[HN Gopher] Reddit: One of social media's oldest companies is al...
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Reddit: One of social media's oldest companies is also its most
       undervalued
        
       Author : hubraumhugo
       Score  : 110 points
       Date   : 2021-02-21 18:06 UTC (2 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (latecheckout.substack.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (latecheckout.substack.com)
        
       | CMay wrote:
       | Definitely agree with a few of the suggestions in the article.
       | Personally, the mobile-first UI changes they made a long time ago
       | with new Reddit were so tragically bad that you could almost
       | consider them a canary. My Reddit usage dropped significantly
       | after that change even with old.reddit.com hanging around.
       | 
       | On a desktop or a laptop when you visit reddit.com it still
       | resets to their card layout every time unless you login and you
       | still have to click through twice to get to comments even if you
       | explicitly click the comments link. Majority of my usage was
       | logged out and that was not going to change.
       | 
       | Pinterest, Twitter and Facebook are also bad about this. Being
       | logged out is dissatisfying on those sites, so I rarely visit
       | them and don't like when they're returned in search results. HN,
       | Flickr, Pluto.TV, YouTube, Zoom and others don't punish you so
       | much for that.
        
       | wombatmobile wrote:
       | This article tantalises with the last word of its headline,
       | "undervalued", but never rises to the challenge that word screams
       | out.
       | 
       | After an entertaining George Carlin introduction, the section
       | "r/Value" says boldy and starkly "$6 billion? That's it?"
       | 
       | Sounds like $6 billion is just chump change compared to the real
       | value of Reddit, right? I can't wait to read more...
       | 
       | If you make it to the last section, "r/GalaxyBrain", you come
       | face to face with "The Galaxy Brain moves to take it to the next
       | level"
       | 
       | Are you ready to go to the next level? Here it is:
       | 
       | "Reddit should make it easy for subreddits to pay-gate their
       | community, sell merchandise (physical and digital), and post
       | jobs."
       | 
       | That's it?
       | 
       | Did I miss something?
        
         | dhagz wrote:
         | You missed the bits where Reddit should start trying to occupy
         | the space of other content-hosting sites to generate more ad
         | revenue and harvest more data from users.
         | 
         | It comes down to the fact that Reddit isn't really a social
         | media site - it's a link aggregator with the trappings of
         | social media, or a slightly fancier network of forums (fora?
         | fori? I forget the declension...). I think it is perfectly
         | valued, and fits a niche that maybe only Pinterest comes close
         | to filling. If it tries to expand its social media elements, it
         | will be trying to be something it isn't and users will respond
         | accordingly (one would hope).
        
           | Accujack wrote:
           | Reddit's main product at this point is their userbase...
           | information on them, the ability to influence them via echo
           | chambers and censorship, the ability to sell things to
           | them...
        
           | moistbar wrote:
           | >fora? fori? I forget the declension...
           | 
           | I think it'd be "fora" in this instance. I'm judging this
           | from the word "medium/media" and I know how many linguistic
           | exceptions Latin had, though, so I'm probably wrong.
        
             | naniwaduni wrote:
             | In this _particular_ case, we might prefer  "fororum", the
             | _genitive_ plural.
        
               | moistbar wrote:
               | Ah shit, here I go back down the Latin-hole again.
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | olivierestsage wrote:
       | It's hard not to sense that Reddit's at the beginning of a (very
       | long, slow) decline in relevance. Almost every day I see some
       | comment by an "ex-Redditor," "Reddit refugee," etc. on HN and
       | similar sites. Obviously this is not representative of The
       | General Public, but it might be an indicator of where they're
       | going.
        
         | hoseja wrote:
         | I think they really want to turn it into more of a Pinterest
         | and get rid of the opinionated techie.
        
         | tester34 wrote:
         | For every HNer that "leaves" Reddit there's probably hundreds
         | of thousands people that just found about this site, they
         | probably come from non-US.
         | 
         | but I think they'd decline hard if they turned off old.reddit
         | e.g now.
        
         | larvaetron wrote:
         | > Almost every day I see some comment by an "ex-Redditor,"
         | "Reddit refugee," etc. on HN and similar sites.
         | 
         | I wonder if this has anything to do with the "downvoting
         | comments I don't like" phenomenon that seems to have taken over
         | HN these past few years.
        
         | dageshi wrote:
         | I run a small niche regional subreddit and I can tell you it is
         | greatly more popular and active today than it was for the past
         | 5+ years of its life. Through no action of my own, reddit is
         | simply doing a better job of driving people who would be
         | interested in it to the sub.
         | 
         | HN always moans about reddit, they've moaned about it for near
         | a decade at this point, it still just grows bigger.
        
         | elicash wrote:
         | When some people leave, the community _improves_ and the site
         | gets more popular as a result.
         | 
         | Now, are those the people you're talking about? No idea, I
         | haven't seen who you're referring to and it'd be case-by-case.
         | But point being, the existence of "ex-Redditors" isn't
         | necessarily a bad thing.
        
         | optimalsolver wrote:
         | According to Alexa, Reddit gets more visitors than Wikipedia. I
         | doubt they're going anywhere.
        
         | johannes1234321 wrote:
         | Some loud people will always leave, but reddit just this months
         | got a lot of free ads (gamestop) which certainly will counter
         | the leavers.
        
           | DoreenMichele wrote:
           | Yes. Beware the "vocal minority" and the tendency for their
           | behavior to badly distort the signal to noise ratio and
           | potentially even make it look like the opposite of what it
           | really is.
        
             | sadgrip wrote:
             | I think in the case of Reddit though that vocal minority
             | could account for some non negligible amount of the content
             | the site relies on. The site needs its power users or it
             | has nothing to deliver to the casual user.
        
       | villgax wrote:
       | If only search on reddit was fixed...
        
         | doodlebugging wrote:
         | Reddit's search being broken is a feature.
         | 
         | If you make the search functionality work efficiently then it
         | is easy to see that many common questions on hundreds of
         | subreddits have already been answered in detail so that anyone
         | who can find that post only needs to engage long enough to read
         | one post and its comments.
         | 
         | If search works, there is less need for anyone to become a
         | redditor and to remain engaged with the site. It becomes like a
         | blog post that gave you the information you needed but offered
         | no incentive to read earlier entries or to subscribe for
         | updates.
         | 
         | So, if Search really worked a majority of the time, there would
         | be less need for new posts and therefore less user engagement
         | and fewer eyeballs on the ads they push.
         | 
         | New users come because they heard that there is a subreddit
         | where lots of knowledgeable people discuss the product, hobby,
         | etc that they are interested in.
         | 
         | Subreddits in general are that bomb pizza joint that everyone
         | raves about where the pies are burned at 600* in a wood-fired
         | oven to produce that awesome thin crusty goodness with just the
         | right amount of char. Reddit itself is the soggy disappointment
         | that you get when the middle of the slice slumps flaccidly on
         | the way to your taste buds because the vegetable pieces were
         | too thick and moist and under-cooked for that delicious thin
         | crust to support.
         | 
         | The highly focused subs are the crust, the main subs are the
         | disappointment.
         | 
         | EDIT: Downvoted. Pretty funny. I have been a redditor since
         | 2006. Reddit today is a fantastic but disorganized accumulation
         | of the knowledge and experiences of people from all over the
         | world. Search has never worked reliably though they have had
         | more than a decade to fix or improve it. That's all the
         | evidence that I need to conclude that broken search is a
         | feature intended to drive new content creation. Functional
         | search would make many new posts and comments unnecessary.
        
