[HN Gopher] Stonehenge may have been built in Wales and then rel...
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Stonehenge may have been built in Wales and then relocated
        
       Author : samizdis
       Score  : 97 points
       Date   : 2021-02-12 09:30 UTC (13 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.bbc.co.uk)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.bbc.co.uk)
        
       | jll29 wrote:
       | Maybe they found a rounding error in the location calculations
       | only after the site was half-finished.
       | 
       | Late errrors in projects are always costly.
        
         | tim333 wrote:
         | Apparently they were up for about 400 years in Wales. Project
         | ran late I guess.
        
           | lukeramsden wrote:
           | I bet it was still more within delivery parameters than HS2
           | is.
        
         | cesis wrote:
         | It also might be off-site construction.
         | 
         | https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Off-site_construction
        
       | Theodores wrote:
       | Stonehenge is a gift that keeps giving. Everyone has their
       | opinion about it, which is more of a mirror on them than anything
       | to do with the stones.
       | 
       | For a joke there should be a Stonehenge week on YouTube where
       | scores of armchair historians research and invent parallel
       | narratives.
       | 
       | It is fascinating how any mystery can be projected on to a Pagan
       | religious belief that does not have to be specified further.
       | 
       | Even if it was nuked from orbit TV crews would continue their
       | documentaries.
        
       | lowdose wrote:
       | I don think it is really the case but it could be Stonehenge is
       | the result of the first FOMO. Either build or burn on the stones.
        
       | bencollier49 wrote:
       | What I most enjoy about this is that it appears to corroborate
       | historical records of the wizard Merlin.
        
         | adambcn wrote:
         | Yes, legend says Merlin used his magic to move Stonehenge from
         | Ireland to England https://voicesfromthedawn.com/stonehenge/
        
       | ycombigator wrote:
       | Countdown to "War of the Blue Stones" initiated...
        
         | tempodox wrote:
         | Fetching popcorn for Game of Stones...
        
       | bryanrasmussen wrote:
       | wait, wasn't this one of the plots of the original Mary Stewart
       | Merlin books, hmm no on reflection Merlin built a standing stones
       | circle to bury his father Ambrosius Aurelianus, not sure if it
       | was supposed to be at Stonehenge he built it.
        
       | dusted wrote:
       | I read this as "built by whales", immediately thought of the
       | Gojira song and now I'm disappointed.
        
         | Maursault wrote:
         | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ee60DLk0-bU
        
         | usrusr wrote:
         | Stop it! It doesn't help me at all obsercoming my urge to make
         | up some bad joke about how Docker was or wasn't involved in
         | that migration project!
        
         | tabtab wrote:
         | The Prince of Whales: https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-
         | wales-48622001
        
       | INTPenis wrote:
       | How were they able to accurately match a cross section of a stone
       | that's been in the ground for 5000 years and one that's been
       | above ground in the weather for 5000 years? Wouldn't those have
       | wildly different wear and tear on them?
        
         | tim333 wrote:
         | I don't think those sort of stones change shape much even over
         | 5000 years.
        
       | londons_explore wrote:
       | You should always be very suspicious when a team of archeologists
       | with a TV production team finds something new and revolutionary
       | on the exact topic they were making a TV program about...
       | 
       | Seems a bit too convenient!
       | 
       | Especially when the evidence is a muddy hole nearly the same
       | shape and size as a rock 150 miles away...
       | 
       | Oh, and look - it just so happens to be on the only farm you
       | could get permission to dig on!
        
         | Doctor_Fegg wrote:
         | Here's the bona fides of the archaeologist quoted in the
         | article:
         | 
         | https://www.ucl.ac.uk/archaeology/people/mike-parker-pearson...
         | 
         | BA, PhD, FBA, FSA, FSA Scot, MIFA. Professor of British Later
         | Prehistory.
         | 
         | Do I believe him or a random software engineer on HN who thinks
         | it might be "a bit too convenient"? Hmm. Tricky one.
         | 
         | I know a guy who crossed the Channel on a tiny little
         | narrowboat meant for 3ft-deep canals. The entire thing was
         | filmed. The TV programme hammed it up and made it seem like an
         | entirely haphazard endeavour. Of course it was playing to the
         | camera. That doesn't mean he didn't cross the Channel. He did.
        
