[HN Gopher] How to be more productive without forcing yourself
___________________________________________________________________
How to be more productive without forcing yourself
Author : vitabenes
Score : 234 points
Date : 2021-02-19 10:27 UTC (12 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.deprocrastination.co)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.deprocrastination.co)
| Terretta wrote:
| The idea to avoid fun things seems off the mark. Perhaps:
|
| 1. Avoid facile things.
|
| Things that aren't facile involve difficulty which in turn can
| involve learning, challenge, mistakes, or other things your brain
| finds painful. To know more tomorrow than you knew yesterday, you
| may have to remember why it seemed fun to touch the stove.
|
| Have a hard look at what you do rather than work and whether each
| is genuinely fun. If it's genuine fun, you likely don't regret
| the time spent. More often, the things done instead of work, when
| looked back on, were not meaningfully rewarding. You're not the
| better for having spent time on them.
|
| This also helps you decide among "fun" things. For instance,
| between these two guilty pleasures: binge Netflix, or binge an
| airport novel?
|
| The second one subconsciously reminds you that reading can be
| fun, and rehabilitates your ability to focus on reading at
| length, so primes you to be able to read and learn rapidly as
| needed to maintain mastery in your profession.
|
| Anecdata suggests that for coming back from burnout on
| activities, facility-based alternatives are better than abject
| avoidance.
| emsign wrote:
| I found the "get bored" astonishing. I used to lie down on bed
| when I was younger and just think and do nothing. That always
| motivated me to keep doing stuff throughout the day. I really got
| excited after a couple of minutes to continue or start a new
| task. Unfortunately that trick doesn't work anymore, now I'd just
| fall asleep. On the other hand I don't suffer from insomnia
| anymore.
| ramraj07 wrote:
| When I had to prep for the GRE, for a month I would go in the
| early morning to my dad's office (he only uses it for a few
| hours) and study there. And there was nothing in the office. No
| other books, no tv, and the internet wasn't as much fun then.
| So I had only two options: study or sleep. Obviously I slept a
| lot, but there's only so much you can sleep! So I ended up
| studying very well and getting really good scores (not that it
| mattered a rats ass in the end).
| yetihehe wrote:
| I think sleeping a lot helped with getting those scores.
| ccmcarey wrote:
| I can't believe what I'm reading.
|
| The first point is literally do less fun things so you get used
| to doing more boring things.
|
| I'm genuinely shocked this article is being received so well.
| What happened to, work to live, not live to work?
| blacktriangle wrote:
| I think in this case "fun" is a bit of an overloaded word. In
| this context fun means low effort high dopamine rewards, things
| like gaming, TV, social media, porn, drugs and alcohol. What's
| weird is that these categories of activities when overused
| quickly become non-fun and just addictive.
|
| The overall idea is to recalibrate your idea of fun towards
| higher effort rewards, which will often result in better work,
| which will then allow you to financially reach a position where
| you can work to live, instead of always having to worry about
| work.
| vitabenes wrote:
| Well put, that was the intended meaning.
| calebm wrote:
| I see this as similar to "stop eating high-sugar foods and
| you'll come to appreciate more varied and complex foods." Some
| of the most enjoyable things in life are more subtle.
| 0wis wrote:
| My viewpoint is that to enjoy the part of your life which is
| not work, you have to get your work done.
|
| Between workaholic and master procrastinator, there is a large
| gray area of healthy relationship to work. This line resonates
| with my experience : if I do a lot of hyper stimulating things,
| I struggle to get to work.
|
| Happy for you if procrastination is not a part of your life but
| it can be a struggle for a lot of people.
| peach45 wrote:
| This seems like cheap advice that's trying to get me to buy into
| a lifestyle in order to sell me things.
|
| "Have less exposure towards super fun things". "Get bored". These
| describe the same general concept as dopamine fasting. The third
| bullet point can be reduced to "focus on what you have to do,
| until you can focus on it" which is circular.
|
| I'm not buying in. Maybe I'm getting old but "failure to start"
| is starting to sound like a meme to me perpetuated by vultures
| trying to exploit creative personalities, hackers included.
|
| I think what we need to do, is to step back and appreciate
| ourselves for the effort we continually expect from ourselves. As
| hackers in one way or another, we are constantly putting up our
| ego as collateral in order to take on challenges that threaten to
| knock us down a peg or two if we fail. For many of us, failure is
| a threat to the core of our identity, yet we dive on in anyway.
| Exhaustion from that sort of loop is to be expected.
|
| Most people don't live like this. Most people reduce the flux in
| their lives instead of seeking to increase it. Why? Because most
| people cherish their egos to the point where they cannot commit
| to a goal with an uncertain outcome. They would rather work a
| 9-5, which is fine, but it doesn't describe our community. We are
| addicted to risk if it means building something new and that we
| can call our own.
|
| So appreciate yourselves more.
|
| And get better sleep.
| yetihehe wrote:
| Not everyone procrastinates for the same reasons. I wish I
| could do more, but after reading that article I'm fairly sure
| I'm just exhausted, not procrastinating.
| mrfredward wrote:
| >This seems like cheap advice that's trying to get me to buy
| into a lifestyle in order to sell me things.
|
| Funny but I thought the exact opposite. People believe
| something much more easily when they want it to be true, so the
| typical sales approach is to tell people what they want to
| hear. Ridding your life of whatever seems most fun doesn't seem
| like cheap advice in that regard.
