[HN Gopher] Pine64 Februrary Update: Show and Tell
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Pine64 Februrary Update: Show and Tell
        
       Author : bauen1
       Score  : 172 points
       Date   : 2021-02-15 16:14 UTC (6 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.pine64.org)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.pine64.org)
        
       | swiley wrote:
       | I'm thoroughly convinced companies like Pine64 are going to
       | completely displace Google (and perhaps even Apple) because they
       | work with rather than against the developer community. I've owned
       | a pinephone since the early fall of last year and have had to
       | hack around and generally put up with bugs just to do normal
       | stuff, but at this point everything needed to use it as a PDA
       | works well and the modem related issues are being solved very
       | quickly. It probably won't be long before the phone will be the
       | more sensible alternative to an android.
        
         | Mediterraneo10 wrote:
         | People today expect more from their phones than just basic PDA
         | functionality. They want to consume lots of media on the phone,
         | and sometimes even produce it. The Allwinner A64 CPU in the
         | PinePhone is antiquated and underpowered compared to any
         | midrange Android phone today, making it barely possible to even
         | browse the modern web. Today many smartphones are popular
         | precisely due to their camera, but the PinePhone's is low-
         | quality and even with some software tweaks will remain that way
         | forever. So, the PinePhone attracts its niche audience of
         | technies like us, but forget about mass adoption.
         | 
         | Reports on the PinePhone forum suggest it'll be 4-5 years
         | before the next PinePhone with a better chip comes along (and
         | by then, even that chip may seem old), so don't expect this
         | situation to change anytime soon.
         | 
         | Vanilla Linux on the PinePhone is also missing numerous battery
         | optimizations found on Android that would give people the
         | battery life they expect today.
        
         | tw04 wrote:
         | >I'm thoroughly convinced companies like Pine64 are going to
         | completely displace Google (and perhaps even Apple) because
         | they work with rather than against the developer community.
         | 
         | I applaud your enthusiasm but there's no planet on which Pine64
         | replaces Google or Apple. Unless they somehow convince the
         | likes of someone like Samsung to make the switch, their market
         | share will be measured in basis points.
         | 
         | The average consumer doesn't care at all how Google and Apple
         | treat developers. And the average developer is going to go to
         | the place they make money, even if it's more painful to do
         | business with those giants.
        
           | cogman10 wrote:
           | Microsoft leaving the phone market is where I'd point. They
           | were also very developer friendly but far too late to the
           | market.
           | 
           | I don't even think Samsung can get away from android. They
           | are trying with tizen but the ecosystem is hard to escape.
        
             | benjohnson wrote:
             | It was my understanding that Microsoft pulled the rug out
             | from developers multiple times by making new OS versions
             | not quite backwards compatible.
        
               | Snitch-Thursday wrote:
               | iirc the extreme TL;DR of that was this:
               | 
               | rewrite your windows mobile 5/6 apps for windows phone 7?
               | ok, its a brand new platform, i get it.
               | 
               | rewrite wp 7 for windows phone 8? ok... (there may have
               | been wp7 mango that needed tweaks but my memory is too
               | fuzzy)
               | 
               | rewrite windows phone 8 for 8.1 ? cmon now
               | 
               | rewrite windows phone 8.1 for wm 10? no
        
           | swiley wrote:
           | They don't care who makes the phone but they do care:
           | 
           | 1) about the phone not shipping with malware
           | 
           | 2) about the phone not working after 2 years
           | 
           | 3) apps no longer working because the only OS vendor for your
           | phone disagrees about something with the developer
           | 
           | As for what developers care about: commercial devs will avoid
           | the pinephone and IMO that's a good thing.
        
             | macksd wrote:
             | They care, but not enough to slightly inconvenience
             | themselves when shopping for a new contract. I have a lot
             | of family that come to me for IT / device help and I make a
             | big deal out of all these issues to them. I can't say I've
             | ever had one do anything other than go ask the Verizon
             | store (or equivalent) for the latest iPhone or Galaxy the
             | minute their old one is paid off. The one exception is the
             | relative who will buy whatever the absolute cheapest, most
             | heavily subsidized device is. I don't see him buying a Pine
             | either.
        