       | jonathanstrange wrote:
       | Well, I spend most of my Internet time there but I'd say that
       | forum web pages like that are generally overvalued, so perhaps
       | Reddit isn't undervalued after all and other companies are
       | overvalued. Also, their ads only work for limited type of content
       | like software and web apps. I tried an ad for a book there once
       | and it had zero effect. My girlfriend always receives ads for
       | military drones by Lockheed Martin, which is strange since she's
       | only interested in cats and r/food.
       | 
       | I guess one of the reasons why reddit is so popular is that it
       | doesn't really work for this commercial stuff too well (and their
       | website also breaks down from time to time). It's as charming as
       | the cat gifs we watch on it.
        
       | estacado wrote:
       | Though big subreddits are too big for their own good, it has its
       | unique value. It's serves as a battleground for people with
       | agendas and a bellwether to what topics are hot right now in. The
       | big subs as a collective are similar to what Digg was, but on a
       | larger scale. It's more about influencing people than engaging
       | them. I remember when almost 90% of Digg's frontage was submitted
       | by MrBabyMan and there were complaints about that. The one-man
       | show is impossible now on reddit, but groups with the similar
       | agendas where it's at now on reddit.
        
       | zeronine wrote:
       | I'm sure George Carlin would love knowing one of his quotes
       | prefaced an article about how a company can squeeze more
       | advertising money out of it's user base.
       | 
       | While I'm still complaining:
       | 
       | "You now need an email to sign up..." You don't, you can just
       | click 'next' without entering one.
       | 
       | "The mobile experience was improved" It wasn't. It's designed to
       | be so frustrating you just download the app.
        
         | corobo wrote:
         | > "The mobile experience was improved" It wasn't. It's designed
         | to be so frustrating you just download the app.
         | 
         | This is an absolute joke yeah. The page even has a button
         | overlay "This looks better in the app" which I would take as an
         | insult if I was their web dev but each to their own.
        
           | keanebean86 wrote:
           | Sometimes the click detection on the continue button is off
           | so it pretends I clicked "Open in app" which is beyond
           | frustrating.
           | 
           | I would just use another website but I can't find one that
           | has a similar mixture of cat gifs, old memes, far left
           | propaganda, and occasional science news.
        
             | RankingMember wrote:
             | > Sometimes the click detection on the continue button is
             | off
             | 
             | The way that it only does that with that button really
             | makes it hard for me to believe it's not intentional
        
               | xNeil wrote:
               | This might help:
               | https://www.theverge.com/22275453/reddit-app-pop-up-turn-
               | off...
        
           | kitd wrote:
           | Settings on the mobile page has an option to switch off "Ask
           | to open in app". I don't see the "Use app" button now.
        
             | monocasa wrote:
             | It pretty regularly forgets that setting for me.
        
           | baxtr wrote:
           | Anyone why they try to get users into their app so hard? I
           | mean if people are logging anyway tracking them is feasible
           | on the web too.
        
             | WhyCause wrote:
             | Monetization.
             | 
             | You can't use an ad blocker (easily) in an app, so they get
             | to show you ads.
             | 
             | If you decide to buy reddit gold (or whatever they're
             | calling it now), then they get the money from that instead.
        
             | MrPatan wrote:
             | Yes, it's because an app lets them get more information
             | about you than a website. Even if you don't give an app any
             | permissions (which many people will do anyway).
        
         | alasdair_ wrote:
         | The mobile experience is atrocious. It's exactly what happens
         | when you optimize for short-term value. Forcing people to
         | download the app when they _clearly_ don 't want to is a great
         | way to lose long-term users.
         | 
         | I hate the new layout. I find the video player abysmal and I
         | _loathe_ the mobile experience.
         | 
         | Some of the content is still very good, but I feel like it's
         | lessening as the anti-user hostility intensifies. It's a damn
         | shame.
        
         | villgax wrote:
         | Worst is the lack of attention paid to saved posts, you can
         | only scroll back to latest 1000 until you un-save or offload it
         | you can't view older saved posts
        
         | InvisibleUp wrote:
         | https://i.reddit.com is the old mobile layout, and it still
         | works fine for basic browsing and commenting.
        
         | Guthur wrote:
         | +1 on the mobile, the constant push and underhanded tactics to
         | get me to download app is exceedingly annoying. Reddit is not
         | the only guilty one there, though feel more insistent than
         | many.
        
           | everdrive wrote:
           | I don't even use Reddit on mobile, solely because of this.
        
           | throwaway-8c93 wrote:
           | On Android, Reddit client RedReader is a great showcase of
           | how pleasant and responsive modern applications could be, had
           | they not been hobbled by tracking, ads, in-app purchase
           | nudging, useless client-server roundtrips, etc.
           | 
           | Minimalistic, but clear UI. Subreddits open nearly instantly.
           | Discussion threads open instantly. Comments arranged by
           | upvotes, not by Reddit's opaque scoring algorithm. No visual
           | clutter. Minimal battery usage.
        
             | petepete wrote:
             | I've been a Sync user for years but I have a feeling that
             | Reddit's API is going to be pulled in the not-too-distant
             | future.
             | 
             | Having an ad-free, clean, sensible UI isn't aligned with
             | their current vision.
        
           | executesorder66 wrote:
           | > the constant push and underhanded tactics to get me to
           | download app
           | 
           | The worst one I ever saw said something like "Use the app to
           | avoid tracking"
           | 
           | Like how fucking retarded are you? How is the tracking not
           | 10000 times worse on the app, you lying assholes!?
        
           | PartiallyTyped wrote:
           | The situation with mobile reddit got out of control. It is
           | impossible to browse anything without the app unless it is a
           | post on r/popular or r/all.
           | 
           | Out of spite I downloaded 'a' free reddit client and bought
           | the full version. The constant stream of useless
           | notifications of the official app is just disgusting.
        
             | harryf wrote:
             | https://old.reddit.com is still out there and everything
             | seems to work
        
               | forgotmypw17 wrote:
               | Everything seems to work on the surface, until you
               | actually start using it.
               | 
               | Many newer features are half-implemented or not
               | implemented at all.
               | 
               | Some features which previously worked are broken.
               | 
               | The setting for preference of the old.reddit interface is
               | not stable, and gets reset sometimes.
               | 
               | Even when the setting is preserved, there are nag
               | messages to switch to the new one and/or the app.
               | 
               | Also, I think just calling it "old." feels a bit
               | condescending and patronizing to the user. It certainly
               | communicates that its days are numbered, so why would I
               | want to invest any more of my time into it?
        
