[HN Gopher] M1 Air with Thermal Pad Mod
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       M1 Air with Thermal Pad Mod
        
       Author : batterylow
       Score  : 71 points
       Date   : 2021-02-14 14:45 UTC (8 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (forums.macrumors.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (forums.macrumors.com)
        
       | chrismorgan wrote:
       | Thermals are fun. Doing video encoding on my Surface Book
       | (i7-6600U) in a 25-35degC ambient temperature, lying its heat
       | source down on a marble floor speeds it up by 60% within a minute
       | or so. (Remember the Surface Book puts its CPU behind the screen,
       | so it doesn't transfer much heat through the base. This is in its
       | performance mode, where it can get impressively hot for a 15W
       | CPU, like ow-that-actually-hurts hot. But because that's not the
       | _base_ , I think they weren't scared to transfer heat to the
       | body, which is what it sounds like this M1 MacBook Air is
       | avoiding.)
        
       | theodric wrote:
       | I threw my M1 MacBook Air in a snowbank in -11degC last night,
       | let it chill for 15 minutes, then ran Geekbench and Cinebench
       | 
       | Here's GB: https://browser.geekbench.com/v5/cpu/6487568
       | 
       | Cinebench was 7709, about 900 points higher than my usual bench
       | result.
        
         | BugsJustFindMe wrote:
         | Isn't that dangerous for the screen?
        
       | stu2b50 wrote:
       | This is a good way to easily give yourself more endurance
       | performance but I wouldn't recommend it - it does make the
       | chassis uncomfortably hot.
        
         | BossingAround wrote:
         | Depends on the use-case. If you use your laptop mostly in a
         | clamshell mode connected to a monitor and keyboard, you don't
         | really care about the chassis.
        
           | stu2b50 wrote:
           | I suppose. There probably is a thin niche that would
           | appreciate the performance gains, but I feel that in most
           | cases you'd rather have a pro or really a mac mini if you
           | mostly use it as a desktop and have a need for sustained
           | performance over time.
        
             | Wowfunhappy wrote:
             | Could be both. You can use the computer on your lap if
             | you're doing word processing and checking email, or on a
             | desk if you're editing video.
        
               | stu2b50 wrote:
               | Right, but it's a pretty scarce section of the venn
               | diagram between
               | 
               | Needs a laptop (since you're not getting a Mini) to use
               | portable
               | 
               | Needs endurance CPU performance (and notices a 15%
               | performance decrease)
               | 
               | Frequently docks laptop during workloads
               | 
               | Can't or doesn't want to pay extra for the MBP
        
               | Wowfunhappy wrote:
               | > Frequently docks laptop during workloads
               | 
               | That's not a requirement, you merely need to use your
               | laptop at a _desk_ (or a table, or the seat-back shelf on
               | an airplane) and not literally on your lap. That 's
               | usually how I use my laptop anyway, for comfort reasons.
               | Certainly when I'm doing something CPU heavy, since I
               | don't generally edit videos on the subway.
               | 
               | I think the other three requirements are perfectly
               | common.
        
         | systemvoltage wrote:
         | its 7 degrees over the recommended upper limit per regulations.
         | Linus Tech Tips highly recommends it, its not scalding hot and
         | I wouldn't call it "Uncomfortably hot".
         | 
         | It gets toasty if you run long workloads.
        
           | fastball wrote:
           | Presumably my existing MBP 16" is within regulations, but it
           | can get uncomfortably hot in my lap.
           | 
           | Don't think I'd want 7o over that.
        
             | systemvoltage wrote:
             | I can handle more heat than you can perhaps? I also have
             | MBP 16" 2019 version and it gets no where close to any
             | uncomfortable region for me on full throttle. I also drink
             | my coffee scaldingly hot :)
        