           | YinglingLight wrote:
           | >Do I believe him or a random software engineer on HN who
           | thinks it might be "a bit too convenient"? Hmm. Tricky one.
           | 
           | One has a vested financial interest, the other is objectively
           | and mostly apathetic. You really believe that one isn't
           | beyond Propagandizing their work if it means paying off the
           | mortgage?
        
           | f430 wrote:
           | > Do I believe him or a random software engineer on HN who
           | thinks it might be "a bit too convenient"?
           | 
           | The pedantry from HN users on topics outside their domain is
           | getting ridiculous now.
           | 
           | The other day they were experts on semiconductor fab
           | processes calling it an "assembly line of blue collar workers
           | at an automotive factory" while someone who worked in this
           | industry corrected them and were downvoted to oblivion.
           | 
           | I don't know where they get this ego from? Maybe they think
           | writing software automatically qualifies them to be a
           | polymath.
           | 
           | Most of them probably googles furiously when they realize
           | their ego is under attack to quote journals or out of context
           | quotes to double down on their ignorant views and "win" the
           | argument. Double points for downvoting the opposition with
           | multiple nicks ;)
        
           | shiftpgdn wrote:
           | Adding a bunch of letters to the end of your name doesn't
           | make you less susceptible to the allure of fame and money. In
           | fact the type of person to add alphabet soup to the end of
           | their name might be even more susceptible!
        
             | fao_ wrote:
             | Uhhh, yes. But only in fields where they are not already an
             | expert.
             | 
             | What you're referring to is Nobel Prize disease, and that
             | is essentially the implicit human assumption that when you
             | become an expert at one thing, you're an expert at
             | everything. However it notably does not happen when someone
             | is an expert at something, because well, they're an expert
             | -- they know enough about the field to separate the wheat
             | from the chaff
             | 
             | https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Nobel_disease
             | 
             | Like the parent says, I'm not sure why you'd rather believe
             | a software engineer on Hacker News -- who unless they are
             | unusual, has zero experience with archeology outside of
             | watching Time Team occasionally -- versus someone who is
             | actually qualified in that field.
             | 
             | This is the kind of thinking that led to the catastrophe
             | that was MetaMed -- software engineers and mathematicians
             | not realising that they needed to _actually learn things_
             | about other fields to be an expert in it (Unlike computer
             | science where you can read a few well-curated blogposts and
             | understand most of the problems in a week), and deciding to
             | go into Medicine with that mindset
             | (https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/MetaMed).
        
               | bpodgursky wrote:
               | Well, the "kind of thinking" that only certified,
               | acronym'd Domain Experts have useful knowledge to
               | contribute about complicated problems has led us down a
               | lot of fun paths in 2020:
               | 
               | - No, definitely no need to worry about this novel virus
               | in China
               | 
               | - No, definitely no need to wear facial covering
               | 
               | - No, definitely no aerosolized transmission
               | 
               | - No, definitely no reason to violate protocol with a
               | 1-dose regimin
               | 
               | - No, definitely no evidence of lab-release accident
               | (TBD)
               | 
               | On each of these problems, attentive and interested non-
               | experts called the correct answer months ahead of expert
               | consensus. If your takeaway from 2020 is not "domain
               | experts are always right, and there's no need for
               | independent research from the outside"... you learned a
               | really bad lesson.
        
