[HN Gopher] IKEA to discontinue its annual catalog, ending a 70-...
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       IKEA to discontinue its annual catalog, ending a 70-year run
        
       Author : RankingMember
       Score  : 342 points
       Date   : 2021-02-17 06:24 UTC (14 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.architecturaldigest.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.architecturaldigest.com)
        
       | IG_Semmelweiss wrote:
       | A lot of of folks dont realize this, but there is a direct link
       | between the fall of the catalog, the ascendancy of amazon, and
       | the demise of sears.
       | 
       | Back in the day, the Sears catalog was the behemoth for 3rd party
       | merchant sales, backed by Sears. You could get vendor credit,
       | fulfillment etc, all with sears. Virtually every service you get
       | today with Amazon (FBA, ads), you could get with sears, on their
       | catalog.
       | 
       | This is why the catalog was such a big deal.
       | 
       | It was the 20th century platform. And its dead now
        
       | rumblestrut wrote:
       | Sad to hear this. As a shopper of IKEA, I am not a fan of their
       | apps or online versions for shopping. I find flipping through a
       | catalog a much better experience.
        
       | Ovah wrote:
       | In the early 2000s Sweden it was not uncommon to have a 'No
       | advertising thank you, except for the IKEA catalog' sticker on
       | your mailbox.
        
         | samsari wrote:
         | Still is.
        
         | rags2riches wrote:
         | Examples:
         | 
         | https://lindawestermark.blogg.se/2009/august/ikea-katalogen....
         | 
         | https://sweden.kcomposite.com/ingen-reklam-tack/
        
       | Blikkentrekker wrote:
       | Ahh, IKEA, where people buy their furniture for the _Arch Linux
       | effect_.
        
       | kryptiskt wrote:
       | The IKEA museum has all the (Swedish) catalogues archived here:
       | https://ikeamuseum.com/sv/ikea-kataloger/
        
       | dirtyid wrote:
       | Wanted to collected IKEA catalogs until I realized they vary by
       | region due to item availability _. Still they 're fun reads, I
       | wish they compiled a big annual PDF of all IKEA products. Would
       | subscribe.
       | 
       | _ Someone commented below pandemic online shopping has crippled
       | IKEA, but I hope they get things sorted and eventually figure out
       | logistics of shipping items between region. Lot's of interesting
       | accessories like Asian cleavers and and woks in Asia market. I
       | know you can get those from any brand, but I like my 365+
       | collection. Also update some of the garbage planning tools, a few
       | of them still use flash early this year.
        
       | rzzzt wrote:
       | What am I going to read in the restroom, then?
        
       | mcv wrote:
       | Ages ago I heard that the IKEA catalog was the second most
       | printed book in the world, after the Bible. Considering it was
       | reprinted every year, often ignored or thrown away, and
       | completely superceded by websites, it's probably about time it
       | was discontinued.
       | 
       | Yes, I also have childhood memories of reading through that
       | thing, but these days if I want something from IKEA, their
       | website is the first and only stop. Let's save these trees.
        
         | acomjean wrote:
         | Reminds me of printed phone books. Every unit in my 35 unit
         | building would get a new one every year. They'd sit in a pile
         | (how many phone books do you need). For a couple years they'd
         | stack this years phone book on last years phone book.
         | 
         | Now not needed.
        
           | rement wrote:
           | Reminds me of when I was in elementary school and we would
           | have "phone book" drives. The class that collected the most
           | phone books to be recycled would get some kind of prize. I
           | remember walking around my neighborhood with a wagon
           | collecting phone books. Good times.
        
         | paxys wrote:
         | Not sure you can call it a reprint if the content inside is
         | completely different. If that was the case then a popular
         | weekly magazine would anyways have way more total prints.
        
       | switch007 wrote:
       | It seems to me like companies start/speed-up 'green' initiatives
       | in a recession. If memory isn't failing me, around 2008 and
       | thereafter hotels started nagging us about water usage, urging us
       | to reuse towels, skip cleaning etc.
        
       | hedora wrote:
       | I'll miss the digital version of the catalog. It sounds like
       | that's discontinued too.
       | 
       | I kind of wonder if Ikea is going to survive covid. Their web
       | page says everything I want is chronically out of stock. I don't
       | see why they can't pivot to touchless pickup or delivery.
       | 
       | Instead, I've been buying furniture online from more than one of
       | their competitors. The experience and quality control are worse
       | than an in-store Ikea run, but the selection is better. It's a
       | step sideways, I suppose.
        
         | kevincox wrote:
         | IKEA has delivery, at least to Toronto. However it is very
         | expensive and most things were out of stock for a long time or
         | restricted for in-store only (although it seems that a lot is
         | back in stock now).
        
       | russellbeattie wrote:
       | I just got (and am currently typing this on) a Samsung S7+
       | tablet. It's massive and has taken me a while to get used to, but
       | if we truly want to get rid of paper, this is the size e-readers
       | and tablets need to be. Since this thing is basically a giant,
       | relatively delicate pane of glass and metal and not even remotely
       | cheap, I think it'll be a while yet.
        
         | rchaud wrote:
         | As someone who's been attempting to read print magazines in
         | digitized from since the iPad came out, I've come to realize
         | that it's not about screen size, but convenience and
         | disposability.
         | 
         | Convenience because I can stuff it in a bag or leave it on a
         | coffee table, and not worry about its physical condition.
         | Convenience also because I can flip to any page and start
         | reading from there. On a tablet I'd need to use the horizontal
         | scrollbar to fast forward through pages and it doesn't feel the
         | same.
         | 
         | Reading a magazine on something that weighs over a pound is not
         | comfortable. I never felt like I was kicking back and chilling
         | with a magazine, just that I was holding a heavy, expensive
         | piece of glass to read something I could have bought on the
         | newsstand for 7 bucks.
        
       | durnygbur wrote:
       | Their catalogues didn't contain a single photography. You watch
       | CGI-porn with oversaturated colors and go to their place and
       | purchase furnitures from cartboard and paper. It's as if McDonals
       | was releasing paper catalogue with their menus.
        
         | dawnerd wrote:
         | That's not true. There's a documentary on ikea that shows them
         | taking photos. They use CGI but it's not 100%.
        
         | Spivak wrote:
         | I mean sure but when I post to IG I can add lights and
         | oversaturate my colors too. Like it feels weird to complain
         | that professional photography (including all the staging,
         | lighting, and editing work) actually makes things look better.
        
         | eru wrote:
         | You know that McDonald's has some interesting trick up their
         | sleeves for their advertising pictures, too?
        
           | Hamuko wrote:
           | Most restaurants do. I remember that whipped cream is usually
           | replaced with shaving cream and everything is usually full of
           | toothpicks to keep it together.
        
             | choward wrote:
             | Most of the stuff isn't edible and would kill you. Lots of
             | glue.
        
             | athenot wrote:
             | I have a relative who was making these "food" items out of
             | acrylic and resin in art school 20 years ago. She had made
             | a lobster on a bed of ice cubes that looked so real (and
             | was intended for high resolution photography).
             | 
             | Another project involved some beverage being poured into a
             | wine glass... it was actually constructed horizontally on a
             | pane of transparent glass, with a half wine glass
             | constructed over it. Truly amazing.
        
         | rchaud wrote:
         | That's part of the fun, and the 'inspiration'. Of course you
         | know that the items alone won't get you that IKEA look. And
         | most people don't want that anyway. It's the whole package the
         | catalog offered; room lighting, wall paint, window positions,
         | curtain types and furniture placement. Being able to to look at
         | this on a magazine-sized canvas (as opposed to a tiny mobile
         | screen where everything is in neat grids) that causes our minds
         | to run free with the possibilities.
        
       | DonHopkins wrote:
       | Has anybody asked GPT-3 to come up with fictional Ikea product
       | names? That would be hilarious!
        
         | Hamuko wrote:
         | Just shuffle a Swedish dictionary.
        
       | ToFab123 wrote:
       | That catalog was cycling around all internet design bureaus in
       | Denmark (Sweden and Norway too) for years around year 2000. IKEA
       | carpet bombed everyone with the task on how to put that catalog
       | online. No matter where you applied for a job they all said they
       | were working on the IKEA catalog. I have spend countless hours in
       | various workshops with that catalog. Happy to learn that the
       | mission finally has been completed and happy for all the trees
       | this will save.
        
         | konschubert wrote:
         | I don't think people will browse the catalog online like they
         | did it with the book.
         | 
         | When another app is just a flick away, people will jump off
         | much more quickly than with a book.
         | 
         | I know I will.
        
           | ToFab123 wrote:
           | I don't know what it ended up becoming as I have not used
           | IKEA online since long time, but I remember that the mantra
           | back then was, that they wanted the assembling manual put
           | online (how to put your IKEA furniture together). Back then,
           | 20 some years ago, it was their key mission to provide an
           | easy help with putting the furniture together. They did
           | realize very early on that an online catalogue must be more
           | that just a page with pretty pictures. They wanted to create
           | a universe for each individual product and make it very easy
           | for you to figure out how to put the furniture together. I
           | remember dedicated workshops where we talked about Virtual
           | Reality Headsets, 20 years ago as a tool to help people
           | assembly the IKEA product. Their wet dream was that you pick
           | up a box at your local IKEA store, put on your headset and
           | then you will be guided _for dummies_ through the assembly
           | process. This is 20 years ago.
           | 
           | Today, every time I hear about Microsoft HoloLens I think
           | about these IKEA workshops. The mission for Microsoft
           | HoloLens and the IKEA catalogue is in total alignment.
           | Everything Microsoft wants to do with their headset, IKEA
           | wanted to do with the catalogue 20 years ago. I am confident
           | that there is an Microsoft HoloLens/IKEA working group out
           | there somewhere prototyping this exact thing. Microsoft
           | HoloLens and IKEA catalogue is a very cool combination.
        
             | rchaud wrote:
             | I would love to have something like VR-assisted assembly
             | for household, car or computer repairs. I think IKEA has
             | attempted to design their stuff so that it doesn't require
             | that level of guidance for the most part.
        
             | konschubert wrote:
             | I can tell you that the last thing I want to do when
             | assembling an ikea shelf is to keep unlocking my phone :)
             | 
             | I've been trying to use the website because I miss going to
             | ikea and let me tell you... it's bland like amazon.com but
             | much less usable...
        
       | Gravityloss wrote:
       | I find paper catalogues really impractical because it's slow to
       | flip the pages and search is also slower (often you have to go
       | the directory at the end). Ikea's web page is okay, better than
       | the competition.
       | 
       | Availability is a problem for Ikea currently - but at least they
       | have a lot of volume and a really ruthlessly culled assortment.
       | So usually they're a lot better than the competition. Almost
       | everything is available for taking with you when you're at the
       | store. I bet if you're doing design work for Ikea, it goes
       | through a lot of checking before it will be produced.
       | 
       | Their personnel is absolutely great, I have really good
       | experience of that.
        
