[HN Gopher] Coinbase (2013)
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       Coinbase (2013)
        
       Author : rmason
       Score  : 48 points
       Date   : 2021-02-25 19:59 UTC (3 hours ago)
        
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 (TXT) w3m dump (www.usv.com)
        
       | 3327 wrote:
       | Fred motherfukin Wilson. from being a ball on Castaway to running
       | a top vc fund and writing a clean essay with clear conviction
       | with clear reasoning.
       | 
       | What a legend.
        
         | wellthisisgreat wrote:
         | I wanted to look up Castaway but managed to have the "Oh"
         | moment before looking at the first result
        
       | maxrev17 wrote:
       | I'm gonna start altbase, get ready for the alt coins! ;)
        
         | rtrdea wrote:
         | Binance?
        
       | aqme28 wrote:
       | I wonder if he would have done better simply investing in
       | Bitcoin. The price in May 2013 was about $115, so that would be a
       | 400x+ return.
       | 
       | Of course if Coinbase never got funded, I doubt BTC would be
       | worth what it's worth today.
        
         | zeroxfe wrote:
         | > I wonder if he would have done better simply investing in
         | Bitcoin.
         | 
         | Hindsight's 20-20. Especially when it comes to investment.
        
         | secondbreakfast wrote:
         | Conservatively the round here valued the company at $25m. Pre-
         | dilution that's a 4000x return, likely 2000x-3000x post-
         | dilution.
        
           | koolba wrote:
           | Should have taken _that_ money and bought bitcoin, and then
           | Tesla, and then bitcoin again, and then...
        
         | PragmaticPulp wrote:
         | Given the estimates for their valuation at the time, this was
         | probably a significantly better investment than even $100 BTC.
         | 
         | The adage holds true: The best position during a gold rush is
         | still to be selling picks and shovels.
        
           | adventured wrote:
           | > The adage holds true: The best position during a gold rush
           | is still to be selling picks and shovels.
           | 
           | That adage is false. I'm routinely amazed at how unchallenged
           | it goes when it's so obviously and demonstrably false. People
           | just won't stop repeating it.
           | 
           | You want to own the gold mine (ideally with plentiful
           | reserves that you can extract at a competitive cost). You
           | want to own the oil / oil rights.
           | 
           | The mining majors do dramatically better than the companies
           | selling mining equipment, during a gold rush / commodity
           | boom. The comparison isn't close.
           | 
           | The big oil companies do dramatically better than the oil
           | equipment sellers/makers during an oil price boom.
           | 
           | When oil hits $120 it's not the equipment makers suddenly
           | making the most money. It's Exxon, as they watch their
           | annualized profit hit $50 or $60 billion, which is more than
           | every oil industry equipment maker on the planet combined.
           | And that's just Exxon, you've got a dozen other big oil
           | companies rolling around in a similar profit explosion. And
           | have you noticed the oil majors very rarely go bankrupt? They
           | not only benefit the most during the gold rush, they tend to
           | endure.
           | 
           | The so called pick & shovel makers / sellers are among the
           | last to benefit during a boom, they have mediocre pricing
           | power 99% of the time (except for a five minute peak during a
           | commodity boom), and they're among the first to get smashed
           | when the gold rush turns against them. They're left sitting
           | on inventory they can't move, frequently go bankrupt because
           | of it, and most of the time have mediocre margins (they're
           | almost always selling a quasi commodity low-value product
           | with numerous competitors). If you're going to sell a
           | commodity, it's best to be selling a high-value, high-demand
           | commodity and be a first tier position (meaning you own the
           | commodity). It's also ideal if it's difficult to compete,
           | meaning it costs a lot of money to bring new supply on-line
           | (which is true in mining and oil extraction); and then if
           | there are some cartels that help to regulate over-supply,
           | that's a big bonus. You'll find pick and shovel makers /
           | sellers have few protections, are far easier to compete with,
           | and there are no juggernaut cartels (much less superpowers
           | and major nation states) propping up their prices.
           | 
           | Most major industries have tiers of benefit, or pyramids of
           | value. You want to be in the first / top tier, which is
           | owning the gold mine or oil. The shovel makers are several
           | value tiers down.
           | 
           | An example of how this works (and it's pretty similar in most
           | industries): the alcohol beverage industry. The top tier is
           | Anheuser-Busch InBev and other big makers, they have the
           | strongest position, best margins, are able to dictate terms
           | to the tiers below them in most cases, and pull the most
           | profit out of the system. Next down you have agencies, that
           | handle things like marketing, advertising and distribution.
           | Then you have suppliers of low-value commodities, the pick &
           | shovel makers, that provide eg cans, bottles, cardboard, and
           | some manufacturing equipment. Depending on the industry,
           | occasionally tiers swap a position (in some industries the
           | equipment makers - eg in the semiconductor industry - may be
           | more important than helper agencies, but they're never first
           | tier regardless). Next down, at the bottom, you have
           | retailers (whether Walmart or independent liquor stores),
           | they get the final little itsy bitsy crumbs of margin, and
           | are constantly under pressure every which way on pricing.
           | Margins almost always weaken as you go down the tiers, and
           | pricing power does as well.
           | 
           | The oil industry works that way. The mining industry works
           | that way. The shovel makers are not anywhere near the top.
           | 
           | If you get to choose, you want to be in the position of Intel
           | or TSMC, not Applied Materials or LAM. You want to be Apple,
           | not Foxconn or the company selling lower value pieces of the
           | phone. You want to be Visa, not the company manufacturing
           | plastic card blanks for Visa; you want to be Coca Cola (own
           | the brand), not the company selling aluminum cans to them.
           | The first tiers in the pyramid extract far more value on
           | average than the shovel makers.
        
             | PragmaticPulp wrote:
             | The modern oil industry isn't a valid comparison to a gold
             | rush. It's relatively mature, stable, and operating at a
             | global scale that has been captured by a few dominant
             | players.
             | 
             | The adage is specifically about the gold _rush_ because it
             | created a frenzy of people rushing into an industry looking
             | to get rich quickly. Some of them did, but many of them
             | lost more than they gained.
             | 
             | Meanwhile, the people selling the tools to everyone hoping
             | to get rich on the gold rush made a lot of money no matter
             | what.
             | 
             | > If you get to choose, you want to be in the position of
             | Intel or TSMC, not Applied Materials or LAM.
             | 
             | Obviously, if we get to choose with the benefit of
             | hindsight then we will choose the winners. This strategy
             | will be perfect as soon as we have a time machine
             | available.
             | 
             | It's not easy to choose the side of the winners ahead of
             | time, though. That's the point.
        
       | tlb wrote:
       | Original discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5671088
        
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