[HN Gopher] Launch HN: Chorus Meditation (YC W21) - Meditation f...
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Launch HN: Chorus Meditation (YC W21) - Meditation for Non-
Meditators
Hey everyone! I'm Ali and, together with my co-founders MK, Alex,
and Warren, I'm building Chorus Meditation
(https://chorusmeditation.com/). We provide online group meditation
classes led by trained instructors. MK and I met after we both had
found the benefits of a traditional meditation practice, but only
after much difficulty getting started because it took over 30 days
to feel the benefits and it can often feel isolating and like
nothing is "working." At the time, MK was a top SoulCycle
instructor. She is a master at creating community and motivating
people to be their best through a perfect balance of humor,
approachability, vulnerability, and acceptance. I was an avid
SoulCycle rider and we bonded over our shared love for meditation
and separately, our love for the instantly gratifying and social
experience that SoulCycle had created. She and I decided that if we
could create an experience for the mind that mirrored what
SoulCycle had done for the body, we could help millions of people
just like us. So, we spent months, combining different mindfulness
techniques into a new method, testing out various versions on our
living floors. We tried starting the class with a 3 minute
traditional meditation before moving into the breathing pattern -
no dice - we had promised people non-traditional meditation so when
we hit them with exactly traditional meditation right at the start,
it turned people off. Next we tried getting into the breathing
pattern right off the bat -- still no dice. But we kept at it, and
16 major iterations later, we landed on what is now our Chorus
class. Traditional meditation can be life-changing for those who
stick with it, but the unfortunate truth is that for most people
it's hard to sustain the discipline to stick with it long enough to
unlock the ah-ha moment. Once you cross that threshold you feel its
power, but with Chorus we are trying to help people who struggle
with that onboarding phase cross the threshold more easily. We've
found that one of the main barriers many people run into with
traditional meditation is that they're doing it alone, and they
often feel like nothing is happening. So, we made Chorus 1) social,
with warm, personable teachers and fellow class attendees, 2) fun,
with new and popular music, and 3) designed to give motivating
results in the first session and on-going. For example, the
breathing pattern we use brings more oxygen into the body than
normal inhales and exhales, which causes a tingling sensation,
giving users a quick and satisfying feeling even in the first
session. You can think of the tingles like endorphins in exercise -
they feel good and tell you that _something_ is working - so you
are satisfied and want to come back for more. Everything in Chorus
is designed to motivate you to keep going. Our members pay
$40-a-month to have access to live and pre-recorded classes set to
the beat of popular music like Beyonce, Odesza, Bon Iver, etc, that
help them start their day with a positive mindset or unwind at
night before bed. If you want to give it a try, we just launched a
new class specifically designed to help you sleep --
https://chorusmeditation.com/#book-a-class One of our users, a
mother of young twins, shared: "my first experience unlocked
something in me. Something visceral, and I thought - 'this is so
worth exploring.'" This is exactly the kind of reaction we're going
for. I want to emphasize that we're in no way trying to replace
traditional meditation. We, ourselves, are reverent students of
traditional practices. And we're well aware that we don't have
anything to teach the millennia-old traditions of India and China.
What we are trying to do is bridge the gap for people who find
traditional techniques challenging so that they can avoid the
discouraging feeling of "I'm doing this wrong" and empower them to
develop their own mindfulness practice. Another thing we do to
support our users in the early stages of practice is provide a
community in which they can share their experiences and get
encouragement to keep going. This is one of the more satisfying
aspects for us, because people report their positive experiences as
well as their challenges. We hear from users who report feeling
more calm and focused, or sleeping better, all the way up to
"Chorus has truly transformed my life...I didn't think I would ever
have a relationship with my mom again, and now because of Chorus, I
do." We are building Chorus for our collective community, so I'd
really love to hear this community's feedback. We'd love to hear
from everybody, whether you're a complete meditation skeptic,
someone who's found meditation challenging, or a seasoned meditator
who has achieved total equanimity! We're eager to hear your
experiences and thoughts and feedback! Over to you, HN!