|
| On the other hand, I think you're spot on with creative types
| too often getting exploited, and the involvement of ego being
| such a key factor in why/how we hackers get burned out.
| zwkrt wrote:
| There's a second Christian-esque type of self help which
| states, "you are a broken and pitiful person, your
| fundamental nature is flawed. Take these steps to salvation."
| Jordan Peterson is like this with all his requests to
| empathize with gulag prison guards and the like.
|
| I think people don't just like hearing what is good or easy.
| Sometimes we want to have an incredible cross to bear. It's
| the mentality that causes people to commit to overbearing
| self-regulation, like using pomodoro for the entire day or
| going on an impossible diet. Self-transformation sells just
| as much from the mouth of the stern father as it does from
| the caring mother.
| mckirk wrote:
| Hmm, I don't quite agree with that characterization of
| Jordan Peterson. I believe his main point when talking of
| these prison-guard horror stories is to "embrace your
| shadow", as in: Realize that you might not be as far away
| from being dangerous as you would think, if you just
| thought of yourself as a good person. Considering the
| numerous crimes against humanity that have been carried out
| by people as soon as the "veil of civilization" showed a
| few cracks in the past, I don't think it's an unreasonable
| aspect of human nature to remind people of.
|
| I believe the concept of the shadow stems from Jung's work,
| and I admittedly don't know precisely in which context Jung
| applied it. But ostensibly, being mindful of the dangerous
| paths one can be lead down if you don't take care to stay
| in balance seems like a reasonable thing to teach people,
| without it instantly degenerating into a "you are a sinner
| and need to atone"-routine (as you seem to see it).
| billti wrote:
| Totally agree. I thought this closing statement on this
| recent BBC article [1] hit the point home:
| "Sometimes the women are portrayed as exploited victims.
| At other times as sadistic monsters. The
| truth is more horrifying. They were not extraordinary
| monsters, but rather ordinary women, who ended up doing
| monstrous things."
|
| I think we have enough data-points by now to know that
| any large group, regardless of race, gender, country,
| sexuality, etc., has a much larger percentage of people
| capable of doing horrific things that we would like to
| believe.
|
| [1] https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-55661782
| mrfredward wrote:
| >your fundamental nature is flawed. Take these steps to
| salvation.
|
| When a cheap sales pitch uses the "you're flawed" format,
| it's usually telling people "we are all flawed, but here's
| how you can be morally superior to your peers" or "do this
| thing and you'll receive a divine reward/achieve
| enlightenment." The promised reward or feeling of
| superiority is what makes people want to hear the message.
|
| It's cheap to tell an aging church congregation about the
| dangers of video games and internet pornography, because it
| let's people pat themselves on the back without making a
| sacrifice. It's a little harder to tell an audience of
| young professionals that they need to limit high dopamine
| activities to find low dopamine activities appealing, and
| given that it's a real call to action based on a
| reasonable, falsifiable claim, I don't think it's cheap
| advice.
| adtac wrote:
| re sleep: is it common for sleep schedules to "drift"? I'll
| sleep at 11pm on one night naturally and wake up refreshed at
| 7am in the morning the next day, but I won't naturally go to
| sleep until 12am that night. This leads to a 8am wake up time
| the next day. You can see how this will quickly lead to an bad
| sleeping pattern.
|
| is it possible to fix this with a few weeks of consistently
| sleeping at the same time somehow? will I eventually sleep at
| the same time naturally? or will this take months of "forcing"
| myself to sleep (as ridiculous as that sounds)?
| sixhobbits wrote:
| See
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delayed_sleep_phase_disorder
| adtac wrote:
| Okay, that Wikipedia page reads like a personal biography
| lol. I probably have this in some mild form. The drift is
| usually about 20-30 mins for me (I used an hour as an
| example in my original comment), so it's mostly manageable
| by shortening my duration of sleep by an hour once or twice
| a week, but I should get this fixed.
| zeta0134 wrote:
| If you solve this problem, would you share the details? I've
| been dealing with this for my entire adult life. When I can
| convince my body to actually sleep when the sun goes down,
| the day that follows is typically one of my most productive,
| but I also only seem to get one of those per week or so.
|
| I can work around this by moderating the _length_ of my
| sleep, ie, allowing myself to go for at least 7.5 hours no
| matter when I fall, but sometimes IRL obligations get in the
| way. For most folks working more strict office hours (or god,
| retail) this is not a workable suggestion. Even then,
| eventually I 'll drift too far, one of the sleep cycles gets
| shorted, then there's this weird recovery period with some
| short naps, and _surprise_ now we 're waking up at dawn
| again.
| thisiszilff wrote:
| I'll bite and say I think it can be pretty personal. I
| struggled with insomnia-like symptoms for a while (eg, I
| simply was not tired and could not fall asleep) until I
| began to experiment with a couple of things. For me the
| most important where
|
| - waking up at a consistent hour, every day, even the
| weekends
|
| - no caffeine after noon, ideally not after 11, but I like
| coffee (individual tolerance will vary, I'm apparently on
| the sensitive side)
|
| - make sure you're comfortable at night. It's baffling that
| I didn't realize this sooner, but the trick to falling
| asleep for me is to just get comfortable enough that I
| don't really want to move. When you hit that point where
| you're so comfortable and don't feel the need to move, then
| drifting off is easy.