               | techer wrote:
               | I regard it as "Old Faithful".
        
               | oldHN wrote:
               | Just use the old reddit extension for Firefox.
        
               | forgotmypw17 wrote:
               | a) I don't use Firefox. I use a particular browser with
               | accessibility accommodations which Firefox does not
               | offer.
               | 
               | b) I doubt that the extension you reference solves most
               | of the issues I mentioned, in particular the broken
               | features.
               | 
               | c) I think beginning your advice with the word "Just"
               | makes it sound condescending and dismissive.
               | 
               | Please consider reading this article:
               | http://archive.is/J2ODQ
        
               | jcims wrote:
               | I'm guessing it was coming from a place of frustration,
               | but as an impartial observer I found your response just
               | as condescending. They should add 'a bullet-list of
               | critiques' to the article.
        
               | forgotmypw17 wrote:
               | Thank you for telling me, I'm going to review my post and
               | try to improve my communication in the future.
               | 
               | Yes, I am quite frustrated with frequently being told
               | that I'm using the wrong browser or have it improperly
               | configured.
        
               | jcims wrote:
               | It's just a limitation of the medium, all I ask is that
               | you call me out when I inevitably do the same. :)
        
               | gruez wrote:
               | >Some features which previously worked are broken.
               | 
               | Examples?
               | 
               | >Also, I think just calling it "old." feels a bit
               | condescending and patronizing to the user. It certainly
               | communicates that its days are numbered, so why would I
               | want to invest any more of my time into it?
               | 
               | I guess they could call it "classic", but that'd be
               | longer to type in the address bar.
        
               | forgotmypw17 wrote:
               | >Examples?
               | 
               | Image galleries.
               | 
               | Mod mail, rules list, and other mod features.
               | 
               | A few others I can't remember and don't care enough to go
               | digging for.
               | 
               | Generally speaking, in the last couple of years, the more
               | I use reddit, the less I want to use it. I've been pretty
               | involved in it for 10+ years and used to love it. Reddit
               | used to be a pretty important part of my life. It took a
               | long time to de-train me from coming back to it, but
               | they've done it. I hardly ever open it anymore, and I've
               | routed www.reddit.com to localhost so that I wouldn't end
               | up on the new design by accident. I've only done that for
               | less than a dozen addresses.
        
               | Diederich wrote:
               | I've been using old.reddit.com since it was introduced,
               | and a large fraction of that use is on mobile.
               | 
               | > Image galleries.
               | 
               | I don't have any trouble with these.
               | 
               | > Mod mail, rules list, and other mod features.
               | 
               | I don't do any moderation on reddit, so I'll take your
               | word for it here.
               | 
               | The biggest, frequent pain point I have with using reddit
               | is their v.reddit.com videos. That is a garbage
               | experience, but from what I understand, that experience
               | is across old and new.
        
               | gruez wrote:
               | >Image galleries.
               | 
               | seems to work fine with RES
        
             | Macha wrote:
             | Yeah, when they follow Twitter and lock down third party
             | apps will end half my Reddit usage and turning off old
             | Reddit the other half.
             | 
             | I would have said in the past that users like me who are
             | resistant to introducing engagement mechanics/monetisation
             | are why they're valued less than the likes of Twitter but
             | recent stats I saw indicated old Reddit was like 15% of
             | desktop users and the official app also had the majority of
             | mobile users so looks like their plan to wait our the
             | dilution of the long term user base is working so maybe
             | that all changes in a few years.
             | 
             | The unbundling suggestions seem like it'd hurt the long
             | tail, a lot of the value that Reddit has to me is the
             | smaller specialised communities which are able to get users
             | because people can eventually get introduced to smaller
             | subreddits from larger subreddits. Cut off that traffic
             | growth path and many of these communities have a much
             | reduced reason to set up on Reddit Vs elsewhere.
             | 
             | The suggestions to move the focus from subreddits to users
             | - it's something Reddit are subtly trying with redesigned
             | profiles and more emphasis on people posting to profiles or
             | following them, but to me it seems counter productive to
             | what I like about Reddit. A subreddit can be kept on topic
             | in a way a user cannot, and actually in many social circles
             | there are pressures on people to make their views known on
             | e.g. politics in twitter, where staying on whatever topic
             | is actually discouraged
        
               | PartiallyTyped wrote:
               | I too am one of those users. I migrated to hackernews,
               | but as you said, reddit offers much more in terms of
               | communities around topics. These communities are absolute
               | goldmines and, to me, it appears that they are the
               | remnants of late 90s to late 2000s internet. I really
               | liked the warez, infosec and hacker* communities of those
               | times, unfortunately, I was too young and to be honest, I
               | haven't gotten around to looking for such communities
               | again.
        
               | ethbr0 wrote:
               | Reddit is a monetization of Usenet.
               | 
               | The farther they drift away from admitting that, the more
               | tenuous their value proposition is going to be.
        
             | lovegoblin wrote:
             | > The constant stream of useless notifications of the
             | official app is just disgusting.
             | 
             | I cannot imagine a world where I would allow reddit to send
             | me _any_ push notifications _ever._
        
             | Guthur wrote:
             | I've no idea what the official app is like, but they're
             | pushing it so hard that I can't imagine it's for my benefit
             | :)
        
               | pbhjpbhj wrote:
               | I just assumed because most people don't be able to block
               | ads. Is the app anything more than a webview that doesn't
               | get sent the 'make it crappy' parts from the server?
        
               | trey-jones wrote:
               | I'm not a heavy reddit user - I don't subscribe to any
               | subreddits or anything like that. But I do have an
               | account and I occasionally post and comment.
               | 
               | I had the mobile app installed for a few months and I
               | thought it was pretty good. I uninstalled it because I
               | was using it to kill time on my phone, and it was
               | becoming habitual (nothing going on? open reddit app). My
               | solution to those types of things is to cut the cord, and
               | I don't ever miss them.
               | 
               | I would call it an upside actually, that I don't even
               | want to browse the site on my phone.
        
               | PartiallyTyped wrote:
               | My cynicism backed hypothesis is that they want
               | telemetry, location tracking and all that kind of stuff.
               | Also knowing Tencent has a stake on Reddit [1], I am even
               | more inclined to avoid it.
               | 
               | [1] https://www.fool.com/investing/2019/02/08/tencent-
               | invests-so...
        
             | bullfightonmars wrote:
             | I was a relatively happy user of the app until they started
             | making text blink in comments. The endless stream of awards
             | was bad enough, but blinking text is where I draw thr line.
        
           | pbhjpbhj wrote:
           | Yes, the blocking of AskHistorians unless you install the app
           | borders on copyright infringement IMO.
           | 
           | If I were that subreddit I'd have my own website with
           | blackjack[ _] and ... the whole share of the ad revenue. And
           | use the money to promote History rather than just to make
           | Conde, or whoever 's, shareholders more wealthy.
           | 
           | * but not actually blackjack, gambling advertising is awful._
        
             | lovegoblin wrote:
             | > the blocking of AskHistorians
             | 
             | What are you referring to here?
        