Author : aliabramovitz
Score : 67 points
Date : 2021-02-11 16:25 UTC (6 hours ago)
| schience wrote:
| I love Chorus! I encountered it in the workplace and it blew my
| mind. The holotropic breathing thing makes me slightly
| hallucinate. Which is perfect for a work day.
|
| I think it was a good fit with the move to remote world, having a
| community of people to mediate with - think they have grown a
| ton. I have friends who like that better. Personally I find
| myself a little lazy to show up - giving myself some space for
| that and look forward to in person classes again.
|
| Also love these hackernews comments that seem negative/not
| understanding.. reminds me of the dropbox snark! Strong signal
| ladies, keep it up!
| aliabramovitz wrote:
| Hahah thank you so much! Honestly - we love the discourse too.
|
| We are by no means trying to replace traditional meditation and
| Chorus certainly isnt for everyone. But for people it IS for we
| are frickin thrilled to help them unlock a mindfulness practice
| of their own!
|
| So great to hear about your experience with us back when we
| were in person. We too hope that some day we can have both a
| digital and in-person presence because human connection is so
| important.
|
| I can also relate to the challenge of prioritizing time to do
| it when you dont have somewhere physical to "GO". That ease of
| use is exactly what we are working on in our new app, so would
| love to see if we can help you with our new experience. But
| totally get if you are just an in-person person :) And we send
| you big Chorus hugs and thanks again for the support!!
| tryitnow wrote:
| Are there plans to do in-person classes when that becomes
| permitted?
| aliabramovitz wrote:
| There are! We believe in the power of community connection, so
| when it is safe we have plans to have "studios" in certain
| cities so that our community can come together even more!
| katehiscox wrote:
| I really want to get into breathing work and I'm hearing nothing
| but good about Chorus! I'll be trying it out for sure!
| aliabramovitz wrote:
| We can't wait to have you! If you have any questions or we can
| be helpful - just email me at ali@chorusmeditation.com!
| carapace wrote:
| You folks seem upbeat and sincere, so it pains me to tell you
| this, but having looked into your site I believe you're being
| irresponsible (that's the nicest way I can say it.)
|
| Yours is not the first crew to do this. It's got a bit of a long
| history here in the SF Bay Area, going back at least to Leonard
| Orr in the 1970's, who believed he was on the trail of _physical
| immortality_.[1]
|
| I was looking up Grof's "Holotropic" breathing, but WP now just
| redirects to "Breathwork" which actually lists the big names,
| including W. Reich and Orr:
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breathwork
|
| (It's written by skeptics with the usual obvious BS: E.g.
|
| > Derived from various spiritual and pre-scientific traditions
| from around the world, it was pioneered in the West by Wilhelm
| Reich.
|
| Reich didn't derive anything from any "spiritual and pre-
| scientific traditions". He was a scientific genius, one of
| Freud's contemporaries before he was driven out of Vienna for
| saying folks would be less uptight if they had healthier sex
| lives. His discoveries around what he called "Character Armor"
| have yet to be appreciated in mainstream psychology. He is one of
| the few Western researchers to independently discover "Chi"
| energy. He did some amazing research and then went insane, died
| in prison, and had his papers burned by the FDA. True story.)
|
| Anyway, y'all are just "selling air": teaching folks to
| hyperventilate, to pop music, in their own homes, where they are
| on their own if any adverse effect occur, and then you use that
| as a convincer to get people to give you $40/mo.
|
| I have to side with the skeptics here: you don't know what you're
| doing, the breathing techniques you appear to be teaching _can_
| have adverse side effects, you 're misrepresenting it as some
| sort of intro meditation for beginners (the very people who need
| MORE individual time and attention from their Guru) which it is
| not, and you are putting yourselves in the position of Guru
| without taking on the responsibility or having the qualifications
| (by your own admission.)
|
| This is all bad, and you should probably stop.