       | forgotmypw17 wrote:
       | Good riddance, in my opinion. 40 million copies of a thick
       | catalog with glossy pages means a couple shittons of not just
       | trees but petroleum and petrochemicals for production,
       | distribution, and disposal. Every year! And ten years ago, it was
       | nearly 200. https://archive.is/rHAhG
       | 
       | Can you even imagine a stack of one million catalogs?
       | 
       | That's space, trees, plants, mammals, birds, insects, mushrooms,
       | ... all being squeezed for a glossy catalog, most of which will
       | get thumbed through once or twice and sent to the landfill to
       | rot.
       | 
       | These catalogs do not biodegrade well, by the way, because
       | they're not just paper.
       | 
       | I love paper books, and I enjoyed browsing this catalog just like
       | many others in this thread, and yet I don't think I will miss
       | this one. Hopefully, other thick glossy catalogs will follow
       | suit.
       | 
       | Production of catalogs like this squeezes our biome, and if we
       | don't turn back, it will pop, and we'll be left with only enough
       | resources for a small fraction of us to survive.
        
         | systemvoltage wrote:
         | You're arguing with emotions but no objectivity.
         | 
         | Did you miss the memo where hordes of people drive their trucks
         | to IKEA and buy furniture that's designed to be affordable by
         | the middle class, costs an enormous amount of energy to produce
         | and recycle and has a huge carbon footprint?
         | 
         | But never mind those things, catalog is paper so it makes it
         | easy to market your argument to tree huggers.
         | 
         | The gas consumption alone to drive to IKEA dwarfs the energy
         | required to make and print catalogs.
         | 
         | Just don't go to IKEA and next time they won't print as many!
         | Problem solved. And you'll save gas too.
         | 
         | IKEA catalogs are culture. It's like saying let's close down
         | the Louvre museum because it's consuming too much energy and
         | inviting people to travel to Paris wasting more energy.
        
           | forgotmypw17 wrote:
           | I commented to get the thought process started.
           | 
           | The furniture and its procurement is only the next logical
           | step in the conversation.
           | 
           | Thinking and talking about this stuff is how I myself went
           | from buying Ikea furniture to no longer doing so.
           | 
           | I think that without having these kinds of conversations and
           | perpetuating them we have little hope.
        
             | systemvoltage wrote:
             | I'm with you. We should all strive to stop waste and do our
             | part.
             | 
             | I don't shop at IKEA for similar reasons and I have also
             | cut down Amazon purchases for random things that I can do
             | without.
             | 
             | I think I was being too harsh, but I am sad that the
             | catalogs are going away. They're such a big part of IKEA's
             | contribution to culture that it's carbon footprint can be
             | forgiven.
        
         | hef19898 wrote:
         | There is a ton of misconceptions out there about paper. Not
         | saying using less isn't a good thing, so.
         | 
         | Most paper uses a very decent amount of recycled paper, has ti
         | actually. To the point the industry faced issues last Q1 when
         | demand went down and there wasn't enough recycled paper on the
         | market. Trees are grown explicitly for paper production, and
         | are regrown in the same forests. Net forest losses are mainly
         | due to farming, e.g. in the Amazon region. Energy wise, paper
         | production offers great opportunities to balance the grid.
         | 
         | Most paper, at least in Europe, is actually recycled.
         | 
         | And electronics do have there issues as well. They consume raw
         | earthes, are consumed as well, end up in land fills and also
         | have quite extensive supply chains and CO2 foot prints. And
         | they consume electricity, which has to produced. And we are
         | nowhere near the necessary levels of renewables.
         | 
         | I do support getting rid of useless paper consumption, it just
         | not as straight forward as it seems.
        
           | pvarangot wrote:
           | Calling the place were they grow trees for paper a forest is
           | an exercise in grammatical pedantry at least. The flora and
           | fauna in those places is not similar to a real forest at all.
           | 
           | I some cases they don't even provide the same amount of
           | carbon capture because of all the energy spent on irrigation
           | that wouldn't be necessary without the groundwork they do to
           | make harvesting the trees easier.
           | 
           | Yeah more paper doesn't equal less trees, but it does equal
           | less forests because you can't grow a real forest if you are
           | constantly irrigating and harvesting trees.
        
           | latch wrote:
           | How much energy and water goes into recycling? Collecting,
           | sorting, processing?
           | 
           | Trees grown explicitly for paper still require energy to
           | plant, manage, cut and still represents a habitat loss.
           | Europe has absolutely obliterated its forests. Anything that
           | isn't a net gain is a major issue at this point.
        
             | qw wrote:
             | Please don't use "Europe" when comparing unless it applies
             | to all 50 countries.
             | 
             | Norway has actually increased the number of trees in the
             | last 100 years.
             | 
             | In 1925 the volume of Norway's forests was 300 million
             | cubic meters of wood. Today it adds up to 900 million cubic
             | meters.
             | 
             | Source: https://sciencenorway.no/enviroment-forest-
             | forskningno/norwe...
        
               | hef19898 wrote:
               | Not to forget, trees used in paper store a lot of CO2,
               | CO2 that is not released until said paper is ultimately
               | burned. Which takes a while.
               | 
               | As wth everything, hyper industrialisation didn't do
               | anything good. Sustainability used to be a hallmark of
               | forestry. If we could just go back to that, and adopt it
               | to maximize CO2 capture, it would be great. As would be
               | going back to pre-industrial animal farming, better for
               | the animals, better for the environment, better for the
               | farmers and better meat.
        
               | vinay427 wrote:
               | > Please don't use "Europe" when comparing unless it
               | applies to all 50 countries.
               | 
               | As someone who lives in a smaller European country, I can
               | empathize. At least on HN, it seems like both Europeans
               | (in the regional sense) and non-Europeans are guilty of
               | this. However, while the parent claim may or may not be
               | accurate in this case, I think the use of "Europe" can
               | reasonably be interpreted as referring to the region in
               | aggregate, just as North America or Oceania might be
               | used.
               | 
               | My larger problem with the parent and GP comments is that
               | they both make specific claims about "Europe" that aren't
               | self-evident without any citations.
        
               | latch wrote:
               | That seems a bit unfair since I was replying to someone
               | that was making positive generalization about Europe.
               | 
               | Also, at the risk of moving the goalpost, having more
               | trees than some arbitrary point in time isn't
               | particularly reassuring. In central Europe, at least,
               | 1925 would have been near an all-time low. The
               | deforestation in central and northern Europe has been
               | going on for millennia
               | (https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-017-18646-7)
        
           | illwrks wrote:
           | My understanding is that the recycling of paper is still
           | quite an intensive chemical process requiring lots of water,
           | bleaching chemicals etc.
        
           | throwaway5752 wrote:
           | Silviculture is an interesting subject, and while you're
           | right that a lot of pulpwood is sourced from timber
           | plantations, that isn't entirely benign. It is an an
           | agricultural process and many use fertilizers (haber-bosch
           | process, natural gas inputs), insecticides, and fungicides.
           | On the production end, the modern kraft process plant still
           | produces air and water pollution.
        
           | forgotmypw17 wrote:
           | Well, that covers the paper, for the most part. Thanks for
           | explaining that.
           | 
           | Now, let's talk about the other components:
           | 
           | the ink (petrochemicals, for the most part)
           | 
           | the production, transportation, and containers for the ink
           | 
           | the runoff into our biosphere from the ink production
           | 
           | the transportation of the paper to the printing facility
           | 
           | the binding (glue)
           | 
           | the transportation of the catalogs to the stores
           | 
           | the plastic wrap and other packaging for the catalogs
           | 
           | the labor put into it (perhaps those people could be paid to
           | rest instead? probably better for everyone all-around)
           | 
           | Did I miss anything?
           | 
           | How many dead, displaced, or injured animals do you think
           | that is per catalog? How many humans harmed by exposure to
           | manufactured poison? How many gallons of diesel extracted,
           | transported, refined, transported again, and burned? How many
           | dozen pieces of trucks, trains, and container ships mined,
           | produced, and worn down? Is it still better than viewing the
           | same catalogs online on an already existing computer screen?
           | 
           | Every single artefact produced by our system has a similar
           | footprint. It's not just money cost. And I think it's worth
           | considering.
        
             | WillPostForFood wrote:
             | You are talking about books in general right?
        
               | forgotmypw17 wrote:
               | Well, yes, although glossy pages create some extra
               | impact.
               | 
               | However, if the book in question is one which will be
               | kept for a while, actually read or referred to, perhaps
               | it is a more worthwhile endeavor?
               | 
               | Compare that to the other end of the spectrum, e.g.
               | supermarket ads, most of which do not even leave the
               | plastic bag which carries them into someone's front yard
               | and straight into the trash.
        
             | lhorie wrote:
             | That's not really an argument against paper catalogs
             | specifically, it looks more like an argument against
             | consumerism in general.
             | 
             | But taken to the logical conclusion, that argument can look
             | rather hypocritical, for example why is the discussion
             | about paper vs electronic catalogs for buying furniture and
             | not about why we even need beds and chairs to begin with,
             | while people in japan are fine w/ futons[0] and kotatsu[1]?
             | 
             | One can take the argument to extremes and argue that
             | amazonian forests burning in Brazil are partly due to you
             | and I existing and needing to eat and wanting to have kids
             | who need to be fed.
             | 
             | It's clearly a slippery slope, and if one draws the moral
             | line to make others bad, while conveniently claiming to be
             | "kosher" themselves, that's not really a convincing line.
             | 
             | [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Futon
             | 
             | [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kotatsu
        
               | lolcowz wrote:
               | I think your argument is the one falling down the
               | slippery slope. How does considering protecting the
               | environment to be good inevitably lead to arguments
               | against both our existences when a line can be clearly
               | drawn at the point where protection is advocated only so
               | far as to maximize humanity's survival? This extreme is
               | so clearly on the opposite side of that line compared to
               | eradicating paper catalogs which honestly isn't going to
               | kill anyone or stop us from "feeding our kids".
        
               | lhorie wrote:
               | I'm not saying one necessarily implies the other. That
               | was reductio ad absurdum precisely to demonstrate that
               | any argument of this type, no matter how sensible or
               | true, can be considered dismissible by _someone_.
               | 
               | I'm speaking to the idea of in-groups vs out-groups. For
               | example, think about veganism and how their activism
               | generally falls on deaf ears outside of their own
               | circles. Bringing supply chain arguments to this
               | discussion is very similar in the sense that they are
               | strictly true but easily dismissible by someone who
               | doesn't share the same set of values/priorities.
               | 
               | The line of argument might potentially even be self-
               | defeating, for example, if the takeaway is that
               | electronic catalogs > paper catalogs, never mind the rare
               | earth mines and sweatshops in china and that drawers in
               | ikea furniture still invite further consumerism. That's a
               | very very different takeaway than "geez I should buy less
               | stuff".
        
