space.
        
         | samatman wrote:
         | This is correct only in the instance that a biometric is stored
         | on the host.
         | 
         | In TouchID, the biometric is stored only in the secure enclave,
         | and is used to generate a private key signature, which serves
         | as the password.
         | 
         | Additionally, it's always possible to reset TouchID to an
         | unauthenticated state, where it will refuse a fingerprint read
         | until the password is typed in.
         | 
         | There's no sense cargo-culting this bit of conventional wisdom
         | without understanding where it comes from, and what sort of
         | attacks it is meant to prevent.
        
         | andr0x wrote:
         | huh? fingerprints are not 'usernames' (you don't just provide a
         | 'username' for an applepay authorization for example).
         | 
         | and yes, adding this in you do _not_ have to type out your sudo
         | password and can grant permissions using only touch id.
        
       | bogomipz wrote:
       | Does anyone know if similar can similar be done for Keychain
       | access?
        
       | wyuenho wrote:
       | I wish there was a way to use the regular password dialog to sudo
       | on older macs, and persist that credential just like the touch ID
       | pam module does.
        
       | ponyous wrote:
       | Next step: SSH automatically paste password from
       | Keychain/OnePass/LastPass after Touch ID.
        
         | metafunctor wrote:
         | Use sekey: https://github.com/sekey/sekey
        
         | _joel wrote:
         | Don't use passwords in SSH login at all and add your private
         | passphrases to the keychain to unlock the key. The keychain can
         | be unlocked with touch id
        
         | ddalex wrote:
         | How does SSH knows my password is **** ??!
        
       | Galanwe wrote:
       | As a side note, there's also the wonderful pam_yubiko module that
       | allows you to require touching your yubikey to sudo or login.
        
         | tomxor wrote:
         | pam_yubico yes.
         | 
         | You can also use this to secure SSHD on servers by delegating
         | to PAM with keyboard-interactive.
         | 
         | I'm waiting for U2F OpenSSH support to trickle down to stable
         | distros but in the meantime pam_yubico is pretty damn good...
         | not to mention you don't have to worry about terminal support
         | since it relies on the yubikey OTP emulating a keyboard.
        
         | sdoering wrote:
         | wow... thanks for that. Didn't know that. Will need to read on
         | that as well...
        
         | sammorrowdrums wrote:
         | Yes, use this on my Linux machine. Works seamlessly.
        
       | ivrrimum wrote:
       | Doesn't work on MacOS bigSur
        
       | mdavidn wrote:
       | Obligatory reminder: Don't run your text editor as root. Instead,
       | try sudo -e /etc/pam.d/sudo.
        
       | Simplicitas wrote:
       | Author admits 'probably not very efficient', but still a great
       | SHORT article to consider something interesting. Thanks
        
         | nindalf wrote:
         | I'm not sure about the "not efficient" part either. My password
         | is 10+ characters, random alphanumeric with special characters.
         | I sometimes mistype it. Whereas I'm yet to make a mistake
         | tapping my finger on the finger print reader.
        
           | macintux wrote:
           | My current passphrase for work is 55 characters, so yeah, I
           | could definitely see using this hack if I had to use sudo
           | often.
           | 
           | (I'll probably shorten it soon, but it's a slightly mangled
           | lyric from a popular song, so it's easy enough to remember.)
        
       | sigjuice wrote:
       | What type of work or activity on macOS requires sudo repeatedly
       | enough that it needs to be automated in this way? I mainly need
       | sudo for the occasional dmesg or for adjusting routes after
       | activating my VPN for work.
        
         | lucideer wrote:
         | Not that I install new software all that often, but macports
         | requires sudo for quite a lot of operations.
        
       | nunez wrote:
       | Add this to your .bash_profile so that you always have Touch ID
       | and Apple Watch support for sudo:
       | https://gist.github.com/carlosonunez/5b67afb9fd720bef6385e94...
        
       | okl wrote:
       | I thought a fingerprint is to be used like a username and not as
       | password?
        
       | bitlevel wrote:
       | The article will not allow sudo changes on Big Sur - at least,
       | not without changing permissions of the sudo file first:
       | 1. sudo -Si       2. chmod 644 /etc/pam.d/sudo       3. vi
       | /etc/pam.d/sudo       4. Add the 'Auth         sufficient
       | pam_tid.so' line       5. chmod 444 /etc/pam.d/sudo       6. ...
       | 7. Profit!
       | 
       | Very handy tip though, thanks!
        
         | philsnow wrote:
         | s/vi/visudo/
         | 
         | visudo will lint the resulting file and (should) reject the
         | change if it would break your system.
        
           | ArchOversight wrote:
           | This isn't modifying the sudoers file, it is modifying the
           | pam file.
        
         | ivrrimum wrote:
         | Still didn't work for me
        
         | cprecioso wrote:
         | I usually just `sudo nano` it, works fine
        
           | mkskm wrote:
           | `sudo --edit` also works
        
         | mega_dingus wrote:
         | Or when using vi, just use :wq!
        
           | cyberge99 wrote:
           | shift Z Z is faster.
        
             | malobre wrote:
             | Here comes the `:x!` clan
        
             | rectang wrote:
             | [offtopic] zoinks fam that's some next-level bikeshedding
        
             | asidiali wrote:
             | Debatable and depends on length of time shortcut has been
             | in use. I can type :wq like a madman. My finger can slide
             | straight from w to q, whereas with double-z, I have to pick
             | my finger up and put it back down. So much movement! What
             | next, you want me to run a marathon?
        
               | exikyut wrote:
               | I guess it's a learned dexterity thing.
               | 
               | :wq = <move finger of right hand to Shift> <depress
               | Shift> <move finger of left hand to ;> <press-release ;>
               | <release Shift and move finger of left hand and press w
               | and q>
               | 
               | ZZ = <move 2nd finger of left hand to Shift> <depress
               | Shift> <move index finger of left hand to z> <press-
               | release z twice>
               | 
               | As someone with mildly poor dexterity (and I don't touch-
               | type with all my fingers, I mostly use my index fingers),
               | the second approach looks somewhat more interesting to
               | test.
        
               | asidiali wrote:
               | Interesting, I will add flexibility too, or maybe hand
               | size. I find it slightly uncomfortable to hit shift and Z
               | simultaneously with solely my left hand, so I hit shift
               | with my right and z with my left. Alternatively, I will
               | simultaneously hit shift + colon with my right, and then
               | do the wq slide as mentioned above. Nice that all hands
               | can be accommodated :)
        
               | toyg wrote:
               | That's all over the place from a touchtype perspective.
               | 2nd finger? That's a pinkie. And you're supposed to use
               | modifier keys from the opposite hand when available.
               | 
               | So it should be <move right pinkie to hold right Shift>
               | <move left pinkie to hit Z twice>.
               | 
               | I honestly didn't know about ZZ, seems very convenient.
               | :wq! on a qwerty forces the pinkie to travel all the way
               | up to the top row, which is hell. On my home keyboard I
               | use a layer for special characters, which helps, but
               | still I guess I'll stick to ZZ from now on.
        