             | tw04 wrote:
             | >1) about the phone not shipping with malware
             | 
             | Given the number of people who have no issues installing
             | Zoom or TikTok, I'm not sure I buy that.
             | 
             | >2) about the phone not working after 2 years
             | 
             | The average consumer has to have the latest and greatest
             | every 2 years whether the old phone still works or not.
             | 
             | >3) apps no longer working because the only OS vendor for
             | your phone disagrees about something with the developer
             | 
             | The number of parler users willing to give up their iPhone
             | for parler isn't even a blip on the radar. They won't even
             | switch to android for it, why do you think they'd switch to
             | Pine?
        
               | war1025 wrote:
               | > The average consumer has to have the latest and
               | greatest every 2 years whether the old phone still works
               | or not.
               | 
               | My experience is that my older relatives get new phones
               | frequently because they get their old ones so malware
               | laden that they no longer function correctly.
               | 
               | That and apps grind to a halt because the developers use
               | top of the line hardware and don't notice how wasteful of
               | resources they are being.
        
               | homarp wrote:
               | but your older relative also expects:
               | 
               | a) the bank app to install
               | 
               | b) the whatsapp or whatever "everyone my age uses that"
               | they are using to install
               | 
               | c) candycrush or whatever is the trendy game of the
               | moment to install
               | 
               | d) Netflix/Disney+/... app to install
               | 
               | I really doubt these will ever be ported to PinePhone.
               | And then, if they were, I am sure malware would also be
               | ported, so back to square one.
        
       | foolmeonce wrote:
       | I'm very interested in the possibility of reusing eink screens
       | from old ereaders on the Quartz64?
       | 
       | It seems like there is only the one brand, but probably there are
       | generations of EDP ports or flavors relating to maximum size,
       | color/gray-scale Levels, etc?
        
         | MayeulC wrote:
         | I know nothing about this; is the connector and protocol
         | standard and common to all eink devices?
        
           | foolmeonce wrote:
           | All I've found is SoC makers have their own driver, but refer
           | to the interface in terms of max resolutions, etc.
           | 
           | I hope it is very similar to the situation with HDMI, where
           | the interface doesn't vary, but alternatively, it could be a
           | matter of proprietary things not being discussed clearly
           | because of NDAs, etc.
        
       | Abishek_Muthian wrote:
       | Pine64 should start taking in resellers and build robust
       | relationship with them in the footsteps of Raspberry Pi
       | Foundation to have chance at mass adoption.
       | 
       | Since almost almost every country have their own rules &
       | compliance regarding tele-communication/radio hardware Pine64
       | products with them are plagued with shipping issues if not
       | straight away ban on them. Resellers have the means to get them
       | resolved.
       | 
       | I don't think selling their products only through their website
       | is doing justice for their goals albeit better markup on
       | relatively inexpensive devices. Raspberry Pi Foundation's ability
       | to ship products to over 50 countries through their resellers _on
       | the day_ of announcement is underrated.
        
         | nrp wrote:
         | Pine64 announced last year that they will be doing exactly
         | that: https://www.pine64.org/2020/12/02/pine-store-community-
         | prici...
        
       | IgorPartola wrote:
       | I am curious if a Pine64 board can be used as a pfsense router
       | for home office use. Their hardware looks really neat.
        
         | CameronNemo wrote:
         | There are two issues I can see:
         | 
         | * support for openbsd or freebsd (I forget which pfsense uses)
         | and in particular an image for pfsense that supports the
         | hardware
         | 
         | * if you need two NICs, you will have to use the rockpro64 with
         | a PCIe card or maybe a USB3 based adapter
        
         | ac29 wrote:
         | The community version of pfsense doesnt support ARM.
        
       | syntaxing wrote:
       | Super fun to read these updates. Whenever I read about their
       | update, its kind of bittersweet because this is exactly what I
       | expected of the Ubuntu phone that Canonical killed prematurely.
        
         | fartcannon wrote:
         | The posts are delightful. Feels like Christmas every time.
         | 
         | As a form of advertising, these posts are spectacular. I find
         | myself just buying everything they make. It feels so genuine.
         | 
         | The marketers on this forum can learn from these guys.
         | Frequent, jargon-free technically inspiring posts make me spend
         | money.
        
           | yjftsjthsd-h wrote:
           | > The marketers on this forum can learn from these guys.
           | Frequent, jargon-free technically inspiring posts make me
           | spend money.
           | 
           | And, y'know, actually selling stuff that people want. For me,
           | at least, it's the specific combination of "blog post talking
           | about this neat new thing _that I want to buy_ ". Which,
           | granted, is true of nearly everything that Pine sells:)
        
           | mehdix wrote:
           | To be honest, I have pinned some pine store links and refresh
           | them everyday to buy as soon as there is new stock! I'm
           | happily using Pinebook Pro as my portable device and have
           | Pinephone with PostmarketOS which with everything working.
           | Fantastic!
        