           | fumblebee wrote:
           | On the bright side, for me at least, the repulsive mobile web
           | experience has meant I spend drastically less time on Reddit.
        
         | Shivetya wrote:
         | At least on iOS the Apollo app is a true alternative to the
         | reddit site/etc
        
         | anothernewdude wrote:
         | rif is still the better app, as is offline reddit.
        
           | spinningarrow wrote:
           | On iOS the Apollo app is truly fantastic. Also one of the
           | best iOS apps I've used in general in terms of user
           | experience.
        
         | melomal wrote:
         | Growth hacker of 8 years here.
         | 
         | This smells like the brilliant plan of endless A/B testing that
         | a unicorn did once, wrote about it on their company blog once
         | it was used up, then everyone else followed.
         | 
         | These are all growth 'levers' which on paper can drastically
         | improve metrics which is what is needed to get those crazy
         | valuations and huge funding rounds. In reality they make the
         | experience poor for the user, however, outside of the tech
         | world most people are not bothered by these tricks.
        
         | bulibuta wrote:
         | I use teddit.net now. Especially on mobile. Reddit has fallen
         | pretty badly :(
        
       | villgax wrote:
       | Anyone interested in using an exporter for saved posts on your
       | reddit account? Mine has a goldmine of stuff from over the years.
        
       | neuronic wrote:
       | The subversive marketing and political astroturfing really annoy
       | me as a long time reddit user.
       | 
       | Nowadays there are companies which sport hundreds or thousands of
       | alt accounts to drive marketing or political agendas. Posts like
       | the Enchroma (scam) advertising on r/pics last week are just the
       | obvious tip of the ice berg.
       | 
       | Companies share post _templates_ to just fill and spread in
       | targeted subreddits. Many mods are paid for channeling the
       | "right" content just like Instagram/YT influencers are paid for
       | product placements.
       | 
       | It's not some hobbyist forum for the more popular subs. It's a
       | marketing engine.
        
         | cirgue wrote:
         | I feel like Reddit is evolving toward convergence with a chum
         | box. It seems as though it was intentionally designed to be
         | vulnerable to bad faith commercial activity, and its popularity
         | is sort of sickening. Watching a bunch of kids sink their
         | personal cash into a moribund pink sheet stock as part of a
         | pump and dump and the subsequent David vs Goliath astroturfing
         | was among the most depressing things I've ever witnessed on the
         | internet.
        
         | PragmaticPulp wrote:
         | The real money is in capturing subreddit moderators.
         | 
         | It's an open secret in the PR industry that if you can get
         | moderators of popular subreddits (for your market) on your
         | side, then it's easy to throw the conversation in your favor.
         | 
         | Moderators are the invisible hand the sway the conversation on
         | Reddit. They have immense power to remove posts and comments
         | that they disagree with.
         | 
         | PR companies are more than happy to arrange for subreddit
         | moderators to receive free product, chats with company
         | executives, even trips for office or factory tours. It makes
         | the moderators feel like they're "in" with the company, and
         | they began moderating accordingly.
         | 
         | In some cases, popular subreddit moderators simply start their
         | own businesses selling to particular subreddits. Some of them
         | truly are honest, but others are looking to make a quick buck
         | selling courses, putting affiliate links in subreddit Wikis and
         | other activities.
        
           | hnuser123456 wrote:
           | /r/redditminusmods
        
           | tpmx wrote:
           | In the semi-official national subreddits for e.g. small-ish
           | European countries you mostly see politics being pushed from
           | moderators rather than products. I've grown quite suspicious
           | of that lately, for the same reason.
        
             | throwaway0a5e wrote:
             | All the $LOCATION subs have a strong political leaning,
             | mostly in the same direction, with some $LOCATION specific
             | variance generally permitted.
        
               | neuronic wrote:
               | Yes, r/de for Germany is a heavily left leaning sub which
               | routinely bans right opinion (note, I am not saying right
               | extreme).
               | 
               | Don't dare criticizing communism either, it's especially
               | fun having West German 18yo students yell at me for
               | disliking socialism as a former Soviet Union citizen.
        
               | [deleted]
        
               | neverminder wrote:
               | Exactly the same can be said about r/uk with it's trigger
               | happy mods. Their bashing of "fascists" is rather ironic,
               | considering their heavy handed tactics.
        
               | krtkush wrote:
               | Add r/india to the list too.
        
               | [deleted]
        
           | troyvit wrote:
           | I haven't read the article yet but I'm pretty sure the awful
           | practices you and the parent post are describing are the real
           | reasons why reddit is undervalued.
        
             | neuronic wrote:
             | Correct that's why I called it marketing engine. It's not
             | open about it though.
        
           | romanovcode wrote:
           | To add to your posts. Around 50 most popular sub-reddits are
           | moderated by the same people.
        
           | jseliger wrote:
           | The moderator problem was noticeable years ago:
           | https://jakeseliger.com/2015/03/16/the-moderator-problem-
           | how... and has become more evident today.
        
           | Accujack wrote:
           | >The real money is in capturing subreddit moderators.
           | 
           | Right. This also leads to some of the clearest evidence that
           | Reddit (the corporation) isn't interested in actually being a
           | discussion board, but has completely given itself over to
           | leveraging its user base for money.
           | 
           | Despite years of issues with subreddit mods selling out,
           | taking over, censoring users, in general behaving badly and a
           | complete lack of transparency, Reddit has changed nothing
           | about how that system works.
        
             | neverminder wrote:
             | > Reddit has changed nothing about how that system works
             | 
             | I'd say they have changed for the worse. In recent years
             | they have quarantined or banned many even remotely
             | controversial subreddits. Reddit admins are increasingly
             | forcing SV's political ideology onto it's users. Ramping up
             | censorship will be the end of Reddit, as users leave to
             | look for alternatives.
        
             | novok wrote:
             | If they did, then they would have to pay them for their
             | free labor and thats a can they do not want to open.
        
         | doc_gunthrop wrote:
         | > The subversive marketing and political astroturfing really
         | annoy me as a long time reddit user.
         | 
         | It's not as if Hacker News is immune to this. Pay attention to
         | some of the posts being pushed to the front page and the
         | associated comments and you may notice similar shenanigans
         | occuring here. This applies doubly so if the post is made
         | during the weekend.[1]
         | 
         | Considering the fact that many users on HN are reddit
         | transplants, there is the inevitable spillover effect. Comments
         | of the lowbrow variety have become more commonplace (e.g.
         | comment threads made of low-hanging puns).
         | 
         | Without strict moderation, this site too will devolve. After
         | all, you can take the redditor out of reddit but you can't take
         | the reddit out of the redditor.
         | 
         | [1]: As one example, a couple weeks ago there was a new account
         | created by a user for the sole purpose of selling their book on
         | HN; they've only been active on that account for that one
         | single post and (I strongly suspect) they used alts to
         | artificially boost their post to the front page.
        
           | colejohnson66 wrote:
           | At least here, we can flag-kill spam. On Reddit, flags go to
           | the moderators to deal with. I will give you that: if @dang
           | or @sctb are paid off, we'd be in trouble.
        