               | nxpnsv wrote:
               | This is going to save you seconds, every year!
        
               | Florin_Andrei wrote:
               | You are all wrong. The Emacs shortcuts are far superior.
               | /s
        
               | ed25519FUUU wrote:
               | I've typed in :wq! so often I sometimes accidentally type
               | it in when trying to do things like close browser tabs or
               | exit programs.
        
           | [deleted]
        
         | zaphirplane wrote:
         | I don't get it, the article shows it in 2 steps why the 5 step
         | verbosity??
        
           | philote wrote:
           | It seems in Big Sur the file you need to edit is not
           | writable. So you need to make it writable first, edit it, and
           | then change permissions back to read-only.
        
             | angulardragon03 wrote:
             | This doesn't seem to be strictly true - the two-line
             | solution worked exactly as expected for me on 11.2.1. I
             | used nano instead of vi (personal preference), but it
             | worked nonetheless.
        
               | bitlevel wrote:
               | Maybe that's the difference. I was using vi, and not
               | nano.
               | 
               | Have confirmed that using 'sudo nano /etc/pam.d/sudo'
               | works fine.
               | 
               | No need for the verbosity when nano works I guess. :S
        
           | [deleted]
        
         | helsinkiandrew wrote:
         | :w!
        
           | toyg wrote:
           | :wq!
        
       | MatekCopatek wrote:
       | Was pleasantly surprised when Gnome on latest Fedora enabled this
       | out of the box simply because the fingerprint reader on my laptop
       | was supported.
        
       | soheil wrote:
       | Really surprising that Apple didn't include this by default.
        
       | float4 wrote:
       | Touch ID is awesome, but I semi-regularly use the APFS snapshot
       | rollback feature and it erases my finger prints.
       | 
       | Does anyone know why this happens? I was very happy when I found
       | out APFS is CoW but it kind of sucks that restoring an old
       | snapshot apparently erases the secure enclave in my M1 chip.
        
         | dkonofalski wrote:
         | More than likely because that's a security risk. If it didn't
         | do this, an attacker could likely roll back your machine to
         | before you had Touch ID set up and then roll it forward again
         | to access your data, now without a Touch ID restriction.
        
         | wil421 wrote:
         | The system will notice changes and disable certain features. I
         | noticed my Apple Pay stopped working after a restore and there
         | are additional settings that can turn off Apple Pay. Such as
         | allowing boot from an external drive.
        
       | egberts wrote:
       | no, No, no, noooo, please, God. Nooooooooooo.
       | 
       | Biometric are non-revocable.
        
         | dustinmoris wrote:
         | Yes, it's terrible. Every time I walk through passport control
         | and the person validates my identity through a biometric check
         | by looking at my face and looking at my passport I cringe and
         | tell them that it's terrible and they should instead let me
         | type a password.
        
           | egberts wrote:
           | for things that you own, not for government-owned biometric.
        
       | soheil wrote:
       | You might need to make the file writable before editing it:
       | sudo chmod +w /etc/pam.d/sudo
        
       | nneonneo wrote:
       | I just have a setuid root sudo binary (compiled from sudo-
       | touchid: https://github.com/mattrajca/sudo-touchid) in my home
       | folder ~/bin. This has worked a treat across OS updates, without
       | hacking PAM stuff. It's extremely convenient and has probably
       | saved me cumulative hours in typing out my long password :)
        
       | cprecioso wrote:
       | This is amazing -- but every. single. update. disables it again
       | 
       | Why does the sudo file not persist between updates? This case is
       | quite minor for personal computers, but what about companies that
       | log in with yubikeys or smart cards? Do they have to reconfigure
       | after every update too?
        
         | amrrs wrote:
         | Did this work on iTerm?
        
           | zzzmarcus wrote:
           | Yes
        
         | m463 wrote:
         | Apple needs a solution to this.
         | 
         | People getting their pf rules thrown away each time - it is
         | like unlocking your front door each time you run the vacuum
         | cleaner.
        
         | beyondcompute wrote:
         | I've just added this to my .bash_profile:
         | enable-sudo-touchid() {         sudo sed -i -e '1s;^;auth
         | sufficient     pam_tid.so\n;' /etc/pam.d/sudo       }
         | 
         | But probably automating the check (if the automated checker has
         | the correct permission) would not be that hard.
        
           | jmarcher wrote:
           | A step further so you don't have to think about enabling it:
           | sudo() {         unset -f sudo         if [[ "$(uname)" ==
           | 'Darwin' ]] && ! grep 'pam_tid.so' /etc/pam.d/sudo --silent;
           | then           sudo sed -i -e '1s;^;auth       sufficient
           | pam_tid.so\n;' /etc/pam.d/sudo         fi         sudo "$@"
           | }
        
             | mkskm wrote:
             | Here's another function in Fish that incorporates the other
             | suggestions offered in this thread.
             | function sudo --description "Execute a command as another
             | user."             if [ (uname) = "Darwin" ]
             | set --local needle
             | "^auth\b.*\bpam_\(reattach\|tid\|watchid\)\.so\$"
             | if ! grep $needle --silent /etc/pam.d/sudo && \
             | [ -f /usr/local/lib/pam/pam_reattach.so* ] && \
             | [ -f /usr/local/lib/pam/pam_watchid.so\* ]
             | command sudo sh -c "                 cat << EOF
             | >/etc/pam.d/sudo         auth optional pam_reattach.so
             | auth sufficient pam_tid.so         auth sufficient
             | pam_watchid.so         \$(grep -v '$needle'
             | /etc/pam.d/sudo)         EOF"; or return $status
             | end             end             command sudo $argv
             | end
        
             | beyondcompute wrote:
             | Thanks! That looks good!
             | 
             | Thought on the second thought, I'll continue to use the
             | more "manual" method for now. As it gives me more control
             | and it would be easier to switch off when touch ID sudo
             | will be supported more officially.
        
           | ed25519FUUU wrote:
           | The hard part with these kinds of fixes is that they evaluate
           | every time you create a new shell or tab, which for me is
           | very frequently.
           | 
           | It's already starting to add noticeable latency from all of
           | the various eval statements in there.
           | 
           | Edit: I missed it's a function def which should be fine speed
           | wise.
        