|
| - have a planning method to make sure you are organized and
| offload any thoughts about what needs to happen. I read
| Getting Things Done and implemented some of the stuff there
| and that helped a lot in freeing up my mind from worrying -
| remind yourself, routinely, that whatever you are doing,
| you'll be able to do it better in the morning
|
| > I can work around this by moderating the length of my
| sleep, ie, allowing myself to go for at least 7.5 hours no
| matter when I fall, but sometimes IRL obligations get in
| the way. For most folks working more strict office hours
| (or god, retail) this is not a workable suggestion. Even
| then, eventually I'll drift too far, one of the sleep
| cycles gets shorted, then there's this weird recovery
| period with some short naps, and surprise now we're waking
| up at dawn again.
|
| That is pretty much where I was. I'd go to sleep at varying
| hours from 10PM to 5AM, always somehow later each night.
| Sometimes it would take me very long to fall asleep (ie 2
| hrs +) unless I felt very tired. Looking back, it is like I
| needed to be truly exhausted -- not just sleepy, but
| exhausted -- to fall asleep and that pushed back my sleep
| schedule every night a little bit.
|
| It wasn't until I got brutal headaches and brain fog
| everyday that I made it my top priority and began to take
| an inventory of everything that got in my way. I still go
| to bed late (between midnight and 1) though, in part
| because it lets me do regular social things and still,
| usually, go to bed on time.
| SyzygistSix wrote:
| It seems common enough and from what I have read, it is just
| something a certain number of people have innately. And it
| doesn't fit well with an 8-5 workday unfortunately.
|
| The only way I have found to moderate it at all is using a
| moderate stimulant in the morning (pseudoephidrine) and a
| moderate sleep aid (allergy pill, diphenhydramine) at night,
| plus being very disciplined (no caffeine after noon, go to
| bed at a certain time with no video screens/close my book).
| grenoire wrote:
| I solved this by exercising, it normalised my sleeping
| patterns drastically compared to what I had in my student
| days. Now I am 'ready' at 12, and consistently wake up at
| 8-8:30 in the mornings.
| hypertele-Xii wrote:
| It is called Non-24-hour sleep-wake disorder [1], and is very
| common in blind people. I have it (though not blind). The
| Wikipedia article suggests some treatments. It's impossible
| to fix in my experience by forcing myself into a consistent
| cycle; I'll just grow more and more tired over time until I
| simply fail to wake to alarm.
|
| [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-24-hour_sleep%E2%80%93w
| ake...
| Sinidir wrote:
| How do you manage a job with this?
| keyanp wrote:
| > As hackers in one way or another, we are constantly putting
| up our ego as collateral in order to take on challenges that
| threaten to knock us down a peg or two if we fail. For many of
| us, failure is a threat to the core of our identity, yet we
| dive on in anyway. Exhaustion from that sort of loop is to be
| expected.
|
| I've never really heard this feeling described this way, but it
| totally resonates with me. What a beautiful way to put it.
| Thanks.
| 5600k wrote:
| I don't think it's cheap advice. He may have spent a lot of
| time writing it.
|
| The only thing I read that was humorous and slightly wrong was
| the interesting take on meditation: getting bored more often.
|
| I enjoy quiet, so I'd be a "zen master" according to the post,
| at least for some minutes each day. But those who know me would
| not confuse me with a zen master.
| rchaud wrote:
| The advice may sound formulaic, but that's because there are
| only so many ways you can talk about productivity and
| procrastination. The fundamental issues being addressed are
| always the same: distractions, instant gratification, poor
| discipline, lack of measurable goals etc.
| Bakary wrote:
| From your own description, it sounds as though the self-
| perception as a creative and continual risk-taker different
| from the nine to fivers is where the ego maintenance lies, so
| it might not actually be put in danger by failure.
| vitabenes wrote:
| I agree with your points on appreciating yourself and better
| sleep.
|
| As for this seeming like cheap advice, keep in mind that A)
| many people have not heard it yet, and B) sometimes a new twist
| on an older concept drives the point home.
|
| And you don't have to buy anything. Most of the stuff we create
| is free on our blog or Twitter. We're not "vultures," we're 2
| guys helping people to stop scrolling and go do stuff, driven
| by our own past struggles. Fin.
|
| Thank you for the comment.
| virgil_disgr4ce wrote:
| Where do you think depression fits into this model? I have
| depression and take antidepressants, but I still experience
| an undercurrent of inescapable ennui that appears to be
| resistant to even the most interesting, well-defined and
| meaningful work.
| Bakary wrote:
| YMMV but it's generally possible to improve that sensation
| over time by conscious appreciation and a return to less
| information-intensive activities.
|
| Generally philosophical visions of the world are a product
| of emotions and neurological and physical conditions that
| are sometimes as mundane as bad digestion.
| SyzygistSix wrote:
| The article was what I needed to read, when I needed to read
| it, as it is something I am actively struggling with. And
| some of the advice, while I have heard it before, was framed
| differently enough that it allowed me to "get it" this time
| around. Thanks!
| vitabenes wrote:
| Happy to help!
| kiba wrote:
| Failure? I think failure is the inability to do what we wanted
| to do in the first place. A lot of failure is from the
| inability to finish a project due to lack of motivations, not
| because it's impossible.
|
| Many of these goals are quite beneficial, like working out
| everyday.