       | slezyr wrote:
       | I think that all these small factor laptops should just use JJ50
       | layout[1] for the keyboard. It makes no sense to arrange them
       | into old QWERTY-style, you can't use it comfortably anyway.
       | 
       | 1: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32957204924.html
        
         | meowster wrote:
         | I'm not opposed to using a standard that's somewhat different,
         | but I need an enter/return key.
        
         | MayeulC wrote:
         | I tried to raise awareness of this multiple times, in the
         | forums, on their website, on the chat. I either had crickets or
         | answers that fel strongly opposed to changing anything with
         | their layout.
         | 
         | Anyway, I feel like an ortholinear keyboard woukd be better,
         | maybe with an enter key in the middle to space hands more, like
         | I wrote in the past:
         | https://forum.pine64.org/showthread.php?tid=10885&pid=86112#...
         | 
         | I might try to print an alternate case and PCB. A forum post
         | mentions joycons, joycon grooves could be a fun addition :P
        
       | canada_dry wrote:
       | I can't get over how professional, thorough and measured Pine64's
       | updates are (compared to the typical overblown/stretched
       | promises).
        
         | ipnon wrote:
         | I suspect being "on the ground" in Southern China as opposed to
         | "in the clouds" in Silicon Valley helps.
        
       | ThenAsNow wrote:
       | This team is doing "the lord's work". Anyone thinking you can use
       | a "de-Googled" Android distribution, like GrapheneOS, CalyxOS, or
       | LineageOS and actually be de-Googled in anything but the most
       | superficial way (as I once thought possible) should actually grab
       | the sources and examine them.
       | 
       | Android is written with deep and casual connections to Google's
       | systems all throughout the codebase. It's like a cockroach
       | infestation. There's no concept of anyone potentially not wanting
       | to connect to their services regardless of how trivial the "value
       | add". It will take dozens of patches to cut these out, often
       | breaking functionality. To be fair, I haven't looked at /e/
       | sources to see if they've done all this, but I would be surprised
       | if they got all of them. Then of course, the patches need to be
       | maintained and new ones written as Google continues to
       | relentlessly add more integration points with their servers in
       | subsequent Android updates.
       | 
       | Just to name a few: SUPL, WebRTC probing, automatic previews of
       | YouTube in the Messenger, Google maps lookups in Dialer and in
       | Photos, myriad connectivity checks, etc. And this doesn't even
       | consider the unending whack-a-mole that gets played for Chromium
       | privacy by projects like Bromite and un-Googled Chromium.
       | 
       | After going down this rabbit hole, it became clear to me the only
       | way to win is to not play. If the Pine64 ecosystem gets to the
       | point of working as well as the Linux desktop (been daily driving
       | some KDE on top of GNU/Linux for 10+ years, with only one major
       | issue due to buggy drivers), it will be one of the very few ways
       | to ensure your phone is not making unwanted data transfers to
       | Apple and Google's servers.
        
         | londons_explore wrote:
         | Removing them all is a simple matter of blocking DNS lookups
         | for Google DNS addresses. There are only ~10 hostnames to
         | block.
         | 
         | Sure, some features will break, but it won't be any worse than
         | being disconnected from the internet.
        
           | hobofan wrote:
           | Ah yes, the smartphone, the invention that isn't basically
           | entirely based around the concept of being connected to the
           | internet.
        
           | ThenAsNow wrote:
           | This would take out a certain number of them, but there are
           | hardcoded IP references ( _e.g._ , to their DNS servers), use
           | of Google systems for things like NTP, and so on. These are
           | findable and patchable, but you will still be building your
           | own image to maintain as most of these are not exposed as
           | knobs in the Android UI. And of course still no answer for
           | SUPL. Going transiently without an internet connection is
           | common, but going semi-permanently without one is not what
           | these systems are designed to do well.
           | 
           | Also, is this list of ~10 hostnames readily available
           | somewhere?
        
           | ocdtrekkie wrote:
           | Google has a solution for this. By using DNS-over-HTTPS,
           | Google can start deploying software that communicates solely
           | with it's own DNS servers over encrypted connections.
        