             | fwip wrote:
             | That's a function definition, the only overhead will be
             | parsing, not evaluation.
        
           | ethanpil wrote:
           | Why not run a launchd script on boot that does the update?
           | Does it need to be in the .bashrc?
        
         | jeffbee wrote:
         | This is a very macOS problem. Why does it reset every
         | preference on updates? The one that kills me is wake-on-lan,
         | that gets turned back on regardless. Hate!
        
           | derefr wrote:
           | Because, like ChromeOS/CoreOS, modern macOS now does image-
           | based updates.
           | 
           | A macOS update isn't "whatever was previously on your OS
           | volume, plus arbitrary patch X"; rather it's "a new, fresh OS
           | disk image, written to a separate APFS volume, with a fixed
           | SHA, with update transfer-size optimized by _composing_ said
           | image partially from files in your current OS, but only in
           | such a way that the volume will still hash the same in the
           | end."
           | 
           | (In many ways, macOS's update system now reuses the logic
           | from iOS's IPSW firmware-update system. You can even now
           | download macOS updates from Apple _as_ IPSW files, and then
           | use Apple Configurator to push them to macOS devices.)
           | 
           | Unlike ChromeOS/CoreOS, _after_ the first-round SHA
           | verification of the volume, macOS will then _patch_ the new
           | OS-base-image volume with certain files from your current OS-
           | base-image volume, if 1. they're distinct from the ones it
           | expected to be there, and 2. they appear on a whitelist of
           | known-safe files.
           | 
           | If any of this patching happens, the OS volume's metadata
           | tree will then be re-hashed, and the new hash will be blessed
           | by the volume-signing utility.
           | 
           | (If you've seen a "Recovered Files" directory on your desktop
           | after an update, and it's contained a "foo.system_default"
           | file, that's a copy of the file that macOS _would have_
           | composed into the OS volume if it hadn't found your known-
           | safe customized file to use instead.  /etc/shells is a usual
           | trigger.)
           | 
           |  _Some_ preference files in  /System/Library are known-safe;
           | but others aren't. It's a whitelist, and it's a conservative
           | one.
           | 
           | Preference files in /Library live in the user volume, not the
           | OS volume, and so will never be wiped. This is why most of
           | the "trivial" preferences stick around.
           | 
           | Note that by "known-safe" here, I don't mean "can't be
           | customized to malicious ends." This isn't a security thing.
           | It's an ABI stability thing. These files are safe in that
           | they're known to _have the same ABI format between OS
           | versions_ , and so keeping a customized version of them
           | around won't confuse newer versions of system daemons.
           | 
           | It's about the same as if Linux had a set of known-safe DKMS
           | modules that use interfaces that the kernel intentionally
           | doesn't change between releases, such that the kernel module
           | files composed from those DKMS modules could be reused by the
           | new kernel without requiring decompilation, rather than being
           | tossed out at every single kernel update.
        
             | curt15 wrote:
             | >Unlike ChromeOS/CoreOS, after the first-round SHA
             | verification of the volume, macOS will then patch the new
             | OS-base-image volume with certain files from your current
             | OS-base-image volume, if 1. they're distinct from the ones
             | it expected to be there, and 2. they appear on a whitelist
             | of known-safe files.
             | 
             | Red Hat CoreOS (and other Linux systems managed with
             | OSTree, such as Fedora Silverblue) now do something similar
             | by merging the current /etc directory with the "upstream"
             | version.
        
               | IgorPartola wrote:
               | Debian based systems use dpkg which has the option of
               | confold and confnew. Difference is that the default is to
               | ask the user what to do and unattended upgrades default
               | to confold.
        
             | jwiley wrote:
             | This is great info I've never seen referenced elsewhere. It
             | would be awesome if you would write a blog post explaining
             | this in more detail!
        
             | IgorPartola wrote:
             | This is an excellent explanation. One last piece to
             | clarify: there is no way to edit the known-safe list, is
             | there? And/or there is no way to add a script after the
             | update process that copies files like this, correct?
        
             | jeffbee wrote:
             | The thing that doesn't make sense here is that macOS
             | discards randomly your settings, but it is also the only OS
             | I use that regularly gets in a fucked up state where
             | settings have to be nuked. I mean, here we are in year 37
             | of the mac and people are still zapping their PRAMs. The
             | only improvement is you don't have to physically pull out
             | the battery.
        
               | chipotle_coyote wrote:
               | Purely anecdotal, of course, but:
               | 
               | - If macOS is the only OS that you use regularly that
               | gets in a fucked up state, then either you're not using
               | Windows or it's gotten a lot better in the last few
               | years. :) (I mean, it undeniably _has_ gotten better, but
               | I have Windows-using acquaintances who still kvetch about
               | this issue pretty regularly.)
               | 
               | - I've been using Macs since 1999 and I don't think I've
               | had to reset the PRAM to fix a problem since my Titanium
               | MacBook Pro circa 2007. I've had to nuke _other_ settings
               | on occasion, but still generally have markedly fewer
               | problems than I did in my Windows-using days. (Which were
               | more recent than 1999, but still not that recent, so back
               | to the  "I'm sure it's better now" disclaimer.)
               | 
               | But, Apple definitely needs to have a better mechanism
               | for managing config file updates than "yeah, we've put a
               | few old config files in subfolders of this
               | 'RecoveredFiles' folder, maybe they're useful, maybe
               | they're not, good luck."
        
               | lispm wrote:
               | In year 37 you can't manually zap the 'PRAM' on Apple
               | Silicon Macs.
        
               | jeffbee wrote:
               | True, but I guess 95% of mac users are still on Intel
               | macs, are still being told by "genius" bar frontline
               | support to reset the SMC / zap PRAM for any kind of
               | issue, and this usually works, too. Jury is still out on
               | whether the M1 auto-zapping architecture is better, or
               | will just be more prone to being permanently messed up.
        
               | easton wrote:
               | Well, the fact that nobody ever has to zap PRAM on an iOS
               | device means that they've probably fixed that (or, since
               | you can't zap PRAM anymore, people just restore the
               | device instead...)
        
               | wizzwizz4 wrote:
               | > _but it is also the only OS I use that regularly gets
               | in a fucked up state where settings have to be nuked._
               | 
               | Windows gets into this state fairly quickly, too, but the
               | failures are less dramatic so we just live with it.
               | 
               | At least with Debian, it only happens when I
               | _deliberately_ change stuff! Though the `xorg-server-
               | video-intel` driver _breaks_ features of post-2007 Intel
               | cards, and it 's installed by default, so... perhaps it
               | isn't the perfect OS either.
        