               | lolcowz wrote:
               | I'm not fluent in this logic lingo, but I don't think
               | there's a point in pointing out that someone might
               | believe in the absurd if its, well, absurd. Yes, surely
               | there are crazy people who will jump down every slippery
               | slope to misinterpret the very simple proposition that
               | something, all things considered and along the line I
               | have stated before, makes the world better, by taking it
               | to the absurd, but I don't think arguing on this person's
               | behalf like you are doing is particularly worthwhile if
               | you even acknowledge that the slippery slope is absurd.
        
               | forgotmypw17 wrote:
               | Anything taken to an extreme becomes absurd, sure. You're
               | right that my argument is not just against paper
               | catalogs, but against consumerism in general.
               | 
               | However, my aim is not to take it to the extreme, nor to
               | suggest that we shouldn't eat. It's merely to introduce a
               | measure of "seventh generation" thinking and
               | consideration into buying habits, beyond the amount of
               | funds it takes to procure something.
               | 
               | If I take it further than sounds comfortable to you in my
               | own life, it is only show what is possible, and to shift
               | the needle of normal a little bit towards the direction
               | of prudence and restraint.
               | 
               | Do we still need food? Of course! Do we need a place to
               | sleep comfortably? Of course we do, and I do not suggest
               | othrwise.
               | 
               | But what about new clothes when we already have quite a
               | few sets which are still good, or a new pair of shoes
               | when we still have a couple which are just a bit scuffed?
               | 
               | My argument is to consider the full systemic impact of
               | buying those items, something no one else will do for us,
               | before going through with it. If you consider this idea
               | next time you are about to buy something, that each
               | {dollar} spent comes back around in so many ways to harm
               | us and our close relatives on the biological tree of
               | live, then I will consider my writing a success.
        
               | heavenlyblue wrote:
               | Neither futon nor kotatsu add any vertical space to the
               | room as opposed to having a bed or a table with drawers
               | underneath
        
               | lhorie wrote:
               | In the context of this discussion (i.e. the suggestion
               | that consumerism is bad from an environmental impact
               | perspective), that'd actually qualify as a feature of
               | futons/kotatsu.
        
               | astrange wrote:
               | Kotatsu does add some space to the room, since it's a
               | table - you keep your legs under it and now you can put
               | stuff on top.
        
             | markandrewj wrote:
             | Pulp production.
        
             | AngryData wrote:
             | You are right, but it would be possible to produce like 99%
             | of that from trees, if we bothered to spend to effort. You
             | can distill trees into petroleum products, however doing so
             | breaks the illusion of how much organic material we are
             | burning through with just a single gallon of fuel or oil.
             | Rather than thinking "its just a single gallon of gas" it
             | turns into "well that as at least like 3-4 trees worth of
             | fuel."
        
             | einpoklum wrote:
             | But are you sure this is not all dwarfed by the overall
             | quantities and volumes which IKEA produces, transports and
             | sells? i.e. the furniture, decorations, fittings, textiles
             | etc. ?
        
               | forgotmypw17 wrote:
               | You're right, of course. The catalog is dwarved by all
               | the other products that come out of Ikea. I personally
               | don't partake in buying them for 10+ years now, because I
               | think about the stuff above. Plenty of furniture I can
               | get without pulling on that supply chain.
        
               | alistairSH wrote:
               | Possibly true, but so what? Every little bit helps and
               | this seems like an easy win, ecologically speaking.
               | 
               | I hate to think how much junk mail I receive every year.
               | We use a 14 gallon recycling bin and it's about half full
               | of waste paper mail EVERY WEEK in the USA. Catalogs,
               | flyers, credit card offers, loan offers, etc. It's
               | disgusting and I can't opt out.
        
               | AngryData wrote:
               | I agree, but to me it is still like holding a cup over
               | your head while it is raining outside and functionally
               | does almost nothing except spread the fake idea that we
               | are actually turning society green. Paper in general is
               | probably one of the least things we should be worried
               | about because it is one of the easiest things to farm and
               | uses minimal input compared to the bulk of material it
               | produces.
        
               | forgotmypw17 wrote:
               | What should we be concerned with even more, in your
               | opinion?
               | 
               | And how would someone who spends money reduce their
               | complicity?
        
               | einpoklum wrote:
               | > Every little bit helps and this seems like an easy win,
               | ecologically speaking.
               | 
               | It is likely not helpful if IKEA gets to enjoy the image
               | of an environmentally-friendly eneterprise based on a
               | token gesture. Many companies engage in such gestures to
               | get themselves off the hook for their involvement in
               | problematic practices.
               | 
               | I'm not saying that it's IKEA's fault that people buy
               | throw-away furniture, or that the population is growing
               | etc, but still.
        
               | alistairSH wrote:
               | Yep. Same for Apple: "We're leaving out the charger for
               | your $1000 phone. It's for the environment, we promise."
               | 
               | But, I'll take any environment win I can get at this
               | point.
        
               | systemvoltage wrote:
               | Precisely, never mind the hundreds of kitchen gadgets
               | they own and the fact that they drove to IKEA in a big
               | truck to buy cheap furniture.
        
               | forgotmypw17 wrote:
               | I don't own, nor purchase any kitchen gadgets, nor do I
               | drive a truck, nor do I buy furniture.
        
               | fullstop wrote:
               | They are very good at minimizing packaging. Also, my kids
               | use my IKEA dresser that I had when I was younger, bought
               | in 1989. I had to replace the rails and a few of the
               | knobs, but it's still in fantastic shape even after going
               | through several changes of residence.
               | 
               | Just throwing this out there -- it's not like all of this
               | stuff is ending in the trash. This dresser is over 30
               | years old now.
        
             | DanBC wrote:
             | > Did I miss anything?
             | 
             | You missed coatings, which can include minerals or
             | plastics. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coated_paper
        
               | forgotmypw17 wrote:
               | Thanks for this, I forgot.
               | 
               | One of the reasons they do not degrade well.
        
             | hef19898 wrote:
             | Transportation has propably the highest negative impact,
             | paper is aheavy bulk product after all. Animal impact, i
             | would say comparativley low. We are talking about decades
             | old economic forests here (there are of course exception
             | which should be prosecuted to the fullest where ever
             | possible). In Europa at least, these activities are not
             | having any more negative impact on wild life. Again, these
             | are not age old natural forestsanymore and haven't been for
             | quite a while.
             | 
             | I am not saying pushing the catalogue to digital is a net
             | negative, no idea how that could even be reliably
             | quantified. Just that paper and print production is by no
             | means as negative to the environment as is believed.
        
               | forgotmypw17 wrote:
               | are you saying there are no beings who live in those
               | woods and are displace?
        
               | chrisseaton wrote:
               | In a commercial wood farm? Not really, no. That's a big
               | problem with them - they're dead apart from the trees
               | being farmed.
        
               | Ar-Curunir wrote:
               | (Seeing Like A State, etc)
        
               | demosito666 wrote:
               | I think it's safe to say that there is no wildlife in
               | Europe, so this is more or less correct.
        
               | forgotmypw17 wrote:
               | Are you sure about that? This page suggests otherwise:
               | 
               | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fauna_of_Europe
        
               | qayxc wrote:
               | > I think it's safe to say that there is no wildlife in
               | Europe, so this is more or less correct.
               | 
               | You don't go out too much, do you? In my municipality we
               | have wolves - at a population density of 214 ppl/km2 no
               | less. Since there's no recorded killings of livestock by
               | wolves and they have to eat something, it's save to
               | assume we're OK on boars and deer, too. Not to mention
               | the rabbits, hares, badgers, various songbirds, birds of
               | prey, insects and other critters I encounter on a daily
               | basis when walking the dog. Through the local woods.
               | Which are very much filled with wildlife.
               | 
               | edit: I got the population density wrong - it's actually
               | much lower if the entire area is considered, not just the
               | town :) the correct figure including all land would be
               | ~45 ppl/km2.
        
               | danielbarla wrote:
               | I generally agree with your direction. That said, this is
               | incredibly hard to quantify (and also: [1]); because
               | wildlife is not uniformly negatively affected in a clear-
               | cut area. Any "artificial" intervention by humans will
               | favour some animals and harm others. Ignoring the fact
               | that it was probably humans who first cleared out
               | primordial forests, the very act of re-planting a forest
               | probably negatively impacted those species who don't
               | thrive in a forest setting.
               | 
               | I'd say having such forests which are relatively
               | unmolested for several years before being harvested are
               | less negative than clearing them out and placing say
               | farms in their place. So, overall it's not the biggest
               | thing to go after, but then, I'm no expert.
               | 
               | [1] also depends greatly on what type of cutting we're
               | talking about. I would say it's clear that illegal and /
               | or legal but permanent deforestation is a negative.
               | Above, I'm talking about forests which are planted and
               | re-planted to obtain their wood.
        
               | forgotmypw17 wrote:
               | good points.
        
               | varjag wrote:
               | How do you think?
               | 
               | https://e360.yale.edu/assets/site/_1260x709_crop_center-
               | cent...
        
               | forgotmypw17 wrote:
               | looks cozy. i'd live in there. :)
        
               | varjag wrote:
               | So guess the animals would too... if you had them food
               | brought in. Not much undergrowth to feed off.
        
               | forgotmypw17 wrote:
               | Where there's soil undisturbed, there are insects. Where
               | there are insects, there are larger creatures. Of course,
               | undergrowth would help.
        
             | jacquesm wrote:
             | energy
        
             | zests wrote:
             | Now do computers and computer screens.
        
               | forgotmypw17 wrote:
               | Exactly.
               | 
               | This is why I have not bought a new computer in 10+
               | years, and have only used hand-me-downs for the last 8,
               | with a similar track record on mobile devices.
        
               | lupire wrote:
               | That 10 yr old computer can browse a catalog.
        
               | criddell wrote:
               | Why? I'm going to have my computer anyway. Moving the
               | catalog to 100% digital is a win.
        
               | [deleted]
        
           | hinkley wrote:
           | "Logging forests," "working forests" are not forests. They're
           | tree farms. Calling them forests evokes a bunch of
           | assumptions about conservation that are mostly not true about
           | forestry trees.
           | 
           | We have a great deal of logging going on in temperate
           | rainforests and there are whole swaths of the food chain that
           | require moss growing on old growth trees. Clearcutting kills
           | all of this. So does leaving a few trees intact, which is
           | seen as some sort of improvement to conservation. It is not.
           | Everything dies, it just dies slower. Most of the flora and
           | fauna are adapted to full forest cover and high humidity. A
           | copse of trees does not provide any of this. Summer comes and
           | everything dries out.
           | 
           | We are still in need of a very different process for creating
           | paper products. Fishing exclusion zones are an interesting
           | model, but fish can move a lot farther than ferns, and a hell
           | of a lot farther than moss and the habitat they provide. We
           | may end up having to leaving a considerable amount of land
           | intact (larger blocks, closer to everywhere) to avoid tree
           | farm situations.
        