|
| [1] He used to say, "Physical immortality: the only cause you
| can't die for!" and "I made my first million dollars selling
| air." For more about Orr and his "Rebirthing" breathwork see: =>
| https://ibfbreathwork.org/7715/ "Tribute to Leonard Orr"
| mwetzler wrote:
| Criticism has its place, and some of your concerns may be
| helpful, but "you don't know what you're doing" and "this is
| all bad" are simply rude judgments.
|
| I don't see the point in accusing the team of "selling air".
| Would you accuse a trainer of "selling movement" or a coach of
| "selling words"??
|
| Breath is a fundamental component of the human experience that
| affects our mood, health, and everyday experience. Learning how
| your breath affects your experience is valuable just like any
| other physical activity (yoga, running, meditation, exercise).
| There is also a spiritual component to introspective practices
| like meditation which can be quite valuable. For some people,
| it's definitely worth paying for these things.
|
| If you're only comfortable with gurus doing this work, what
| would a guru need to be "qualified"?
| aliabramovitz wrote:
| Thank you so much for the honest feedback. There has been some
| great research around the nervous system health benefits of the
| kind of breathing we do (the 3 part breath) in this
| book:https://www.mrjamesnestor.com/breath -- check out the
| section he calls "breathing plus" - essentially what it does is
| stimulate the vagus nerve which allows us to more actively
| control our autonomic nervous system.
|
| We also use other breath techniques like boxed breathing and
| breathing with longer exhales than inhales which calms the
| nervous system: https://www.healthline.com/health/box-
| breathing#tips-for-beg...
| https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-athletes-way/201...
|
| You are completely right that we must take incredibly seriously
| the space we are holding for our community when we engage in
| this practice. All of our teachers are trained by
| professionals, including trauma informed training from
| professionals at UCSF. We always make sure the customer is
| empowered to stay in a zone that feels comfortable to them.
| Additionally, when we breathe in this way we are doing similar
| things to the body as we do with cardio exercise, so it's
| generally totally safe and the physical sensations of the
| breath subside when you stop the pattern. Of course we are not
| doctors so we recommend, in the same way that any gym or
| physical exercise solution does, that you should consult your
| doctor before engaging in cardio vascular work.
| dang wrote:
| Come now, I love that you know about all this stuff and as
| someone who used to order Esalen catalogs as a teenager, I
| share your fascination with it--but this is an extreme stretch.
| These guys aren't doing orgone therapy, rebirthings, or (heaven
| help us) immortality. Also, it's a category error to conflate
| Wilhelm Reich, Leonard Orr, and Stan Grof. Those are three
| completely different figures. Totally agree about the
| fascination of Reich, though--he is unsummarizable.
| aliabramovitz wrote:
| appreciate your comments! (not that we mind the above
| discourse) - but you are totally right that we are doing VERY
| different things from the intense breathwork (e.g.
| rebirthings, Gof, etc) you noted. A big reason we created
| Chorus was because those forms of breathwork were too intense
| for us, and certainly too intense to do more than, say every
| 3 months. So Chorus is a much more approachable and dialed
| down practice that you can do to unlock a daily mindfulness
| habit.
| iafiaf wrote:
| I tried to sign up for the free trial but I don't want enter my
| CC details. Can I just do test a free-trial?
| aliabramovitz wrote:
| Absolutely! Here ya go:
| https://sutrapro.com/chorusmeditation/pricing/checkout/EbHZD...
| metkfd wrote:
| Hey! Cool idea. I'm a total newbie to meditation - any tips for
| setting up your environment, especially for those of us cramped
| in a 1BR? ;)
| aliabramovitz wrote:
| Totally! Here's a couple tips:
|
| >>> WHAT TO BRING >>>
|
| Headphones or external speakers for the music
|
| A cozy blanket!
