[HN Gopher] AirPods as a Platform
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AirPods as a Platform
Author : sc90
Score : 55 points
Date : 2021-02-16 18:11 UTC (4 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (julian.digital)
(TXT) w3m dump (julian.digital)
| jonbaer wrote:
| Has anyone actually TRIED using the AirPods in some form
| programmatically? It's impossible, you lock down your phone
| TouchID/FaceID and attempt to do a simple list by voice and "you
| need to unlock your Phone first" ... there is no trust in the
| pairing of hardware. I wanted to do a delivery platform based
| ONLY on the AirPods for all parties (pickup/dropoff/billing) but
| it's just not possible. I hope it changes in the future to
| reflect some of what is in this post.
| PurpleFoxy wrote:
| The Apple Watch is a lot better at this. It is considered
| trusted because it locks as soon as you take it off your arm
| nickelcitymario wrote:
| The article overlooks one of the major reasons for wanting a non-
| voice interface to an audio experience: Being quiet.
|
| Most of the time, if I'm wearing headphones, it's so as to not
| disturb others around me. Otherwise I'd play it out loud.
|
| This benefit goes away when everyone around me suddenly hears me
| bark out loud to adjust the volume, or send a text, or what-have-
| you.
|
| I'm a big believer in audio-as-a-platform (particularly the AR
| possibilities), but I _hate_ audibly trying to speak to a
| computer. It 's by far the worst input interface.
|
| (On the other hand, much like cameras, the best interface is the
| one you have with you. I yell at my Google speakers all the damn
| time, because my hands are busy around the house. But those are
| also speakers, not headphones, and therefor a different use
| case.)
| lambda_dn wrote:
| I agree, but don't throw the baby out. One of the most useful
| uses of voice I've found is using a Fire stick with Alexa. Just
| press the mic button on the remote and say a actor/movie/tv
| series and it presents everything it finds from all your
| subscriptions. It's rare it doesn't understand and as a
| Glaswegian that's impressive.
| whimsicalism wrote:
| I wonder if we'll ever get technology that can interpret very,
| very quiet vocalizations, almost a subvocalization.
|
| That would definitely be something I would buy on to.
| mmorris wrote:
| There's been a fair amount of research into this, eg:
| https://news.mit.edu/2018/computer-system-transcribes-
| words-...
| cma wrote:
| > Most of the time, if I'm wearing headphones, it's so as to
| not disturb others around me. Otherwise I'd play it out loud.
|
| Maybe that's the key to its network effect as a platform. If
| you don't want to hear everyone talking to themselves in the
| library, you'll need noise canceling headphones too.
| ch4s3 wrote:
| Noise canceling headphones don't seem to do much for people
| talking in the background, or really any sudden loud noise.
| r00fus wrote:
| In science fiction, the step before mind-machine interface is
| sub-vocalization. What would it take to allow an interface
| device to be able to hear you but others not?
| mmorris wrote:
| I think sub-vocalization-driven interfaces could be amazing,
| I was super excited when I saw this research (posted it
| elsewhere in this thread too):
| https://news.mit.edu/2018/computer-system-transcribes-
| words-...
| bogwog wrote:
| So far the only thing I find myself using voice commands for is
| to set alarms on my iPhone. Saying "Hey Siri, set an alarm for
| 15 minutes" is so much easier than doing it manually through
| the clock app.
|
| Other than that though, I haven't found any practical use for
| them. Maybe once AI improves a lot, and it feels like you're
| talking to an actual person, it might be more useful.
| corobo wrote:
| I find myself setting alarms too.. the problem is I'm trying
| to set timers haha
|
| "timer 1 hour 30" is parsed into "Make an alarm at 01:30
| named Timer."
|
| Every time I do laundry I get woken up at stupid o'clock the
| next morning haha.
|
| Edit: Sorry to those below for the confusion I seeded. To
| clarify I mean the 1 hour 30 is the bit that doesn't work. If
| I add minutes to the end of it it works perfectly fine.
| hackmiester wrote:
| I definitely recommend just saying a sentence. The system
| isn't designed to understand requests the way you're
| presenting them.
| corobo wrote:
| I'm not going to try changing my behaviour for a voice
| assistant lmao. It works or it doesn't.