         | galfarragem wrote:
         | This may be the most demagogic HN comment I've read in years.
         | 
         | > 40 million copies of a thick catalog with glossy pages means
         | a couple shittons of not just trees but petroleum and
         | petrochemicals for production, distribution, and disposal.
         | Every year!
         | 
         | - What about about _daily_ printed newspapers?
         | 
         | - What about shop brochures that we receive _weekly_ in the
         | mailbox?
         | 
         | - What about toilet paper and derivates?
         | 
         | I can't understand people congratulating the discontinuation of
         | an _yearly_ book (arguably an historic document) instead of
         | focusing one order of magnitude higher.
        
           | forgotmypw17 wrote:
           | Well, we won't get rid of them all at once... But don't you
           | think it would be a good idea?
           | 
           | For what it's worth, I don't use toilet paper for its
           | intended purpose, and I bet my butt is way cleaner than yours
           | if you do. :)
           | 
           | I'm not sure why you are so critical of applauding one good
           | thing just because other bad things are still in place.
        
             | iso1631 wrote:
             | How do you blow your nose?
        
               | forgotmypw17 wrote:
               | The same way it's been done for millennia before, into a
               | cloth or into my hand which I then wash.
        
               | briandear wrote:
               | It must be exhausting to be so much better than the rest
               | of us.
               | 
               | I never understood the idea of privation being considered
               | progressive. It isn't progress to set the thermostat to a
               | more uncomfortable temperature in order to save energy.
               | It isn't progress to have massive grid outages because
               | windmills froze -- windmills that are sitting atop many
               | lifetimes of oil and natural gas reserves. It isn't
               | progress to freeze today because someone is theorizing
               | that Tuvalu is on the cusp of sinking. Yet Tuvalu is
               | growing in size instead of sinking but our policies still
               | feature Chicken Little fear-mongering as a tool of
               | control.
               | 
               | Sitting in a frozen-windmill-induced blackout in sub
               | freezing temperatures for day two in Houston of all
               | places makes me extremely irritated that the reason we
               | have a blackout is because the hysterical anti-carbon
               | crowd is afraid of a catastrophe that we've been promised
               | since Al Gore's inaccurate film. [1] A "catastrophe"
               | being used in a similar vein as the war in Eastasia. Or
               | was it Eurasia? Kind of hard to remember now given that
               | new printed books are being replaced by digital because
               | forgotmypw17 is worried about the carbon footprint of
               | ink.
        
               | forgotmypw17 wrote:
               | > It must be exhausting to be so much better than the
               | rest of us.
               | 
               | I don't recall claiming such a thing. I'm sharing what I
               | do and why, and if anyone wants to use my knowledge
               | they're welcome to.
               | 
               | Sorry about the blackout, and any role I have
               | inadvertently played in it.
               | 
               | No offense, there are many places around the world where
               | blackouts are a regular everyday (or even every day)
               | occurrence. Perhaps, you can give them a thought in an
               | idle moment.
        
               | Djvacto wrote:
               | > In truth, virtually all forms of power generation in
               | Texas suffered outages during the cold snap, with early
               | reports showing gas plants sustaining the most failures,
               | Webber said. Early Monday morning, ERCOT issued a news
               | release saying generation "across fuel types" had gone
               | offline, amid reports of wind turbines covered in ice and
               | natural gas wellheads freezing up.
               | 
               | https://www.houstonchronicle.com/business/energy/article/
               | Tex...
               | 
               | This is just the first source I found on google to quote,
               | but if houstonchronicle isn't a trustworthy news source
               | let me know. It seems like all forms of energy suffered
               | from a lack of winterization. To me, it seems the issue
               | is not that renewable energy was depended upon, but
               | rather that the whole system was unprepared for a cold
               | snap like this.
               | 
               | > But the vast majority of energy the state generates is
               | through natural gas. In October 2020, the U.S. Energy
               | Information Administration reported that renewables
               | generated 22% of the state's energy, while gas generated
               | 51.8%.19 hours ago
               | 
               | https://www.kxan.com/news/texas/are-frozen-wind-turbines-
               | to-...
        
               | burkaman wrote:
               | > ERCOT said Tuesday that of the 45,000 total megawatts
               | of power that were offline statewide, about 30,000
               | consisted of thermal sources -- gas, coal and nuclear
               | plants -- and 16,000 came from renewable sources.
               | 
               | - https://www.chron.com/news/article/Texas-blackouts-
               | fuel-fals...
        
           | pessimizer wrote:
           | I don't understand the reasoning behind defending someone who
           | kills six people by mentioning three people who killed ten.
           | Do you seriously think the person you've replied to is happy
           | about daily printed newspapers, junkmail, and wasted toilet
           | paper?
        
             | mcv wrote:
             | Not that person, but I do enjoy reading my newspaper from
             | paper.
             | 
             | But I recently decided to switch to digital. The paper
             | keeps piling up, and I increasingly find myself reading the
             | news on their app.
        
             | galfarragem wrote:
             | I believe the fair proportion is 3 people that killed 100
             | people each running free while we congratulate the police
             | for jailing the guy who insulted us.
        
           | rrrazdan wrote:
           | What about them?
        
           | kristofferR wrote:
           | At least in Norway we have stickers we can put on our
           | mailboxes that makes it illegal to add mail spam to them.
           | 
           | Pretty simple solution, should be standard everywhere.
        
         | S53Vflnr4n wrote:
         | Shouldn't we more worried about using toilet paper than IKEA
         | catalog if we want to save trees ? Using a bidet is very easy
         | and clean.
         | 
         | https://blog.nationalgeographic.org/2010/04/16/toilet-paper-...
        
           | forgotmypw17 wrote:
           | It's true, and a bidet proper isn't necessarily needed.
           | 
           | I haven't used an actual bidet in a while, but I honestly
           | find it hard to fathom not washing my butt after pooping now
           | that I've started doing it.
           | 
           | TP is just smearing it around...
        
             | fredsir wrote:
             | Can you explain how you wash your butt afterwards? Do you
             | take a shower? Sit in the sink and rinse with soap?
        
               | forgotmypw17 wrote:
               | It depends on the circumstances. I may get into the
               | shower or I may hang my butt over the tub or sink.
               | 
               | The basic method is to keep washing it and rinsing it off
               | and then washing off my hand, until I no longer feel poop
               | or anything resembling it on my butt. Be gentle. No soap
               | on the butt, that will dry it out. (As I mentioned in
               | other posts, I don't use soap anywhere besides my hands.)
               | 
               | I then keep washing it, occasionally washing off my hand.
               | When I can rub my butt with my hand it comes back not
               | smelling like poop at all, I consider my butt to be
               | clean.
               | 
               | If you look at animals, they do something similar, though
               | they have to lick it clean. I consider myself very
               | fortunate and blessed to not have to do that. :)
               | 
               | Afterwards, I wash my hands, get dressed, and then wash
               | my hands again.
        
             | AngryData wrote:
             | If you are just smearing it around then I think you have
             | both a diet and a method problem.
        
               | forgotmypw17 wrote:
               | Here is a challenge for you:
               | 
               | After you're done wiping as thoroughly as you will, run
               | your hand or another piece of toilet paper through your
               | butt and smell it.
        
         | ngngngng wrote:
         | "The OPA man, Anderson Dawes, was sitting on a cloth folding
         | chair outside Miller's hole, reading a book. It was a real book
         | --onionskin pages bound in what might have been actual leather.
         | Miller had seen pictures of them before; the idea of that much
         | weight for a single megabyte of data struck him as decadent."
         | 
         | - Leviathan Wakes, James S. A. Corey
        
           | alvarlagerlof wrote:
           | I've been watching the series and haven't heard that quote.
           | Might just have to read the books now.
        
             | ngngngng wrote:
             | I started with the series as well, after the previous
             | season ended I became desperate to continue the story so I
             | started reading them. They did such a good job with the
             | series but the books were so good already.
        
           | forgotmypw17 wrote:
           | Great quote, thanks for posting it.
           | 
           | Books are not just decadent, they're also a reliable store of
           | information which cannot be erased or altered easily without
           | our knowledge.
           | 
           | There's immense and irreplaceable value in paper books, and
           | I've taken to collecting the best ones.
           | 
           | I just don't think there's much value in this particular one.
        
             | heavenlyblue wrote:
             | Books (especially used ones) are also generally cheaper
             | than digital copies.
        
             | TheOtherHobbes wrote:
             | Most paper books don't last. Paperbacks are printed on
             | cheap acidic paper that yellows and eventually starts to
             | crumble. The glue in the spine dries and cracks.
             | 
             | Hardbacks are more likely to last, and premium heirloom
             | hardbacks = special print runs with special materials and
             | extra assembly effort - are most likely to survive.
             | 
             | But for what? Most heirloom hardbacks are better-than-
             | average novels for well-heeled fans and collectors, not a
             | complete guide to rebuilding civilisation.
             | 
             | I'd be all for an apocalypse-beating Self-Study Handbook of
             | The Important Stuff We Worked Out and Did, but good luck
             | finding a publisher to fund what would be a massive
             | project.
        
               | forgotmypw17 wrote:
               | Some of the most valuable books have more to do with the
               | inner world than the outer.
               | 
               | Other than binding, which can be re-done pretty easily,
               | paperbacks are readable after 50-100 years.
               | 
               | The paper may yellow, but crumbling takes a bit longer.
        
               | TheOtherHobbes wrote:
               | You may have been unusually lucky. I barely dare open
               | some of the paperbacks I bought in the 70s and 80s.
               | 
               | Although I have PDFs of all of them, so it doesn't
               | matter. The fact that I can change the font size to make
               | them legible now does, to me at least.
               | 
               | The hardbacks are still fine. (Except for the print
               | size.)
        
               | kwhitefoot wrote:
               | I have several paperbacks that are getting close to their
               | centenary. They are getting slightly fragile but that is
               | a long way from saying that the content is unusable.
               | 
               | And I have several books published in the nineteen
               | thirties and forties that would serve well to reboot
               | civilization having comprehensive instructions for
               | building all sorts of necessary machinery, buildings,
               | clothes, etc. There were many such books with titles such
               | as "Everything Within" and "The Handyman's Complete Self-
               | Instructor".
               | 
               | There is no need for a publisher to fund a massive
               | project; most of what is needed is already available on
               | paper and increasing amounts of it have been scanned so
               | that anyone with a laser printer can make their own
               | permanent copy.
               | 
               | Of course those 1930s and 40s books won't tell you how to
               | build a modern computer but they do tell you how to build
               | a radio without needing to build a chip fab first.
               | 
               | And it seems that there is sufficient interest
               | (presumably as conversation pieces) for some such books
               | to be republished: https://bookshop.org/books/the-
               | handyman-s-complete-self-inst...
        
               | 52-6F-62 wrote:
               | 100%. My half-kidding "end of the world/zombie
               | apocalypse" plan was always to pile some food into
               | Robarts Library (Toronto) and gather the books I'd need
               | to make it.
               | 
               | 1) Endless knowledge
               | 
               | 2) It's a bloody fortress
               | 
               | Kidding aside, though, and also being one that maintains
               | a small library I have to agree. Most of them are not so
               | cheap as to actively degrade so fundamentally as to be
               | unreadable. Maybe old dime-store dramas. I mean, unless
               | you've left them open in the sunlight for 50 years.
        