             | samstave wrote:
             | Why cant Apple use their TimeMachine tech to take a
             | snapshot of the prefs on the existing, then do their image
             | based update, then have it automatically apply the prefs
             | from the timemachine mod-integration?
             | 
             | The richest company in the world can't think different?
        
               | olyjohn wrote:
               | Just my opinion here, but I feel like Apple again doesn't
               | really care about power users. 98% of their users won't
               | be making any customizations like this, so they don't
               | care to spend money working on those "edge cases." Their
               | primary mission is to sell devices and apps to average
               | people who aren't tech geeks. And I don't think Apple
               | cares about general purpose computing. I see MacOS
               | getting closer to iOS with every update, and I'm betting
               | that at some point we'll lose filesystem access and sudo
               | access.
        
               | samstave wrote:
               | Have you ever been FORCED to upgrade/update against your
               | will for a new release whereby you say NO NO NO - then
               | you make the mistake of falling asleep with your phone
               | plugged into the charger to wake to a forced update to
               | your device?
               | 
               | Yeah - fuck apple - and fuck Jonny Ive - they claim to be
               | the masers of all aspects of designs, but really they're
               | they masters of /r/assholedesign
               | 
               | Their hardware is in the top 70th % - but their UX is IMO
               | <25%
               | 
               | (just look at how many clicks you need to do certain
               | tasks, such as bluetooth. They have a slide-up menu to
               | toggle BT and WIFI - but you have to go to
               | desktop->settings->bluetooth->(toggle it on
               | off/refresh)->find the device-> "cant connect" - Toggle
               | BT on both phone and device -> attempt to connect...
               | 
               | But you cant up-swipe hit BT and have it show you the FN
               | menu on screen.
               | 
               | You cant backup and manage all your prefs via icloud -
               | such that you can apply profiles, save profiles, etc from
               | your device to your linked cloud account and say "I
               | always want my privacy to be thus, these are the networks
               | I trust.
               | 
               | Their photos library mgmt is absolute garbage. You have
               | no photo details available to you.
               | 
               | Their albums are garbage.
               | 
               | There are so many interactions that require like 5x more
               | clicks than they should.
               | 
               | Their screens suck.
               | 
               | Their device accessory ecosystem sucks and punishes you
               | for profit with impunity.
               | 
               | They exploit chinese slave labor.
               | 
               | They try to charge you for flaws in the HW provided
               | (recall the balloon battery problem?
               | 
               | I had a macbook pro CATCH FIRE while I was asleep in bed.
               | They said they "recognize that was a safety problem, but
               | because our engineers (after two months of having the
               | machine) determined that at one time the liquid sensor
               | was set off, we cannot replace your machine EVEN THOUGH
               | IT WAS UNDER RECALL FOR THE CLASS OF PROS THAT WERE
               | RECALLED FOR CATCHING FIRE.
               | 
               | FUCK APPLE.
        
               | orf wrote:
               | That's a lot of anger and words over something that, in
               | the grand scheme of things, is so utterly unimportant and
               | almost contemptuously irrelevant.
               | 
               | Things are always a trade-off. There are big positives to
               | keeping the ecosystem on a consistent, new and secure
               | version of iOS. Similar positives apply to MacOS.
        
               | wizzwizz4 wrote:
               | Maybe the first point or four. The subsequent ones? They
               | actually seem pretty serious.
        
               | samstave wrote:
               | The problem I have with your argument, is you assume that
               | my frustration is just over a single device from Apple.
               | 
               | I have literally had every single apple product since the
               | Apple ][e -- aside from their server systems.
               | 
               | I have had every iPhone (even had pre-launch phones from
               | them) since launch up until I stopped at the 6s+ which is
               | the only phone I will ever own from them.
               | 
               | I have a history with apple that is not shallow and I
               | have had ~35 years of judgement against them.
               | 
               | I recall getting into a talk with a fellow engineer at
               | Lockheed where I said "Trust me, Apple will switch to
               | intel procs - and this apple boi almost had a heart
               | attack saying that would NEVER happen...
               | 
               | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mac_transition_to_Intel_pro
               | ce ssors
               | 
               | Yeah that happened ~2 years before it actually occured...
               | 
               | (I used to work for intel and have stories about trend
               | prediction there as well...)
               | 
               | So yeah, I'm solid in my position of what I know to have
               | happened...
        
               | derefr wrote:
               | They know exactly what files were customized in the
               | previous OS-base-image. There's a reason the whitelist is
               | a whitelist, rather than a blacklist. Just guessing here,
               | but it's probably something to do with "iteration speed"
               | vs. QA SLAs made to large enterprise customers like IBM.
               | 
               | In my hypothetical, there's a set of preferences
               | overrides Apple have been forced by contract to guarantee
               | they'll validate during their QA process, and then allow
               | the OS to retain between updates. For any other file
               | _not_ forced by contract, they _don't bother_ with that
               | QA process ("takes too long!"), and so default-distrust
               | the ABI-stability of the file, and so don't let the OS
               | retain it between updates.
        
               | [deleted]
        
               | Demigod33 wrote:
               | What if one file was written by a malicious program?
        
               | azinman2 wrote:
               | Ya I think saying it's not for security is making a lot
               | of assumptions.
        
               | samstave wrote:
               | You know =what would be cool: If all apps had to register
               | their pref config files into a single dir and that would
               | be tracked and snapshotted - and then you could just have
               | ALL apps look to the same dir for where their configs
               | come from and you could have a single repo for ALL apps
               | on your or ANY system - and then you could walk up to a
               | terminal and plug in your "license key" which said what
               | apps you had access to and what ones you had configs for
               | and you could just run that app with all your input and
               | prefs and mappings etc...
               | 
               | I actually wrote a white paper on just this in ~2003 or
               | so - and met with several engineers from google and they
               | said it was impossible.
               | 
               | The idea being that you only carried around with you your
               | profile, and you could just come to a dumb terminal, plug
               | in your key, three factor auth - and the terminal would
               | give you access to the apps and resources they had...
               | 
               | (I should write ((again)) a short story on this)
        
               | unilynx wrote:
               | This was basically the idea behind the Windows registry -
               | a single configuration store. With mostly the same tree
               | structure on Machine and User level, so your local prefs
               | could override machine-level prefs. The 'user' part was
               | portable between machines on a domain. And you have a
               | single API to access or change settings
               | 
               | Opinions may differ on how well it was executed in
               | practice. I'm not sure /etc/ with its hundreds of
               | different file formats and Ansible or Chefs as an 'API'
               | is that much better
        
               | derefr wrote:
               | > This was basically the idea behind the Windows
               | registry.
               | 
               | Was it? I got the impression that the original (Windows
               | 3.1) registry was a Windows-internal thing--a store of
               | _Windows_ settings, and a set of APIs to read and modify
               | those _Windows_ settings, e.g. COM /OLE class
               | registrations. (See https://devblogs.microsoft.com/oldnew
               | thing/20080117-00/?p=23...)
               | 
               | But then, third-party ISVs found the registry, and
               | exploited it to store their own settings. And Microsoft
               | being Microsoft, they accepted that unilateral design
               | change and continued on with it.
        