|
| That's how I talk. Thats how I've talked for
| 32-$childhood years.
| hackmiester wrote:
| But you are changing your behavior. If you told a human
| "timer 1 hour 30" they'd look at you very strangely. My
| suggestion is to _stop_ using special phrasings for voice
| assistants.
| corobo wrote:
| If I told a human to set me a timer they'd look at me
| strangely anyway. I want quick, done, command, action. It
| is a computer.
|
| I'm not having a conversation with the thing, I want it
| do do something. Command, parameters.
| yepthatsreality wrote:
| This is hilarious considering the etymology of the term
| "computer". The first computers were people who performed
| computations. Computers as you're using it, is a Digital
| Computer.
| wlesieutre wrote:
| I told bash computer, list the invisible
| files in my home folder
|
| but in a shocking turn of events, when you use it wrong
| it doesn't work
| corobo wrote:
| Come off it. If I say "timer 1 hour 30 _minutes_ " it
| works fine. It's the British way of giving duration that
| doesn't work.
|
| In what world does "timer one hour 30" parse into "Set an
| alarm for 1:30am and call it timer"
|
| Presumably if a French person had trouble you'd tell them
| to just speak English?
| wlesieutre wrote:
| Oh sorry, I thought your complaint was about having to
| phrase things as sentences. Yeah, Siri is pretty stupid
| about inferring that the number after hours is minutes.
|
| Parsing time related stuff in general seems to be an
| issue. "Set a timer for a minute fifteen" makes an alarm
| named "Timer" set for 3 PM.
|
| But if you say "Set a timer for a minute fifteen seconds"
| it works fine.
|
| Curious if anyone else can duplicate the "a minute
| fifteen == 3 o'clock" issue or if it's somehow hearing me
| wrong.
| smaccona wrote:
| I used your exact wording and it did exactly what you
| said: created an alarm named "Timer" set for 3PM. I also
| did it with Siri's language set to "English (United
| Kingdom)" and "English (Ireland)" and it still did the
| same thing, so this idiosyncrasy appears to be
| independent of which language Siri is set to (at least
| within the set of varieties of English it supports).
| bengale wrote:
| I use it for that and home control stuff mainly. Turn off the
| heater, turn on the lights, etc. Sometimes I'll set a
| reminder.
| jeffwass wrote:
| I have a HomePod in the kitchen and use Siri for two main
| things :
|
| 1. Hey Siri, add Olive Oil to the grocery list. Super easy.
| When I'm cooking and running low on something, no need to
| break my stride and pull out my phone, or clean my hands.
| It's immediately into my grocery list and out of my mental
| inbox.
|
| 2. Hey Siri, play some Jazz. Or whatever music. This is nice
| and easy to get some music on the HomePod for either cooking,
| working, or dinner background. The only annoyance is that
| Siri can be super particular at times unlike when searching
| Apple Music on my phone. Also sometimes my kids hijack my
| music selection with their own, hehe.
| kitsunesoba wrote:
| Similarly the only use Siri gets on the kitchen HomePod is
| for hands-free timers while cooking.
|
| In my eyes the primary thing that's standing in the way of
| voice assistants being useful isn't even as high of a bar as
| general AI, but just the ability to parse a command into
| multiple, potentially chained commands. Even with the
| inability to figure out things like context that would boost
| usability a lot -- for example, it'd allow commands like,
| "set timers for 5 minutes, 10 minutes, and an hour" instead
| of having to make each request separately.
| mmorris wrote:
| Chaining works on Google Home (and, I believe, Alexa?). I
| use it all the time, e.g., "Cancel the 5 minute timer and
| set a timer for 6 minutes" or your example of setting
| multiple timers.
| spike021 wrote:
| >Similarly the only use Siri gets on the kitchen HomePod is
| for hands-free timers while cooking.
|
| Same here. Just wish it could handle setting multiple
| timers (yes I realize you can set multiple alarms, but
| those aren't one-time use).
| jldugger wrote:
| Homepod can set multiple timers now, just not in a single
| utterance.
| 0xCMP wrote:
| The first one to support a "conversation" even if with same
| level of intelligence and understanding today will be a
| MASSIVE improvement. If it would listen while talking so
| you can interrupt it. Would be so much more useful.