             | teekert wrote:
             | I don't know why you are down voted but this is exactly why
             | pihole and adguard have no effect on many devices.
        
           | teddyh wrote:
           | DNS blocking will very soon, if not already, cease to work,
           | with the arrival of DoH.
        
         | zozbot234 wrote:
         | > Android is written with deep and casual connections to
         | Google's systems all throughout the codebase. It's like a
         | cockroach infestation. There's no concept of anyone potentially
         | not wanting to connect to their services regardless of how
         | trivial the "value add".
         | 
         | Par for the course in embedded development. Tuere are plenty of
         | bad things to be said about AOSP, but it's still _way_ better
         | than any of its Linux-based forerunners. Remember the OpenMoko?
         | 
         | (Of course, this is not to say that further improvement is not
         | possible! So, I might well agree with the gist of your comment
         | from that POV.)
        
         | bisby wrote:
         | There are many apps which are very sad when you use the F-Droid
         | version vs the Play store version. Namely push notifications,
         | or in some cases, mere existence. Element.io app for a while
         | there (at least when it was riot.im) was using polling to check
         | for new messages instead of push notifications. Because no
         | google means no google cloud messaging (or firebase, or
         | whatever it is now).
         | 
         | Home Assistant is great and open source, but they refuse to
         | publish to F-Droid over a name dispute from years ago (someone
         | had an unofficial app and had refused to relinquish the name
         | and F-Droid let the unofficial app keep it). Which means if you
         | want the home assistant app to control your lights... Play
         | store.
         | 
         | However. My ubports pinephone which is running Arch is missing
         | a few key features. Performance is one. And I can't get the
         | replacement mainboard that has the extra RAM because it's been
         | out of stock for the past few months. And the other is Wi-Fi
         | calling. I live in an area with poor reception and need wifi
         | calling.I just flashed my android phone back from LineageOS
         | because lineage wifi calling wasnt working.
         | 
         | I really really really want pinephones and librem 5s to work
         | out. I acknowledge it is hard "lord's work" they are doing. but
         | it's still not quite there yet. We're getting close enough that
         | within a few years, I'll be using linux as my daily driver,
         | even if I don't feel comfortable recommending it to my grandma.
        
           | kop316 wrote:
           | > And the other is Wi-Fi calling. I live in an area with poor
           | reception and need wifi calling.I just flashed my android
           | phone back from LineageOS because lineage wifi calling wasnt
           | working.
           | 
           | So you know, that is because of a proprietary library that is
           | included in Android. It isn't included in the AOSP build,
           | which is why it was not wokring for a while (it is wokring
           | now).
           | 
           | I am curious how WiFi calling works though. VoLTE is
           | essentially VoIP (so data), I imagine that SMS on LTE is very
           | similar, and I know MMS is over data too. My intuition would
           | be that somehow, some sort of VPN is being established?
        
             | bisby wrote:
             | It's definitely not working in any Lineage 17.1 or 18.1
             | builds I've tried. Or is it in the gapps layer? I always go
             | with the minimal gapps, so that would make sense.
        
               | kop316 wrote:
               | It's not in gapps. I have it working on T mobile USA in
               | the latest grapheneOS
        
             | wiml wrote:
             | From what I remember (and this was a while back), wifi
             | calling establishes an IPsec tunnel to the cellular
             | provider (using your SIM for auth) and tunnels GSM frames
             | over it. It's intended to let you handoff between "real"
             | towers and wifi networks the same way that you move between
             | one tower and another, which I assume means that it has to
             | implement some functionality that is normally hidden in the
             | baseband processor.
        
           | zeta0134 wrote:
           | Could you elaborate on the Home Assistant thing? I'm running
           | that app from the F-droid store right now, and I sorta
           | blindly assumed it was the official one. Now I'm worried; is
           | this some outdated clone?
        
