[HN Gopher] Kill the Newsletter - Convert email newsletters into...
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Kill the Newsletter - Convert email newsletters into Atom feeds
        
       Author : polm23
       Score  : 181 points
       Date   : 2021-02-17 15:18 UTC (5 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (kill-the-newsletter.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (kill-the-newsletter.com)
        
       | petecooper wrote:
       | Aside: a question for proponents of syndication (e.g. Atom, RSS)
       | - as a publisher, are there other formats that should be
       | investigated?
        
         | Siilwyn wrote:
         | There is also a new format for JSON feeds:
         | https://jsonfeed.org/
        
         | onli wrote:
         | No. You need only one, either Atom or RSS.
        
         | mumblemumble wrote:
         | I'm inclined to say no.
         | 
         | RSS and Atom are great. And I wish I could get every newsletter
         | as feed instead. Emails get lost in the daily avalanche, but
         | RSS/Atom feeds know to wait until I have time to read. But
         | they're already beset by problems with lack of adoption. Any
         | alternative syndication tool is going to make it even harder to
         | reach your audience.
         | 
         | I'd also be careful about platforms like Medium. I wanted to
         | like Medium, I really did, but the algorithmic feed's constant
         | stream of clickbait quickly grew tiring. I ended up muting it,
         | newsletters and all. It seems to me that any platform that has
         | an algorithm is setting up a hostile environment for people who
         | don't enjoy producing or consuming clickbait.
        
       | benlumen wrote:
       | Nice idea.
       | 
       | Related - Is there anything that can add the select number of
       | Twitter accounts I want to follow to this Atom or RSS feed?
       | 
       | Without exposing myself to toxic replies, toxic suggested tweets
       | and toxic trending topics? I've thought for years there should be
       | something like that. Presumably it's a grey area with APIs or
       | scraping.
        
         | firloop wrote:
         | Newsblur does let you follow Twitter accounts; they have an API
         | integration. Tweets from accounts you follow show up as stories
         | in your reader.
        
         | erikschoster wrote:
         | I follow a couple friends via the RSS feed created by
         | nitter.net: https://nitter.net
        
         | Ambroisie wrote:
         | I believe you can use Rss-bridge to follow Twitter users.
        
         | filmgirlcw wrote:
         | I'm sure there's a way to do it but Twitter dropped RSS/Atom
         | support from their API in 2012 [1], so it would require
         | scraping or using some sort of other endpoint-managed control
         | of the feed. There have historically been usage limits on how
         | many tweets you could retrieve without paying, but I'm not sure
         | how much that has changed since Twitter overhauled its API last
         | year.
         | 
         | It's a shame that many of the tools and features we had a
         | decade ago no longer exist, not because of technology, but
         | because of decisions social networks made for business reasons
         | to eschew open standards and create their own walled gardens.
         | 
         | [1]: https://mashable.com/2012/09/05/twitter-api-rss/
        
       | firloop wrote:
       | Definitely a great tool. I used to use it but now mostly use the
       | Newsblur native version of this feature. I blogged about my
       | specific stack for reading newsletters because it takes a
       | surprising amount of configuration to read newsletters in a
       | streamlined way. Once you get a Gmail filter set up for the big
       | services like Substack it becomes pretty painless though.
       | 
       | https://ylukem.com/blog/how-to-keep-up-with-newsletters
        
       | acco102 wrote:
       | Use https://mailnesia.com/ or https://tempr.email/ and rss.
        
       | unicornporn wrote:
       | I use this: https://notifier.in/
       | 
       | Same thing, works well. Newsletters are plague.
        
         | dewey wrote:
         | > Newsletters are plague.
         | 
         | That really depends on how you use email. I always have a very
         | empty email inbox and newsletters stay there until I read them
         | (I'm talking about newsletters from people, not the latest
         | deals on some ecommerce website).
        
         | ghaff wrote:
         | I wouldn't call them a plague but it's easy to drown in stuff
         | being pushed out via email. So you end up filtering and it all
         | goes into a folder you never look at.
        