               | geerlingguy wrote:
               | Sadly as radio goes the way of tv and switches to HD over
               | time, I fear the analog equivalents that you can somewhat
               | easily tune with a simple circuit may not still be around
               | in 20, 30, 40 years.
        
               | mc32 wrote:
               | Henry Stephens Book of the Farm from the 1800s can still
               | be useful today, for example.
        
               | timgl wrote:
               | You're in luck, someone already has [0]
               | 
               | [0] "The Knowledge" by Lewis Dartnell
        
               | ardy42 wrote:
               | > But for what? Most heirloom hardbacks are better-than-
               | average novels for well-heeled fans and collectors, not a
               | complete guide to rebuilding civilisation.
               | 
               | They're not a guide for rebuilding civilization. They're
               | something that can last _through_ whatever dark time you
               | 're considering in some semi-forgotten corner, so the
               | _next_ civilization can learn about and study what came
               | before. And honestly, they don 't need to last the whole
               | time, but rather only until thins recover enough that you
               | start to have copyists, etc.
        
             | yardie wrote:
             | We assume books are permanent because we've always had
             | them. But in medieval times books weren't permanent. We
             | only have the knowledge that we do now because monasteries
             | had a dedicated team of monks who constantly copied and
             | rewrote books onto new parchment.
        
               | bluGill wrote:
               | True, good modern paper of the types those monk used
               | lasts about 500 years or so in the typical case. (meaning
               | no fire-flood, both of which were common; and not in a
               | carefully climate controlled area which can add thousands
               | of years). We haven't really improved on paper since
               | then. There is a lot of cheap paper that will fall apart
               | in less than 100 years, but those monks didn't use that.
               | 
               | What digital storage do you have that will last that
               | long? A few CDs would in the ideal case (but most are not
               | that grade). I'm not clear how long SSDs will last.
               | Magnetic tape becomes brittle and single read in about 30
               | years as we know from history.
               | 
               | The only advantage of digital is IF you care at all it is
               | easy/cheap to copy to something new.
        
               | ashtonkem wrote:
               | It only seems like we've always had them because most
               | people want books from this century. The further back you
               | go the harder it is to find any type of book, even mass
               | produced dime novels, because a lot of them have rotted
               | away.
               | 
               | If you actually want books to last a long time, they must
               | be stored under controlled conditions by an actual
               | archivist.
        
             | Cthulhu_ wrote:
             | Narp, I mean some will probably end up as collector's items
             | in a hundred years, as a glance into 2021 design trends -
             | 100 year old advertisements and catalogs are great
             | collectibles and time capsules nowadays - but at the moment
             | they're more of a nice to have for the next year or so. I
             | do like leafing through things like that sometimes, but at
             | the same time I don't mind going to the physical store for
             | a browse. More useful.
        
             | ngngngng wrote:
             | As it relates, the only reason I could find that quote to
             | reply to you was because I have the book in digital format.
             | I remembered the word leather, and "leather" only appears
             | in Leviathan Wakes 8 times, making it easy to find.
             | 
             | I love paper books as well, but I think the authors have
             | prophetically captured the inevitable. Cutting down forests
             | to only add tangibility to our bytes just isn't worth it.
        
               | vidarh wrote:
               | The quote is particularly relevant when discussing
               | _space_ though. It 's specifically the weight to data
               | ratio that's called out as decadent. Something that's
               | more relevant if you're used to travel with severe
               | constraints on weight much more often than we are.
               | 
               | I agree that it's inevitable that things move that way -
               | my only paper books in recent years have been to complete
               | my collection of Ian Banks because that particular
               | edition looks gorgeous, and Stalenhag's art books. I
               | don't anticipate buying more paper copies of novels or
               | textbooks unless there are books I can't find in digital
               | version.
               | 
               | But at the same time, I just published a scifi novel and
               | was surprised at how large a proportion of sales are
               | still made up by paperback (not exactly selling millions,
               | so it's not exactly a large sample of the market). It
               | seems like it will take a long time before paper books
               | become _unusual_ to the point of being considered
               | decadent.
        
               | forgotmypw17 wrote:
               | Plenty of existing books to be found without having to
               | source new ones.
               | 
               | Many, many books are being discarded these days, so I
               | don't have to buy new, or buy at all.
        
               | 52-6F-62 wrote:
               | Many towns' library systems do giveaways as well.
               | 
               | My old hometown's system used to do a semi-regular
               | culling at the yearly mini arts & crafts fest in the
               | park. They'd lay out 5 long rows of tables and cover them
               | in old books that had to be retired. You could take as
               | much as you could carry for a donation of any size.
               | 
               | I used to go when I was in my teens and had two dollars
               | to rub together, and I still go back now in my 30's if
               | I'm in town (with more of a donation). I've found some
               | real gems.
        
           | dsego wrote:
           | Well, we're likely one strong magnetic pulse away from having
           | only paper books as a source of information, so there is
           | that.
        
             | onion2k wrote:
             | Electromagnetic pulses can't wipe CDs or DVDs, so we'd
             | definitely still have anything stored on those, and most
             | data centres are designed with EM shielding so we could
             | still have data stored in the cloud unless it was a
             | _massive_ pulse. I think we 'd be OK.
        
               | Retric wrote:
               | CD's and DVD's require players which are susceptible to
               | EM pulses. It seems extremely unlikely for that kind of
               | global EM pulse to happen, but I can't exactly say it's
               | impossible.
        
               | ryder9 wrote:
               | fires destroy books, and there are more fires than EMPs
               | 
               | more fires have destroyed entire libraries than EMPs have
               | destroyed storage or digital storage reading devices
        
               | dividedbyzero wrote:
               | I'm no EM-pulsicist, but I believe an EM pulse capable of
               | inducing destructive currents in conductors as relatively
               | short as those you'd find in an (unplugged) CD/DVD
               | player, and doing that all over the globe, such a pulse
               | would have to be ridiculously, absurdly massive. Are
               | there any events or things we know about that could do
               | this without also, say, sterilizing the planet?
        
               | depressedpanda wrote:
               | Coronal mass ejections can cause geomagnetic storms that
               | will mess with electronics globally.
               | 
               | It happened back in 1859, but it's effects were limited
               | as the only susceptible tech was telegraph systems.
               | 
               | https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carrington_Event
        
             | iso1631 wrote:
             | On the other hand of all the books I'd like to save, the
             | Ikea catalogue isn't top of the list.
        
         | tutfbhuf wrote:
         | > Can you even imagine a stack of one million catalogs?
         | 
         | The stack would reach from earth to ISS multiple times.
        
         | frankfrankfrank wrote:
         | 1) What do you think IKEA furniture is made of?
         | 
         | 2) What do you think the impact is of poorly constructed IKEA
         | furniture that lasts some small fraction of time of massive
         | wood furniture.
         | 
         | If you want to go off, then go off on the fact that our
         | governments support the creation of throwaway products rather
         | than long lasting products.
        
           | forgotmypw17 wrote:
           | I agree on the Ikea furniture bit, and the impact it has. The
           | catalog is only the beginning.
           | 
           | I can't do anything about what our governments support. I can
           | do something about what I support and what I am complicit to.
        
         | creddit wrote:
         | > These catalogs do not biodegrade well, by the way, because
         | they're not just paper.
         | 
         | Great! A new carbon capture method that also provides utility!
         | I'll take 40M please.
        
           | ric2b wrote:
           | I don't think you're saving any carbon emissions by printing
           | IKEA catalogs...
        
         | bigtones wrote:
         | Tell that to Restoration Hardware (RH).
        
       | underseacables wrote:
       | The IKEA book book! https://youtu.be/MOXQo7nURs0
        
       | Gaelan wrote:
       | dang, doesn't seem like this adds much over the NPR story it
       | links to: https://www.npr.org/2020/12/07/943886033/emotional-but-
       | ratio...
       | 
       | (By the way, does the keyword "dang" actually do anything to help
       | summon you?)
        
         | pgyc wrote:
         | Yes, its something we introduced a while back but we don't
         | actively broadcast it to avoid abuse.
        
           | [deleted]
        
       | wrongdonf wrote:
       | I love ikea. In the 90s and naughts it was a symbol of progress
       | and its products complemented the sheik style that was so popular
       | at the time. And it was commonly said to be cheap, and
       | contributed to a new style of ephemeral living that was the
       | precursor to modern tech nomadism and living by wire so to speak.
       | Fresh euro-style industrialized in American fashion. But recently
       | IKEA hasn't seemed very cheap to me. And the throwing away of the
       | olde ways has now progressed to a point where AGI can no longer
       | be written off completely and with that comes the feeling that we
       | may soon have thrown away too much.
        
       | sxp wrote:
       | I'm going to miss this catalog. I really enjoyed browsing through
       | the catalog once I learned it was mostly CGI:
       | http://web.archive.org/web/20170327144912/http://www.cgsocie...
        
       | crististm wrote:
       | IKEA catalog is like the "I'm feeling lucky' google button.
       | 
       | I guess we'll see soon what it means to get rid of it.
        
         | ed312 wrote:
         | Getting rid of that button (and feature) is the ultimate "we
         | prioritized metrics-based design" over any human input or craft
         | canary. We love old buildings because of an innate human craft
         | and attention to detail. That button, to me, represents a
         | digital form of that same emotion.
        
       | chiefalchemist wrote:
       | I'm certainly in favor of mitigating damage to Mother Nature. But
       | this particular issue isn't that simple. Unfortunately, there are
       | other nefarious force that should also be considered.
       | 
       | Will we be able to browse the new catalogue without every scroll
       | and click being tracked? For eternity?
       | 
       | Trees are renewable. Privacy? Much less so.
        
       | steve918 wrote:
       | Somewhat unrelated IKEA has been brought to it's knees during the
       | pandemic and it has made their online ordering completely
       | useless. For a company shifting focus to online only I would
       | think they would want to be able to ship some things purchased
       | online.
       | 
       | Stock is also low in the Portland store, but even the few items
       | available can't be purchased online and shipped to me. I've tried
       | to order a number of things recently and they won't ship anything
       | to my house.
        
         | justin66 wrote:
         | Their online ordering was never any good. I hate to think it's
         | gotten worse.
        
           | rplnt wrote:
           | It wasn't the ordering that sucked, they had very limited
           | capacity at the stores to actually prepare the goods, as well
           | as limited (and expensive) shipping. E.g. limiting orders per
           | day - you had to order at midnight.
        
             | brazzledazzle wrote:
             | It's definitely both a trash online shopping experience as
             | well as capacity issues. Considering there's a pandemic I
             | can't blame them for the latter but the former deserves the
             | criticism.
        
         | madsohm wrote:
         | In Denmark it's even worse than sucky shipping. Here we pay to
         | collect our purchased items ourselves. So it's the items price
         | plus ~$6 to collect it.
        