               | mikestew wrote:
               | _If your takeaway from 2020 is not "domain experts are
               | always right, and there's no need for independent
               | research from the outside"... you learned a really bad
               | lesson._
               | 
               | That most certainly is _not_ my takeaway, but perhaps you
               | mistyped. What I had reinforced in 2020, however, was
               | that though domain experts occasionally make a bad call
               | (including you, dear reader), I 'd still take their
               | opinion over some random jackass on the Internet spouting
               | off about "yeah, but remember when they told us not to
               | wear masks?"
        
               | fao_ wrote:
               | Most of those were political decisions, not ones made by
               | domain experts.
               | 
               | First, the delay of listening to domain experts (In
               | america, the firing of any teams and staff that were
               | trained in dealing with a pandemic, for example), and the
               | delay in shutting down cross-country transportation as
               | well as the delay in implementing social-distancing, led
               | to the large spread of Coronavirus that is continuing to
               | this day.
               | 
               | Secondly, the reason people were informed not to wear
               | masks initially was because there was a PPE shortage.
               | Part of this was very likely related to the fact that I
               | remember reports of people stealing boxes of masks from
               | hospitals, and people stockpiling masks early on, which
               | led to hospitals that were much less equipped to deal
               | with the spread of it and led to higher deaths of
               | healthcare workers.
               | 
               | The reason Coronavirus got to the stage where it could
               | mutate, at least in Britain, was because the Government
               | instituted a policy of blatantly letting people die and
               | assuming "herd immunity" would take hold, versus actually
               | _listening_ to the domain experts saying that was a
               | shitty idea.
               | 
               | If they had listened to them in the first place, and shut
               | things down early on, the pandemic still wouldn't be
               | going a year later. As you can see in China, Taiwan, etc.
        
               | BurningFrog wrote:
               | > _Most of those were political decisions, not ones made
               | by domain experts._
               | 
               | One thing to think about is when domain experts speak on
               | behalf of political/regulatory organizations, it's the
               | organization making a statement, not the person sharing
               | their honest personal opinions.
        
               | f430 wrote:
               | Likely parent was triggered by GP's comment and is now
               | desperately downplaying expertise as "alphabet soup" and
               | is now downvoting all the comments here
               | 
               | Yes, somebody who sacrificed decades of their life
               | attaining accreditations and studying said area of
               | expertise _clearly_ knows less than a software dev  /s
        
             | danaliv wrote:
             | The Brits absolutely _love_ their post-nominals.
        
             | RicoElectrico wrote:
             | Case in point: Andrew Wakefield of vaccines-cause-autism
             | infamy.
        
               | mhh__ wrote:
               | He was a medical doctor, right? I can't be bothered to
               | argue it in public but I don't really listen to doctors
               | on anything outside what they practice in - they aren't
               | scientists and aren't trained as such.
        
         | DyslexicAtheist wrote:
         | I'd like to think the English stole it like all the other
         | things sitting in London museums. Now put it back to where it
         | was!
        
           | meigwilym wrote:
           | Coal, steel, water - and now this?
        
           | pbhjpbhj wrote:
           | It was the British who stole it, and put it in the British
           | Museum. "Great" British imperialism was common to all areas
           | of GB, and probably of the UK (though Northern Irish history
           | is not in my scope).
           | 
           | Probably safe to argue that one is not from Upper
           | Class/Aristicratic stock to avoid ancestral culpability
           | though.
        
         | gorgoiler wrote:
         | I was sceptical but saw the phrase "peer reviewed" and
         | "journal". Should I un-allay my suspicions?
        
         | kijin wrote:
         | The article doesn't say that the TV crew surreptitiously
         | discovered the hole.
         | 
         | It's just as likely that archeologists unaffiliated with BBC
         | came up with this theory months or even years earlier, wanted
         | funding and a bit of publicity for their pet project, got
         | hooked up with BBC, and scheduled the most important part of
         | the excavation to coincide with the arrival of the TV crew as
         | per the funding agreement. The whole point is to maximize the
         | likelihood that an interesting discovery will take place during
         | filming. NatGeo does this all the time, and I'm sure BBC does,
         | too.
        