               | Demigod33 wrote:
               | > they said it was impossible
               | 
               | What reasons did they name?
        
               | samstave wrote:
               | OK, disclaimer - I am going on over a decade since this
               | happened:
               | 
               | There was a phone that came out (nokia??) that had a
               | docking station and you could have a screen on it and a
               | keyboard attachement etc...
               | 
               | I presented this in ~2004-ish as a white paper... (lost
               | to hundreds of machines since, and poor data mgmt over
               | time)
               | 
               | I met with a few engineers friends from google over this
               | idea and they said they didnt think it was possible
               | (which at the time it was not - even though I wrote about
               | it in 2001) - and then there was that phone that came out
               | which allowed you to have a phone docking station and use
               | it as your primary computer.
               | 
               | This was at the same time whilst I was talking to my
               | buddies at Intel about stacked procs - and they were
               | doing 64 cores in ~2004 in test dies... and they worked.
               | 
               | It was in 1998 when I was at Intel that I asked "Why cant
               | we just stack multiple CPUs on top of eachother?" and was
               | laughed at...
               | 
               | I sat right next to Andy Grove, but I only spent all my
               | time in the DRG Game lab testing games on AMD and Celeron
               | procs to get subjective results on game perf.
               | 
               | Anyway... I posed a lot of things that were laughed at,
               | which then became reality later.
               | 
               | I worked with a MIPS proc eng about Slot-Rack-Servers, in
               | 1995 - this was deemed impossible... later we have HPE
               | based systems... His name was Kent... he was one of the
               | chief MIPS designers...
               | 
               | I was saying "lets make 'slots' that we can install a
               | switch, a server, storage or whatever on the
               | backplane..."
               | 
               | Yes - I am not lying - these were just things I imagined
               | in the early-mid-late 90s....
               | 
               | I had a good career - but I cannot take any credit for
               | these taking production due to I didnt ever implement any
               | of these ideas... aside from expressing them earlier than
               | others who were far more capable of executing.
               | 
               | Its just like IFTT - I literally whiteboarded IFTT for a
               | bunch of engineers from Lockheed a few years before that
               | existed... They have built a lot of what you interact
               | daily with (netflix) among others...
               | 
               | My soul flaw - is that I think of something early, I have
               | no ability to bring it to fruition and even though I have
               | exceptional famous engineers as friends, I cant bring my
               | ideas to market...
               | 
               | and then a few years later - things I designed hit the
               | zeitgeist and hit market...
               | 
               | I have, as a consultant, made people MANY billions of
               | dollars - and havent received anything in return.
        
               | derefr wrote:
               | You already have to reboot into the Recovery environment
               | and disable both System Integrity Protection (with
               | csrutil) and OS root-volume signing (with bputil) in
               | order to even (persistently) modify any of the files in
               | /System now.
               | 
               | Malware can't do that, because there's no way for any
               | executable that runs in the regular OS--and isn't signed
               | by Apple--to get anything to automatically happen over in
               | the Recovery OS.
               | 
               | (That's not to say you can't have persistent malware in
               | macOS; just that it can't persist itself into the OS boot
               | volume. It has to persist into the user volume--which is
               | great, because that means the OS can, on boot, mount the
               | user volume noexec and scan it for malware while running
               | in a known-good base state. That's even _without_ needing
               | to boot into the recovery OS.)
               | 
               | So, other than OS updates, basically the only reason
               | these files get modified is when people modify them
               | manually. And the only people doing that are 1. people
               | developing kernel extensions (or their friends, the
               | Hackintosh community); and 2. enterprises burning low-
               | level configuration changes into OS images for image-
               | based deployment.
               | 
               | And both of those cases involve modifying things that are
               | effectively "underneath the OS API abstraction", and
               | therefore don't have the same ABI guarantees that the OS
               | APIs themselves do. Thus the whitelist.
        
               | Demigod33 wrote:
               | Thorough explanation, thank you.
        
           | nullserver wrote:
           | Back in the day I used to tweak my Linux box, win3.1/95, vim,
           | android phone, etc. endlessly.
           | 
           | After awhile they would all become unusable, and I would
           | reinstall everything back to default and try again. Great for
           | leaning, lousy for day to day work.
           | 
           | Resetting things back to a known state can make life lot
           | easier.
           | 
           | In 10 years I can't recall needing to reset a Mac.
        
             | Daho0n wrote:
             | Because it does so itself. It is even worse to have lost
             | settings than having windows rot. At least in Windows rot
             | is the problem, not the fix.
        
           | TheKnack wrote:
           | It may be an unintentional side effect, but doing this may
           | prevent some degree of "Win rot", which Macos (and iOS) has
           | also suffered from to a degree in the past. A huge number of
           | mysterious iOS and Macos problems are caused by an
           | accumulation of issues when config files of various types are
           | "upgraded" along with the OS from one version to the next. If
           | you look at all of the minor and major versions that come out
           | in a year, small issues become large issues after being
           | compounded by a couple of dozen updates.
           | 
           | There was an issue with iOS a few years ago that caused
           | higher than normal battery drain when I was managing a
           | department that supported a lot of iOS devices. A lot of
           | users thought they needed a new battery. The battery drain
           | issue was resolved for 100% of our users by doing an "Erase
           | all data" and NOT restoring the backup. This process will
           | still fix an amazing number of weird iOS issues in 2021,
           | especially issues with the device slowing down, getting hot,
           | or draining battery. It works because you end up with default
           | config files that were designed for that version of the OS.
           | If you restore the backup, often it will "restore" the
           | problem you were trying to fix because the iOS restore
           | process puts some OS config files back.
           | 
           | It will be interesting to see if Macos becomes less
           | susceptible to win-rot type issues because of this config
           | file reset behavior, as annoying as it may seem.
        
         | ktapcnbje wrote:
         | Does `sudo chflags schg /etc/pam.d/sudo` work?
        
         | yrro wrote:
         | Does OS X not have /etc/sudoers.d?
        
           | bmurphy1976 wrote:
           | It does, but this is a PAM configuration, so I'm not sure how
           | /etc/sudoers.d would help...
        
             | yrro wrote:
             | Good point! :)
        
         | draugadrotten wrote:
         | curl -sL
         | https://gist.githubusercontent.com/RichardBronosky/31660eb4b...
         | | bash
         | 
         | This helps.
        