| wincy wrote:
| Alexa will shut up immediately if you say "Alexa shut up"
| or "Alexa SILENCE" when she's talking. We got an echo dot
| which came with our Alexa enabled microwave, and now that
| I have it set up to stream Apple Music, we use it all the
| time. Our thermostat also has it although when we change
| the temperature she'll sometimes inexplicably change the
| house temp to 60degF which we won't realize until 3am
| when we're freezing in bed.
| SecurityLagoon wrote:
| Wait... Alexa enabled microwave? I am genuinely
| interested in what the point of that is.
| Zhenya wrote:
| To sell more microwaves!!!!
|
| /S
| graeme wrote:
| I have a couple other small ones:
|
| * Hey siri what's the weather
|
| * Hey siri add broccoli to my grocery list
|
| * Hey siri remind me when I get home to take out the
| recycling
|
| Same principle. Simple request, hard to get wrong, low
| stakes, faster than clicking
| airstrike wrote:
| "Hey siri, lights off" is amazing if you have smart lamp
| mikewhy wrote:
| I'm also a fan of "hey siri, turn off the tv" when leaving.
|
| I have huge gripes with "what's the weather". Siri will for
| sure say the temperature, which means nothing in a city
| where the windchill is often ten degrees lower.
| jfengel wrote:
| Especially the shopping list. I most often notice that I
| need something when I'm in the middle of using the last of
| it, which means my hands are full and often dirty or wet.
| But I also don't want to put it off because it's something
| I do need to do.
| siquick wrote:
| >* Hey siri add broccoli to my grocery list
|
| Are you using a specific app for this or is it just a list
| in Notes called 'grocery list'?
| greedo wrote:
| It's under Reminders. If you don't have a list named
| Grocery, it'll create it and populate it with broccoli.
| andykellr wrote:
| Also,
|
| * Hey siri remind me every other Tuesday at 8pm when I'm at
| home to take out the recycling
|
| Some things are more easy to say than to configure with 20+
| taps on the Reminders app.
| anonymouse008 wrote:
| Curious -- is the use case mostly cooking? Or is it prep for
| X mins before Zoom calls?
| Hamuko wrote:
| I use timers for making tea, cooking and knowing when my
| car has finished heating up.
|
| Unfortunately iOS only supports one timer at a time so I
| can't make tea while my car is plugged in.
| kemayo wrote:
| Weirdly, HomePods do support multiple (optionally named)
| timers. Since they're also based on the general iOS
| family, there's a bit of hope for the feature eventually
| making its way to the phones. I'd assume it's held up on
| them having to redo the UI, if anything.
| e40 wrote:
| Agreed. Lately I've been asking Siri how to spell words (not
| that I'm worse recently, I just found it that worked). Much
| easier than the alternative.
| kemayo wrote:
| Shopping list while I'm cooking. "Hey Siri, add tomatoes to
| my shopping list".
|
| (And then said list is shared with my family.)
| elicash wrote:
| The thing he wants a hardware button for is probably only used by
| .01% of users.
|
| Edit: Removed the points that he already addressed after seeing
| comments below.
| macintux wrote:
| His footnotes begin with:
|
| > The input mechanism I describe doesn't have to be a physical
| button. In fact, gesture-based inputs might be even more
| convenient. If AirPods had built-in accelerometers, users could
| interact with audio content by nodding or shaking their heads.
| Radar-based sensors like Google's Motion Sense could also
| create an interesting new interaction language for audio
| content.
| macintux wrote:
| ...and the 2nd one:
|
| > You could also think about the Apple Watch as the main
| input device. In contrast to the AirPods, Apple opened the
| Watch for developers from the start, but it hasn't really
| seen much success as a platform. Perhaps a combination of
| Watch and AirPods has a better chance of creating an
| ecosystem with its own unique applications?
| TheRealSteel wrote:
| All AirPods actually do contain an accelerometer, and the Pro
| contain a gyroscope as well, however I'm not aware of them
| being opened to developers, so they're still not of use to
| anything unless Apple decides to open them up or implement
| the feature themselves.
| corobo wrote:
| I'd be happy with being able to program in triple tap actions as
| well as the double tap.
