[HN Gopher] Uber shuts down app that told drivers if Uber underp...
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       Uber shuts down app that told drivers if Uber underpaid them
        
       Author : donsupreme
       Score  : 131 points
       Date   : 2021-02-18 19:30 UTC (3 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.vice.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.vice.com)
        
       | jedberg wrote:
       | There's a good chance that this was just a lawyer at Uber filing
       | takedowns for any app with the name Uber in it related to
       | ridesharing, regardless of what the app does.
        
       | marcod wrote:
       | They should just relaunch it as UberCheats!
        
       | naebother wrote:
       | I'm surprised there aren't more independent apps geared towards
       | maximizing earning for drivers. Like it can't be that hard to
       | create an artificial surge price if there's enough coordination
       | between most regular drivers at popular spots (e.g. airports).
        
         | ardy42 wrote:
         | > I'm surprised there aren't more independent apps geared
         | towards maximizing earning for drivers. Like it can't be that
         | hard to create an artificial surge price if there's enough
         | coordination between most regular drivers at popular spots
         | (e.g. airports).
         | 
         | Wouldn't an app be relatively easy for Uber to monitor and
         | subvert?
         | 
         | Drivers are already sometimes coordinating to create surge
         | pricing, and they don't need an app to do it:
         | https://www.inc.com/minda-zetlin/uber-lyft-drivers-
         | artificia...:
         | 
         | > While a reporter looked on, a group of about 50 drivers for
         | both Lyft and Uber sat at their waiting area at Reagan National
         | waiting while two drivers watched online to see when planes
         | were about to land. After a plane lands, a lot of passengers
         | request rideshare rides, which pushes demand up to begin with.
         | But the drivers further tipped the imbalance between demand and
         | supply by simultaneously turning off their apps five minutes
         | before landing. Then two drivers stood at opposite ends of the
         | waiting area, looking at the Uber and Lyft pricing for fares
         | from the airport. They kept checking fares and watching the
         | surge price increase until the fares were $13 higher than
         | normal. At that point, they told the other drivers to turn
         | their apps back on so they could begin accepting rides. The
         | whole operation took less than two minutes, but now arriving
         | passengers would pay around $13 more to reach their
         | destinations.
        
           | bradleyjg wrote:
           | I'm fairly certain this happened to me a couple of weeks ago
           | at LAX. Everyone in the waiting area kept on having a low
           | fare pop up, accept it, and then have uber try to substitute
           | it for a much higher fare before ultimately saying there were
           | no drivers available.
        
       | haltingproblem wrote:
       | I had never heard of UberCheats until now. Remember the Uber app
       | actually routes the driver from pickup to pickup so they know
       | exactly how much they have traveled. Seriously, Uber, "as the
       | crow flies" instead of the actual distance traveled?
       | 
       | This will I fear, quite happily, will unleash the Streisand
       | effect on UberCheats.
       | 
       | Uber bans UberCheats and founder savvily decides to fight it
       | instead of relaunching under a new name. I predict he will end up
       | with a seed round. Uber will end up with more reputation as being
       | UberDark - as in we pick the dark pattern every time we can
       | because why not.
        
       | xtracto wrote:
       | Isn't Uber a German word meaning "over". Can you trademark a
       | valid word?
        
         | tsimionescu wrote:
         | > Can you trademark a valid word?
         | 
         | Yes, absolutely. You can trademark almost anything (including
         | logo colors or patterns), but the protections offered by
         | trademark law are relatively narrow (or supposed to be).
         | 
         | For example, for a long time there were two major companies
         | named Apple: the computer company making the Macinthosh, and
         | the recording studio founded by the Beatles. Since they were
         | operating in completely different markets (computers vs music
         | distribution) they both were able to keep their respective
         | trademarks; but either could have easily blocked a new company
         | called Apple in their own market.
        
           | cycomanic wrote:
           | The irony is that when apple moved into music they won the
           | court case that they could not because of apple studios, they
           | also got away with making the iphone, while their existed the
           | cisco (?) iphone.
           | 
           | On the other hand apple goes after any little shop with a
           | logo that looks remotely like a stylized fruit. I guess it's
           | more about how big you are, not how right.
        