           | johnchristopher wrote:
           | IKEA's click and collect.
           | 
           | It's my understanding that the extra fee pays for time not
           | spent in IKEA's alley (click) and the preparation of your
           | purchases (collect).
        
         | Zigurd wrote:
         | Last year I needed some bed linens. I like Ikea design, and I
         | have some Ikea bed linens. My naive thought was that, surely, I
         | could order bed linens online and have them delivered. No. No
         | you can't. You just can't.
         | 
         | That is astounding at a time when anyone with a free website
         | whacked together in a no-code site-builder can drop in an
         | e-commerce widget and have a first rate online shopping
         | experience for customers, with a "cart," check-out, payment,
         | etc.
         | 
         | Even when I was willing to shop in person, Ikea's tech was a
         | frustrating factor. You cannot tell if every component of a
         | couch configuration you want is in stock. You can't put the
         | stock on hold. All you get is a red/yellow/green indicator of
         | how much stock a store has. Since a couch has several modules
         | and each module has a separate stock item for base, back
         | cushion, and seat cushion upholstery, the odds of getting
         | everything in one trip approaches zero.
         | 
         | I cannot think of anywhere else where a few tens of millions in
         | tech development could more obviously build billions in
         | enterprise value.
        
         | mytailorisrich wrote:
         | As many others have commented, IKEA's online ordering has
         | always been bad and so has been their service, delivery fees
         | are also quite high (in the UK at least).
         | 
         | IMHO, their focus is the in-store experience and have an online
         | offering because they feel they have to but they never wanted
         | to develop it too much.
         | 
         | Even their "click and collect" service is quite bad in my
         | experience (but maybe that was that particular store): It's not
         | well organised in-store, the collection area looks a mess, and
         | the employees are uncaring.
        
         | vincentmarle wrote:
         | Besides the fact that the items that I needed weren't in stock
         | in the nearest 2 IKEA stores (which meant I had to drive 1.5
         | hrs to the 3rd one), the Click & Collect pickup itself was
         | pretty seamless. Just park and scan the QR code and they bring
         | the cart to your car.
        
         | Griffinsauce wrote:
         | Their support systems have also fully broken down here in the
         | Netherlands.
         | 
         | Phone is not available because their people are working from
         | home (this is entirely a solvable problem...), there's no email
         | and the chat channels are so overwhelmed that it takes a week
         | for them to respond.
         | 
         | This is not a great experience when you received nothing and
         | your delivery is marked as "delivered a week ago" in a
         | completely borked status page.
        
         | ThePadawan wrote:
         | Personal anecdote, buz IKEA's online shopping has always suckes
         | for me, even before 2020.
         | 
         | - Shipping options disappear and reappear randomly when
         | refreshing the shopping cart
         | 
         | - some items just cannot be bought online for no clear reason
         | (baking spatulas cannot, cooking spatulas can)
         | 
         | - Several packages arrived completely smashed open, and
         | returning them involved bringing them "back" to the nearest
         | IKEA which wasn't particularly fun with 35kg of furniture and
         | no car.
        
           | arkitaip wrote:
           | IKEA's online shopping even sucks in Sweden, with shipping
           | being expensive or online ordering unavailable for many
           | products. Honestly their rate if innovation kinda sucks
           | outside their narrow field of expertise (huge furniture
           | warehouses). Like, they have for decades been discussing
           | offering small stores to sell everyday necessities to
           | customers who can't or won't travel to their warehouses
           | outside the cities, but nothing has come out of it.
        
             | sethhochberg wrote:
             | It seems like something is maybe starting to happen with
             | the small city store idea - in NYC, IKEA already has a
             | pretty normal-sized store in a relatively industrial area
             | of Brooklyn, but recently opened an experimental small-
             | format store in Queens and has a really small-format store
             | in Manhattan.
        
             | brazzledazzle wrote:
             | On the US site I can't even log in and view my orders. I
             | have to paste in the order number. I also noticed my "IKEA
             | family" login doesn't work at the normal IKEA login page
             | which makes me think it's two distinct systems with some
             | kind of federation. It's bizarre and I can only imagine the
             | legacy cruft and/or dysfunction that led to this.
             | 
             | If this is how bad it looks from the outside I can only
             | imagine what it's like working there.
        
           | bobthepanda wrote:
           | Also, don't make the mistake of trying to call for a return.
           | IKEA US had a 3+ hour long wait for the phones.
        
           | universa1 wrote:
           | the online shopping isn't the best, but then with the current
           | lockdown in germany you can do click&collect and get your
           | stuff in the parking garage... still kinda sad they still
           | charge 10EUR extra for that (instead of 15 during normal
           | times), but then it worked flawlessly and the stuff was ready
           | for pickup the next day.
           | 
           | still limited to things available in the local ikea, you can
           | not mix "online" available and local available stuff...
        
           | wojciii wrote:
           | The site is horrible and their phones are not being taken
           | because they have too many calls here in DK. I'm not going to
           | use IKEA unless I strictly have to based on the experiences I
           | had during the last few months.
        
           | mrweasel wrote:
           | > some items just cannot be bought online for no clear reason
           | 
           | I think there's a pretty clear reason. During normal
           | circumstances, those items are not sold online, because they
           | specifically WANT you to go to a warehouse. If you're looking
           | for a couch or a table, it doesn't matter than much, that's
           | deliberate shopping. The smaller items, those lead to impulse
           | purchases.
           | 
           | Even tried going to Ikea to just get a frying pan, or a bath
           | mat? You'll end up buying 10 more items, because: Hey, it's
           | cheap, and the drive was 30 minutes the wrong way, might as
           | well stock up.
        
             | ThePadawan wrote:
             | That doesn't explain why I can buy single coat hangers
             | online, but not single spatulas.
             | 
             | > (...) You'll end up buying 10 more items
             | 
             | This is also sort of a meme. I have taken trips to IKEA
             | maybe 30 times in my life, and I walked out of there with
             | exactly what was on my shopping list (or less, because the
             | items sucked or were out of stock) 95% of the time.
        
               | DonHopkins wrote:
               | You should try Spatula City!
               | 
               | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4BUDwj_mXKE&ab_channel=Mo
               | vie...
        
               | ema wrote:
               | It probably depends on the person. I for one never leave
               | IKEA without having bought something I hadn't even
               | thought about beforehand.
        
               | avh02 wrote:
               | I feel cheated if i don't impulse buy something. :p
        
           | matsemann wrote:
           | > _Shipping options disappear and reappear randomly when
           | refreshing the shopping cart_
           | 
           | I got saved by this not long ago. Needed a fridge the next
           | day after moving into a new apartment. Was prepared to spend
           | the day cycling to IKEA, buy the fridge and rent a car, get
           | it all the way home, deliver the car and bike back. But then
           | the website borked and let me choose next day express carry
           | inside for 0,- saving me the trouble of carrying the fridge
           | up stairs, renting a car etc.
        
           | avh02 wrote:
           | Also anecdotal: needed some small items from there (because
           | it matches what I've already got) and their click and collect
           | in Berlin was super well done. You could order to pick up the
           | next day.
           | 
           | They had converted their entrance and exit "lobbies" in to a
           | zone where carts of items were prepped and after they confirm
           | your order they'd just roll the cart with your order out of
           | the door and leave you to take it from there.
           | 
           | Obviously you have to be prepared for heavier items, etc, but
           | it was fast.
           | 
           | That said, I had some less urgent stuff to get, and ordered
           | online, took 3 weeks to even process/ship (though i knew that
           | in advance)
        
         | szszrk wrote:
         | This is unfortunately true for my country as well. Online
         | catalog is not on par with regular store availability. It's
         | even weirded if you take into account that their delivery fees
         | are very high. It's often cheaper to buy small amounts of IKEA
         | goods from resellers that just go to IKEA and buy it for you,
         | then ship with standard services.
         | 
         | Does US stores also have the ability to pick items up from a
         | warehouse next to their stores? Btw. how is this option also a
         | paid one is beyond me.
         | 
         | This is unfortunate as they have a really cool offer of smart
         | devices (lights, remotes, battery powered blinds, etc), which
         | by default are not online (can be connected with things like
         | google now but it's limited to local physical gate device by
         | default). It's hard to actually buy all of these in one place,
         | you have to hunt.
        
           | MrGilbert wrote:
           | > Does US stores also have the ability to pick items up from
           | a warehouse next to their stores? Btw. how is this option
           | also a paid one is beyond me.
           | 
           | That's because every IKEA store is it's own warehouse.
           | Everything you can see is the stock. There is only a small
           | part where you can store stuff. So, instead of you running
           | around and picking stuff from the shelves, an employee has to
           | do it. It's basically a "convenience fee", because it's more
           | expensive for IKEA to collect it for you then you collecting
           | it. I'm not here to judge, though...
        
             | szszrk wrote:
             | You are right that it is work that needs to be done and
             | should be paid for, but some local companies offer
             | transport plus assembly in the price of IKEA transport
             | only.
             | 
             | Also in Poland availability is different when I try to buy
             | same thing online, check if it's present in local store, or
             | order the same item to be picked up by myself from
             | warehouse next to store.
             | 
             | It's even weirder! Sometimes I order things that are
             | "present in my local store" with transportation, but the
             | actual transportation is made from a central warehouse in
             | different part of the country. So IKEA's "availability" is
             | clearly a concept very different from what client might
             | think.
             | 
             | > So, instead of you running around and picking stuff from
             | the shelves, an employee has to do it.
             | 
             | Here warehouses are usually buildings next to the actual
             | store. So in either case employee has to pick it up from
             | warehouse, but with "pick up from warehouse yourself"
             | option they don't need to transport it to the store next
             | by. I still have to pay for that extra.
             | 
             | It's just weird.
        
               | l33tman wrote:
               | It's a bit complicated to compare the fees of a company
               | like IKEA to the fees of small local companies, in that
               | business sector I'm willing to guess there's a large
               | fraction of non-tax-paying companies with worker unions
               | non-existant etc.
               | 
               | IKEAs online experience is glossy but horribly non-
               | functional, agreed :/ Had that experience in Sweden as
               | well. There is simply no way to buy something which isn't
               | in stock in the local warehouse either, their support
               | actually told me to "try to buy it every day".
        
               | asdfaoeu wrote:
               | Maybe those other companies are just rolling the price
               | into the cost of the goods? I looked here at a competitor
               | and they were both charging AUD$69 for the delivery of a
               | sofa.
        
           | Spooky23 wrote:
           | Ikea stores are franchises. Part of their operating model is
           | that the store is the warehouse and the warehouse the store.
           | That makes online commerce challenging as there is always a
           | tension between the stakeholders who "owns" the sale.
           | 
           | I went to the Ikea in Brooklyn back in November... in that
           | store because of limited space they actually put up a tent in
           | the parking garage for fulfillment. It just worked awkwardly.
           | 
           | Other than that, the magic of a place like Ikea is they
           | source from a global market and make it magically appear. In
           | 2020/2021, the magic is broken because global supply chains
           | are broken. In my own business, I have about 18 people
           | working on sourcing various commodities, where as in 2019 we
           | had 4 doing the same job.
        