           | IncRnd wrote:
           | Seems secure.
        
           | envy2 wrote:
           | This "download random script from internet and execute" thing
           | is a terrible idea, even moreso to put in bash_profile...
        
       | throwaway8581 wrote:
       | What exactly is the point of sudo/UAC these days of single-user
       | machines? I think https://xkcd.com/1200 put it well. Anything
       | running as an unelevated user account can access my browser
       | sessions where it can steal my passwords, emails, other other
       | private info. It can turn on my microphone and camera. It can
       | read all of my documents. Those are the things I care about
       | protecting, not whatever special things root can do like install
       | drivers and create virtual network interfaces.
        
       | antonio-ramadas wrote:
       | Having the ability to use Touch ID for sudo is handy. I've been
       | using it for a while.
       | 
       | Coupled with `expect` I use it to authenticate through SSH (that
       | is the only feasible option I got to connect to hosts I've got
       | limited access). I even wrote about it: https://antonio-
       | ramadas.github.io/blog/2020/10/30/ssh-login-...
       | 
       | Here is the gist of it:                 #!/usr/bin/expect
       | # Connects via SSH to the host passed as argument
       | set timeout 60       set server [lindex $argv 0]       set
       | username <USERNAME>       set password [exec sudo cat
       | <PATH_TO_YOUR_PASSWORD_FILE>]              spawn ssh
       | $username@$server              expect {         "yes/no" { send
       | "yes\r" ; exp_continue }        "\*?assword" { send "$password\r"
       | }       }              interact
       | 
       | Edit: Please remove all permissions from the password file with:
       | chmod a-rwx <PATH_TO_PASSWORD_FILE>
       | 
       | I'm also assuming you run this script on an environment you
       | control and trust. Be wary of your password.
        
       | 7ewis wrote:
       | Make sure you put it at the top, added it to the end... caught me
       | out. (It asks for both)
        
       | PureParadigm wrote:
       | For my accounts I usually just allow sudo to work without
       | prompting for password by using the NOPASSWD configuration
       | option. This saves _a lot_ of time if you need to use sudo
       | frequently (in my case I use it for system upgrades).
       | 
       | Unless I'm missing something, the security cost of this should be
       | negligible, especially if you're in the habit of locking your
       | computer screen when you're not using it (and this typically
       | happens by default after a few minutes even if you forget). And
       | if you're relying on the sudo password prompt to protect you
       | against untrusted scripts, I'd argue you have bigger problems.
        
         | toxik wrote:
         | This is absolutely terrible advice!
        
           | PureParadigm wrote:
           | Can you explain why? I'm genuinely curious in case I've
           | missed something!
        
             | madjam002 wrote:
             | I'm guessing they meant because malware can now run
             | commands as root without prompting for a password, however
             | I'd argue that if you have malware running as your user in
             | the first place then that will likely be more damaging to
             | you than it getting root and modifying your system, as it
             | will be able to access browser session cookies, personal
             | documents, etc.
             | 
             | Personally I don't have passwordless sudo but I'm also
             | curious as to what the attack vector might be here if you
             | were to enable it.
        
       | metafunctor wrote:
       | If you run things under tmux, you'll also need this:
       | https://github.com/fabianishere/pam_reattach
        
         | antihero wrote:
         | Ah, thanks! Was wondering why it wasn't working in tmux.
        
       | parhamn wrote:
       | This made me realize my usage of sudo has gone down quite a bit.
       | It seems like things mostly get permissions right these days,
       | brew and ports were the main culprits back in the day.
        
         | eyelidlessness wrote:
         | I was thinking the same thing. Since I got my MBP16 I think the
         | only times I've typed a password at all have been when the
         | Touch ID session expires or whatever it is that requires
         | reauth.
        
       | rmathot wrote:
       | Using biometrics instead of a secret-based authentication is
       | always a bad idea.
       | 
       | Secrets can be changed easily when they get compromissed, your
       | figerprints/iris/whatever cannot.
       | 
       | https://www.csoonline.com/article/3330695/6-reasons-biometri...
        
         | jrockway wrote:
         | On the other hand, you can't type your fingerprint into a
         | random link that you receive in your email.
         | 
         | I think modern devices that use biometrics to unlock a secret
         | key are different from the old-school case of biometric
         | authentication. If someone is storing a picture of your
         | fingerprint, then of course they can replay that to impersonate
         | you. But that's not what TouchID is doing -- it's just a chip
         | that will only give up the private key if it detects your
         | fingerprint. You have to have physical access to that chip, and
         | a finger analog that will fool the chip into giving up the
         | secret key, and then you can use that key to compromise things.
         | But if you detect that, you just revoke the key, get a new
         | device, and are good to go.
         | 
         | I don't have a great analysis for sudo. You want root on MacOS
         | to do something like install a long-term compromise. Your
         | regular user account already has your GMail session cookie and
         | bank information, so sudo isn't really good for anything else;
         | if you leave your unlocked laptop around somewhere, your
         | Internet life is over. But if someone physically steals your
         | finger so they can gain access to sudo and install a keylogger
         | or something, you already know you're compromised -- your
         | laptop and finger are gone, so you know something's up,
         | defeating the purpose of a long-term compromise.
         | 
         | This attack can't be done remotely; if someone sshs to your
         | laptop and wants to sudo, they can't just take a picture of
         | your fingerprint and upload it... they have to physically touch
         | the sensor on your laptop.
         | 
         | Overall, I think biometrics like TouchID / FaceID / U2F /
         | WebAuthn are strictly better than passwords. They are super
         | convenient. They can be revoked. They can't be phished. That's
         | a huge win over passwords.
        
         | dustinmoris wrote:
         | How often has your mother given money to someone else who
         | pretended to be you? Because parents identify their children
         | through biometric authentication. They look at you and can in a
         | matter of split seconds verify that you are actually you.
         | Biometric authentication is the oldest and most sophisticated
         | form of authentication. I can enter my work place and nobody
         | asks me to type in a password at the door because the staff can
         | immediately identify my identity by simply validating my face
         | with their own eyes. It's incredible, trust me.
        
           | emidln wrote:
           | Your mother doesn't view you through a 0.3MP camera in a
           | dimly lit room with no flash when deciding if the person in
           | front of her is her child.
           | 
           | Further, if I take a high resolution photo of you, and then
           | go to your mom and ask for money by presenting her the
           | picture, she won't accept that picture as proof that I am you
           | (although she may suspect I'm blackmailing or otherwise
           | threatening you). This, moreso than qualms about the
           | resolution/quality of the sensor is the GP's point. If the
           | sensors are accurate, that specific set of bits that is
           | translated as your fingerprint will not change. If someone
           | knows those bits, it's extremely likely they can convince the
           | sensor they are you. From our example, once I have your
           | picture, I can tell your mother I'm you--and she'll believe
           | me!
        