           | wswope wrote:
           | I'm finding this whole comment thread a bit hard to read,
           | because this is at least the third Stonehenge special Mike
           | Pearson has done with the BBC at this point, not to mention
           | plenty of appearances on Time Team.
           | 
           | You're pretty spot on - this is a well-known archaeologist
           | with an established record as a television presenter. From
           | what I remember of the previous Stonehenge specials, the
           | filming process appeared to be: academic research team does
           | the excavation for a few months, camera crew comes in when a
           | "big moment" is expected, and also films a rollup where the
           | researchers talk over exciting discoveries made in the past
           | months while they're there. They've been digging near
           | Stonehenge and on associated sites along the river for years
           | and years.
        
           | tim333 wrote:
           | Yeah some info: (from
           | https://www.irishmirror.ie/tv/extraordinary-stonehenge-
           | disco...)
           | 
           | Professor Mike says he had long held the theory that the
           | smaller bluestones which surrounded Stonehenge in a wide
           | circle during its earliest phase, had started life as a
           | monument in Wales.
           | 
           | But finding the site of a stone circle which no longer
           | exists, 5,000 years after it was moved, is no mean feat.
           | 
           | The research started in 2010, with excavations beginning in
           | 2012 but as they years went by they experienced many set-
           | backs involving bronze and iron age circles which weren't
           | what they were looking for.
           | 
           | Mike, 63, did a deal with a TV company to film their progress
           | in 2015.
           | 
           | Two years later, it was a despondent group led by Dave Shaw,
           | who decided to excavate Waun Mawn, an "unpromising" marshy
           | site described as "small and unremarkable" which had turned
           | up nothing in the geophysics surveys.
           | 
           | ... [goes on to describe finding it]
        
           | dmurray wrote:
           | > surreptitiously
           | 
           | serendipitously?
        
             | kijin wrote:
             | Uh, yeah. I wonder what kind of typo triggered an
             | autocorrect into that word...
        
         | joosters wrote:
         | _Oh, and look - it just so happens to be on the only farm you
         | could get permission to dig on!_
         | 
         | This is somewhat tautological - _of course_ archaeologists make
         | discoveries on the sites they are digging on. It 's very hard
         | to make discoveries at sites that you aren't allowed on!
        
           | hanoz wrote:
           | _> It 's very hard to make discoveries at sites that you
           | aren't allowed on!_
           | 
           | Not as hard as it used to be:
           | https://houseprices.io/lidar/SU1025069970
        
             | detritus wrote:
             | I know this is a totally non HN-worthy response, but -
             | 
             | That is a fucking amazing resource, thank you!
             | 
             | I've already found two places of interest to check out next
             | time I go North to my old stomping grounds in the
             | countryside.
             | 
             | Sometimes the future isn't such a terrible place.
        
               | hanoz wrote:
               | I'm very pleased you like it! (tis a side project of
               | mine). Did you try the 3D button? That's quite fun.
        
               | MPSimmons wrote:
               | It's amazing. Could you add a layer to see the "normal"
               | satellite view overlaid?
        
               | hanoz wrote:
               | The source data is based on a different projection to
               | that usually used in web maps so that's not easily
               | achieved unfortunately.
        
               | detritus wrote:
               | Oh! Well done!
               | 
               | Yes, I did try it, as too the three other people I've
               | since shared it with.
               | 
               | I like the point map version too - I've a grab of a
               | 'minecarft-looking version' of my home village -
               | wonderful!
        
               | wizzwizz4 wrote:
               | I can see the lines left by ploughs in fields! Where did
               | you get the data? (Or is there a write-up I've missed the
               | link to?)
        
