[HN Gopher] Surge Pricing, Artificial Intelligence, and Responsi...
___________________________________________________________________
Surge Pricing, Artificial Intelligence, and Responsibility
Author : monsieurpng
Score : 21 points
Date : 2021-02-25 06:19 UTC (2 days ago)
(HTM) web link (medium.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (medium.com)
| pgsimp wrote:
| "we would never build a system that might "learn" that people
| whose destination is a hospital tend to be willing to pay higher
| fares"
|
| I'm sorry, but wouldn't that exactly be the point of "surge
| pricing"? To allow people who REALLY need a ride to be able to
| pay a higher price and get where they need to be?
|
| "Surge pricing" would kick in because of scarcity, as in, not
| enough rides available for everybody.
|
| The person who needs to go to the hospital needs it more urgently
| than the person who wants to meet her friends at the pub, so she
| should be able to pay a higher price to get where she needs to be
| (the hospital).
|
| The alternative is that she doesn't have the option of paying a
| higher price out of "ethical considerations", and has a high
| probability of not actually finding a ride to the hospital.
|
| If you want to get all ethical about it, maybe you can set up a
| system where people get their money back if they can prove they
| needed to go to the hospital (or health insurance could cover
| it). But it is unlikely to cover all possible cases of urgency
| ("needed to flee from a terrorist attack", "needed to catch the
| love of my life before she marries somebody else" and so on) .
| Much easier and more effective to regulate by market prices.
|
| It seems to me yet another case of misguided socialist ideology
| causing harm in the real world.
|
| If you are worried people might not be able to afford the ride to
| the hospital, you could give them credit.
| swiley wrote:
| Surge pricing probably wouldn't be an issue if there were
| speculators that could sell during the highs to smooth it out.
| sokoloff wrote:
| > Contrast this with what we have heard about electricity
| providers in Texas. The surge was allowed to skyrocket up nearly
| 100-fold, just when people needed power most to survive.
|
| Texas _regulators_ set both the surge maximum and ensured that
| the wholesale price was set at this maximum for days on end. This
| was not a market exploitation of surge pricing but rather a
| regulator's decision to try to manage a gross imbalance of supply
| and demand.
| jackson1442 wrote:
| I didn't hear about this change in electric pricing until after
| the blackouts were over and electricity was restored, mostly
| because I didn't have hardly any internet access during the
| storm. Was my demand supposed to decrease? Because every time
| the power came on my heat was on max and I would charge as much
| stuff as possible, boil water, etc. because I had no idea when
| I'd have power again.
| ajsnigrutin wrote:
| Surge pricing is great within limits (mostly monetary), to help
| with keeping an actual network effective. If regulations are set
| correctly (max surge price factor, max highprice interval in a
| pre-set time interval,...), and surge-pricing-aware devices are
| available (eg. water heaters that turn off at higher price, and
| turn back on at lower).
|
| Going from a couple of cents to $9 per kWh, for extended time
| periods, without users actually having an alternative is well...
| pretty shitty.
| lrem wrote:
| A nice, strong piece. I love the example of people accepting to
| pay through their teeth to get to the hospital. Makes a nice,
| clear case for all the research on ethics in ML.
| p1mrx wrote:
| That's what happens (in the US) if you're hurt badly enough to
| need a helicopter: https://youtu.be/3gdCH1XUIlE
| bko wrote:
| > People needed to be evacuated, but left to its own devices, our
| AI would have discouraged them with a higher price.
|
| There's two sides to the market. If off-duty drivers saw the
| higher price, they would be inclined to join. The price conveys
| information to both parties. Similarly, if I could, but don't
| have to, take a cab, seeing a very high price would dissuade me.
| But if I'm in a dangerous situation, I would gladly pay that
| price. Prices exist whether you want them or not. Charging
| everyone a low price when there are extraneous circumstances that
| affect the supply or demand doesn't miraculously solve the
| mismatch.
|
| Variable pricing in general is a good idea, but you obviously
| need caps and floors. For instance, I have an adjustable rate
| mortgage. It makes sense to me, and when it starts adjusting the
| maximum rate it can go up to is around 10%, still not
| unreasonable worst case scenario. These contracts apparently
| didn't have a reasonable maximum rate, but there's no reason they
| can't be built with one.
|
| We should encourage transparent prices. If energy is constrained,
| we should discourage people from using energy if they can and
| encourage supply. And the simplest way to do that is the price
| system.
___________________________________________________________________
(page generated 2021-02-27 23:01 UTC)