             | dustinmoris wrote:
             | So your qualm is low quality biometric scanning, not
             | biometrics itself? So we agree that biometrics are the most
             | secure form of authentication and we are only debating on
             | the quality of the technology, which we know is getting
             | better day by day, yeah?
        
               | emidln wrote:
               | > Further, if I take a high resolution photo of you, and
               | then go to your mom and ask for money by presenting her
               | the picture, she won't accept that picture as proof that
               | I am you (although she may suspect I'm blackmailing or
               | otherwise threatening you). This, moreso than qualms
               | about the resolution/quality of the sensor is the GP's
               | point. If the sensors are accurate, that specific set of
               | bits that is translated as your fingerprint will not
               | change. If someone knows those bits, it's extremely
               | likely they can convince the sensor they are you. From
               | our example, once I have your picture, I can tell your
               | mother I'm you--and she'll believe me!
               | 
               | You skipped the second paragraph, so I helpfully requoted
               | it.
        
               | GranPC wrote:
               | It rather sounds to me like you have run out of
               | arguments.
        
         | djrogers wrote:
         | > is always a bad idea.
         | 
         | Making sweeping generalizations about something as complex as
         | information security is always a bad idea.
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | gumby wrote:
       | As the author says, "Since you expect to be be typing in a
       | command line, moving your finger to touch the key is probably not
       | very efficient."
       | 
       | I was excited to set this up when the first fingerprint sensor
       | macs came out. Within a couple of days I'd switched it off. It is
       | quite inconvenient and especially bad if you use an external
       | keyboard.
        
         | xoa wrote:
         | It still strikes me as weird that Apple went with Touch ID vs
         | Face ID on the Mac. Computer form factors in general, and
         | particularly notebooks and AIOs, should be perfect for Face ID:
         | the user is always at a good distance, in the right position,
         | looking at it, and as you say will frequently have their hands
         | otherwise occupied actually controlling the system. For that
         | matter a Face ID+iPhone-quality camera thing for Macs that
         | could attach to an external monitor would be a pretty useful
         | value-add, and it would equalize things across all Macs meaning
         | it could be depended on more. It's remained really perplexing
         | that year after year when Apple left Touch ID far behind on iOS
         | they haven't installed Face ID where it'd be even better. I
         | assume this is mainly another one of many symptoms of Apple
         | just not being able to multitask very well and the Mac not
         | really getting that much concerted attention.
        
           | gumby wrote:
           | > It still strikes me as weird that Apple went with Touch ID
           | vs Face ID on the Mac
           | 
           | BTW the face system is so automatic on the phone that I don't
           | think I'd want it for much beyond login. The flow-breaking
           | reminders when installing apps and the explicit requirement
           | of typing sudo are good ways to require deliberate intent for
           | dependent risks. Login, App Store purchases and the like
           | would be OK by me if controlled by face.
           | 
           | All that being said: the Mac camera remains astonishingly
           | terrible (see a recent HN front pager about how bad webcams
           | are in general). Not just low resolution but poor white
           | balance etc. I am not sure it's been upgraded in the last
           | decade.
           | 
           | There is much speculation as to why (no room in the lid,
           | which is plausible); I feel like for some reason this is an
           | issue on which they simply don't care for some reason as they
           | make a lot of fuss about the changes in speaker and
           | microphone. Perhaps it simply is good enough, based on the
           | innumerable Zoom calls I've been on.
           | 
           | Face ID needs more than a better camera, it also needs an IR
           | channel. I do expect that when they finally do get around to
           | upgrading the camera system they will jump ahead to something
           | like the iphone front facing system.
        
           | marcinzm wrote:
           | I suspect the main reason is that the face-id camera module
           | is too thick and they'd need to increase the thickness of the
           | display casing. If there's on thing the Mac designers will
           | never allow it's a thicker laptop.
        
             | xoa wrote:
             | Based on iFixit's iPhone 12 teardown and thus the most
             | recent version of the module, I think they might be able to
             | get it into the screen without much compromise. An
             | important consideration here is that it's not just about
             | the Face ID bit, it's about the better camera bit. While it
             | was important even earlier, this past year has made
             | videoconferencing and other remote work rocket up in
             | priorities, and Macs suck pretty badly by modern standards
             | in terms of camera quality. It's a big, by definition both
             | very visible and very _social_ feature (because everyone
             | else in the conference can see how good /bad you look). I
             | think that might be a motivation for Apple that Face ID by
             | itself wouldn't have.
             | 
             | However that aside, thickness concerns don't apply a single
             | bit to the iMac or to a standalone (Mac only) module (or
             | even integration in Apple's ultra fancy display), so that
             | objection doesn't cover the spectrum of Macs.
        
               | djrogers wrote:
               | The current thickness of the MacBook lid (my 16") is
               | <3.5mm, and the faceID module is >3.5mm. Given that you
               | need glass and metal in that 3.5mm as well as the faceID
               | module, you're talking about significantly changing the
               | dimensions of the MacBooks to do this with today's faceID
               | module.
               | 
               | I look forward to the day they do get it fit in there
               | though (hoping that the Silicon redesign allows for it)!
        
               | gumby wrote:
               | > It's a big, by definition both very visible and very
               | social feature
               | 
               | But you only see _yourself_ as a thumbnail so the
               | feedback is quite lossy.
        
           | ncrmro wrote:
           | I feel like it's only a matter of time
        
           | nikanj wrote:
           | Less likely to accidentally fool you into tapping the finger
           | sensor vs fool you into showing your face to the camera
        
             | xoa wrote:
             | Could say the same thing about iOS, and this is a silly UX
             | complaint anyway. Apple could easily offer or require some
             | purposeful interaction using mouse/keyboard along with Face
             | ID and it'd still be a nicer UX.
        
             | jaywalk wrote:
             | Not sure how "fooling" comes into play. Only trusted
             | applications can request to use Touch ID/Face ID in the
             | first place. It's not like there's a way for a random
             | application to just say "Scan your face and let me take
             | over your machine"
        
               | nikanj wrote:
               | Exploits do happen, and to me it sounds reasonable that a
               | web page gets local unprivileged code execution -> sudo
               | (which is a trusted application) -> my face was already
               | in front of the camera -> root.
               | 
               | I guess this could be circumvented with a "click OK if
               | you agree to get face ID" dialog or similar. Anyway, you
               | need to figure out a way to deal with the "key" always
               | being in the lock if you're using face id on a laptop.
        