               | hanoz wrote:
               | I'm not much of a one for write-ups I confess, but
               | broadly:
               | 
               | The raw data comes from the Environment Agency and
               | Natural Resources Wales as .asc files, which are just a
               | big 2d array of height values in text file, in this case
               | covering 1km2 each.
               | 
               | I downloaded all these and wrote a script to produce .png
               | tiles using a "hill shading" algorithm, i.e. make pixel
               | darker if pixel to top left is taller, using C#.
               | 
               | Once I was getting nice results I rented a hefty server
               | at AWS to run it on the whole dataset for 24 hours,
               | generating 2 million .png files, then used leafletjs to
               | display them slippy map style.
               | 
               | I was originally hosting the tiles on AWS but the egress
               | fees were too much so I move them all to a 3EUR/month
               | bare metal arm server at Scaleway.
               | 
               | The 3D stuff re-fetches the raw .asc files from the
               | source agencies on demand using a AWS Lambda script which
               | cuts out the 1km2 of interest and passes it back to the
               | web server, which renders it using three.js for the
               | surface texture mode, or potree for the pointcloud
               | version.
               | 
               | The website itself is built in asp.net core, running on a
               | $10/month box at Digital Ocean.
        
               | eek04_ wrote:
               | That's really fun. Any chance of data for Ireland? As you
               | probably know, "all good things lead to requests for more
               | features".
        
               | detritus wrote:
               | A friend is asking: "When will it be finished?"
               | 
               | By which he means, "When will it be populated with more
               | data?"
               | 
               | I presume he's asking as his particular place of interest
               | won't let him view 3d or pointmap views.
               | 
               | Thanks! x
               | 
               | - ed - reading this back, this sounds rude - sorry, just
               | caught up in the excitement.
        
               | hanoz wrote:
               | The Environment Agency are currently running a programme
               | aiming for full coverage (of England) completing this
               | year. Once that is ready I'll have to regenerate all my
               | map tiles and hopefully have all the remaining gaps
               | filled in then.
               | 
               | Natural Resources Wales is aiming for similar by Winter
               | 2022 apparently.
        
             | adambcn wrote:
             | Is that Avebury?
        
               | mikhailfranco wrote:
               | Yes, here is Stonehenge:
               | 
               | https://houseprices.io/lab/lidar/map?ref=SU11914213
               | 
               | Glastonbury Tor 3D:
               | 
               | https://houseprices.io/lidar/ST5125038630/3d
               | 
               | Maiden Castle:
               | 
               | https://houseprices.io/lab/lidar/map?ref=SY669884
        
               | Mikushi wrote:
               | Correct, you can see Silbury hill as well as a few of the
               | barrows in the area.
        
             | ComputerGuru wrote:
             | Can someone explain the association between the (scammy)
             | domain name and the really cool tool? What's the story
             | behind it? What am I looking at? That's not their data, is
             | it?
        
               | mhh__ wrote:
               | One of the best collection of images of the Chernobyl
               | disaster is hidden away on some marketing companies
               | website. I've lost the link but it just comes up with a
               | list of files as opposed to a bunch of web stuff.
               | 
               | I assume it's some IT guys thing.
        
               | pram wrote:
               | There is literally an explanation on the website:
               | https://houseprices.io/lab/lidar
        
               | hanoz wrote:
               | The parent site is also mine. Believe it or not some
               | people have occasionally said that's cool too, despite
               | the scammy domain name! (It's not _that_ bad is it!?)
               | 
               | The lidar map is kind of a side project within a side
               | project. It's the first and so far only experiment within
               | the 'Lab' section of the parent site
               | (https://houseprices.io/lab) where I had intended to try
               | all manner of stuff with mapping and open data etc.
               | 
               | It didn't exactly grow to be another Google Labs in the
               | end. It did last longer though.
        
               | mrec wrote:
               | The parent site is definitely cool. I'm currently in the
               | position of looking for somewhere cheap to move to and
               | not really having much in the way of geographical
               | constraints, and other UK sites like Rightmove are
               | decidedly unhelpful there - they really want you to
               | commit to an area first. Being able to just pootle around
               | at random zooming hither and yon is nice.
        
               | ComputerGuru wrote:
               | Thanks. Really cool site, great work!
        