         | agumonkey wrote:
         | Maybe a large scale logistic issue ? just sayin, some bike
         | store had empty shelves due to border restrictions. Maybe IKEA
         | local store have long term inventory while the website relies
         | on far away central warehouse that was locked ?
        
       | rchaud wrote:
       | I'm honestly sad to hear this. The catalog had great style, and
       | the layouts and framing were gorgeous. For those who haven't seen
       | it, rest assured it was not a boring sales catalogue with tiny
       | product images jammed into every page.
       | 
       | It was something you could put down and pick up every once in a
       | while, and have new decor ideas. It had a curated feel, which is
       | another example of the human touch that will disappear with
       | algorithm-generated "inspo" layouts on Pinterest, or affiliate
       | link heavy blog posts from Apartment Therapy.
       | 
       | At least they plan on keeping an archive and having a compendium
       | available for purchase. I hope that doesn't turn out to be
       | vaporware.
        
         | Spivak wrote:
         | Yeah, I hope they at least keep the content alive since they
         | put a lot of effort into keeping up with interior decorating
         | trends. I would absolutely subscribe to a magazine assembled by
         | their group of editors.
        
         | gnopgnip wrote:
         | Hopefully the people that created this before can create a
         | digital first solution. Ikea notably was using 100% renders for
         | the products in the catalog, they could make that process
         | interactive
        
       | kwhitefoot wrote:
       | What am I going to use to light the fire with now?
        
       | timwaagh wrote:
       | I don't know everything but it seems IKEA has become less
       | relevant recently. Other stores often offer more options at a
       | more affordable pricetag. Like you can't get a bed in other than
       | standard sizes but Dutch people (and likely Swedes as well) have
       | become so tall that isn't always practical. So instead I bought
       | multiple beds at a local online only shop. They weren't much more
       | expensive.
        
         | agloeregrets wrote:
         | Ooh, this is what I found wrong with their sofas! I don't get
         | it, I'm around 6ft tall and their sofas are way too low.
        
       | DoctorBonkus wrote:
       | The article doesn't mention (or I didn't see it) how they will
       | show their new products to the costumers. How will they tell us?
       | The magasine was a big, bulky commercial that we happily
       | subscribed to. It must've been the cheapest ad that a company has
       | ever produced.
        
         | sverhagen wrote:
         | I remember in the Netherlands we were up in arms for ages about
         | still getting "useless" phone books and yellow pages, despite
         | putting the "no ads - no (free) magazines" stickers (which were
         | popular when I lived there). When I moved to the US, thankfully
         | no more phone books, but I felt very similar to the Ikea
         | magazine: a waste of paper, a burden to the environment, and I
         | don't understand why you think it would've been cheap? We shop
         | at Ikea all the time (barring pandemics), I'd see new stuff
         | _there_.
        
           | moooo99 wrote:
           | Having a bulky catalogue where your customers happily
           | subscribe to is certainly a cheaper form of advertising than
           | trying to invade their internet experience with products that
           | _might_ interest them. Its by no means a good way to acquire
           | new customers, but its /was certainly an effective and
           | comparatively cheap method to make your customers returning
           | customers.
           | 
           | Nowadays, there are Smartphone apps, membership programs,
           | extremely specific targeting options with online ads etc, all
           | of those methods are certainly a lot cheaper than printing an
           | delivering a bulky catalog.
           | 
           | That is, if you do not care about the environmental aspects.
        
             | sverhagen wrote:
             | Wait, hang on, aren't we talking about door-to-door
             | delivery? That's what I assumed it was. But sure, I
             | probably gave them my address...
        
         | [deleted]
        
       | implying wrote:
       | If you're feeling nostalgic, Archive.org does a great job
       | digitizing these, and they go back to 1950.
       | 
       | https://archive.org/details/ikea-catalogs/Ikea-1950
        
       | 99_00 wrote:
       | The article doesn't say why IKEA is ending the catalog.
       | 
       | This is the closest they come:
       | 
       | >Times change, however, and global companies hoping to stay
       | relevant have little choice but to change with them. To that end,
       | IKEA has announced that its catalog's glorious run will come to
       | an end, a decision the company arrived at within the past few
       | months.
        
       | treeman79 wrote:
       | Went through this at RadioShack back in 2000. Dropping the
       | catalog was a huge negative.
       | 
       | * online store made browsing a lot harder * employees used the
       | catalog constantly to look up requested items. * we would turn
       | away several people a day who came in asking for catalog. *
       | customers loved browsing the catalog * lots of older customers
       | that weren't ready to transition.
       | 
       | Part of it was that "kiosk" were crap.                 So
       | employees had a harder time looking items up.
        
         | jacquesm wrote:
         | And, that catalog also served as inspiration.
        
         | tzs wrote:
         | Speaking of RadioShack, here's a site [1] that has scans of the
         | catalogs from 1939-2011, include the retail catalogs, the
         | industrial catalogs, and the specialized catalogs.
         | 
         | [1] https://www.radioshackcatalogs.com/index.htm
        
       | taffronaut wrote:
       | Using the IKEA and Argos (RIP 2020) catalogues, my mum was still
       | able to browse for furniture and household stuff independently at
       | the age of 92. She doesn't have broadband or any digital device;
       | she's also deaf and doesn't have much manual dexterity. It now
       | adds shopping to the long list of interactions such as public
       | services, banking, healthcare, that she now has to do by proxy.
       | Print, post (and even payphones) provided universal access to
       | services for her generation where a one-off transaction cost
       | pennies and required no contract, no device, not even a bank
       | account (via postal order).
        
       | ngngngng wrote:
       | I am genuinely upset about this. I have such fond memories of
       | thumbing through endlessly as a teenager and dreaming of having
       | my own spaces that were so wonderfully busy and eclectic. My wife
       | and I were just at IKEA last week picking up a new bed for our
       | growing toddler, I glanced at the catalogs as we passed and
       | decided against picking one up. I hope I can still get my hands
       | on a couple old copies to keep on my bookshelf.
       | 
       | Edit: Just placed an order for the specific catalog year I have
       | so many memories of reading. One of my sillier purchases, but it
       | feels like a piece of personal history.
        
         | DonHopkins wrote:
         | I bet the cover and all the pages are shipped in a flat pack,
         | and you have to bind them yourself with the included binders
         | and binding tool.
        
           | Akronymus wrote:
           | The flat packages from ikea are so amazing to me. Pretty sure
           | no other furniture company has any that are nearly as
           | compact.
        
             | lupire wrote:
             | All low-end assemble-yourself furniture (like Office Depot)
             | is flat packed.
        
               | Akronymus wrote:
               | > like Office Depot
               | 
               | Which doesn't exist here. Guess I should've specified
               | austria before.
        
           | Cthulhu_ wrote:
           | Instructions unclear, every page is upside down!
        
           | scoopertrooper wrote:
           | That's just silly. You screw the pages into the spine with a
           | little allen key they give you.
        
             | DonHopkins wrote:
             | Hopefully they don't use VeloBind 11 prong binding strips,
             | but then only include 10 prongs.
             | 
             | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VeloBind
             | 
             | >It is possible to take a soft covered Velo-bound book,
             | remove the old binding and cover, and re-bind it with a
             | hard cover, which may be pre-embossed for more a more
             | impressive appearance. This rapid up-grade was the cause of
             | the short-lived motto "Soft to hard in 30 seconds!" That
             | was first done when the firm was located in Sunnyvale,
             | California.
        
             | JMTQp8lwXL wrote:
             | I went and bought one of these allen keys to disassemble a
             | well worn piece of Ikea furniture, only to unzip the back
             | of the chair during disassembly, to find the allen wrench.
             | 
             | Spent a good half hour looking for the manual online, only
             | to remember Ikea manuals are all pictures. I found the
             | manual and was reminded of this. About to give up, I took a
             | risk, and thankfully bought the right sized key. Allen
             | wrenches are made in both Imperial and Metric scales; Ikea,
             | being Swedish, meant correctly picking metric.
             | 
             | I later looked through the manual, and on the 2nd to last
             | page, it documented the correct key size.
        
         | retSava wrote:
         | > Edit: Just placed an order for the specific catalog year I
         | have so many memories of reading. One of my sillier purchases,
         | but it feels like a piece of personal history.
         | 
         | He. I had a bout where I spent waaaaay too much time and effort
         | hunting down the precise same variant of the Risk board game
         | that I had as a kid, only to not play it once since I got it.
         | The old edition I looked for had star-shaped playthings instead
         | of the symbolic cannons etc that are used now.
         | 
         | Now I just have to find Drakborgen (re-release of the 1985
         | edition kickstarter here, apparently :) : [0]) and Battle cars
         | [1].
         | 
         | [0] https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/fandrake/drakborgen
         | [1] https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/2368/battlecars
        
         | heterodyning wrote:
         | I am upset too
        
         | rospaya wrote:
         | I'm not anywhere near upset but I loved going through IKEA and
         | Sony catalogs in the 90s. It was aspirational since the nearest
         | IKEA was two countries away and represented something modern
         | and more progressive than the furniture we could buy. Most of
         | the Sony catalog was equipment I didn't need or could afford,
         | except Walkmans or various headphones.
         | 
         | It's just nostalgia and consumerism I guess.
        
         | paxys wrote:
         | Why are you upset with their decision if you yourself (a self
         | described fan of them) didn't bother to pick one up?
        
           | Dirlewanger wrote:
           | Seriously. Reminds me of those local news segments of old
           | restaurants closing down and everyone being interviewed are
           | sad and are reminiscing about when they used to go to it "as
           | a kid".
        
         | m463 wrote:
         | I think they're giving up the long game.
         | 
         | maybe kids now are doing it online?
        
           | Tomte wrote:
           | I am generally familiar with IKEA's offerings, but I have a
           | hard time finding anything in the app. On the web site it's
           | nearly impossible.
           | 
           | Unless you know the name, then search works (as long as
           | you're willing to scroll through 150 totally different items
           | with that name).
        
             | aequitas wrote:
             | I found for a lot of websites that Google image search
             | works a lot better and quicker to find what you are looking
             | for then the site's own search page.
        
               | kristofferR wrote:
               | Not for IKEA, they cancel products all the time.
               | Discovering an IKEA product you really want and then
               | discovering that it's not available anymore is a really
               | shitty feeling.
        
               | schrijver wrote:
               | Slightly shitty feeling? Anyway, the popularity of IKEA
               | makes it that you can search second hand websites by the
               | name of the furniture and have a decent chance of finding
               | it. Would be surprised though if IKEA has a higher
               | turnover of furniture models than other shops because
               | selling furniture depends on creating & following trends
               | & fashions and that's the same for any brand (although
               | some brands have their 'classics' that they keep selling
               | for a long long time, like IKEA does).
        
               | lupire wrote:
               | IKEA furniture falls apart if it is disassembled for
               | transport.
        