             | alex_young wrote:
             | Didn't they pay the owner off for all of these
             | infringements? I seem to remember that being the case...
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | Hydraulix989 wrote:
         | There's precedents everywhere for this, as long as the wording
         | meets the actual requirements listed in trademark law.
         | 
         | In the past, unscrupulous people would prey on unintentional
         | confusion by naming their upstart businesses similar to
         | established competitors, for example. There was also rampant
         | counterfeiting. You can still see this today in jurisdictions
         | without strong trademark laws.
         | 
         | This is what trademark law originally aimed to protect us
         | consumers from. Personally, I am happy with doing my own due
         | diligence (let the buyer beware) rather than enacting
         | regulatory laws subject to abuse by heavy-hitters, like in this
         | example. This, of course, is my own personal opinion.
        
           | LorenPechtel wrote:
           | I have no problem with trademark law being used against
           | companies trying to pretend to be the big guy.
           | 
           | But who would think "UberCheats" is something by "Uber"?? I
           | see no possible confusion and that's the whole point of
           | trademark law.
        
             | Hydraulix989 wrote:
             | Yes, but how do you draw the line in a way that prevents
             | one bad actor to claim they are in your latter safe bucket
             | of soft-infringement?
             | 
             | Without any stringent way of codifying it, there will only
             | be inconsistent enforcement, and there will be people who
             | manage to slip through the cracks.
             | 
             | Uber has an UberEats already, maybe someone could think
             | UberCheats are cheat codes or deals for UberEats? There is
             | definitely room for confusion...
        
               | colejohnson66 wrote:
               | The problem is that something like "are people confused"
               | isn't something that can be codified in the law. Try to
               | codify an algorithm and people will game it. As such, the
               | only solution is a judge.
        
         | phaer wrote:
         | "uber" is, but "u" and "u" are two different letters (with
         | different pronunciation) in German.
         | 
         | (don't know about trademark law, but do speak German)
        
           | tyfon wrote:
           | I think in many English speaking countries there is little
           | understanding that these are actually distinct characters in
           | other countries.
           | 
           | It also seems popular to use the Danish/Norwegian o instead
           | of o, one example is an energy drink called monster.
           | 
           | I think they meant to write monster but tried to be cool,
           | however monster is a real word in Norwegian that translates
           | to the English "pattern". Monster in Norwegian is the same as
           | monster in English.
           | 
           | For reference, o sounds like the i in the English word bird
           | or e in herd or herbs.
        
           | esrauch wrote:
           | I actually found it fascinating that in German speaking
           | countries they actually pronounce it as "u" not a "u" (more
           | like "you-ber"), when as an American it seems clear to me
           | that it's intended to be Uber and just didn't write the
           | umlaut.
        
             | jonp888 wrote:
             | German has fixed pronunciation rules, there is no
             | through/trough/tough/thought confusion.
             | 
             | Of course for some foreign words you have to make an
             | exception. However, Uber has a pretty minimal presence in
             | Germany, so I doubt many people know how it is 'supposed'
             | to be pronounced.
        
               | amanaplanacanal wrote:
               | I'd call it fixed spelling rules rather than
               | pronunciation rules, since the language predates writing
               | it down.
        
               | cycomanic wrote:
               | Let's agree and call it a 1 to 1 mapping.
        
               | Fnoord wrote:
               | When I learned German on high school, it was allowed to
               | replace umlaut. For example, instead of uber, you could
               | say ueber. Ie. effectively replacing the umlaut with its
               | vanilla/plain vowel variant plus an e. You can do the
               | same with ss by replacing it with two s (mind to write it
               | like). Tho I'm not sure its correct German in all German-
               | speaking regions I found Germans would understand me. It
               | being useful as my keyboard layout wasn't qwertz or
               | equiv.
        
         | veesahni wrote:
         | "Apple" is a registered trademark.
        
         | jabroni_salad wrote:
         | See also: Why Skydrive got renamed to OneDrive
         | 
         | https://www.theregister.com/2014/01/27/microsoft_skydrive_re...
        
       | NearAP wrote:
       | This is not surprising. Using 'Uber' in the name is trying to
       | build off their brand which big companies will not allow. This is
       | the reason why companies that allow you to build apps for their
       | platform will have rules that say - you should not include the
       | company name in your App.
       | 
       | Someone posted here on Hacker News how Android sued him for his
       | app for making use of the name 'droid' (i think) or something
       | close to the logo (can't remember the exact details and can't
       | find the post)
        
         | amelius wrote:
         | Friedrich Nietzsche just called claiming infringement of his
         | Ubermensch concept.
        
         | calciphus wrote:
         | Verizon owns the "Droid" trademark and is very litigious.
         | Wouldn't be surprised if they got a nastygram from Verizon
         | lawyers.
        