             | eridan2 wrote:
             | There is any similar site for France or other European
             | countries?
        
               | disgruntledphd2 wrote:
               | I don't know about this data specifically, but the best
               | thing you can do is lobby for better open data laws. The
               | UK, to be fair, passed laws like this maybe 20 years ago,
               | and as a result there's an amazing amount of free data
               | available for England and Wales (Scotland is normally
               | different).
               | 
               | There's an EU directive supposed to solve this, but it's
               | a slow, slow process.
        
             | Loughla wrote:
             | Holy shit that's amazing.
             | 
             | Is there a thing like this for the US?
        
           | danaliv wrote:
           | Indeed--the archaeologic principle! :)
        
         | simonh wrote:
         | Oh and look there just happen to be several bluestones that
         | geologically match the ones at Stonehenge still on the site,
         | and radiocarbon dating puts the site a few hundred years older
         | than Stonehenge so the timeline happens to line up perfectly.
         | How convenient!
         | 
         | I'm not saying I believe them for sure, but yours is in no way
         | a fair characterisation.
        
           | yread wrote:
           | They haven't used radiocarbon that much, it seems that OSL
           | was more important
        
           | canjobear wrote:
           | How do you radiocarbon-date a rock?
        
             | sandworm101 wrote:
             | You date stuff associated with the rock. Digging tools
             | found under the rock (eg worked antler). Remains of wood
             | that was used to move the stone or line the pits. Remnants
             | of possible associated cooking fires. If you find a deer
             | skull or bit of leather under a large stone, it is safe to
             | say that the two are related in time.
        
           | throwawaylolx wrote:
           | >radiocarbon dating puts the site a few hundred years older
           | than Stonehenge
           | 
           | Is it really that reliable to make such precise statements?
        
             | simonh wrote:
             | Samples at the site were dated to around 3400 BC, which is
             | 400 years earlier than the earliest samples from
             | Stonehenge. Ive not seen the papers, but given standard
             | techniques I expect there should be at least a couple of
             | centuries gap between the error ranges.
        
             | sandworm101 wrote:
             | >>Is it really that reliable to make such precise
             | statements?
             | 
             | Carbon dating is never enough in itself. They are not
             | saying that carbon dating proves that one thing happened
             | before the other. They are saying that carbon dating does
             | not disprove it, that the narrative they propose is not
             | contradicted by carbon evidence. The fact that there are
             | multi-century error bands means it can never be solid
             | proof, but the fact that one error band is centered years
             | later than the other does add weight to their proposed
             | timeline. Carbon dating is a fuzzy telescope, but lack of
             | perfect resolution doesn't mean it cannot produce useful
             | evidence.
        
         | Waterluvian wrote:
         | Regardless of camera crews, I have a perpetual skepticism of
         | entire disciplines, partly because of my own ignorance, I'm
         | sure. But also partly because I have a BS detector and it goes
         | off a lot.
         | 
         | Largely about all these inferences made about history using so
         | few data points and a brilliant imagination. Really? You could
         | tell all these things about this specific household because of
         | a pot you found?
         | 
         | I'm not sure I have a beef with the scientists themselves.
         | There is value in guesstimating what dinosaurs looked like. But
         | at some point these guesstimates get sold as scientific
         | discovery.
        
           | irrational wrote:
           | For me it is primarily fields that deal with humans.
           | Psychology, Sociology, History, Archeology, Anthropology,
           | etc. I take the findings of all of these with a grain of
           | salt. The problem with all of these fields are the people. It
           | is so very hard to know the motivations of people. It is not
           | at all like studying mathematics, physics, etc. where
           | particles don't have any sort of agency, motivation, etc.
        