         | surge wrote:
         | Yeah, reddit has suffered it's Eternal September several times
         | over. The astroturfing and low value content/commentary makes
         | the default front page with the default sub-reddits like
         | looking at a magazine rack at the check out counter. The niche
         | sub-reddits (non-default) are sometimes worth going to but have
         | their own issues with being echo chambers. In either case, I've
         | reduced my usage of the site and been looking for other
         | alternatives (besides this one) that I can kind of get in on
         | the ground floor with.
        
           | edrxty wrote:
           | And in the vein of Eternal September, they're accidentally
           | created a moat to prevent anyone from creating a board with
           | its own unique culture because:
           | 
           | A) everyone assumes reddit culture is internet culture and
           | will transplant it everywhere (see HN over the years)
           | 
           | B) reddit is big enough to have captured a large portion of
           | internet discourse and therefore people who are deemed
           | unwelcome are a significant portion of those who _aren 't_ on
           | the platform. If you attempt to start a board, you'll quickly
           | find that those individuals will descend on it and destroy it
           | with hate unless you have exceptional moderation capacity.
        
       | justapassenger wrote:
       | Current internet model for products like that is ads revenue.
       | Reddit ads are very irrelevant and most of the time straight out
       | bad.
       | 
       | Getting ads to work isn't easy. It's very competitive space, and
       | barrier to entry is really high (you won't get serious money
       | spent with you, if you don't deliver ROI).
       | 
       | While Reddit does provide a lot of unique utility, as a business
       | its is still questionable.
        
         | romanovcode wrote:
         | > While Reddit does provide a lot of unique utility, as a
         | business its is still questionable.
         | 
         | With paid-off moderators, astrosurfing and propaganda I'd say
         | it's unethical at best.
        
       | citizenpaul wrote:
       | All social media sites except 4chan and Facebook die after a
       | while being the #1 spot. I think the reality is that its not
       | undervalued. Reddit is reaching its peak and inevitable collapse.
       | 
       | Seems to me like either you become the #1 and stay there ie
       | Facebook; or you make a complete disposable cluster'fk ie 4chan.
       | There does not seem to be room for a middle ground.
        
       | vagrantJin wrote:
       | It might not be undervalued if the mobile app wasn't trash.
        
       | yunruse wrote:
       | As interesting as these data are, I'm not sure if there's
       | necessarily anything wrong with the value of reddit's MAU. As the
       | post lays out, it has a liminal feel to it, but that sorta loses
       | its punch if you put all thrusters into redesigning without any
       | clear goal.
       | 
       | As it stands, I find reddit's award system nice in principle, but
       | in practice it feels so obnoxious that, ironically, I paid for a
       | third-party client that smooths over the UI weirdnesses and hides
       | this layer. But it ultimately remains a layer on top of things
       | that can be hidden. Change that up, and it becomes something the
       | user can't ignore, and you risk damaging community at the expense
       | of profit.
        
       | optimalsolver wrote:
       | FYI, Reddit doesn't care if you complain about the site, as long
       | as you still use it.
        
       | cwhiz wrote:
       | No better place to build your own bubble and insulate yourself
       | from any thoughts, opinions, or ideas that might make you
       | uncomfortable.
       | 
       | And don't forget the massive astroturfing, corporate bots, paid
       | off moderators, and karma system that is designed to be
       | addictive.
       | 
       | It's definitely undervalued in terms of how great of a place it
       | is to sow division and push people to more extreme political
       | thoughts.
        
       | buttholesurfer wrote:
       | It's a shame reddit has become an echo chamber for the far left.
       | 
       | For example try posting anything right of extreme left on the
       | wrongly named subreddit /r/politics. You will get banned
       | instantly and if you don't get banned you'll be met with hundreds
       | of downvotes in a matter of minutes. The sub /r/pics might as
       | well be /r/liberalpropaganda, /r/news should be /r/leftnews.
       | These are just a few examples.
       | 
       | Let's not forget the part where the CEO changes users comments.
       | 
       | Reddit should be avoided.
        
       | williesleg wrote:
       | Welcome to digg. That's what happened to them right before they
       | went out. It's been fun.
        
       | jC6fhrfHRLM9b3 wrote:
       | Reddit is a leftist echo chamber
        
       | c7DJTLrn wrote:
       | What _is_ Reddit 's value? There's no secret sauce, its
       | popularity just comes from the network effect. The UI/UX post-
       | redesign is horrible and slow, and the site is bombarded with
       | politics and hatred.
       | 
       | I've had a few Reddit accounts over the years and always deleted
       | them after a few posts. Nobody is capable of having a decent
       | debate without ad hominems, strawman arguments, and downvote
       | bombing. Any opinion against the grain will be silenced and
       | probably just banned. For this reason I actually think Reddit is
       | one of the worse social media sites. I only use it to consume
       | content now and try to stay away from the main subreddits.
        
         | lrem wrote:
         | Huh? Well, Reddit is a platform, not a community. A sane usage
         | pattern is to come for a sub, create an account and immediately
         | unsubscribe from all the other subs. I find the communities I
         | participate in not as bad as you describe. But a community
         | defined as "everyone who cares about politics" is simply
         | doomed.
         | 
         | Now, to answer your original question: the value Reddit
         | provides is having a single account for all my communities,
         | instead of registering to umpteen PhpBB. This allows for a much
         | more efficient antispam. Also more efficient ads, so they do
         | have a business out of this.
        
         | everdrive wrote:
         | >Nobody is capable of having a decent debate without ad
         | hominems, strawman arguments, and downvote bombing.
         | 
         | Definitely the same experience here. Holding a conversation on
         | reddit is usually not a pleasant experience. There's tons of
         | great information on reddit, but it's a diamond in the rough
         | sort of situation.
        
         | P_I_Staker wrote:
         | My experience hasn't been so rough, but I agree overall.
         | Discussions are REALLY hit or miss. I've commented a fair
         | amount there, and some of the conversations are pretty great.
         | It's like a 33%-33%-33%. You get a good conversation, a
         | terrible one, or nobody notices.
         | 
         | I agree about reddit's value being elusive. AFAIK this is
         | because it arguably isn't so valuable. They don't seem to
         | monetize excessively. It's not like Facebook that really feels
         | like an advertising and data shilling firm. There's just a jpeg
         | on the side panel. I imagine they sell some data, maybe even
         | pay to win? (or they will soon)
         | 
         | Reddit is very valuable in that it essentially controls society
         | and "influences" people's behavior. It remains to be seen how
         | much of that can be turned into money, and how it'll effect the
         | site. I wouldn't be shocked to see another exodus, sale, and
         | rebranding as a new media company, like Digg in the next 5-10
         | years... I wouldn't predict it, but I wouldn't be surprised
         | either.
        