             | bisby wrote:
             | https://github.com/home-assistant/android/issues/42
             | 
             | > We have no interest in maintaining a branch of the app
             | that doesn't depend on any proprietary services.
             | 
             | Developers explain why they wouldn't (naming issues, and
             | "the point of the android app vs just using a browser is to
             | have the location tracking, which requires google
             | services") and then the thread was closed. And then I
             | stopped following the issue and begrudgingly installed from
             | Play store (I'm not de-googled, because like the GP
             | mentioned, it's very hard to do even if you think you have
             | done it, so in some cases I don't even try).
             | 
             | There are a LOT of locked threads in their github issues on
             | the same topic. The F-Droid version appears to be a build
             | of the appropriate repo, and the description says "This is
             | the minimal flavor that does not have location tracking or
             | notifications" (so the 2 things mentioned previously,
             | location and push notifications are hard to do without
             | Google).
             | 
             | https://github.com/home-assistant/android/pull/682 here is
             | the PR that adds in a "minimal" flavor without the Google
             | features. I stand corrected. A bunch of neat things have
             | happened since I stopped paying attention, and I'm pretty
             | proud of the HA team for getting around to resolving this
             | amicably, even if they were a bit rough about it in the
             | beginning.
             | 
             | edit: ... I just realized I installed Home Assistant from
             | F-Droid when I just re-imaged my phone this weekend.
             | Without even realizing it.
        
               | johnbrodie wrote:
               | For what it's worth, location services work fine in
               | MicroG, at least for any app I've tried. MicroG presents
               | the same API as the "real" Google version, and lets the
               | user choose which backends to use for things like
               | network-based location.
        
               | 0e6cbf wrote:
               | I found that the mobile interface for Home Assistant
               | works great without needing an app. Just pinned my HA
               | website to my home screen and there's one less piece of
               | software on my device.
               | 
               | There is some HA cloud paid service IIRC - I can't speak
               | to whether an app would be needed for that. But for my
               | purposes the mobile web is more than sufficient.
        
         | rektide wrote:
         | This rather is the important work I agree.
         | 
         | Personally I'm not that afraid of Google nor what they are up
         | to. I think they strike a decent balance. I tire of the
         | polemics against them.
         | 
         | What I see as critically important, as absolutely key to a
         | vital, alive civilization is progress & exploration. Android is
         | on version 11, and at this point, the mold has set. This world
         | where you buy a phone, run the same OS you've always run, and
         | wait 3 years until you have to throw it out (because it's
         | running an antique kernel & security updates are ending) is an
         | unexciting one, it is less than what human potential has
         | available.
         | 
         | PinePhone is one of the forebearers of a better future. Which
         | future? Any of them, all of them. The future that is coming
         | that doesn't look exactly like today that doesn't look exactly
         | like 5 years ago. The future where hardware is supported for
         | more than 3 years. The future where there are multiple
         | different interfaces & operating systems available for devices.
         | 
         | The future where people other than giant companies have a
         | chance to build cool hardware. This one is a nod too to Quartz,
         | their new/upcoming very-competent, expandable mid-range option,
         | which they explicitly target as a featureful development kit to
         | make cool hardware on. Battery charging, 12V, ePaper, camera,
         | display, USB, PCIe,... just a lot of good robust well built
         | features. On an open source board.
         | 
         | The fact that everyone is so up in arms against Google
         | disguises what a boring, out-of-our-hands, staid, unchanging
         | future we've been lead in to. Google is not the focus. The
         | actual agents that we should be looking at, attending to, are
         | ourselves. We've still spinning endless stories & selling fear
         | of some other, but it is our own slumbering, our own lack of
         | control & competency & creative freedom that defines the last
         | decade of communicative capitalism taking over. PinePhone &
         | Pine64 just want the individual human spirit to have a chance
         | again. (And to band together as they may with other spirited
         | journeyers.)
         | 
         | Excited as well by their last bit in the update, embracing
         | LoRaWAN. Not just opening the door to innovation in cellular
         | phones, but blowing open decentralized, user-empowering new
         | means of communication.
        
           | teekert wrote:
           | Yes LoraWAN is so cool, with a couple of enthusiasts you can
           | cover a city with an open network that can handle small
           | messages and many sensors that run for years on batteries.
        