       | cameronbrown wrote:
       | I actually built something that was the complete inverse, RSS to
       | email. Avoiding email because your inbox is full is like deciding
       | not to drive because you didn't fill up the petrol tank. It's
       | just putting a problem off to the future.
        
       | gxqoz wrote:
       | It's been a long time since I've used an RSS reader. I've moved
       | to a read-it-later app like Pocket. Do any RSS readers provide
       | all of the following functionality:
       | 
       | -Let me highlight / add notes. -Randomly add things not in my
       | usual RSS feeds, i.e. from some website I'm browsing. -Listen to
       | articles via text to speech. -Work well across web, iOS and
       | Android.
       | 
       | I've been less and less happy with Pocket as it's clear that it's
       | become less of a priority for Mozilla.
        
       | dddddaviddddd wrote:
       | Ironically I convert atom feeds into email newsletters using
       | rss2email. One less app to keep open.
        
         | neogodless wrote:
         | Ha! I had almost forgot. About a decade ago (time frame made up
         | / guessed) I used Thunderbird as my RSS reader. Just checked
         | and it can still do that. Since it's my primary email reader,
         | voila!
         | 
         | (But I use Feedly.com web site on computer and Feedly app on
         | phone now which is easier for managing RSS than Thunderbird by
         | a mile. Though looking below there is Export/Import of feeds,
         | I'm not sure there's a way to just sync them up everywhere. And
         | I don't use Thunderbird on my phone!)
         | 
         | https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/how-subscribe-news-feed...
        
           | beagle3 wrote:
           | I used to use thunderbird to read RSS. The problem though is
           | that if you don't poll often enough (and for some feeds,
           | that's every few hours) you'll miss articles and updates --
           | and my laptop is sometimes off for a couple of days.
           | 
           | I've switched to NewsBlur a few years ago. Happy paying
           | customer. (But bot affiliated). The bonus is synchronized
           | phone/laptop/desktop reading status.
        
             | xpil wrote:
             | I've been using NewsBlur since G killed Reader. Great
             | service!
        
               | wiw2 wrote:
               | One of my favorite hacks: I made a google appscript that
               | scans a list of RSS feeds to email weekly digests.
               | Surprisingly simple, and much more useful then running a
               | separate RSS reader in my opinion.
               | 
               | I have to confess: little automations like this with low
               | barrier of entry is where I find most value in tech.
               | Simple and practical.
        
         | RcouF1uZ4gsC wrote:
         | Can you combine those two to get rid of privacy breaking stuff
         | like tracking pixels? First sign up with Kill the newsletter to
         | convert to rss, and then use rss2email to get a scrubbed
         | version of the email?
        
         | foreigner wrote:
         | I smell an entertaining loop!
        
       | hansy wrote:
       | Even for my own newsletter (https://funnies.page) I set up email
       | filters so I wouldn't get email notifications in the morning.
       | Eventually added RSS and the option to disable emails entirely.
        
       | DanielleMolloy wrote:
       | By the way, I found thematic newsletters like Import AI or the
       | Johns Hopkins University Covid newsletter very useful lately and
       | have been looking out for more of them.
       | 
       | I want to stay up to date with what is happening in ML (and in
       | the world) but don't want to burn time manually opening up RSS
       | readers, RedditML or news websites every day, given all their
       | abusive time-stealing distractions and soul-crushingly dumb
       | comments. I strongly prefer a weekly or daily carefully curated
       | summary automatically delivered to my inbox. Hopefully these
       | curated e-mail newsletters will become a thing again.
        
       | kleer001 wrote:
       | Why not both?
       | 
       | Some people have good control over their email inbox. Some don't.
        
       | TheRealPomax wrote:
       | How about... we do both? Because it's not exactly too much effort
       | to set up an atom and rss feed to go along with your email
       | newsletter.
       | 
       | Can we stop (subtly in this case, not so subtly in others)
       | crusading against tech that we don't _personally_ like, when
       | thousands upon thousands rely on it because that 's the format
       | they're comfortable with and want to receive periodicals in?
       | 
       | Set up a system that meets people where they are instead of
       | forcing them into only your preferred delivery flavour.
        