               | schrijver wrote:
               | Very little furniture is designed to be disassembled for
               | transport though. But you're right in the sense that the
               | flatpack format is pretty practical for transport and you
               | only get that when you buy new. Second hand is always a
               | bit more complicated for the human, even if better for
               | the planet.
        
             | kungito wrote:
             | All my local furniture shops, including Ikea, have
             | horrible, horrible experience. And it's the same for other
             | shops. It's practically impossible to know all of the
             | following:
             | 
             | * is everything in the picture included * what are all the
             | possible exterior dimensions of the product * what are the
             | specifications of the products down to all the
             | specifications which make you choose one product over
             | another
             | 
             | The saddest part is, lately it's been impossible to find
             | this data on the manufacturers website as well. Basic
             | things like how many nits does the TV have, how big does
             | the front panel need to be for the dishwasher etc.
        
           | agumonkey wrote:
           | I'd bet a few dollars that for kids this generation
           | everything virtual/AR is baseline.
        
             | darcien wrote:
             | Oh, that actually sounds like a cool idea for an AR app.
             | 
             | Imagine using AR to add furnitures to your current room
             | with furniture from a virtual catalogue. That way, you can
             | see how your room would look like instead of imagining it
             | inside your head.
             | 
             | And if IKEA were to do it, they can just add shopping
             | feature so the customer could purchase the furniture after
             | trying it out inside their own room. That totally sounds
             | like a killer app!
             | 
             | I wonder if there's anything like that already on the
             | market.
        
               | robin_reala wrote:
               | Geomagical are doing that: https://geomagical.com/
        
               | Tomte wrote:
               | > Imagine using AR to add furnitures to your current room
               | with furniture from a virtual catalogue. That way, you
               | can see how your room would look like instead of
               | imagining it inside your head.
               | 
               | It exists. The IKEA Smart app (from IKEA itself).
        
               | Clewza313 wrote:
               | IKEA has already built & launched that, it's called IKEA
               | Place: https://www.ikea.com/au/en/customer-
               | service/mobile-apps/say-...
               | 
               | iOS only though: https://apps.apple.com/us/app/ikea-
               | place/id1279244498
        
               | darcien wrote:
               | Wow, I didn't know that was a thing, thanks for sharing
               | it!
        
               | dagw wrote:
               | _Imagine using AR to add furnitures to your current room
               | with furniture from a virtual catalogue_
               | 
               | I don't know if they made it generally available, but I
               | know IKEA made a demo/beta app that did just that.
        
             | numpad0 wrote:
             | What I'd rather bet is that in-discoverability is lucrative
             | because it helps customers attach to products.
        
               | agumonkey wrote:
               | By in-discoverability you mean interacting with furniture
               | through phones ? Could be. The old catalog was a powerful
               | dream machine though.. now in terms of sales it might be
               | much. Time will tell.
        
             | 52-6F-62 wrote:
             | That was certainly the bet about a decade or two ago in
             | many industries.
             | 
             | Now, over the past 5 years or so we're seeing online tech
             | magazines move into print[0], record labels racing to get
             | back up to speed for vinyl printing[1], and "lo-fi" looks
             | and sounds and devices taking up a larger and larger space
             | in pop culture[2].
             | 
             | If anything, I get the sense that the younger generations
             | are seeing the value in attention and peace, and are moving
             | in directions that afford them more of that--or at least
             | control over that in their own lives and thoughts.
             | 
             | The general attitude, at least as far as I've discerned
             | from my own observations, has been that "everything has
             | it's optimal place" rather than adopting one tech to rule
             | them all.
             | 
             | [0] https://store.increment.com
             | 
             | [1] https://longlivevinyl.net/2018/07/30/pressing-concerns-
             | the-n...
             | 
             | [2] I don't have a nice summary for this one. It's just
             | everywhere I look.
             | 
             | As with most things, I gather humanity is continually
             | optimizing for itself. And what that looks like is what
             | most gamblers usually get wrong because our foresight is
             | often just that limited--especially when the result is
             | going _back_ to something most people thought we were done
             | with. We are just a bunch of monkeys acting strangely,
             | after all.
        
               | lupire wrote:
               | Retro always has a hipster niche. But it's not mainstream
               | majority.
        
               | agumonkey wrote:
               | I saw this a little ago and even though it's true that
               | old ways have value, even in smartphone AR/VR era, I also
               | have a feel that this revival was more or less a dead cat
               | bounce and not something that will grow much more. Kids
               | today live in the era of real time video + AR filters..
               | there's a chance that this represent their magic /
               | zeitgeist.
        
           | rchaud wrote:
           | IKEA's website is awful. Just as an example, here's something
           | that was happening for months, before they fixed it late last
           | year:
           | 
           | When you login, there are two types of accounts you can log
           | into. Ikea and Ikea Family. These are shown as tabs, and the
           | tab labels are faint. The login screen defaulted to the Ikea
           | Family, so my individual login never worked, again because
           | the labeling wasn't clear.
           | 
           | It wasn't until I was ready to reset my pw that I carefully
           | looked at every screen element and noticed the tabs.
        
         | kleiba wrote:
         | You just described the reason for IKEA's decision:
         | - "memories"        - "as a teenager"        - "decided against
         | picking one up"
        
           | GuB-42 wrote:
           | That should be the opposite.
           | 
           | GP has fond memories of a commercial brand, for a company,
           | that should be priceless. He even intend to keep a catalog on
           | his bookshelf, his kid will grow with an IKEA ad, for a
           | company, that should be priceless.
           | 
           | Except that there is no such thing as "priceless" for a
           | company. And they probably put a price tag on that, and
           | decided that the "childhood memories" value is not worth the
           | costs.
        
             | vidarh wrote:
             | What you describe might well be a good reason for them to
             | reprint a limited run of - maybe an older version - of the
             | catalogue and sell them as mementos or put scanned versions
             | online. E.g. old Argos catalogs are available here [1].
             | 
             | Not so much for continuing to print new ones.
             | 
             | [1] https://retromash.com/argos/
        
               | robin_reala wrote:
               | The scanned versions are online:
               | https://ikeamuseum.com/en/our-catalogues/
               | 
               | (the certificate has expired today; I'm trying to find
               | who to alert about that)
        
               | pessimizer wrote:
               | Also: https://archive.org/details/ikea-museum-
               | catalogues/IKEA%20Mu...
        
               | iso1631 wrote:
               | My kids (8 + 6) have poured through argos catalogues
               | their whole lives thinking about toys. Rather than using
               | that as a springboard into the app (quick QR code) where
               | you can then click and deliver with your sainsburys
               | order, Argos seems to be in a managed decline, getting
               | rid of everything that differentiates it from
               | competitors.
        
               | vidarh wrote:
               | Argos sales have been stable at around 4bn gbp a year in
               | recent years as far as I can tell, but finally reported
               | substantial growth after lockdown shifted most of their
               | sales online. I'm not convinced holding on to their
               | catalog as long as they did has done them any favours.
        
               | iso1631 wrote:
               | The growth seen in the area has gone almost entirely to
               | amazon
        
               | vidarh wrote:
               | The growth I referred to was _explicitly Argos_ , which
               | has seen consistent growth through all of 2020, with
               | Nov/Dec being 8% up year over year.
               | 
               | 8% isn't huge, but it contributed to the majority of
               | Sainsbury's overall growth in the period, and it's a
               | massive turnaround for Argos given it's revenues have
               | basically stayed about the same level for a decade.
        
               | iso1631 wrote:
               | Online sales as a percentage of all retail sales in the
               | UK have been steadily increasing by about 2pp per year
               | for the last decade until 2019 [0]
               | 
               | In 2020 this increased from 19% to 28%, from PS76b to
               | PS99b [1]
               | 
               | For Argos sales to only be up 8% in 2020, or PS320m,
               | isn't good, it took just 1.3% of the extra online sales.
               | Remember also that Argos (on the whole) remained open for
               | collection during the lockdowns inside of Sainsburys.
               | 
               | [0] https://www.ons.gov.uk/businessindustryandtrade/retai
               | lindust...
               | 
               | [1] https://www.statista.com/statistics/315506/online-
               | retail-sal...
        
         | 1234throwaway wrote:
         | your life experience is derived from a commercial furniture
         | shop that sells homogenous timber-plastic furniture. maybe you
         | should stop thinking about ikea
        
           | bloqs wrote:
           | Childhood memories are not dirtied by ideological or
           | poltitical bias. They are pure unadulterated observation. A
           | beautiful thing.
        
             | Andrex wrote:
             | Not necessarily worthy of reverence, though.
        
       | bluedino wrote:
       | I'm surprised at the amount of companies that still publish a
       | substantial catalog in 2021.
       | 
       | OWC/MacSales.com sends me one! I haven't bought any parts from
       | them in years. At least the aftermarket car parts places stop
       | sending you one after a few months of not buying anything.
        
         | eppp wrote:
         | You lose something when you dont have a catalog. I havent ever
         | seen a website that was good at showing you options. Sure I can
         | find whatever I am looking for specifically but I cant find
         | things that I dont even know exist and might work better unless
         | I happen to see someone write about it.
        
       | lifeisstillgood wrote:
       | Weirdly during the pandemic Ikea's shopping experience _improved_
       | for me - we ordered the desk online from home, I got a text
       | saying it woukd be ready, drove up, parked in large numbered bay
       | in their car park, texted back which bay I was in and a employee
       | trolleyed the whole lot over. I quite understand that they would
       | prefer I bought lunch for my kids and ten impulse purchases but
       | for me it was a surprising win.
       | 
       | If they shipped a paper catalogue and stuck to that model I can
       | imagine people really taking to it.
        
       | eplanit wrote:
       | Can we beg ULine to do the same? Order one item and you'll be
       | getting their wasted paper bricks every few weeks.
        
       | SEJeff wrote:
       | This is kind of sad actually. IKEA made one of the best Apple
       | trolls (literally) of all time with their "book book":
       | 
       | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MOXQo7nURs0
       | 
       | They made it as a parody in the style of an iPhone reveal
       | presentation from Steve Jobs.
        
       | jennasys wrote:
       | This just reminded me of the Horrorstor book I've had on my
       | reading list for a while now:
       | https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1594745269
        
       | wayanon wrote:
       | If the stories are true about Apple AR glasses I'd weirdly enjoy
       | a virtual stroll around IKEA from home.
        
       | minikites wrote:
       | Hacker News' priorities in a nutshell:
       | 
       | Archaic furniture catalog halts printing: "How sad! What a loss
       | to our culture!"
       | 
       | Technology displaces millions of jobs, leaving real people
       | destitute and without medical care: "That's just the free market,
       | suck it up, rube!"
        
       | rbobby wrote:
       | If they charged for it I wonder how many people would subscribe?
        
         | choward wrote:
         | Paying just for ads? No thanks.
        
       | tamaharbor wrote:
       | I haven't been this upset since Radio Shack discontinued its
       | yearly catalog.
        
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       (page generated 2021-02-17 21:01 UTC)