         | Youden wrote:
         | The GrapheneOS FAQ [0] enumerates all the connections the OS
         | and default apps will make and notably absent is anything
         | Google-related.
         | 
         | Your claims seem to contradict the FAQ (e.g. you mention
         | connectivity checks which are mentioned explicitly). Have you
         | reported any of these issues (e.g. [1])? What was the response?
         | Can you point to any specifically problematic code?
         | 
         | I'm not involved with GrapheneOS in any way but these seem like
         | easily-verifiable claims if true.
         | 
         | [0]: https://grapheneos.org/faq#default-connections
         | 
         | [1]: https://grapheneos.org/contact#reporting-issues
        
           | user3939382 wrote:
           | I regret that I didn't do a detailed write up at the time,
           | and that since I didn't I only have some abstract anecdata to
           | offer but for what it's worth:
           | 
           | A couple years ago I rooted Android (Planet Gemini),
           | installed my own root CA, forced all network through USB-C
           | --> ethernet, connected the ethernet to a physical network
           | tap, and decrypted almost all the traffic. With only a
           | handful of common apps installed the (idle state, no UI
           | interaction) phone-home traffic and telemetry was non-stop. A
           | majority of it was to Google, blocking it made the phone
           | basically non-functional.
           | 
           | There were also inexplicable calls to strange Chinese IP
           | addresses that would only emerge every one or two weeks that
           | I couldn't hunt down the source of and Planet said they
           | didn't recognize.
           | 
           | I want network activity to be 100% correlated with my UI
           | interactions including updates. I feel power users should be
           | given that right and option. Windows and macOS (and sadly
           | Firefox) are also miles away from this but Android was
           | ridiculous. I haven't tested iOS but I assume it's about the
           | same.
        
           | ThenAsNow wrote:
           | I have spent time on the IRC channel and it is clear the
           | founder/project lead (whom I'm not criticizing) has a
           | different idea of what privacy means than what I do. He
           | doesn't necessarily view connections to Google servers that
           | take place without explicit user intention/confirmation as
           | problematic. Based on his strong personality, I did not think
           | it likely any patches I wrote would be accepted by him.
           | Indeed, he thinks it best to "blend in" with other Android
           | traffic. He is also, in my opinion, overworked.
           | 
           | I'm looking at my abortive patchset against GrapheneOS from
           | last year, which I never bothered to finish up to post, and
           | will just pick a couple of random samples:
           | packages/apps/Gallery/src/com/android/camera/MenuHelper.java
           | (calls maps.google.com)
           | packages/apps/Settings/src/com/android/RadioInfo.java
           | (multiple connectivity checks pinging Google servers)
           | external/webrtc/webrtc/p2p/stunprober/main.cc (uses a Google
           | STUN server)
           | packages/apps/Nfc/src/com/android/nfc/P2pLinkManager.java
           | (calls to the play store)
           | 
           | That's a random sampling, not trying to assess for
           | "severity". You can rationalize away each of these
           | individually, but I was at 41 patches when I stopped
           | (including changes that address Google connections that
           | GrapheneOS acknowledges). The cockroach infestation analogy
           | is pretty apt. They are everywhere, and if you try to follow
           | the code to assess for severity, it will be hugely time-
           | consuming, so unless you have a team developing the patches,
           | the safest thing is to pre-emptively patch out.
           | 
           | I'm not saying any of these is malicious, my point is there
           | are tons of these kinds of things littering the code. It will
           | be extremely time-consuming to find and cut this stuff out of
           | the base applications and libraries underlying installed
           | applications.
           | 
           | And BTW again, this says nothing about SUPL, which is still
           | tracked as an issue about which there isn't a lot of clarity:
           | https://github.com/GrapheneOS/os_issue_tracker/issues/96
           | 
           | You can also see in that issue thread that the project lead
           | does not see the project as focusing on de-Googling which is,
           | in fact, what many of us want, and are wrongly projecting as
           | a GrapheneOS project goal.
        
             | throwawayboise wrote:
             | I mean, it almost sounds like you want a phone that doesn't
             | connect to anything. If I may ask, what's the point. Just
             | don't carry a phone.
        
               | monocasa wrote:
               | It sounds like they primarily don't want their phone to
               | connect to Google without asking the user, not that they
               | don't want it to connect to anything. Google has not
               | become the whole internet yet.
        
               | ThenAsNow wrote:
               | Exactly this. I'm not sure how wanting a device that can
               | connect as per my requests/configuration requires that I
               | must also be OK with it willy-nilly connecting to
               | whatever it wants.
        
       | elipsey wrote:
       | Anyone know what DE is used in the picture of the pinebook pro?
       | 
       | some of the other screenshots look like gnome, but that one has
       | miraculously not giant widgets/windowbars.
       | 
       | also, does anyone know what those earbuds are?
        
         | djclay wrote:
         | If I'm looking at the same image that you are, the DE looks a
         | lot like Lomiri (AKA Unity 8) but I'm not 100% sure.
        