|
| Two commands (and that's if you've even got both in) is not
| enough!
| redisman wrote:
| Eh I think that interface stinks. It's just physically very
| uncomfortable to tap on the headphones in your ear because of
| the loud noise and the headphone pressing deeper into your ear.
| I have a knockoff bluetooth "Pods" and I absolutely hate the
| triple tap.
| PurpleFoxy wrote:
| A trick I found out is you can tap on the back of your ear
| and it also triggers the tap action without banging the thing
| in to your ear.
| lambda_dn wrote:
| Could it it detect different kinds of ear pressures, you could
| control it that way using your air passages. Two big sniffs to
| skip a song.
|
| Copyrighting this right here btw.
|
| I'll take 10% of all future sales please.
| corobo wrote:
| If you're taking the piss I don't know where I've tripped up
| from your comment. Is there something infeasible about triple
| taps? If you jailbreak you can do it..
| lambda_dn wrote:
| No I'm serious, wasn't reflecting on your comment. Im not a
| doctor so not sure if air pressure in the ear canal could
| be detected and how much a human can control it. But it
| would be easier than voice or touch from the users point of
| view.
| corobo wrote:
| Apologies. Wound too tight today.
| idolaspecus wrote:
| I agree with the author about the potential of audio interfaces +
| some simple additional inputs + integration with certain apps.
|
| For me personally there is a suite of tools involving audio books
| and note taking that would change my life: A remote with a few
| physical buttons to rewind, switch to record-mode, skip sections.
| Speech to text with full text search. Voice recordings tied to
| what I'm listening to. Basically, I want to be able to work
| through a difficult audiobook while walking around.
| avipars wrote:
| hug of death, can't load the site
| function_seven wrote:
| This is what I want:
|
| When golfing, I want to keep track of how far I hit the ball, the
| club I used, and where I landed. There are apps for this, of
| course, but I can't use them. By the time I've arrived at my
| ball, I'm not going to stop, take out my phone, and start fidling
| with UI controls to select a club or confirm a location.
|
| I would love to have an app that let me keep one AirPod in my
| ear, and allow me to track my golf game. The UX would be
| something like this:
|
| 1. Arrive at course, and use phone to select the tees and confirm
| the course I'm playing. Start the round.
|
| 2. Tap my AirPod and say, "Teeing off on hole 1 using driver"
|
| 3. Hit the ball
|
| 4. When I arrive at my ball, tap again and say, "hitting seven
| iron"
|
| 5. When I sink a putt, tap and say, "next hole".
|
| From just those interactions, the app could keep track of every
| shot, and also keep my score and number of putts. I could choose
| to not announce each and every shot if I wanted to, and instead
| say, "add three strokes" once I'm done with the hole.
|
| I could also ask, "How far to the middle of the green?" and get a
| distance in my ear. "What did I hit last time on this hole, for
| this shot?" (Answer: "You used a nine iron, and hit it 107
| yards")
|
| All that would be killer for me. Nicer than staring at my phone
| screen in the sunlight, and looking like I'm farting around to
| the players waiting for me to clear the fairway.
|
| Anything like this exist today?
| jareklupinski wrote:
| that sounds like a fun product to work on! it seems there are
| some apple watch golf apps already
| https://www.golfpass.com/travel-advisor/articles/apple-watch...
| and some apps specifically mention leaving your phone in your
| cart and using bluetooth audio queues
| https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.freecaddie...
| but none that specifically use bluetooth audio / cues as the
| main input method?
| seltzered_ wrote:
| "The most obvious choice here is Siri, which is already
| integrated into every pair of AirPods."
|
| - Not entirely true. It's the pairing of the device with an iOS
| or capable watchOS device.
|
| "Why has no one thought about additional buttons or click
| mechanisms that allow users to interact with the actual content?"
|
| - It's called a smartwatch (The pebble was really nice at this).
| or generically bluetooth radio controls.
|
| I wish these design analyses talked about the material input
| costs needed to produce the thing we might perceive as a
| 'platform'. I just see more batteries, wear, expense, etc.
| meagher wrote:
| Pro tip: You can shorten voice commands for Siri, Alexa, et al.
