[HN Gopher] US Federal judge rules warrantless phone searches of...
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US Federal judge rules warrantless phone searches of anyone at US
border are ok
Author : eldaisfish
Score : 36 points
Date : 2021-02-11 19:40 UTC (3 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.androidauthority.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.androidauthority.com)
| naebother wrote:
| > First Circuit Judge Sandra Lynch presided over the case. In her
| ruling, she wrote that "electronic device searches do not fit
| neatly into other categories of property searches, but the bottom
| line is that basic border searches of electronic devices do not
| involve an intrusive search of a person."
|
| What? No. Judges can just say whatever, huh? There's a reason why
| every phone/laptop has some form of lock on it. Because it would
| be intrusive if someone went inside. Just like a house with a
| lock. You could argue (incorrectly, imo) that we need to perform
| intrusive searches at the border, but you sound like a clown when
| you say it's not intrusive at all.
| nickff wrote:
| Your car has many locks, yet CBP can basically disassemble it
| if they want to. The judge must mean intrusive in the sense of
| a violation of your person (or something to that effect).
| eldaisfish wrote:
| The worst part of this overreach is this:
|
| >"federal regulations give U.S. Customs and Border Protection
| (CBP) authority to operate within 100 miles of any U.S. "external
| boundary."
|
| ... which puts all international airports and their surrounding
| regions up for grabs.
|
| It's only a matter of time before some judge rules that the US
| border extends to pre-clearance areas giving the US powers on
| foreign soil.
| LatteLazy wrote:
| The ACLU says approximately 2/3 of the US population live in
| those areas.
|
| https://www.aclu.org/other/constitution-100-mile-border-zone
| nulbyte wrote:
| > ... which puts all international airports and their
| surrounding regions up for grabs.
|
| International airports are not external boundaries. External
| boundary means land boundary, plus some water.[1]
|
| [1]: https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/8/287.1
| FooHentai wrote:
| Travelling to or through the USA has long been among the most
| hostile experiences faced by international travellers. Even
| places like China it's a more orderly, mundane kind of formality
| and, despite significant language and cultural barriers, less
| alien-feeling than the USA border.
|
| What strikes me as uniquely hostile about the experience going
| through US customs/border is the border workers themselves.
| There's this weird little-man-with-power vibe that I've not found
| at other borders, where there's usually a kind of shared
| understanding that we both just have to get through the process
| and then everyone gets to go on with their day. US border
| attitude is more like 'I'm valiantly defending the greatest
| nation on earth against you, scum'.
|
| I guess all of this rant is to make the point that this
| development is completely unsurprising, and my long-held habit of
| avoiding travel via the USA even if it means a much longer
| duration or higher cost feels further vindicated.
| zaphod12 wrote:
| I've felt that same freaking feeling as a US citizen returning
| to my own country! It's crazy! The customs officials entering
| the Netherlands were cracking jokes with us, the ones entering
| japan were unflinchingly polite and effective. At home I feel
| like I'm a criminal.
| s1artibartfast wrote:
| This is a cultural problem which I believe stems from US police
| and border guard recruiting have a leave from the US arm
| service. Many of these employees our training and have
| experience as in occupying force in a foreign country Where is
| the citizens are at least a threat, if not explicitly the
| enemy. Individuals hired from the arm forces bringing this
| mentality with them and skip spread throughout the
| organizations where they work.
| neither_color wrote:
| I agree that it's rude/hostile but I dont think it's unique.
| I've been to about 20 countries and a certain country-not-
| country, including all the larger Asian ones, and most border
| crossings are benign with guards just barely glancing at your
| passport and waving you through.
|
| The only bad experiences Ive had were in Canada and Australia,
| maybe it's an Anglo thing? In Canada I got asked several times
| if I was really me, where my parents were from since I insisted
| I was American(Hispanic), and asked to show other ID. In
| Australia you dont even talk to the border guard normally, you
| just scan and are let in. However, an agent still came up to me
| while I was collecting bags and took me to another room where
| they went through my stuff and asked a bunch of questions and
| went through my phone also asking if Im really me.
|
| In the US, out of dozens of entries Ive had just one rude
| enough to stand out. Anecdotally east coast airports ask me
| more questions than west coast. So out of my own personal
| experience, having been to Europe, Latin America and Asia, I'd
| say Anglo speaking borders are the worst for me(I wont say
| English-speaking because Singapore's border agents were all
| smiles).
|
| PS- Everything I described is from before covid. Can't believe
| it's been over a year, I barely remember being able to fly
| anywhere every few months...
| rayiner wrote:
| This should be news to no one. The Fourth Amendment prohibits
| "unreasonable searches." Searches at the border for contraband
| and dutiable goods have never been deemed "unreasonable" because
| they're always been considered a routine part of border
| enforcement. One of the very first thing the founders did after
| ratifying the Constitution was to create a customs department for
| performing warrantless border searches.
| rglm wrote:
| Declaring written content as contraband has historically been
| the domain of Eastern Block countries.
|
| This is no different from leafing through a diary or searching
| for counterrevolutionary magazines.
| derbOac wrote:
| If I give that argument the benefit of the doubt, I'm left
| trying to figure out why it bothers me to have CBP look through
| my phone but not through my luggage. I think the issue is what
| sort of contraband or dutiable good might I have on _my phone
| in particular_? I don 't understand what I could possibly be
| bringing into the US, especially as a citizen, on an electronic
| device that wouldn't fall under the scope of a required
| warrant. If I have an invasive species, for example, it seems
| reasonable to search for that because of the imminent threat of
| bringing it into the country. But I don't understand what could
| be on my phone that would justify that kind of search in the
| absence of a warrant or probable cause with regard to my
| situation in particular.
|
| I don't agree with the argument that borders are "twilight
| zones" of territory, because if they were, you'd end up in this
| kind of Zeno's paradox situation, and I think as a practical
| test, you could ask how the US would feel if foreign powers
| just sort of claimed the right to occupy border search zones.
| There probably is some grey area, but once you get to the
| search space, it's not grey anymore as the CBP is asserting
| their authority over it. I think the idea that the border zone
| includes 100 miles around border points speaks to the absurdity
| of the idea that the border is some kind of twilight zone where
| constitutional protections don't apply.
|
| This is one of these decisions that seems to me to fly in the
| face of common sense and reflects some subjective feeling on
| the part of the judge that having CBP look through your phone
| "seems reasonable to them," which to me isn't reasonable at
| all.
| cardiffspaceman wrote:
| Are the searches in your luggage on any flight not bothering
| you?
|
| I agree that phones are different from other possessions.
| TheBill wrote:
| https://basecamp.com/handbook/15-international-travel-guide
|
| Time to start wiping things before you go on trips again.
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(page generated 2021-02-11 23:02 UTC)