         | throwaway0a5e wrote:
         | >What is Reddit's value
         | 
         | Reputation.
         | 
         | If Toyota and Kitchenaid started selling dead bloated racoons
         | with their respective badges on them people would still be
         | buying them 20yr from now because a bunch of people on Reddit
         | (who already bought in based on prior Redditors' commentary)
         | and don't want to feel like fools) told them to buy that brand.
         | 
         | It's no different than any other company selling out its brand
         | name.
         | 
         | I fully agree that the userbase is just politness colored
         | lipstick on the old 4chan pig (every "platform" where riff raff
         | from one niche can easily show up and crap all over another
         | niche has this problem) but that doesn't really impact their
         | ability to make money as a business.
        
         | screye wrote:
         | Reddit is the only all encompassing hobbyist forum still
         | remaining on the internet.
         | 
         | I follow my favorite youtubers on their subreddit. I have spent
         | countless hours discussing manga, cars, soccer, politics (in a
         | civil way), find prog bands, food science and so much more.
         | 
         | I can say this confidently: "None of those activities would be
         | as much fun if I did not have my fellow redditors to enjoy it
         | with."
         | 
         | The main subreddits are trash, but that's the point. Reddit
         | might just be able to rapidly scale up to letting normies in,
         | without letting the first-adopters feel like reddit has lost
         | its charm. Specifically, there will be 2 reddits. One would be
         | the front page with a tiktok-esque stream of memes, outrage and
         | short videos; and the other would be the niche subreddits that
         | function similarly to hacker news in terms of strict moderation
         | and deliberate inaccessibility.
         | 
         | Now I am not sure if this genius of reddit is intentional or if
         | the founders stumbled into what is probably the only survival
         | plan for a business where scaling up inevitably leads to a huge
         | drop in the value proposition of the platform itself.
         | 
         | Conde Nast made an incredible acquisition; and not having the
         | market pressures of a public company might have something to do
         | with Reddit's success.
         | 
         | _________
         | 
         | edit: because I must shill for them some more
         | 
         | Reddit is also THE PLACE on the internet for the best surreal
         | humour and organic decentralized art as social experiences.
         | Subreddits like r/196, r/2meirl42meirl4meirl and r/kenm are
         | completely inaccessible without knowing the meta-story around
         | them, but have me rolling on the floor like nothing else.
         | r/place is the most well known reddit decentralized art
         | experience, but r/hqg, and r/youdontsurf create humor and art
         | from a constrained format that can be so meta that the entire
         | front page could be purely self-referential.
        
           | colineartheta wrote:
           | As a fellow redditor, I just wanted to say that your final
           | paragraph perfectly puts to words my enjoyment of those
           | wildly strange and wonderfully creative self-referential
           | subreddits. So, thanks, for your words.
        
             | screye wrote:
             | :)
             | 
             | I edited it in later. I felt an urge to say it, because it
             | is an aspect of reddit that often goes unappreciated.
        
           | blacktriangle wrote:
           | The bigger question is: why must hobbyist forums be all-
           | encompassing? Setting up a phpbb is trivial, so what is the
           | advantage to me the user having a single identity linking my
           | professional conversations about software with my more casual
           | conversations about unicycle rally racing?
        
             | screye wrote:
             | Convenience and consistency.
             | 
             | I was a big user of forums before reddit, and I am glad it
             | has centralized.
             | 
             | IMO, it is pretty obvious. It is the same reason any social
             | media website has 1 identity for everything on it.
             | 
             | > linking professional conversations and casual
             | conversations
             | 
             | You know you can alt accounts right ?
        
               | mostlysimilar wrote:
               | "Having a single identity for all of your interests is
               | more convenient" and "you can have multiple identities to
               | keep your interests separate" seem like pretty
               | contradictory statements.
        
               | astrobe_ wrote:
               | Yes they are, and yes some users want both at the same
               | time. Users are complicated.
        
             | mywittyname wrote:
             | I can think of many reasons, but I'll limit them to:
             | 
             | 1. visibility - it is easier for users to find the
             | community on reddit. Both from search engines, and
             | "organically" on reddit.
             | 
             | 2. foot traffic - users don't need to remember that you
             | exist to visit, once a sub is in a user's feed, they will
             | see all of the new posts.
             | 
             | 3. Setting up a server and installing forum software might
             | be "easy," but it is still much more difficult than setting
             | up a subreddit.
             | 
             | The only real benefit to setting up a phpbb server is that
             | you might get some revenue from ad traffic once the
             | userbase grows up some.
        
               | lotsofpulp wrote:
               | I think the difficulty in setting up a server and
               | installing forum software is eclipsed by the time,
               | effort, and liability stress from moderating the content
               | and dealing with illegal or undesireable content /
               | malware.
               | 
               | To me, one of the impressive things about Reddit is how
               | they have managed to be a mainstream site with porn, and
               | how they manage to keep it off their front page.
        
               | wccrawford wrote:
               | Probably true, but people don't learn that until after
               | they've set up a subreddit and it's gotten somewhat
               | successful.
               | 
               | For their own site, they're immediately hit with a wall
               | of pain as they try to figure out what all they need to
               | know just to get their first user. And there's nothing
               | driving those users to their new forum, either.
        
           | opportune wrote:
           | I think the easiest way to implement the "2 Reddits" idea
           | would to just have old.reddit.com's contents be exclusive to
           | old Reddit. I doubt many long time users like the facebook-
           | ish UI which is designed to serve you full screen ads
        
         | ApolloFortyNine wrote:
         | Reddit is a good example of "tyranny by majority" in my
         | opinion. You can see it in action with downvoting opinions
         | people simply don't agree with. It doesn't matter if you have a
         | dozen sources if the 51% simply downvote it for disagreeing.
         | 
         | And Reddit's UI design is truly terrible. I know it's for
         | fitting in more ads, but going from seeing 20 posts per page,
         | and an ad mixed in, to see 2 (sometimes even 1) post that may
         | be an ad is insane.
        
           | P_I_Staker wrote:
           | IME reddit isn't that bad, but it is bad. I can get a good
           | comment upvoted, but not 100% of the time. It's like 50-75%
           | of my comments depending on the tone or disagreement.
           | 
           | Some really batty and bigoted stuff gets upvoted all the
           | time, but IMO the platform is overall very left leaning. It
           | can be pretty inconsistent.
           | 
           | Communities like HN are better, but elsewhere on social media
           | it can get really bad. Digg was horrendous. I don't think I
           | saw a single unpopular opinion not get buried into oblivion.
           | Then I switched to reddit and it's that solid 50-75% I
           | mentioned. You might have to pander or sugar coat it, but you
           | can get the idea out there. It was a big improvement. I think
           | reddit is a cesspool for other reasons.
        