       | floatingatoll wrote:
       | Folks, keep in mind that you're doing this to something
       | containing a lithium battery. If it explodes, your hot case is
       | going to get far hotter. Please be cautious.
       | 
       | A brief FAQ list to address the predictable replies:
       | 
       | Q: _But it hasn 't burned anyone!_
       | 
       | Yet.
       | 
       | Q: _It won 't, obviously!_
       | 
       | And yet, it might.
       | 
       | Q: _Nonsense!_
       | 
       | You're thermally overclocking a physical object that happens to
       | contain enough charged lithium to kill a small household.
       | 
       | Q: _I know what I 'm doing!_
       | 
       | Then you put a "heat warning" sticker on the top cover, right?
       | 
       | Q: _Of course not, that would make it ugly. And anyways I don 't
       | have one._
       | 
       | So you're consciously choosing not to take appropriate safety
       | precautions?
       | 
       | Q: _They 're not appropriate._
       | 
       | You don't know what you're doing.
       | 
       | Q: _Safety precautions aren 't that big of a deal, it's just a
       | few degrees warmer!_
       | 
       | Are you familiar with the phrase "served as a lesson to us all"?
       | 
       | Q: _A comment on the Internet said that it 's safe to use my bare
       | legs as heatsinks._
       | 
       | "Served as a warning to others".
       | 
       | Q: _But I know how to apply thermal paste properly!_
       | 
       | All the better to injure yourself and your property with.
       | 
       | Q: _I have the right to modify my own objects!_
       | 
       | And, in return, you grant those objects the right to harm you if
       | your modifications introduce drawbacks.
       | 
       | Q: _That 's impossible!_
       | 
       | Nothing's impossible when it comes to people modifying things
       | while thinking they know better.
       | 
       | Q: _It 's so low of a likelihood that I'm willing to take my
       | chances._
       | 
       | That's your right, as long as the object isn't in the vicinity of
       | other human beings at any point in its modified life.
        
         | soganess wrote:
         | While you are right and I applauded your caution.
         | 
         | It is also fair to note that no (electronically non-conductive)
         | heat dissipation mod is likely going to cause a runaway thermal
         | event hot enough put the kind of stress you are talking about
         | on a battery, at least not on an M1 Air. If you were using
         | liquid metal and it caused a short, sure, but that is a
         | regularly occurring issue with liquid metal.
         | 
         | This is an electronically non-conductive thermal pad with, what
         | do you figure, a 5w/mK thermal conductivity? On a device that
         | probably never cracks 15w peak. And you can bet if it does, it
         | would only sustains that output on the order of seconds.
         | 
         | That said, I'm all for stopping unskilled people from
         | attempting unsafe things. But then again, doing those sorts of
         | things would sum up my hobbies neatly.
        
         | rowanG077 wrote:
         | This comment greatly depresses me. You are pretending as if
         | batteries are volatile bombs. They are not. They can generally
         | handle temps of upto 55 degrees fine. And guess what. They
         | include thermal sensors.
         | 
         | This mod is so low risk for the battery it might as well be
         | almost 0.
        
       | AmVess wrote:
       | I did this to mine. It no longer throttles under any type of
       | regular use. I did an hour long encode using Final Cut Pro and
       | the hottest it got was 83C. The hottest the battery got was 44C,
       | so it is doing a fine job of dumping the heat outside of the
       | device.
       | 
       | The bottom cover does get hot, but I don't keep it on my lap.
       | 
       | I don't do any gaming with it, but I tested Rise of the Tomb
       | Raider and it handled it very well without throttling. My XPS
       | turned into a leaf blower in seconds with the same game and still
       | managed to throttle at times.
       | 
       | I'd recommend the MB Pro M1 if you want to do longer projects.
       | I'm pretty sure the MBA would become heatsoaked after encoding
       | for a few hours. The Pro has a fan.
       | 
       | It's a good mod that takes a few minutes to do and really
       | delivers.
       | 
       | Apple really killed it with the M1. I have the base model.
       | Affinity Photo is another app that has been optimized for the M1,
       | and in some operations manages to be faster than my 8 core/16
       | thread Ryzen 3700 with 32GB of ram.
       | 
       | It simply curb stomps my XPS in every single performance metric
       | while being totally silent and never throttling under what I use
       | it for.
       | 
       | Safari has also been tuned for the M1, and it is the fastest
       | browsing machine I have ever used.
        
         | chillacy wrote:
         | I'm contemplating this mod too, what app do you use to measure
         | the temps?
        