         | asjldkfin wrote:
         | I know you mean well, but this post is genuinely idiotic and
         | the definition of a straw-man argument.
         | 
         | That, or you did not even bother clicking into the link and see
         | what it is.
        
           | TheRealPomax wrote:
           | I did, I'm taking exception with the whole "kill the
           | newsletter" rallying cry. It's a bad call, and any "kill X!"
           | should be questioned even if what it's used to market is a
           | perfectly fine tool.
        
         | sgeisler wrote:
         | Isn't that exactly what the submission is about? It seems to be
         | a tool to convert any newsletter into an atom feed by creating
         | a fake inbox. This lets everyone consume the content in their
         | preferred format. Sure it would be nice if newsletters were
         | available as news feeds too, but in the meantime this is a nice
         | hack.
        
           | iamdamian wrote:
           | I'd guess that the OP is responding to the phrase "kill the
           | newsletter" rather than the specific tool.
        
             | TheRealPomax wrote:
             | that.
             | 
             | It's a perfectly fine tool, but "kill the newsletter" is an
             | incredibly bad rallying cry and should be questioned.
        
               | mfbx9da4 wrote:
               | it's just a catchy name!
        
       | frankfrankfrank wrote:
       | What am I missing? You name the feed and then get a link to
       | subscribe to it. How does the supply side actually provide the
       | newsletter/content that will be distributed to that address?
        
         | rmetzler wrote:
         | You also get an email address to subscribe to the email list
         | with.
        
       | Glench wrote:
       | I love this service. Been using it for a long time and have
       | switched all my newsletters to it. Now I get so many fewer
       | emails. As the creators of Hey figured out, it's wonderful to
       | have a separate feed of newsletters since they're fundamentally
       | different than other types of email -- they're generally not
       | urgent and don't need to be acted upon. I keep mine in my RSS
       | reader BazQux.
        
       | hiidrew wrote:
       | That's funny, I've always thought about a project that does the
       | opposite since I love newsletters but not ever RSS source
       | supports them
        
       | JustSomeNobody wrote:
       | I think we should go the opposite way. I think we should push
       | more onto email. email is pretty ubiquitous. Nearly everyone
       | online has email. It's as close to universal as anything else for
       | accessing people. Instead of having a dozen different chat apps,
       | push chats to email. Instead of a half dozen Slack wannabe apps,
       | push all that to email. We should expand the email protocol to
       | support that.
        
         | t0astbread wrote:
         | Two reasons why I don't think this is a good idea:
         | 
         | 1. Mixing different applications in one inbox would be a mess
         | for a lot of people (e.g. your IM would drown out important
         | work email)
         | 
         | 2. Privacy - avoiding unique online identifiers when they're
         | not needed is a good idea
        
       | petercooper wrote:
       | I think every email newsletter should offer an RSS feed as a
       | matter of course. With all of ours, you just stick /rss on the
       | end of the URL and off you go :-) e.g.
       | https://javascriptweekly.com/rss
       | 
       | With that said, I think there are some interesting opportunities
       | for turning certain types of email into RSS feeds _generally_. I
       | think it 'd be really cool to have all of the random and very low
       | priority emails landing at the 101 spare domain names I have to
       | turn up in a single feed somehow rather than be forwarded.
        
         | imglorp wrote:
         | Another HN today is talking about tracking pixels in newsletter
         | mails so the sender can evaluate effectiveness.
         | 
         | I bet a general mail-rss bridge with many subscribers would
         | make them sad.
        
           | samizdis wrote:
           | In case anyone's missed it, that's this thread:
           | 
           | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26162513
           | 
           | - from the BBC article _' Spy pixels in emails have become
           | endemic'_
           | 
           | https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-56071437
        
         | WWWWH wrote:
         | It's doable already. I do this with some low priority emails
         | and marketing newsletters---a gmail filter sends to a custom
         | email address of my rss reader. It's useful for getting low
         | priority stuff out of my inbox.
        
       | ChrisLTD wrote:
       | I love this service. I use it to subscribe to a few newsletters
       | in Feedly that don't offer RSS feeds.
       | 
       | The paid versions of Feedly and Feedbin also offer this
       | functionality directly if you prefer to pay for the privilege of
       | consuming newsletters in your RSS reader.
        