         | neutronicus wrote:
         | It is a good platform for hobby communities, because it is:
         | 
         | 1. Pseudonymous
         | 
         | 2. Location-agnostic
         | 
         | 3. Comments are structured as a tree instead of a flattened
         | list, and nodes at the same level are sorted by popularity
         | 
         | Old-school message boards met the first two requirements, but I
         | think the third characteristic is a huge improvement over
         | trying to pick the discussion out of the multiple simultaneous
         | flamewars with which it was interleaved on comp.lang.lisp or
         | any of the old phpBB. On a hobby subreddit generally the top
         | reply and its highest-ranked comment chain are on-topic and
         | informative.
         | 
         | Its biggest competition now is probably something like Facebook
         | Groups, but Facebook is constantly trying to push you towards
         | real-name-focused, location-aware stuff, and its implementation
         | of a comment tree is pretty half-assed because at the end of
         | the day it wants you scrolling a feed, not lingering on a
         | heavily-ramified comment tree. At the moment my wife and I use
         | Facebook for neighborhood groups and Reddit for hobby
         | subreddits (and memes).
        
           | throwaway0a5e wrote:
           | 3 is absolutely terrible for discussion of topics with even
           | the slightest amount of complexity and nuance to them or
           | topics where the discussion would occur over more than a
           | short time. You get unique top level comments but the up-
           | voted stuff is just lowest common denominator and the tree
           | below that initial first level winds up highly replicated.
           | Then there's the inherent fake consensus problem of the
           | upvote/downvote system.
        
         | tomjen3 wrote:
         | Basically everything that has a chance to show up on /r/all is
         | trash.
         | 
         | Checking out what people in /r/country suggests for turists
         | before you visit is pretty valuable. So is advice in
         | /r/slowcooking, /r/yourhobby and so forth. Basically it allows
         | people to create communities even if they have on technical
         | skills.
        
           | Mediterraneo10 wrote:
           | The membership of /r/country subs skews heavily towards
           | teenagers and people in their early twenties. They aren't a
           | very good source of tourist advice, because they haven't had
           | the opportunity in their lives yet to travel much themselves.
           | Also, they tend to be a demographic that identifies itself as
           | cosmopolitan and English-speaking, to the point where they
           | are often ashamed of rural and folkloric traditions that
           | tourists would be interested in.
        
         | throwaway-8c93 wrote:
         | How much value can you get our of Reddit heavily depends on
         | which subreddits you subscribe to. r/news or r/politics is a
         | cesspool.
         | 
         | r/askhistorians is pure gold. Hobbyist subreddits are extremely
         | valuable - discussions are polite, to the point, high-quality
         | posts get consistently upvoted. r/coronavirus and r/COVID19
         | have been pivotal in making sense of the situation in early
         | March (though r/coronavirus turned into a parody of the former
         | self once Covid started spreading in the US). r/nottheonion or
         | r/gaming are often hilarious.
         | 
         | There are three important steps to turn Reddit into a useful
         | tool:
         | 
         | - Unsubscribe from the subreddits you find toxic
         | 
         | - Learn to use 'Sort by Top - this week/day'
         | 
         | - On PC, visit old.reddit.com instead of reddit.com. On mobile,
         | use a third-party client like RedReader or Appolo
        
           | throwaway0a5e wrote:
           | I know a great deal about a few topics. Based on the quality
           | of discussion of those topics on Reddit I have zero reason to
           | believe that any content of a deeper than "asking questions
           | so shallow you could Google them and the blog spam sites
           | would have the unambiguously correct answer" is of high
           | enough quality to be trustworthy.
        
           | jhedwards wrote:
           | > Hobbyist subreddits are extremely valuable
           | 
           | I recently subscribed to r/AskElectronics and I have been
           | amazed at the supportiveness of the community. Every time
           | I've posted a picture of some stupid noob mistake I made, I
           | get a deluge of responses helping me understand in detail
           | what I did wrong, along with some good-natured stories of
           | people remembering when they made the same mistake. It's
           | lovely, I'd bake every one of them a pie if I could.
        
           | jcims wrote:
           | For really small subreddits that don't have much activity,
           | you can access the most recent comments directly by tagging
           | on /comments to the subreddit url, e.g.
           | https://www.reddit.com/r/firewater/comments/
        
           | kfajdsl wrote:
           | > On PC, visit old.reddit.com
           | 
           | There's a setting that makes it so you default to the old UI,
           | whether you're on old.reddit.com or just reddit.com.
        
           | P_I_Staker wrote:
           | Yeah, I do the synthesizer sub on reddit and it's pretty
           | chill. Running / synthesizers / pianolearning have been
           | nothing, but positive. People are on their best behavior
           | because they don't want to ruin it or be the bad apple.
        
           | Accujack wrote:
           | > r/coronavirus and r/COVID19 have been pivotal in making
           | sense of the situation in early March (though r/coronavirus
           | turned into a parody of the former self once Covid started
           | spreading in the US).
           | 
           | I watched this happen first hand. It went from being a solid
           | scientific discussion and sharing of information to being
           | another part of Reddit's control system for public opinion.
           | It just underwent that transformation faster than most subs
           | do because of the impetus of the pandemic.
        
         | Mediterraneo10 wrote:
         | For me, the problem isn't the politics. On many special-
         | interest subreddits for various hobbies you avoid the politics
         | almost entirely. The problem is that gradually over the years,
         | the vast majority of people posting on Reddit have been using
         | mobile phones.
         | 
         | Because mobile keyboards are so annoying to type on length on,
         | that has resulted in posts getting shorter and shorter, down to
         | one-line Twitter-like replies that are almost information-free
         | and don't provide much of the skillsharing that people used to
         | turn to hobby forums for. If you post a couple of solid
         | paragraphs, the same length of text that was normal on Reddit
         | just a few years ago, you look weird and out of place among the
         | one-line posts. You might even get some mockery: "haha wall of
         | text bro".
         | 
         | I would love to leave Reddit entirely and return to the phpBB
         | forums of yore where substantial conversation could continue.
         | The problem is that Reddit has eaten their userbase, leaving
         | only a handful of elderly people or cranks, and the feeling of
         | a ghost town.
        
           | P_I_Staker wrote:
           | Yeah, I agree it shouldn't take you minutes to read a
           | comment, but 0.5-2m is acceptable. You can read 3 paragraphs,
           | get that weak shit out of here.
           | 
           | Then people act like they're totally pwning you by not
           | participating in conversation (which is fine, but then just
           | STFU). This is something I do for fun. It's a hobby, I don't
           | care about the time. No need to be a jerk about it. They
           | probably kick over people's sandcastles, too.
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | touristtam wrote:
         | The same can be said from any media that gives its user a
         | voice, from the current website to Twitter.
        
         | opportune wrote:
         | Reddit is so popular that the "quality" of users has become
         | very poor just by sheer virtue of the number of people using
         | it. Also the 25-75%ile ages are probably like 17-24 so there is
         | a good chance you're having a conversation with actual
         | teenagers
        
           | AJ007 wrote:
           | A low quality comment: you don't even know if it a person. In
           | 2021 you actually need a coherent multi-paragraph post, and a
           | lot of them, to separate a human from a bot. Presumably,
           | there are also a tremendous amount of fake accounts
           | regurgitating low quality information in order to help bump
           | specific posts. That is a perverse incentive of the way their
           | system is structured. The same can/does happen on hn but that
           | activity has some counterbalances.
           | 
           | Reddit strikes me as being well in to its post-spam usenet
           | phase. Instead of being drowned in blatant spam, it is
           | drowned in noise.
           | 
           | A recurring complaint I've heard from friends - experts on
           | narrow topics - is that particular subreddits around a given
           | topic are just dominated with incorrect information. This
           | isn't political. It isn't opinionated. It is topics that may
           | have ranges of correctness, but posters are just repeating
           | things that are completely wrong - as if they have no
           | personal experience in the subject.
           | 
           | That is a big problem. If you were to look at various more
           | political and activist subreddits (including banned ones that
           | migrated elsewhere), the conclusion may be that many reddit
           | user's lives are far worse off with it. When the blind are
           | leading the blind off the side of a cliff, the outcome is
           | predictable.
        