| neogodless wrote:
| Right now, most of my day is killing time on the internet and
| playing computer games. And I'm OK with that (right now.)
|
| I've had really productive periods in my life. I really enjoy
| them, but they generally do not happen accidentally. What seems
| to work for me is to identify all the things I'm doing wrong, and
| replace them with doing the right things. (Surprising, right?)
|
| Part of what helps is the cumulative effect of replacing bad
| habits with good habits. Things like having a few drinks at
| night, staying up late, not exercising enough, and eating foods
| your body doesn't handle well all add up to a state of mental
| fogginess, lethargy, distraction-seeking, as well as the cycle of
| going back to those same bad habits to get over it.
|
| I've done things like the Whole30 diet, where I avoid any likely
| trigger foods for 30 days so I can experience a healthy digestion
| system, and (ideally) phase bad foods back into my diet so I can
| identify the worst offenders. I'll set a "this is my personal
| universal law" work out schedules that I prioritize above
| anything else. I've gone without drinking for months at a time.
| I'll cut out things like Facebook, Instagram, addicting computer
| games, binging of TV shows, etc. and replace them with
| educational books, programming tutorials, writing down ideas,
| making projects (woodworking, code, etc.)
|
| The cumulative effects cannot be overstated. I'll spend my days
| with a clear head, with the energy to keep doing the things that
| benefit me, the interest in the projects that I value and
| consider productive, often a repulsion to sugary foods, a much
| lower appetite for frequent snacking/grazing, a somewhat natural
| urge to go to bed when I'm tired and repeat the process the next
| day.
|
| So those periods are excellent, and I miss them when they are
| past. But I also eventually miss my bad habits as well, and
| inevitably let them trickle back in, reversing the cycle in the
| opposite direction. I have not found a perfect long-term
| solution, but I know that when I miss productivity enough or feel
| depressed enough about being so inactive, I'll probably be
| motivated enough to sit up and take action and get back into the
| upward cycle.
|
| I suspect the most successful people tend to avoid the trickle of
| bad habits, or just have a better handle on keeping it at a
| trickle while they stay in a more optimal state. (And otherwise
| have factors like luck and good connections on their side!) But
| I'm content (most of the time) with a life that is sometimes
| really productive, and sometimes much less so. And I come to
| accept letting go of those golden ages and embracing the less
| productive consumption ages as something I can enjoy without
| overshadowing them with guilt. Your values may vary!
| Zealotux wrote:
| Good summary of what procrastination essentially is: an emotional
| problem, rarely about "laziness" or time management. Readjusting
| your dopamine sensitivity will most likely solve most of it,
| trading my expensive gaming PC for a Macbook Pro probably was the
| biggest game-changing (pun not intended) event of my life so far,
| and greatly improved my relation to work and life in general.
| the_only_law wrote:
| I would consider selling my expensive gaming PC if whatever I
| replaced it with had a reasonable similar CPU. Not sure if I
| can get that from any type of laptop though at least not
| without paying more than I paid for my PC. Also I kinda need
| PCIe lanes.
| Macha wrote:
| Someone commented but deleted on how they felt laptop CPUs
| have gotten worse in recent years, using the example of their
| U series cpu being slower than a much older M series cpu.
| Since I wrote the comment, posting it here:
|
| The U series are "low power CPUs". They can do a lot more
| than they could in the past, but the H series are the actual
| successors to the M series. It's why the 10980HK is still the
| top performing of Intel's CPUs in a lot of workloads (quite
| significantly in some cases, we're talking 60% reductions in
| compile times for large C++ projects, like Chrome):
| https://youtu.be/pdO4u87UCYI?t=346 , and for that workload
| even an older 9300H handily wins against their current
| efficiency flagship in the 1185G7.
|
| You are trading off a lot of power for improvements in power
| efficiency.
| laurentdc wrote:
| It was me! Thanks for the tip about M -> H. Sorry I deleted
| the comment - I wasn't 100% sure about the models (I don't
| have the laptops near me at the moment and I didn't want to
| spread misinformation).
| Zealotux wrote:
| Amusingly, I had just built myself a pretty expensive gaming
| PC right before selling it all, and then got myself a second-
| hand 2015 MBP. I'd say the newest M1 MBP are worth the money,
| my metric shifted from raw performance/$ to experience/$.
|
| And honestly, I will gladly sacrifice some CPU power just to
| keep myself away from gaming.
| budlightvirus wrote:
| How did you go about replacing gaming? I often game mostly
| out of habit but haven't found anything I'm really jazzed
| about to replace it
| Zealotux wrote:
| It was though, at first I simply switched to surrogate
| dopamine dispensers which I ended up blocking, only
| allowing myself access to certain hours for a limited
| amount of time. Overall: blocking myself from such
| activities turned out to work well, can't recommend it to
| everyone though.
|
| I picked up new things by making an habit out of it, such
| as reading at least a few pages of a book every day. It's
| cliche, but setting medium to long-term goals also
| clarified what I wanted my days to be made of, so now I'm
| very focused on a personal startup project.
|
| Bonus advice that may not apply to you at all: don't be
| surprised if relatives tries to keep you from changing
| your habits, or if you find yourself distancing away from
| friends, it's a feature of improvement not a bug.
| lupire wrote:
| I don't understand this. People who are addicted to games
| won't play any non-intensive games, like League of Legends
| (or Which is the lower spec one) or speed chess ?
