[HN Gopher] M1 Air with Thermal Pad Mod
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M1 Air with Thermal Pad Mod
Author : batterylow
Score : 71 points
Date : 2021-02-14 14:45 UTC (8 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (forums.macrumors.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (forums.macrumors.com)
| chrismorgan wrote:
| Thermals are fun. Doing video encoding on my Surface Book
| (i7-6600U) in a 25-35degC ambient temperature, lying its heat
| source down on a marble floor speeds it up by 60% within a minute
| or so. (Remember the Surface Book puts its CPU behind the screen,
| so it doesn't transfer much heat through the base. This is in its
| performance mode, where it can get impressively hot for a 15W
| CPU, like ow-that-actually-hurts hot. But because that's not the
| _base_ , I think they weren't scared to transfer heat to the
| body, which is what it sounds like this M1 MacBook Air is
| avoiding.)
| theodric wrote:
| I threw my M1 MacBook Air in a snowbank in -11degC last night,
| let it chill for 15 minutes, then ran Geekbench and Cinebench
|
| Here's GB: https://browser.geekbench.com/v5/cpu/6487568
|
| Cinebench was 7709, about 900 points higher than my usual bench
| result.
| BugsJustFindMe wrote:
| Isn't that dangerous for the screen?
| stu2b50 wrote:
| This is a good way to easily give yourself more endurance
| performance but I wouldn't recommend it - it does make the
| chassis uncomfortably hot.
| BossingAround wrote:
| Depends on the use-case. If you use your laptop mostly in a
| clamshell mode connected to a monitor and keyboard, you don't
| really care about the chassis.
| stu2b50 wrote:
| I suppose. There probably is a thin niche that would
| appreciate the performance gains, but I feel that in most
| cases you'd rather have a pro or really a mac mini if you
| mostly use it as a desktop and have a need for sustained
| performance over time.
| Wowfunhappy wrote:
| Could be both. You can use the computer on your lap if
| you're doing word processing and checking email, or on a
| desk if you're editing video.
| stu2b50 wrote:
| Right, but it's a pretty scarce section of the venn
| diagram between
|
| Needs a laptop (since you're not getting a Mini) to use
| portable
|
| Needs endurance CPU performance (and notices a 15%
| performance decrease)
|
| Frequently docks laptop during workloads
|
| Can't or doesn't want to pay extra for the MBP
| Wowfunhappy wrote:
| > Frequently docks laptop during workloads
|
| That's not a requirement, you merely need to use your
| laptop at a _desk_ (or a table, or the seat-back shelf on
| an airplane) and not literally on your lap. That 's
| usually how I use my laptop anyway, for comfort reasons.
| Certainly when I'm doing something CPU heavy, since I
| don't generally edit videos on the subway.
|
| I think the other three requirements are perfectly
| common.
| systemvoltage wrote:
| its 7 degrees over the recommended upper limit per regulations.
| Linus Tech Tips highly recommends it, its not scalding hot and
| I wouldn't call it "Uncomfortably hot".
|
| It gets toasty if you run long workloads.
| fastball wrote:
| Presumably my existing MBP 16" is within regulations, but it
| can get uncomfortably hot in my lap.
|
| Don't think I'd want 7o over that.
| systemvoltage wrote:
| I can handle more heat than you can perhaps? I also have
| MBP 16" 2019 version and it gets no where close to any
| uncomfortable region for me on full throttle. I also drink
| my coffee scaldingly hot :)
| floatingatoll wrote:
| Folks, keep in mind that you're doing this to something
| containing a lithium battery. If it explodes, your hot case is
| going to get far hotter. Please be cautious.
|
| A brief FAQ list to address the predictable replies:
|
| Q: _But it hasn 't burned anyone!_
|
| Yet.
|
| Q: _It won 't, obviously!_
|
| And yet, it might.
|
| Q: _Nonsense!_
|
| You're thermally overclocking a physical object that happens to
| contain enough charged lithium to kill a small household.
|
| Q: _I know what I 'm doing!_
|
| Then you put a "heat warning" sticker on the top cover, right?
|
| Q: _Of course not, that would make it ugly. And anyways I don 't
| have one._
|
| So you're consciously choosing not to take appropriate safety
| precautions?
|
| Q: _They 're not appropriate._
|
| You don't know what you're doing.
|
| Q: _Safety precautions aren 't that big of a deal, it's just a
| few degrees warmer!_
|
| Are you familiar with the phrase "served as a lesson to us all"?
|
| Q: _A comment on the Internet said that it 's safe to use my bare
| legs as heatsinks._
|
| "Served as a warning to others".
|
| Q: _But I know how to apply thermal paste properly!_
|
| All the better to injure yourself and your property with.
|
| Q: _I have the right to modify my own objects!_
|
| And, in return, you grant those objects the right to harm you if
| your modifications introduce drawbacks.
|
| Q: _That 's impossible!_
|
| Nothing's impossible when it comes to people modifying things
| while thinking they know better.
|
| Q: _It 's so low of a likelihood that I'm willing to take my
| chances._
|
| That's your right, as long as the object isn't in the vicinity of
| other human beings at any point in its modified life.
| soganess wrote:
| While you are right and I applauded your caution.
|
| It is also fair to note that no (electronically non-conductive)
| heat dissipation mod is likely going to cause a runaway thermal
| event hot enough put the kind of stress you are talking about
| on a battery, at least not on an M1 Air. If you were using
| liquid metal and it caused a short, sure, but that is a
| regularly occurring issue with liquid metal.
|
| This is an electronically non-conductive thermal pad with, what
| do you figure, a 5w/mK thermal conductivity? On a device that
| probably never cracks 15w peak. And you can bet if it does, it
| would only sustains that output on the order of seconds.