           | jessaustin wrote:
           | _But at some point these guesstimates get sold as scientific
           | discovery._
           | 
           | First example from TFA:
           | 
           |  _Prof Pearson said the remains of a cow, which was found at
           | the site, suggested animals may have helped to pull the
           | stones to their resting spot in England_
           | 
           | What, they didn't use trucks? A much better indication than
           | "we found a skeleton" for these ancients having used oxen to
           | move stones would be any remains at all of the sorts of yokes
           | and related equipment that allow oxen to pull heavy loads.
           | Cattle are primarily of value for their meat and dairy, so
           | the fact that humans and cattle were merely associated at any
           | particular site certainly doesn't mean what the good
           | professor seems to claim.
        
           | posterboy wrote:
           | > You could tell all these things about this specific
           | household because of a pot you found?
           | 
           | There's a lot of story in history. Construct a narrative
           | stitched together from different sources. Orators in Greece
           | would do the same thing, remember a few lines and improvise
           | the gaps.
        
           | throwaway189262 wrote:
           | Reminds me of the complete skeletons produced using things
           | like jaw fragments. Especially for popular species like
           | dinosaurs and ancient hominids.
           | 
           | Like 20 years ago we didn't even know that most dinosaurs had
           | feathers. Most reconstructions are just wishful thinking IMO
        
             | Hoasi wrote:
             | > Most reconstructions are just wishful thinking IMO
             | 
             | It's true, but you have to start somewhere. That's the
             | beauty of it. It's fine as long as you do it to the best of
             | the current knowledge and tell it.
             | 
             | For fragments of history that are so old, visualization
             | helps put things in context. And if it means you have to
             | erase every reenactment and start over every other year, so
             | be it.
        
           | Cthulhu_ wrote:
           | I kinda feel like they have to, because who funds archeology?
           | If they can earn a living or more money by sensationalizing
           | their discovery and making a documentary about it, more power
           | to them I guess.
        
           | fao_ wrote:
           | > partly because of my own ignorance, I'm sure. But also
           | partly because I have a BS detector and it goes off a lot.
           | 
           | I'm not sure how accurate a bullshit detector can be if you
           | know literally nothing about the field in question.
        
           | tobylane wrote:
           | I agree with you on skepticism. But there's a lot more than
           | just a pot behind theories. The pot is just something they
           | can hold in front of the camera. It's also the ashy layers in
           | the fireplace, the bone pile outside the building, the
           | greater findings at other digs of the same age and culture.
        
             | hanoz wrote:
             | So it's not just some cracked pot theory?
        
             | yvdriess wrote:
             | Exactly, the context in which the object is found is more
             | informative that the object itself. The moment this context
             | is disturbed, e.g. artifacts being pillaged from the site
             | and sold on the black market, the object loses almost all
             | archeological scientific value.
        
       | ljf wrote:
       | Amusingly I sent this to my nephew who lives close to the site in
       | Wales, he responded 'I thought that was common knowledge, it is
       | what people around here have always claimed'
       | 
       | I love the link to Ireland that at first seems incorrect until
       | you learn that this part of what was part of Ireland in the past.
        
         | OJFord wrote:
         | Going by the article linked in this comment:
         | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26112657
         | 
         | It indeed seems more like evidence in favour of a long-held
         | theory.
         | 
         | Also though, as the OP says:
         | 
         | > It is already known that the smaller bluestones that were
         | first used to build Stonehenge were transported from 150 miles
         | (240 km) away in modern-day Pembrokeshire.
         | 
         | > But the new discovery suggests the bluestones from Waun Mawn
         | could have been moved as the ancient people of the Preseli
         | region migrated, even taking their monuments with them, as a
         | sign of their ancestral identity.
         | 
         | I don't live in Wales but have definitely heard that before
         | too, the discovery seems to be about larger ones and that they
         | were previously erected (not just mined) in (what is now)
         | Pembrokeshire. Is it definitely that that he thought to be
         | common knowledge, not just that the stones were taken from the
         | region?
        
           | ljf wrote:
           | I asked him just now and he said he thought it was known that
           | the stones were taken from the stone circle there not just
           | mined there. He hangs out with a lot of alternative types
           | there, who are interested in that sort of thing.
        