| sylens wrote:
| For me, a big draw of gaming is being part of the
| zeitgeist. New game comes out, I want to try it, talk
| about it online, etc. Sometimes my friends get into a
| game extensively (like COD Warzone) and I don't want to
| be left behind. If I just had a laptop, it wouldn't be
| possible to run those games on it. And because I don't
| have any friends playing League of Legends or participate
| in online communities talking about, it's not really
| appealing to me.
| quake wrote:
| I don't have an addiction to games, but I play a lot of them
| because it's how I keep in touch with my friends from across
| the country. At the start of COVID/WFH, I was pretty
| concerned that I'd become a gaming addict. The reason I
| didn't is one of those smart/dumb oxymorons: I've just been
| plugging the peripherals from my gaming tower into my work
| laptop. After a day of work, the absolute last thing I want
| to do is sit at the same desk staring at the same screen and
| play games. Even on the weekends, I look at the desk and get
| this "ugh this feels like work" feeling which has really
| helped with not playing games in my spare time.
|
| This of course has two huge caveats:
|
| 1. I didn't have a gaming addiction in the first place,
| evidenced by the fact that I have a Nintendo Switch that gets
| played in short bursts, rather than constantly.
|
| 2. I work with embedded systems/hardware, so I need to have
| an actual workstation area to keep the tools (debugger
| probes, power supply, oscilloscope, etc) on. The embedded
| systems curse of always needing more ports has been a pretty
| effective anchor for keeping my workspace in the same place
| as my PC, and if it wasn't, then I'd probably get more "I
| should spend all day today playing games" desires
| MivLives wrote:
| I ended up feeling the same thing as you. I only have the
| room for one desk, and so the screens/ other stuff had to
| be shared. After 8 plus hours in my bed room working the
| last thing I want to do is spend the time before I sleep
| there too, looking at the same screen. In the before times
| the urge was much more stronger.
| throw14082020 wrote:
| A cheaper alternative to buying a laptop is install Linux on
| your existing machine, to add friction to the process. Or,
| buy a Mac mini.
| [deleted]
| wombat23 wrote:
| It's funny, but I feel in the opposite position. To me,
| computers had become associated with work-only, so much that I
| needed a change. I decided to assemble a new machine for fun
| coding and maybe some games (though I probably won't really
| have much time for it). starting up the new Flight Sim feels
| great and gives me a different perspective, after staring at a
| screen of e-mails and calendar and presentation slides for
| hours.
| amackera wrote:
| I did this last year and I don't regret it for a second.
|
| I've also developed a kind of higher standard for the games
| that I allow to take some of my time.
|
| Praise be to Valve, as Proton has freed me from the tyranny
| of Windows.
| taneq wrote:
| All very true. Without diminishing this suggestion, though, I
| feel it's worth pointing out that some people _can 't_ just
| 'readjust their dopamine sensitivity' by changing some things
| in their environment. If you have chronic issues with
| regulating attention and they're strongly impacting you in
| multiple areas, seeing a professional could change your life.
| kejaed wrote:
| Do you have any specific type of professional to suggest?
| taneq wrote:
| I'd assumed from the context it was clear that I was
| referring to a psychiatrist.
|
| It could also be worth talking first to a clinical
| psychologist. They're less about the drugs and more about
| the analysis, and sometimes that's able to get you working
| with just a 'software patch.' Sometimes, though, when
| you've tried everything and your brain still isn't doing
| the thing, medication can be absolutely lifechanging.
|
| As the saying goes, if you can't make your own
| neurotransmitters, store bought is fine.
| ThrustVectoring wrote:
| I actively disrecommend talking to a psychologist. If you
| suspect ADHD, the first-line treatment is getting
| stimulant therapy via a psychiatrist. Understanding and
| talking about your problem _does not_ fix it. They 've
| studied this, it's simply an ineffective treatment for
| ADHD. People go from being distracted all the time
| without understanding why to being distracted all the
| time with tools and techniques they don't actually end up
| using.
|
| Stimulant therapy, on the other hand, is effective to a
| degree that every other mental health intervention
| _wishes_ it could be. I am a relatively conscientious
| high performing software developer with medication, and
| borderline unemployable without it. Night and day
| difference.
|
| Therapy and education is more appropriate for the people
| _around_ the ADHD patient. Getting a sense of empathy for
| their situation and learning how to generate an effective
| context for them to operate in is _incredibly_ valuable.
| AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote:
| Or, as is my experience with seeing professionals, it could
| just cost you a bunch of money.
| taneq wrote:
| Also true. Remember, half of all (normally-distributed) X
| are below average, and one in 20 are two standard
| deviations below the mean.
| loceng wrote:
| Is that due to you reducing your gaming (did you completely
| eliminate gaming?) or is it because the laptop gives you
| portability to work at different places - whether that includes
| cafes or different spots in your home that may have less
| distractions of whatever sort? Just curious about what the
| before/after looks like for you.
| Zealotux wrote:
| Primarily cutting off gaming -the only gaming I have left are
| the occasional chess games on the week-end - I haven't got
| much opportunity to work outside comfortably yet with
| lockdown. It changed my relationship to computers: sitting at
| my desk is now about work, and I do much more things outside
| of it.