               | gumby wrote:
               | One point is that the touch prompt is "out of band": it
               | shows up in its own window. Some other app could open
               | that request while you're looking elsewhere then yiu type
               | sudo, look up, see it (without focus), so click it and
               | then put your finger on the sensor. When your sudo
               | remains blocked you see the other, click I, and proceed
               | under the assumption it was a glitch.
               | 
               | Sounds complicated but is actually quite plausible. And
               | worse under face I'd as it would be more seamless. iOS is
               | different as the user interface is largely single task
               | (slightly less under ipad) and background tasks that need
               | face ID need a notification and explicit selection to get
               | it
        
       | ctur wrote:
       | Every update requires you to redo this. It's so repetitive that I
       | keep a copy of what I want `/etc/sudo` to look like in my homedir
       | and, whenever I get the prompt for a sudo attempt, I instead sudo
       | to cp the file. Then I go on my way with what I was originally
       | intending.has recently sudo'd.
       | 
       | Rote but effective.
        
         | ethanpil wrote:
         | Why not run a script on boot that does the update? Does it need
         | to be in the .bashrc?
        
       | danielyaa5 wrote:
       | BTW if any of you accidentally corrupted the file like me, this
       | fixed things for me
       | https://superuser.com/questions/1368246/accidentally-added-a...
        
       | fluder wrote:
       | And with every macOS update you should do it again and again.
       | Just another not useful tip.
        
         | smolyeet wrote:
         | its not like you update everyday, once a month seems like a
         | fair trade if it's convenient.
        
         | deergomoo wrote:
         | I disagree that it's not useful--I have a really long password
         | and suck at typing, so being able to mash the fingerprint
         | sensor is really helpful.
         | 
         | But yes, it is very frustrating that every time there's a
         | system update you have to redo it.
        
         | aequitas wrote:
         | Or just use Puppet to manage your macOS installation which
         | makes things a lot easier ;)
        
           | fluder wrote:
           | Puppet on every minor update?
        
       | rvz wrote:
       | Very handy. But you can use your Apple Watch for sudo which is
       | even better: [0]
       | 
       | [0] https://github.com/insidegui/pam-watchid
        
         | pplante wrote:
         | I agree using your watch is cool. However I think you lose out
         | on the security aspect, an important element that a fingerprint
         | provides all on the same device.
        
           | apetrovic wrote:
           | The watch is already used on other parts of the MacOS
           | (anything in System Preferences), I don't think that sudo is
           | much different than allowing kernel extension to run, for
           | example.
        
           | dkonofalski wrote:
           | >I think you lose out on the security aspect
           | 
           | Can you clarify what you mean by this? I love the idea of
           | unlocking and running admin stuff with my watch but kinda
           | gave up on the idea because I assumed there would be security
           | implications. After thinking about it a little more, though,
           | I haven't really been able to come up with anything that
           | didn't already require physical access to my machine and some
           | way to authenticate (password or fingerprint). Since you have
           | to authenticate your device to authenticate the watch and it
           | un-authenticates any time it's removed, it seems like you
           | don't lose anything security-wise.
        
           | JimDabell wrote:
           | The watch unlocking mechanism only works if it's in an
           | unlocked state, i.e. you haven't taken it off your wrist
           | since the last time you entered your PIN. Somebody would have
           | to double-press the side button on your watch while you were
           | wearing it.
        
           | gumby wrote:
           | I think it's not that bad, security wise. Your watch unlocks
           | as soon as it leaves your wrist, and the unlock handshake
           | uses the BT hardware to figure out how close your watch is.
           | 
           | I think this isn't a great UX for other reasons I posted on
           | this discussion. But the security is acceptable to me.
        
         | dmitriid wrote:
         | I'd love for iPhone and Watch to serve as a second-screen touch
         | id for MacOS. Then I can tuck the laptop (or Mini) away, and
         | not have to type passwords into various systems.
        
         | deergomoo wrote:
         | If you have a Touch ID Mac, enabling Touch ID for sudo also
         | enables using an Apple Watch, so you can use either if you
         | like.
        
           | messe wrote:
           | If I remember rightly, this only works with the lid open.
        
             | deergomoo wrote:
             | Ah, I never use clamshell mode so I didn't know that.
        
             | mkskm wrote:
             | That's correct, which typically defeats the point of using
             | it since in that case you still have access to Touch ID.
             | The above link works in both scenarios, and can be used as
             | a fallback for pam_tid.
        
         | gumby wrote:
         | You have to take your fingers off the keyboard for this which
         | is a big distractor, worse than using a mouse.
         | 
         | I use this feature for other touch cases (e.g. unlocking
         | 1Password) but would hate it when in the flow.
         | 
         | Admittedly my password is well wired into my fingers.
        
           | bombcar wrote:
           | I want a mouse with Touch ID in the button. Or on the side.
        
             | chadlavi wrote:
             | It would be cool if they built it into the touchpad in a
             | future generation. I'm guessing once they can figure out
             | fingerprint through the glass on iPhone they'll do it in
             | the touchpad, too.
        
               | anaerobicover wrote:
               | I'd have some concerns with this being trigger-able
               | without positive intent to do so if it were in my mouse
               | or trackpad. Having a small interruption can be
               | beneficial for safety.
        
           | hardlianotion wrote:
           | If you use your little finger RHS print as a reference,
           | perhaps that won't be too bad? On the keyboard it seems
           | fairly reachable.
           | 
           | I haven't tried it myself ...
        
             | gumby wrote:
             | I did try that but it's a stretch worse that the extrema of
             | Emacs.
        
             | dylan604 wrote:
             | The fact it is the last key in the first row makes it easy
             | to find by touch without looking at it. Just like regular
             | touch typing, it becomes habitual/muscle memory.
             | 
             | I haven't used a full size keyboard in so long, I had to
             | think about the print reference. I have lost direct
             | placement of Home/Print Screen/End type button locations in
             | my memory. To be more accurate to the keyboard in question,
             | it is a slight extension past the delete key. The only
             | hazard is if you come up short, you might bring up Siri
             | (depending on touchbar mode) which is an even bigger
             | distraction. </pedanticmode>
        
           | easton wrote:
           | Maybe that's better, if you're using sudo you should probably
           | think a second before you do what you were going to do. I
           | used to enforce the disclaimer coming up every time after I
           | broke a package one too many times.
        
       | vladikoff wrote:
       | Original source / credit for this is probably:
       | https://twitter.com/cabel/status/931292107372838912
        
       | mettamage wrote:
       | This won't be as easy, but I just never thought about it: what
       | about creating a Face ID for sudo on Mac?
        
       ___________________________________________________________________
       (page generated 2021-03-01 23:01 UTC)