             | lovemenot wrote:
             | Ask him for other some common knowledge and filter for what
             | seems surprising to you. Then fact-check those.
             | 
             | Perhaps there's diamonds in the rough. Perhaps not.
        
       | tabtab wrote:
       | "Grog, get your ugly art-work out of our neighborhood now! I
       | lowers our cave resell values and attracts mastodons in heat."
        
       | randomcarbloke wrote:
       | The uninformed have been saying this for years, the truth is
       | those sarsen stones aren't available in Wales, they exist very
       | close to Stonehenge in other parts of Wiltshire, and Oxfordshire
        
         | simonh wrote:
         | The sarsen (sandstone) stones most likely came from West Woods,
         | 15 miles from Stonehenge, but there's no known local geological
         | source for the bluestones though. These do seem to have come
         | from Wales somehow. The varied geological origins of the stones
         | has caused a lot of confusion like this.
        
         | DanBC wrote:
         | Stonehenge has a mix of sarsen stones and blue stones.
         | 
         | The sarsen stones come from Wiltshire. The blue stones come
         | from the Preseli Hills in south west Wales.
        
       | call_me_dana wrote:
       | Anyone interested in the Stonehenge topic should check out the
       | Secrets in Plain Sight documentary.
       | 
       | https://youtu.be/DHhgLnIvuAs
       | 
       | Stonehenge starts at 57:27
        
       | nathias wrote:
       | I wonder how ancient aliens moved it, maybe it was Hitler all
       | along ...
        
       | samizdis wrote:
       | Study cited in the BBC article:
       | 
       |  _The original Stonehenge? A dismantled stone circle in the
       | Preseli Hills of west Wales_
       | 
       | Published online by Cambridge University Press: 12 February 2021
       | 
       | https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/antiquity/article/or...
        
         | notahacker wrote:
         | The actual paper is, as always, less exciting than the breezy
         | PR
         | 
         | TLDR: Three of Stonehenge's stones have long been believed to
         | come from a particular area of Wales. One of them has a
         | pentagonal cross section which was found to approximately
         | matches a pentagonal hole in a partial stone circle in that
         | area, a circle surrounded by a ditch which - coincidentally or
         | otherwise - has the same dimensions as a ditch at Stonehenge.
         | Dating is inconclusive, but evidence supports some of the
         | people cremated at Stonehenge having lived in south Wales for
         | some of their life. It's also established beyond doubt that
         | nearly all the other stones in Stonehenge have no logical
         | connection with this site.
         | 
         | So the builders of Stonehenge might have taken as many as three
         | stones from another site for symbolic or "hey, I know where to
         | find a massive stone the right size for our new project"
         | reasons
        
           | Cthulhu_ wrote:
           | > So the builders of Stonehenge might have taken as many as
           | three stones from another site for symbolic or "hey, I know
           | where to find a massive stone the right size for our new
           | project" reasons
           | 
           | If it's 400 years (and the timeline is up for debate), who
           | knows, it may have been a completely different people /
           | culture that decided to move the stone (vs the ones that
           | built the original circle).
           | 
           | I mean in western Europe, town walls were dismantled for
           | other building projects. Walls that still exist are
           | considered protected cultural heritage nowadays. It's a
           | different point of view that changes over time and as
           | cultures progress.
        
             | wnevets wrote:
             | > mean in western Europe, town walls were dismantled for
             | other building projects.
             | 
             | To further this example the limestone used to clad Egyptian
             | Pyramids were removed to use as materials in other building
             | projects.
        
       | fidrelity wrote:
       | To everybody who is interested in the possible purpose of
       | Stonehenge and other megalithic structures I can recommend this
       | book: Seed of Knowledge, Stone of Plenty (https://www.goodreads.c
       | om/book/show/780619.Seed_of_Knowledge...).
       | 
       | It has nothing to do with ancient aliens and the like and is
       | rather scientific about the electromagnetic properties of such
       | structures.
        
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