| laurentdc wrote:
| I've quit toxic competitive gaming (League of Legends,
| Overwatch) and replaced it with Netflix and shortwave radio
| listening. I'm still procrastinating because I work a bullshit
| job, but at least I don't rage as much and I always have some
| topics for small talk and conversation, which I feel is
| boosting my mood by a lot.
| viklove wrote:
| Similar but less drastic -- I traded League of Legends,
| Counter-Strike, and Valorant for games like Minecraft, Rust,
| and Valheim. I can play at my own pace, and even doing
| "nothing" in those games is calming and fun. I'm definitely a
| much less anxious and angry person because of it.
| 0wis wrote:
| Great article. It helped me go back to work. I feel like the
| world would be a much better place with less procrastination. It
| feels like a premise for great work. However, I feel much of
| actual content of the subject feel like scam or bullshit. Beside
| this site and waitbutwhy.com, what are the other legit
| initiatives on the subject ?
| vitabenes wrote:
| Thank you for the comment!
|
| There are some good books like The Now Habit by Neil Fiore or
| The Procrastinator's Digest by Tim Pychil, and good articles
| like the one on waitbutwhy, but information on procrastination
| is mostly scattered about. There aren't many projects focusing
| solely on it.
| 0wis wrote:
| Thank you for the reply ! And if you are behind this project,
| thanks for it. I will surely dig into this gem site this
| weekend and maybe try your program one day ! And I add these
| two books on top of my ever too long reading list.
| pca006132 wrote:
| Sometimes I just wonder, is the frequent burnt-out we see for
| programmers caused by not having a fast feedback loop.
|
| For me, I feel excited when doing performance tuning work, front-
| end stuff etc. However, I would quickly become bored after
| working on work that take more than 5 days or so, even if I love
| the subject. Although I'm not really into TDD, but I think
| sometimes using TDD could help you get some more feedback when
| you work on some abstract stuff. (Although writing the tests
| could be boring for the beginning...)
|
| I would argue that having no expectation on the first-draft may
| not be the best way to be more productive. Having some concrete
| goals or metrics could be beneficial if you can get the feedback-
| loop working. Under-defined, subjective goals could be bad as
| achieving the goal may seem never-ending if you want perfection.
| (at least for me)
| Ottolay wrote:
| Interesting. I love hunting and fixing significant bugs or
| issues. It could be because the immediate dopamine hit if
| successful. Harder to get motivated for things with less
| certain impact, even if successful.
| bonniemuffin wrote:
| Some other fields (e.g. long-running academic research
| experiments) involve a feedback loop of months or years. I've
| done experiments where the experiment subjects (mice, human
| cells, etc) look exactly the same for weeks and weeks, and you
| have to work on them every day not knowing whether they'll turn
| into something useful in a month or two. Writing grants and
| papers has a turnaround time of months--you work so hard on it,
| lob it into the ether, and just wait 6 months to see if
| anything will come of it.
|
| Coming from a background like that, I find that the days/weeks
| feedback loop time in tech makes me positively giddy with joy.
| It's hard for me to imagine thinking of 5 days as a long time
| to work on a problem.
| raphyjake wrote:
| Honestly, "stop having fun" was the single best decision I have
| ever taken. I began studying a lot, I started to actually code my
| small personal projects, I began working on fiverr (I'm indeed
| still a student) and I'm much more confident in myself now.
|
| Ironically, when I was hiking 15 days without internet and
| coudn't sleep at night, I began scribbling down a similar essay:
| points 1 and 2 are the same, stop having fun and experience true
| boredom. I'm very glad someone got my same idea.
| Bakary wrote:
| This post echoes some of my own personal findings, but the
| biggest problem remains. It's difficult to live a narratively
| meaningful life, especially in a professional setting. There
| comes a point where you would love nothing more than to just
| contribute something useful to the world and not just learn
| interesting things for their own sake, or to have novel
| experiences and make decisions that matter as a free agent in a
| wide world. These possibilities are so fragile and hard to
| maintain.
|
| On a more positive note, the effectiveness of reducing addictive
| activities cannot be overstated. Essentially, you have to remind
| yourself that you can access a more pleasant neurological state
| if you first start by getting some of your daily activities under
| control.
| otikik wrote:
| > if you're addicted to any of the high-dopamine, low-effort
| activity, please quit it
|
| Wow. Thanks, I guess.
| roland35 wrote:
| As far as having less super fun things, I found it takes me about
| 2 days to 1 week to "detox" from addictive distractions, my most
| recent distraction being the game "Hades" :) Luckily I was about
| to finally finish that game but I still had to consciously keep
| it away for a few days before I finally no longer have the
| temptation.
| JebusAustralia wrote:
| Please donate ethereum to this address as I am being kept hostage
| by a psychopath called Satoshi Nakamoto. He has scattered all of
| my personal information and economical research all over youtube,
| cnbc, techcrunch, the local mainstream media in the netherlands.
| https://ibb.co/74qYknK
| kissgyorgy wrote:
| It might be the second life-changing article for me. The first
| was: https://www.cracked.com/blog/6-harsh-truths-that-will-
| make-y...
| 0wis wrote:
| Why this kind of article always seem both borderline and true ?
| It is surprising as it opposes << reality >> to << conventional
| wisdom >>.
|
| And ads are annoying.
| culopatin wrote:
| Progress over perfection is what I keep telling myself all day.
| My brain automatically goes on to investigating something else
| when I'm faced with my projects. "Oh wait how do we get our
| terminal to look that cool?".