         | briandoll wrote:
         | Came here to say this, love how this works in Feedbin:
         | https://feedbin.com/blog/2016/02/03/subscribe-to-email-newsl...
        
         | Semiapies wrote:
         | Yeah, I'd be all over this service, but I'm a Feedbin user.
         | 
         | I'm reminded of 15-20 years ago, when there were services to
         | create RSS feeds of webcomics that didn't have them.
        
       | dethos wrote:
       | Newsblur, which is a very good feed reader, has this feature
       | built-in which is super handy to keep all this stuff in one
       | place.
        
       | kureikain wrote:
       | I think it came down to personal preferences. I tried to use RSS
       | but it's yet another app that I cannot form a habit to check it.
       | Plus I like the personal look and feel of each email newsletter I
       | got.
       | 
       | I instead of relying on email as a real time news feed. But
       | getting too many emails I have to category and make miss some
       | exciting development news.
       | 
       | I though of this, why not combine all of the newsletter and
       | display them on a single page, easy to remember URL that I can
       | check anytime.
       | 
       | And make this:
       | 
       | https://hanami.run/channel/devnews
       | 
       | The idea is I can have many channel, each channel subscribe to a
       | bunch of newsletter and I just read them from here. Example my
       | morning news:
       | 
       | https://hanami.run/channel/news
        
       | mikece wrote:
       | Why Atom instead of RSS? I understand the differences between the
       | two formats[1] but I am curious what it is about Atom that caused
       | the maker of this project to choose it over RSS.
       | 
       | [1] http://www.differencebetween.net/technology/difference-
       | betwe...
        
         | lucideer wrote:
         | The article you link lists numerous advantages to using Atom
         | over RSS (and no advantages to RSS). Why would you consider RSS
         | over Atom?
        
           | pvorb wrote:
           | I wonder why anyone would still use RSS over Atom. Atom was
           | already supported by virtually all feed readers when Google
           | Reader was shut down. And that was nearly 8 years ago.
           | 
           | The only reason I can think of is that people often use RSS
           | synonymously to feeds.
        
             | mmastrac wrote:
             | RSS is useful as a creator because it's so under-specified
             | that you can create valid RSS with virtually no effort (ie:
             | printf). It's a huge pain to consume it because every
             | single library needs to have crazy hacks to do things like
             | double-unescaping HTML.
             | 
             | Atom is the better format, but - like any time you work
             | with XML - you should never try to hand-bomb string output.
             | Use an XML library, or preferably an Atom library.
        
               | chrismorgan wrote:
               | I'd be far happier emitting Atom via printf than RSS via
               | printf. The Atom spec tells me what I should write,
               | whereas RSS goes in for unspecified behaviour and exotic
               | date formats that force me to look up strftime. Beyond
               | that, they're both XML, which is easy to write.
        
               | ncphil wrote:
               | The first time I realized Atom and RSS were actually
               | different standards was when I went to write a feed. "Oh.
               | Well that's interesting..."
        
           | billyhoffman wrote:
           | That article also has an XHTML 1.0 Transitional DOCTYPE, and
           | wastes a request trying to load JavasScript for Google
           | Plus.... this is not up-to-date information.
           | 
           | The "advantages" are minor at best, and exclusively relevant
           | to a developer, with very little impact on the end-user
        
             | chrismorgan wrote:
             | Not _exclusively_ relevant to a developer.
             | 
             | I have one or two things in my feeds that can't be
             | expressed in RSS, such as HTML markup in my titles (which I
             | use for <strong>, <code> and I think <em>). I also have
             | angle brackets in a title, which I would be afraid to do in
             | RSS because I'm confident that some clients would butcher
             | it, and they wouldn't even be _wrong_ since RSS don't care.
        