|
| "Hey Siri, what's the weather today?" ==> "Hey Siri, weather"
|
| "Hey Siri, set a timer for 10 minutes" ==> "Hey Siri, 10 minute
| timer"
| dweekly wrote:
| Author's site appears to be slow/unresponsive; cached copy is at
| http://web.archive.org/web/20210216181726/https://julian.dig...
| rado wrote:
| It makes sense considering Apple is all about diminishing
| physical technology (iMac: the screen is the computer). AirPods,
| Watch or something else as tiny or completely invisible will be
| the next platform, once they solve the performance and UI
| problem, which they will.
| Closi wrote:
| I actually think Apple is about integrating different hardware
| to create unique interface experiences which are cross-device.
| I suspect it's not going to be 'one technology' any time soon,
| it's going to be lots of devices working together seamlessly.
|
| For example, if I am playing music on my Airpods from my iPhone
| and my phone is in my pocket, turning the crown on my apple
| watch is a really neat and intuitive way to change the volume.
| The first time I did it and it worked it felt like magic.
|
| Similarly walking down a street and getting audio directions on
| AirPods almost works - but if that's combined with a small map
| on my watch it works much better - better than a phone.
|
| But at the same time, neither a watch or Airpods are going to
| be the right way to send a private text message on a quiet bus,
| and because a giant new unifying technology isn't with us yet,
| I suspect a hybrid approach is going to be with us for a while.
| nickelcitymario wrote:
| > Apple is all about diminishing physical technology
|
| That's an interesting perspective. Theoretically, the best way
| to get rid of hardware is to move as much as possible to "the
| cloud"[1], yet Apple isn't very good at cloud. (At least, not
| as good as Google and Amazon.)
|
| So let's say we're headed to a future where the only physical
| electronics anyone owns are wearables: watch, glasses, ear
| buds. No phones, tablets, laptops, or desktops. Just wearables.
|
| In that scenario, who wins? Apple is best suited for making
| that hardware (by a long mile), but Google and/or Amazon are
| better suited for handling the software in the cloud.
|
| I'd place my bets on Apple catching up on cloud faster than
| Google or Amazon catching up on hardware.
|
| However, if we took it a step further and went full Mana[2],
| tapping right into the nervous system, my bet would be on
| Google winning that one. They have the cloud capabilities and
| expertise, but Alphabet also has some experience in health and
| biology (if I'm not mistaken).
|
| --
|
| [1] I know, I know. "Cloud" is just someone else's computer.
| It's also more than that.
|
| [2] https://marshallbrain.com/manna1
| reaperducer wrote:
| _> Apple is all about diminishing physical technology
|
| That's an interesting perspective_
|
| It's Steve Jobs' perspective. He talked repeatedly about
| technology disappearing into the background, and one day we
| would have technology so good that we wouldn't even see it.
| It would disappear into the walls.
|
| To me, it's the ultimate expression of making computers work
| for us, not the other way around, which is mostly what we
| have now.
| nickelcitymario wrote:
| I hadn't heard that, so I may be late to the party on this
| perspective.
| dghlsakjg wrote:
| I think apple is very good at cloud. They don't sell cloud
| services so comparisons to GCP or AWS is unfair, but their
| cloud integrations are pretty top notch from my perspective.
| My phone backs up automatically. My photos are available on
| all devices with the swipe of a single slider. iCloud is so
| tightly integrated with their products that a lot of people
| don't even know they are using it. I think that's a pretty
| good implementation of cloud.
| nickelcitymario wrote:
| I'm not saying Apple is bad at cloud, per say. (Although I
| think there's an argument to be made there.)
|
| Rather, I'm saying they're nowhere near as good at it as
| Amazon or Google, and I anticipate that this gap is only
| going to grow.
| haroldkurac wrote:
| Not that patents are predictive of what will actually make it
| into the product, but Apple does have at least a few covering
| hand gesture and other inputs to AirPods:
|
| https://patents.google.com/patent/US10757491
|
| https://patents.google.com/patent/US10873798
| joejohnson wrote:
| That was a lot of words to say "what if the AirPods had a
| programmable button so apps could favorite songs or add a
| bookmark?"
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(page generated 2021-02-16 23:00 UTC)