|
| I'm working on my first project involving a DB and a CRUD Java
| program that will talk to a website, potentially. I am too
| concerned about "am I doing this the right way"? Things like how
| I'm setting up my db table, or "is one is enough or I should use
| more", if people will look into it and say "wow this guy is dumb"
| or whatever.
|
| They all prevent me from just pushing forward and improving
| later. I'm too scared of someone telling me to fix shit even
| though I actually enjoy learning so much I'd probably like that.
|
| I wish I could just go in my brain and turn that off, I'd be
| living in the future.
| beaconstudios wrote:
| I've made this mistake in the past, but I don't any more. The
| difference is that rather than closing my feedback loop over
| the code/architecture itself (so the cycle of working is start
| feature => code => look at code => code, which obviously never
| leads to starting new features), I close the loop over the
| experience (becoming start feature => code => use/test the
| feature => start new feature). This way your focus is on the
| product and your working cycle involves incrementally adding
| features, not navel-gazing at your code. So basically, bring
| yourself out of the code and actually try the product whenever
| a feature is done; context-switch from coder to user.
| j_m_b wrote:
| Is there any science behind dopamine fasting? By science, I mean
| empirical evidence regarding dopamine fasting. When I last looked
| into it, there seemed to be scant evidence for it.
| [deleted]
| tclancy wrote:
| In sum, have a job that lets you define what you do on a daily
| basis, don't be depressed and make sure you're not addicted to
| anything.
| fock wrote:
| yeah, I was wondering about this as well: basically I have
| experienced times, where I could rightly sit there and watch
| the wall for hours. I guess this indicates depression and
| significantly hampers implementing these ideas...
| AussieWog93 wrote:
| I think this article conflates productivity with diligence.
|
| The most effective way I've found to improve productivity is to
| shift focus onto tasks that bring in more money per unit time
| spent performing them.
|
| Since my daughter was born 7 months ago, I've really only been
| able to work about 2-3 "full" 8-hour days a week without
| crashing, and my wife might be able to spend 8-10 hours a week
| working on the business. However, because we've simply stopped
| doing tasks that are "work" but don't add greatly to the
| business's bottom line (for example, we no longer respond to dumb
| requests from customers, standardise products into a single SKU
| where possible and shifted our marketing towards eBay's promoted
| listings rather than building an organic following on social
| media), we've actually grown slightly.
|
| Diligence and drive are definitely important parts of what makes
| you productive, but it's not the be all and end all.
| beaconstudios wrote:
| I think you've highlighted the difference between efficiency
| and efficacy. Efficiency is doing the thing you're doing well,
| efficacy is doing the right thing. You can have efficiency
| without efficacy if you're optimally performing the wrong
| tasks.
| softwaredoug wrote:
| I just try to accept I go through spurts of inspiration and low
| energy. Forcing myself to do work when I don't want to us a
| recipe for burnout. It's often unavoidable, when the situation
| forces it on me. But TBH I'm my own worst enemy: driving myself
| when I should be in a rest state.
| zero_deg_kevin wrote:
| I made it about 200 words before the anticipation of a sales
| pitch or call to action drove me away. I don't know if they're
| selling something, but it feels like it, and I don't want it.
| violetgarden wrote:
| I moved my television out of the living room and into a spare
| room. I felt like I was binging too much and wanted a jolt to my
| routine. Since doing so, I've read a backlog of books and even
| stated practicing tech skills I wanted to develop after work. I
| can vouch for it not seeming as difficult to do after toning down
| my stimulation. In fact, I can't wait to get off work to start
| doing my stuff. Losing tv felt really weird at first. I ate in
| front of it. I'd turn on one quick show (that always turned in to
| several episodes!) after work to relax. I'll probably go watch
| some shows I'm looking forward to once they're out, but it'll be
| more of a decision than a default. Tv isn't the devil. I just
| needed more balance in my life, and the results are making me
| feel a lot more fulfilled than I was.
| vitabenes wrote:
| Environment changes are powerful. Same goes for apps like
| Twitter. I used to have it both on my phone and tablet, and
| that lead to me checking it hundreds of times a day. Now I only
| access it in the browser, and in restricted time windows. Much
| better.
|
| Another "environment setup" example would be buying an analog
| alarm clock instead of using your phone (and doom scrolling for
| 30 minutes every morning.
|
| Simple changes, profound effects.
| bonniemuffin wrote:
| How do you restrict the time windows in which you access
| twitter? Through technological solutions, or just through
| self-control?
| kowlo wrote:
| Thanks for sharing. What do you draw your doodles in?
| vitabenes wrote:
| Sketches app on an iPad, then converted to SVG and touched up
| in Inkscape.
| kowlo wrote:
| Thanks I'll check it out(I see a Tayasui Sketches if it's
| that one). I'm not sure if you consider yourself to be good
| at drawing, but the drawings look good. They come together
| nicely :)
| cdiamand wrote:
| 1. Have less exposure towards super fun things
|
| I cannot emphasize enough how powerful this is. If you're
| struggling to focus on your work/projects, try living a bland
| existence like a monk for a while. You won't be able to stop
| thinking about working.
| arkitaip wrote:
| Corollary, it takes truly awful times to appreciate the bad
| times.