           | alasdair_ wrote:
           | Lucasfilm actually owns the "Droid" trademark and licenses it
           | to Verizon.
           | 
           | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Droid_(Star_Wars)#Trademark
        
         | overlordalex wrote:
         | This reminds of the third party Reddit app that started life as
         | "Reddit is Fun", which had to be re-branded to "RiF" once
         | Reddit itself started developing its own app.
         | 
         | However apparently that was still unacceptable and it's
         | currently named "rif is fun", and as much I like recursive
         | acronyms it's a little ridiculous
        
       | stefan_ wrote:
       | > My guess is that they use the 'straight line' distance rather
       | than the actual distance traveled.
       | 
       | My god, don't tell me they are still doing this? The incompetence
       | knows no bounds. Enough time to make their own chat app but no
       | one around to dig up Dijkstra.
        
         | giomasce wrote:
         | I suppose that's not just incompetence. I mean, it happens to
         | be incompetent when incompetence lets you pay your workers
         | less...
        
           | that_guy_iain wrote:
           | If that sort of error lasted more than a few days I doubt any
           | court would believe it's a mistake. Uber has how many
           | hundreds of engineers? And they can't figure out how to do
           | routes? Last time I was in an Uber the driver was forced to
           | take a specific route if I remember correct (it's been years.
           | I hate Uber so much)
        
       | willis936 wrote:
       | Free market for me but not for thee.
       | 
       | Anyway, it's just a copyright takedown. Change the name and move
       | on.
        
         | JoshTriplett wrote:
         | Trademark and copyright are not the same. This is a trademark
         | issue.
         | 
         | Also, not every name containing a trademark is a trademark
         | violation; for instance, while "UberCheats" violates the
         | trademark on "Uber", a name like "Watcher for Uber" would not
         | be. The general "XYZ for Trademark" as a descriptive phrase
         | tends to sidestep trademark issues. But on the other hand,
         | renaming it "RideshareCheats" would sidestep the legal issue
         | entirely and also open the door to generalizing it to cover
         | other such services.
        
           | koolba wrote:
           | To prevent possible defamation lawsuits, you're even better
           | off going with a positive sounding name like: _Fair Fare
           | Share_
        
           | xtracto wrote:
           | But why would it? If I call it "HuevoCheats" would it violate
           | some US company's trademark called "Huevo" when Huevo is a
           | valid word in Spanish?
        
             | chrismcb wrote:
             | If someone has a trademark, in software, for the word
             | huevo... Then possibly. Microsoft had trademarks on the
             | word "word" as well as "windows" In this case though, the
             | suit is winnable as i think you can prove no one is
             | confused between UberEats and Uber heats. But honestly it
             | isn't worth the hassle. The best solution is to change the
             | name.
        
             | unishark wrote:
             | If you literally sell huevos as your business there may be
             | a problem.
             | 
             | Otherwise, as the other poster says, it's just about
             | avoiding confusion. There can be Bob's Hardware and Bob's
             | Grocery store as separate trademarks.
        
             | Jaxkr wrote:
             | Whether or not a word appears in a dictionary has no
             | bearing on its enforceability as a trademark.
             | 
             | Ultimately it's up to the courts to decide. If your app
             | could reasonably be confused for an official product of
             | "Huevo" corp, it would constitute trademark infringement.
        
               | Retric wrote:
               | It's very unlikely for anyone in the marketplace to
               | believe "UberCheats" is made by Uber or cause confusion
               | in the marketplace. As such they are unlikely to win a
               | court case, a Google internal process on the other hand
               | is another story.
        
           | stefan_ wrote:
           | No one has established any trademark violation. All we have
           | are a bunch of angry emails and Google doing judge, jury and
           | executioner in response.
        
             | random5634 wrote:
             | How did Google prevent UberCheats from litigating this
             | issue? If UberCheats don't think they infringe the UberEats
             | or other trademarks, they can litigate the issue normally.
             | In this case Google served as the judge how?
             | 
             | This looks like a pretty clear trademark violation!
             | 
             | Rideshare Cheat Monitor for Uber would be MUCH safer than
             | resuing an extremely similar sounding name. Or just
             | RiderCheat Monitor.
             | 
             | Given they don't think their name is similar to UberEats /
             | Uber, it makes me wonder whether they are scam of some sort
             | as well.
        
         | Klwohu wrote:
         | It's a risk any user of the major platforms takes when they
         | participate in a walled garden ecosystem.
        
       | MikeDelta wrote:
       | Try doing this as a small developer defending his/her product
       | against scammers on the marketplace.
        
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       (page generated 2021-02-18 23:01 UTC)