|
| That said, I'm all for stopping unskilled people from
| attempting unsafe things. But then again, doing those sorts of
| things would sum up my hobbies neatly.
| rowanG077 wrote:
| This comment greatly depresses me. You are pretending as if
| batteries are volatile bombs. They are not. They can generally
| handle temps of upto 55 degrees fine. And guess what. They
| include thermal sensors.
|
| This mod is so low risk for the battery it might as well be
| almost 0.
| AmVess wrote:
| I did this to mine. It no longer throttles under any type of
| regular use. I did an hour long encode using Final Cut Pro and
| the hottest it got was 83C. The hottest the battery got was 44C,
| so it is doing a fine job of dumping the heat outside of the
| device.
|
| The bottom cover does get hot, but I don't keep it on my lap.
|
| I don't do any gaming with it, but I tested Rise of the Tomb
| Raider and it handled it very well without throttling. My XPS
| turned into a leaf blower in seconds with the same game and still
| managed to throttle at times.
|
| I'd recommend the MB Pro M1 if you want to do longer projects.
| I'm pretty sure the MBA would become heatsoaked after encoding
| for a few hours. The Pro has a fan.
|
| It's a good mod that takes a few minutes to do and really
| delivers.
|
| Apple really killed it with the M1. I have the base model.
| Affinity Photo is another app that has been optimized for the M1,
| and in some operations manages to be faster than my 8 core/16
| thread Ryzen 3700 with 32GB of ram.
|
| It simply curb stomps my XPS in every single performance metric
| while being totally silent and never throttling under what I use
| it for.
|
| Safari has also been tuned for the M1, and it is the fastest
| browsing machine I have ever used.
| chillacy wrote:
| I'm contemplating this mod too, what app do you use to measure
| the temps?
| flixic wrote:
| Linus Tech Tips did a video on this:
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ghDvyItIHTY
| robert_tweed wrote:
| He also referenced the story from 2002 about the man who burned
| his "delicate bits" with a hot laptop. He suggests it may be
| apocryphal. I remember that story [1].
|
| The main reason I remember it is because of the reported
| warning text. At that time, I owned a Dell Latitude L400
| laptop, which did indeed come with the exact warning text
| quoted in the article. It got got far hotter than any other
| laptop I have used. I have no trouble believing it could burn
| someone.
|
| [1]
| https://www.theregister.com/2002/11/22/man_burns_penis_with_...
| davee5 wrote:
| This is why at Apple the division making MacBooks is called
| "portables" and not "laptops." They're officially not
| supposed to go on your lap.
|
| Also the thermal limits of the human dermis are pretty well
| studied and documented. The vast majority of CE products are
| designed not to exceed 50degC, which is when the thin skinned
| (children and elderly) start to get second degree burns
| pretty fast. 60degC is where you burn almost immediately.
|
| Interestingly 45degC is "threshold of pain" for most folks,
| but few companies set that as the target limit. Since thermal
| dissipation is a [?]T game that last 5 degrees matters a LOT
| for wattage out (on a hot day outside 30-35degC is a good
| surface temp estimate, so that last five degrees is the
| difference between 10 or 15 degrees out, a non trivial
| delta.)
| Joeri wrote:
| Created labs did a step by step guide:
| https://youtu.be/IACHo5y9Los
| BossingAround wrote:
| Seems like the difference between thermal throttled MBA and non-
| throttled MBP is ~15-20%..?
| sixothree wrote:
| Just don't sit it on your lap.
| jws wrote:
| The trick is to make good skin contact with your legs before
| you heat it up. You are a mammal and can easily dissipate over
| 100 watts, it is your human super power. The bottom will only
| get a bit warm as you pump away all the heat.
|
| In days of old I used to keep the fans from coming on for an
| aluminum PowerBook with this trick.
| infogulch wrote:
| The human heat sink. Sounds like something from The Matrix.
| Rebelgecko wrote:
| I remember reading a study that for male laptop users the
| extra heat has a small but real impact on fertility
| borishn wrote:
| Ouch, is that where the heat dissipates from?
| gumby wrote:
| A bonus, though a very small and unreliable one.
|
| Better to just get the hardware upgrade. It's pretty quick
| and seems harmless.
| ComputerGuru wrote:
| You can even lose weight this way!
|
| (I'm mostly kidding but not entirely. Most of our resting
| state calorie consumption is spent on thermal homeostasis,
| and the greater a temperature gradient your body needs to
| overcome whether to warm up or cool down, the more calories
| it'll burn in doing so. Although if you're sitting in the
| freezing cold or in an air conditioned room and putting a
| warm laptop on your lap, you're probably going to be burning
| _fewer_ calories since you're nudging your body temperature
| in the right direction.)
| rsync wrote:
| I am convinced this is why children get so dead-tired after
| the swimming pool - even if only wading around. They have a
| small body mass and they need to regulate a ~20 degree
| temperature differential ...
| Tepix wrote:
| Sounds like it's worth doing if you want to do longer edit
| sessions with Final Cut Pro on the M1 Air.
|
| I like that you can control how hot the bottom gets by applying
| more or less thermal pads.
| BugsJustFindMe wrote:
| A lot of people are saying "Ok, but this burns your legs/crotch".
| But could you do this and then better insulate the outside of the
| bottom so that the heat transfers into the case faster and out of
| the case slower per square inch? You'd still have an effectively
| much larger heat sink.
| m463 wrote:
| the question I have is:
|
| Is the mac mini similarly affected?
| stu2b50 wrote:
| No, the Mini has a fan and a hilariously large enclosure for
| airflow. Both the Mini and Pro have no trouble sustaining loads
| indefinitely.
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