| Otek wrote:
| Great life. Live like a monk to work more. Thanks, I'd rather
| be less productive and watch some Youtube during work from time
| to time. As long as I'm delivering stuff on time I don't need
| to constantly push myself harder. How should I know how much
| productivity is productive enough? These articles never bother
| to explain that.
| cdiamand wrote:
| Isn't this subjective and best left up to the goals of the
| individual?
| kiba wrote:
| Not everybody wants to watch youtube or play video games all
| day as their desired state.
|
| It's not about pushing yourself harder, but making you do
| what you think is important rather than have your brain seeks
| short term pleasure at the expense of long term well being.
| bidirectional wrote:
| Not everyone has a staid worklife, for some people working
| harder is incredibly important to their long term goals, for
| varying reasons. Such advice is very valuable to them,
| obviously it's ridiculous if you're pushing yourself to work
| harder for a Fortune 500 megacorp. who sees you as a cost
| centre.
| randcraw wrote:
| I think the article's point is that procrastination is caused
| by your mismanagement of a pleasure gradient. The more you
| immerse yourself in the portion of the spectrum that is zero-
| effort and high-reward, the less you're motivated to leave
| that region, even as empty as it eventually makes you feel
| and your life becomes.
|
| The author _almost_ makes a really good point. The best way
| to entice yourself back into a more dynamic rhythm of life
| where you look forward to something is 1) to deprive yourself
| of it, and 2) not to seek it too soon.
|
| Deprivation and anticipation are essential to maintaining a
| dynamic interesting lifestyle. Without the self-discipline to
| redirect your attention toward serving more mundane daily
| needs, you become a hedonist and focus only on getting high
| and staying there. You become a junkie.
| polote wrote:
| > Have less exposure towards super fun things
|
| If that is not "forcing yourself" I don't know what "forcing
| yourself" means
| cdiamand wrote:
| One of the tricks is to create an environment that doesn't
| require willpower to avoid distraction. There are plugins
| that block distractions on your browser. You could sell, or
| lend out, or put your X-box into storage, etc.
| gspr wrote:
| This advice feels, to me, kind of like saying "Are you bored of
| your limited cooking skills? Eat gray sludge for a while, and
| you'll love your old mediocre cooking!"
|
| If the solution to being productive is to rid yourself of joys,
| then screw it, I'll take an unproductive happy life.
| [deleted]
| minikites wrote:
| In a similar way, hunger is the best spice.
| faeyanpiraat wrote:
| Having too long of a vacation (eg.: more than 5 days on the
| beach) makes has this effect on me.
|
| It is not about having or not having fun, but being removed
| from the usual "i could work but also choose not to"
| environment.
|
| On the beach I cannot work even if I wanted to, and it kind of
| make me want to work.
| YinglingLight wrote:
| "No Music" is tougher than No Carb, No Fap, No Pillow, No Surf.
| It's insane what waterfall of dopamine we regularly flood
| ourselves with.
| PaulKeeble wrote:
| New years resolutions and other big changes tend not to work very
| well because they are big changes and we are very bad at big
| changes. Probably the most important piece of information I
| needed to make lasting changes to how I spent my day was the
| combined knowledge and idea:
|
| 1) I ran on habits for most of my day
|
| 2) I could change about 1% of my day every month
|
| Doing small changes continuously results in a big change within a
| few years and most of your day is completely different. You can
| learn to do uninteresting, uninspiring chores if you just put
| small progressions towards it.
| the_only_law wrote:
| Unfortunately "a few years is" the upper end of my bound and I
| have a number of big things I need to tackle within that bound.
| faeyanpiraat wrote:
| Earning 1% every month on your investments would yield a
| ridiculous amount, like the wealth of the entire world in 3
| years or something.
|
| So even if it sounds like a small goal, getting better by any
| amount could suffice.
| lupire wrote:
| No , 1%/month is 43% in 3 years.
| faeyanpiraat wrote:
| You are right, I must be misremembering something, let me
| think about it..
| fnomnom wrote:
| you are probably thinking of doubling? like in the chess
| & rice story? see:
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sissa_(mythical_brahmin)
| which leads to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wheat_and_ch
| essboard_problem
| flower-giraffe wrote:
| I love the irony that this has reached the 2nd from top on HN in
| three hours.
|
| Presumably from all of us using HN to get a dog procrastination
| fix.
|
| >Edit to clarify fix in the junkie sense, not as in fixing the
| issue.
| smusamashah wrote:
| I work to have a life and fun, not the other way around. I won't
| be doing any job that won't allow me to have fun. These are
| horrible advices.
|
| EDIT: What worked for me was to divide my work day (that's when I
| work) in 15 minutes chunks on a paper. Luckily I have reMarkable
| with graph paper made of 36 cells vertically. This nicely makes
| each cell 15 minutes making upto 9 hours.
| username90 wrote:
| How to lose weight without trying: Just stop eating everything
| you love, you wont overeat food you don't like.
|
| /s Sacrificing a huge part of what makes life meaningful isn't
| "without forcing yourself".
| zascrash wrote:
| I believe that the point is that those things are relative. It
| would be more like, if you stop eating everthing you love now
| (sweets, fast foods etc) you might learn to love the
| alternative (fruits and vegetables).
| criddell wrote:
| I wonder what side of the _stimulation standard_ line the author
| would put reading his article? Sometimes I think productivity
| porn like this article is a self-perpetuating problem.
___________________________________________________________________
(page generated 2021-02-19 23:03 UTC)