               | mikece wrote:
               | This, to me, makes me ask what the _purpose_ of a feed
               | even is. If it 's to deliver data then RSS, Atom, JSON,
               | or YAML shouldn't make any different at all. But if it's
               | to deliver data _and_ markup... now we 're making
               | decisions a client could override at best or result in
               | unreadable/a11y unfriendly content at worst. Maybe it's
               | just me but I've never considered the feed as a place to
               | be putting markup but even if we want to go that route
               | then RSS's <![CDATA[ ... ]]> addresses this. What am I
               | missing?
        
               | kemayo wrote:
               | Markup's part of the data. Particularly in chrismorgan's
               | example, where it's semantic content.
               | 
               | As for CDATA, I think you're right that it'd work in this
               | case (assuming that client apps cope with it there, but
               | if the Atom equivalent works then presumably it should).
               | 
               | I suspect that what we're looking at here is software
               | which is poorly generating its RSS. Probably Wordpress,
               | since I'm at least fairly confident that it doesn't put
               | CDATA in its item titles regardless of their content.
        
             | kemayo wrote:
             | > exclusively relevant to a developer
             | 
             | Which would presumably be why the developer chose it, yes.
        
             | lucideer wrote:
             | I wasn't expressing any opinion one way or the other, nor
             | did I provide the article as a reference. The original
             | commenter seemed to be questioning the choice of Atom over
             | RSS, and that article is what they posted as their
             | reference; which seemed odd to me since it argues for using
             | Atom over RSS.
             | 
             | Why would _you_ consider RSS over Atom (you seem to exhibit
             | a preference but you have also neglected to list any of the
             | reasons)?
        
         | chrismorgan wrote:
         | Atom is technically substantially superior to RSS. RSS is
         | riddled with ambiguities which lead to inconsistency of
         | interpretation, and being outright unable to express some
         | useful things.
         | 
         | My favourite is the format of all content: is it HTML or text?
         | RSS doesn't care, and leaves you to guess. So people added a
         | namespace to fix that up, and you end up with what I think is
         | normally spelled <content:encoded> to replace <description> or
         | whatever it is--but there's no equivalent for other content
         | fields like titles. And because you can't trust that tool will
         | use <content:encoded>, now you need both. (And when you get to
         | podcasts, the theme of the day is having the same field
         | expressed in four or five different namespaces for different
         | tools, in some cases for things that Atom has but RSS lacks.)
         | 
         | I have an article on my blog entitled <_>::v::<_>. I expect
         | that a few RSS readers would mangle it if I served an RSS feed,
         | but I serve an Atom feed, so I can express the title correctly:
         | <title type="html">&lt;code&gt;&amp;lt;_&amp;gt;::v::&amp;lt;_&
         | amp;gt;&lt;&#x2F;code&gt;</title>
         | 
         | (Bet you didn't anticipate the <code> wrapping of that title!
         | Now try _that_ in RSS!) Anyway, NewsBlur got it right, and if
         | any other client gets it wrong I can point to it and say that
         | it is unequivocally a bug, whereas with RSS... eh, there's
         | enough ambiguity to drive a spaceship through, so what does
         | "bug" even mean?
         | 
         | I hate the way that feeds are so commonly generically called
         | "RSS", because it gives mindshare to the bad and inferior
         | product.
         | 
         | The only reason you should _ever_ use RSS feeds is because
         | you're dealing with podcasts, because Apple sadly ignored the
         | emerging Atom format when they did podcasts in iTunes in 2005,
         | and annoyingly froze things in time there and then, and
         | everyone else stupidly followed them, so that most of the major
         | podcast things don't support Atom... even if they sometimes
         | claim to. (Like validation tools that allege that Atom is fine,
         | butcher it completely if you give it to them, and report false
         | results like that this RSS feed is fine or whatnot.)
        
           | beagle3 wrote:
           | I am a paying NewsBlur customer and like it very much.
           | 
           | It is, however, too picky about atom/rss - if you have a feed
           | with some wrong entries (e.g. the one from freshcode.club) it
           | will discard the problem items without a warning while still
           | showing the valid items.
        
       | dr_dshiv wrote:
       | Omg, newsletters and email groups work so much better than most
       | other attempts to replace. Are there data that support this
       | claim, though?
        
       | VWWHFSfQ wrote:
       | What's wrong with email newsletters? I actually like them quite a
       | bit.
        