       | flixic wrote:
       | Linus Tech Tips did a video on this:
       | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ghDvyItIHTY
        
         | robert_tweed wrote:
         | He also referenced the story from 2002 about the man who burned
         | his "delicate bits" with a hot laptop. He suggests it may be
         | apocryphal. I remember that story [1].
         | 
         | The main reason I remember it is because of the reported
         | warning text. At that time, I owned a Dell Latitude L400
         | laptop, which did indeed come with the exact warning text
         | quoted in the article. It got got far hotter than any other
         | laptop I have used. I have no trouble believing it could burn
         | someone.
         | 
         | [1]
         | https://www.theregister.com/2002/11/22/man_burns_penis_with_...
        
           | davee5 wrote:
           | This is why at Apple the division making MacBooks is called
           | "portables" and not "laptops." They're officially not
           | supposed to go on your lap.
           | 
           | Also the thermal limits of the human dermis are pretty well
           | studied and documented. The vast majority of CE products are
           | designed not to exceed 50degC, which is when the thin skinned
           | (children and elderly) start to get second degree burns
           | pretty fast. 60degC is where you burn almost immediately.
           | 
           | Interestingly 45degC is "threshold of pain" for most folks,
           | but few companies set that as the target limit. Since thermal
           | dissipation is a [?]T game that last 5 degrees matters a LOT
           | for wattage out (on a hot day outside 30-35degC is a good
           | surface temp estimate, so that last five degrees is the
           | difference between 10 or 15 degrees out, a non trivial
           | delta.)
        
         | Joeri wrote:
         | Created labs did a step by step guide:
         | https://youtu.be/IACHo5y9Los
        
       | BossingAround wrote:
       | Seems like the difference between thermal throttled MBA and non-
       | throttled MBP is ~15-20%..?
        
       | sixothree wrote:
       | Just don't sit it on your lap.
        
         | jws wrote:
         | The trick is to make good skin contact with your legs before
         | you heat it up. You are a mammal and can easily dissipate over
         | 100 watts, it is your human super power. The bottom will only
         | get a bit warm as you pump away all the heat.
         | 
         | In days of old I used to keep the fans from coming on for an
         | aluminum PowerBook with this trick.
        
           | infogulch wrote:
           | The human heat sink. Sounds like something from The Matrix.
        
           | Rebelgecko wrote:
           | I remember reading a study that for male laptop users the
           | extra heat has a small but real impact on fertility
        
             | borishn wrote:
             | Ouch, is that where the heat dissipates from?
        
             | gumby wrote:
             | A bonus, though a very small and unreliable one.
             | 
             | Better to just get the hardware upgrade. It's pretty quick
             | and seems harmless.
        
           | ComputerGuru wrote:
           | You can even lose weight this way!
           | 
           | (I'm mostly kidding but not entirely. Most of our resting
           | state calorie consumption is spent on thermal homeostasis,
           | and the greater a temperature gradient your body needs to
           | overcome whether to warm up or cool down, the more calories
           | it'll burn in doing so. Although if you're sitting in the
           | freezing cold or in an air conditioned room and putting a
           | warm laptop on your lap, you're probably going to be burning
           | _fewer_ calories since you're nudging your body temperature
           | in the right direction.)
        
             | rsync wrote:
             | I am convinced this is why children get so dead-tired after
             | the swimming pool - even if only wading around. They have a
             | small body mass and they need to regulate a ~20 degree
             | temperature differential ...
        
       | Tepix wrote:
       | Sounds like it's worth doing if you want to do longer edit
       | sessions with Final Cut Pro on the M1 Air.
       | 
       | I like that you can control how hot the bottom gets by applying
       | more or less thermal pads.
        
       | BugsJustFindMe wrote:
       | A lot of people are saying "Ok, but this burns your legs/crotch".
       | But could you do this and then better insulate the outside of the
       | bottom so that the heat transfers into the case faster and out of
       | the case slower per square inch? You'd still have an effectively
       | much larger heat sink.
        
       | m463 wrote:
       | the question I have is:
       | 
       | Is the mac mini similarly affected?
        
         | stu2b50 wrote:
         | No, the Mini has a fan and a hilariously large enclosure for
         | airflow. Both the Mini and Pro have no trouble sustaining loads
         | indefinitely.
        
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