         | momento wrote:
         | I must agree with the points on the UI/UX. I just opened the
         | app and 95% of what I see on the screen I do not care about.
         | The fact that only 1 list item is immediately available to me
         | as a user is just bizzare.
         | 
         | https://i.imgur.com/YwHTQWa.png: I have highlighted what
         | actually matters to me as user.
         | 
         | There's just so much noise in this new UI. All I want to see is
         | the title, the source, the subreddit the post belongs to, how
         | many comments it has, and MAYBE the upvote count. Put all the
         | navigation stuff in a hidden drawer - it doesn't need to be on
         | the screen all the time and let me switch off these silly
         | awards (or at least tone them down). The rest of the screen is
         | taken up by elements that simply don't need to be on the screen
         | all the time. The search bar can be put in a menu to free up
         | space for more posts. The thumbnails don't need to be there all
         | the time. I don't need an immediately available button to buy
         | Reddit coins / awards. The new awards system (while lucrative)
         | is a complete eyesore and often takes up as much space (if not
         | more) than the title of the post itself.
         | 
         | I cannot express how grateful I am that HN as opted to remain
         | with this simple UI. It's all we need.
        
           | wombat-man wrote:
           | the old reddit UI is a lot better and you can still use it.
           | The new reddit UI has been around for a while now, and I
           | think it's actually getting slower. I really tried to like
           | it, but I opted out a month or two ago.
        
         | nerdponx wrote:
         | I have posted elsewhere about the value of Reddit. Even if you
         | ignore the massive network effects, the _main_ value is:
         | 
         | 1. Sign up once, log in everywhere
         | 
         | 2. Follow and interact with all of your communities (and groups
         | of related communities) all on the same platform.
         | 
         | 3. Better UX for browsing/scanning and text-oriented
         | conversations (no avatars/signatures, collapsible threads) than
         | traditional bulletin boards.
         | 
         | 4. Greater sense of interactivity and participation through
         | upvoting, with a natural flow towards posting. First you read
         | logged out, then you make an account just to upvote and
         | downvote a few things, and finally you make a comment or two.
         | Again, lacking an analogue in other platforms.
         | 
         | No other platform has even come close to this except HN, and HN
         | is still _one_ community, not a network of easily-cross-
         | linkable thousands.
         | 
         | To disrupt Reddit 7 years ago you just needed to recognize this
         | and do the same thing but better. To disrupt Reddit now, IDK
         | good luck, inertia is real.
        
       | felix1996 wrote:
       | I think Imgur is one of the first unbundling examples which I
       | think at one point had alexa rank lower than reddit.
        
       | greg387 wrote:
       | Thanks for posting!
        
       | SideburnsOfDoom wrote:
       | Parts of reddit are of large negative value to the world. But I
       | guess those are social externalities from the advertiser's point
       | of view.
        
       | est wrote:
       | China has an MAU just behind Germany? Is this a glitch in the
       | Wall?
        
       | Mindwipe wrote:
       | I really hope Greg Isenburg is never given any power over any
       | website I care about.
       | 
       | These are all awful ideas.
        
       | ElectricMind wrote:
       | Any thing where people are product is not undervalued. Question
       | should why they valued non-zero?
        
         | dmos62 wrote:
         | I really enjoyed how alien your phrasing seems. I understand it
         | and I don't at the same time. It takes some time to realise
         | that the order of words is non-standard and some filler words
         | are missing. A very pleasant dissonance.
        
           | 4ggr0 wrote:
           | Why waste time say lot word when few word do trick.
        
       | lucideer wrote:
       | > _The mobile experience was improved_
       | 
       | This has already been said, but needs it's own dedicated comment.
       | 
       | In isolation one might think this comment is sarcasm, but seeing
       | it in context in the article it seems genuine enough. If so, the
       | author has likely never used Reddit, so it's odd to be calling on
       | them to write an article on it.
       | 
       | A little bit of research shows the author seems to be known for
       | selling a few companies I've never heard of pretty early on after
       | they've been founded, so I guess their main expertise is exits.
       | One would still think they would've used Reddit once or twice
       | though...
        
         | TACIXAT wrote:
         | Their mobile site is now a deluge of prompts trying to get you
         | to download their app. They've broken the ability to easily
         | view comment threads. It is seriously such trash.
         | 
         | I find myself accidentally tapping something that either opens
         | something new or closes what I was looking at. The back button
         | behavior is bad with the post pop overs. The home page doesn't
         | even preserve scroll position when going back from a post
         | (Safari iOS)!
         | 
         | It is not a website I visit regularly anymore. Someone should
         | do a github1s equivalent for reddit, even if it is read only.
        
           | rakoo wrote:
           | > Someone should do a github1s equivalent for reddit, even if
           | it is read only
           | 
           | https://teddit.net/
        
           | lucideer wrote:
           | I assume you must be talking about the mobile app, rather
           | than the "mobile experience" of the Reddit website. And it's
           | just occurred to me that the author may have been referring
           | to the same.
           | 
           | I've never used the app but I presume it is a lot better than
           | the mobile website.
        
         | Firebrand wrote:
         | The mobile experience has improved for "normies" looking to
         | consume funny pictures and videos on /r/popular, not the power
         | users who comment or use niche subreddits.
         | 
         | The Reddit app's push for live-streaming and their recent
         | acquisition of DubSmash makes me suspect they're looking to
         | compete with TikTok as well.
        
       | FriendlyNormie wrote:
       | Another episode of soy chugger sucks reddit's dick. You're all
       | such pathetic unimaginative faggots.
        
       | thundergolfer wrote:
       | Unbundling the big subreddits is an interesting idea, but further
       | meddling with the activity of a subreddit's valuable core users
       | is more likely to destroy the value of that community than unlock
       | it.
       | 
       | Reddit's enduring quality comes from its supporting of a basic
       | platform that allows continuous growth of some niche subreddits
       | until they 'fail' and scare away its core users, having those
       | core users found new niche subreddits which themselves go
       | mainstream and 'fail'. Rinse repeat.
       | 
       | r/WallStreetBets was an enormous social media success story but I
       | have huge doubts that Reddit could give a team the job of
       | unbundling that sub without that team poisoning the magic.
       | 
       | The "meaningful upgrades" I thought were pretty solid.
        
       | seastonATccs wrote:
       | buying stock in /r/wallstreetbets?
       | 
       | Are we now approaching metameme stock?
        
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