         | ChrisLTD wrote:
         | For me, they get lost amidst the mountains of other email I
         | get. I also don't like reading longer form content in my mail
         | app. Having them sent to an RSS reader where I'm already
         | reading news is a nice way to avoid those clashes of context.
        
         | tutuca wrote:
         | And the format is in a some kind of revival. Some of the best
         | content I get is from newsletters these days.
        
         | enonevets wrote:
         | Not OP but for me I prefer subscribing via RSS as it helps
         | organize what I follow rather than add to more clutter in my
         | inbox.
        
         | jasonv wrote:
         | You have to view and manage and then delete them.
         | 
         | 99% of my inboxes are emails from non-humans. I'm ready to
         | stream them like RSS or Twitter.. and catch the ones I care
         | about.
        
           | [deleted]
        
         | t0astbread wrote:
         | For non-personalized newsletters it's pretty useless for you to
         | give out an email address. No one's ever gonna address you
         | individually so all it creates are potential privacy issues if
         | you give out your real email address.
         | 
         | The only benefit I can see even for non-personalized
         | newsletters is that you have it in your mailbox and can use
         | your normal email filtering tools to deal with newsletter
         | messages.
        
           | bmj wrote:
           | _it creates are potential privacy issues if you give out your
           | real email address_
           | 
           | Is this the same class of privacy issue as, say, subscribing
           | to a print journal that is delivered directly to your place
           | of residence (as opposed to a post office box)? I think you
           | could even argue that using anonymized email addresses for
           | your newsletter subscriptions could be the digital equivalent
           | of a PO box, right?
        
             | t0astbread wrote:
             | I think we mean the same thing, yes. (See my response to a
             | sibling about newsletter hosts building interest
             | profiles[1].)
             | 
             | The PO box analogy kinda falls apart unless you use a
             | separate PO box per subscription but you're right, email
             | aliases protect you from any kind of advertiser profiling.
             | Feeds are just nice because they're simple HTTP requests so
             | they don't have that problem in the first place (unless
             | you're worried about IP-based tracking and don't use any
             | kind of proxy).
             | 
             | [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26169411
        
           | VWWHFSfQ wrote:
           | I guess I've just never really considered my email address as
           | some kind of secret thing that warrants a privacy concern.
        
             | t0astbread wrote:
             | Neither do I, really, but I would be concerned about
             | newsletter hosts being able to build a profile of my
             | interests based on what I'm subscribed to.
             | 
             | If I can just use Atom/RSS over HTTP instead I can avoid
             | that easily.
        
       | raybb wrote:
       | I've used this a good bit and struggled with two things:
       | 
       | 1. Newsletter formatting sometimes gets broken and comes out ugly
       | 
       | 2. For longer newsletters or digests I sometimes skim too fast
       | since I'm used to having single articles in rss feed. I guess
       | this is more a comment on my reading habits with rss.
        
       | NAR8789 wrote:
       | FYI, the author has a patreon: https://www.patreon.com/leafac
       | 
       | (I hunted this down by clicking through to his bio first. Not
       | sure why he doesn't put a link to it on the kill-the-newsletter
       | front page)
       | 
       | (Not associated with the author in any way. Just a happy user)
        
       | rmetzler wrote:
       | I love that the author is doing code reviews on youtube and shows
       | his own opensource code for the service.
       | 
       | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FMTb3Z-QiPY
        
       | synergy20 wrote:
       | Actually I rely more and more on email(newsletters) after all
       | these years. I subscribed to quite a few newsletters and each
       | morning I just check the inbox, no need to visit 10+ different
       | sites, it's all in my inbox and mostly I just need browser them
       | and click on a few subjects I'm truly interested, thus less time
       | spending on ads from different sites. I installed a RSS extension
       | on the browser and still ended up back to the inbox, I disabled
       | the RSS reader a while ago.
        
       | ink_13 wrote:
       | Worth noting that Substack already publishes feeds at
       | YOURNAMEHERE.substack.com/feed
       | 
       | There are other newsletter publishers, of course, but that seems
       | to be the one I get the most from.
        
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