           | ThatGeoGuy wrote:
           | Yup, this is Lomiri on Manjaro.
        
         | krastanov wrote:
         | Some of the pictures seem to use the phosh DE from Librem 5 (at
         | least it looks the same as the Librem I have).
        
       | christkv wrote:
       | PCI x4 I wonder if it will be able to accommodate a GPU
        
         | MartijnBraam wrote:
         | Well it doesn't work on rk3399. Maybe it's fixed on the new
         | ones
        
       | pickle-wizard wrote:
       | I'm excited for the upcoming RISC-V SBCs. I don't have a use case
       | for it, but it will be interesting to mess around with.
        
       | nightowl_games wrote:
       | Pine64 really seems to have values and communications that I
       | would associate with a European company. How are they so
       | different than their Chinese colleagues?
        
       | jjice wrote:
       | An affordable RISC-V board sounds incredible. Sub $15 is
       | something to write home about and I'll definitely pick on up when
       | it releases. Playing with a new(ish) architecture sounds like a
       | good time and this will hopefully get some more CS/CE/EE courses
       | switching over to using RISC-V boards.
        
       | marcodiego wrote:
       | "... about 150 closed source binaries and libraries that make the
       | modem work. Biktor is working on replacing all of them with 3
       | open source alternatives ..."
       | 
       | That means we can dream with proprietary blob-free phones in the
       | not too distant future?
        
         | kop316 wrote:
         | Totally blob free? Unfortunately not: "We aren't touching the
         | modem's ADSP firmware, because in addition to the inherent
         | difficulties that come with it, modifying the ADSP firmware
         | could lead to problems with RF regulations or certifications."
         | 
         | The ADSP firmware is the firmware that does all of the heavy
         | lifting for physical communications.
        
           | marcodiego wrote:
           | Close enough for me. I don't know how (un)reasonable it may
           | be, but I think the "put it on a read-only chip and run on a
           | 'secondary processor'" maneuver would be enough for fsf ryf
           | certification[1]. The way it is now is free and open enough
           | for me nevertheless.
           | 
           | [1] https://puri.sm/posts/librem5-solving-the-first-fsf-ryf-
           | hurd...
        
         | megous wrote:
         | It may have 150 binaries on the ARM side, but most are a) not
         | used, b) don't don anything interesting or very involved c)
         | some are FOSS already, like busybox, or have some code
         | available if you look hard enough on github.
         | 
         | That's also why it's feasible to re-create userspace from
         | scratch.
         | 
         | Anyway, it's gonna be nice having a lot of space to do
         | interesting stuff in the modem's SoC.
        
           | biktor_gj wrote:
           | That count is only of quectel and qualcomm binaries and
           | libraries, busybox, sysvinit, scripts, config files etc.
           | where not in that pack.
           | 
           | True though, most of them don't do anything interesting, or
           | only one interesting thing for the thousand that could do in
           | a typical scenario
        
       | neilv wrote:
       | Having played with postmarketOS (pmOS) on and off for a while on
       | various devices, as well as countless other Linux handheld
       | efforts, I was pleasantly surprised with how well pmOS + Phosh
       | (the Purism Librem 5 userland) worked on my new PinePhone. I
       | haven't yet tested the cellular functionality.
       | 
       | https://wiki.postmarketos.org/wiki/PINE64_PinePhone_(pine64-...
       | 
       | (My older, pre-Phosh notes:
       | https://www.neilvandyke.org/postmarketos/ )
       | 
       | If I end up moving to pmOS+Phosh for a daily driver phone, I'll
       | have to see what the Librem 5 pricing and availability is at that
       | time. I'd like to support Purism, and their hardware might turn
       | out to be more trustworthy, but it's pricier, so it'd have to be
       | a daily driver that I need.
       | 
       | One backup/stopgap option (besides my iPhone and collection of a
       | few developer devices) is Replicant (FSF-blessed Android fork),
       | and I have a couple of i9300 phones for that. Practically, it's
       | Android that's been gravely crippled, for better or worse.
       | pmOS+Phosh seems a more desirable ultimate destination, than
       | Replicant trying to maintain a fork of someone else's massive
       | codebase that's developed with philosophical differences and
       | vastly more resources. But Replicant does have more mobile polish
       | right now that's expensive to recreate, plus some nice open
       | source Android apps like K-9 Mail.
       | 
       | https://www.neilvandyke.org/replicant/
        
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