|
| A journal for some special reflections (only needed for the
| "Chorus" class - not for "Chorus 30" or "Sleep")
|
| Other options > Eye mask or something to cover your eyes > A
| pillow under your knees to support your lower back
|
| >>> HOW TO SET UP >>>
|
| Find a quiet, soft place to LIE DOWN, where you won't be
| disturbed (bed, couch, or yoga mat are great)
|
| Set up where WiFi is strongest (it helps the audio not cut out
| during class)
|
| Settle in a few minutes ahead of time so you can make sure your
| space is comfy and ready for class
|
| >>> Here are a couple videos on what to expect for your first
| class too:
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iyuh0cQjKSU&t=2s
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EUJhfjxvNDE&feature=youtu.be
| carapace wrote:
| Don't charge money.
|
| Put your expenses in a public spreadsheet, accept donations.
|
| I tell you if you do that you will achieve 1000x positive effect
| and you'll become immeasurably wealthy for the rest of your life
| as well, natch.
| aliabramovitz wrote:
| That's actually an amazing idea hahah!!
| FullNameAndy wrote:
| Love what you are building! I'm a huge fan of meditation but
| haven't found one I can keep with. I've tried all the apps but
| fall off after a couple of sessions or weeks. I'm going to sign
| up for the free trial. Do you recommend any classes, preferably
| shorter ones, that I should start with?
| aliabramovitz wrote:
| That is amazing to hear! That is exactly what we are hoping to
| help with. I would recommend starting with our teacher MK. She
| has a 30 minute class this coming Tuesday at 12pm PST. We have
| seen better onboarding experiences when starting with the live
| classes (and we rec at least 2 classes a week). I know 45
| minutes sounds long, but it does go by quickly. The signature
| (longer) class also is really great for new community members
| because we give more of an explanation about what to expect at
| the beginning. If you are up for it, I would recommend starting
| with MK's 1pm PST class tomorrow (Friday)! Let me know how that
| sounds!
| mwetzler wrote:
| I started doing Chorus meditation at Twilio prior to the pandemic
| and let me tell you it was WILD. My first session, I experienced
| a full body high and I was hooked. My mood after these sessions
| was fantastic. I was relaxed, confident, and my perspective felt
| so clear. I let go of all those meetings and tasks that were
| cluttering my day but didn't matter, and thought about the big
| picture.
|
| In some sessions, I found myself weeping, processing grief I
| didn't realize I had been holding onto. In others, I had intense
| visual experiences like sinking to the bottom of the ocean or
| dissolving into the earth, which helped me to let go of things
| outside of my control. In another session, I connected with a
| deep desire to have another child, and decided it was time to do
| that. I would describe my chorus experiences as relaxing, fun,
| important, profound, and psychedelic.
|
| I'm one of those people who found meditation frustrating and "not
| really doing anything", but had a completely different experience
| with Chorus. I was also really skeptical when a friend first
| described Chorus to me. I thought "Isn't listening to loud music
| the opposite of meditation!? That sounds cheesy." I was quickly
| won over. I encourage anyone with even a slight interest to try
| it. If you really lean into the experience and let go of your
| expectations, you might be very surprised at what can happen!
| aliabramovitz wrote:
| Wow oh my gosh! Michelle is that you? Thank you SO much for
| sharing your experience using Chorus. Being a former fellow
| Twillion myself it means so much to me to get to share it with
| the Twilio community.
| mwetzler wrote:
| It is :)
|
| I have recruited several folks to Chorus this year and they
| are finding it quite helpful! My husband in particular has
| had some really intense (in a good way) experiences. A friend
| just reached out to me today to tell me how much he is
| enjoying it, and mentioned he noticed your launch on HN, so I
| wanted to come put in a good word :)
|
| Interesting pattern, the people I've referred who have gotten
| the most out of chorus are/were startup CEOs. I wonder if
| this format is particularly good for people who are
| comfortable in intense environments? Or maybe those who have
| already learned the benefits of an introspection practice? I
| know it helps me show up better as a leader.
| aliabramovitz wrote:
| First of all - thank you for sharing Chorus with people in
| your life!
|
| And that ISSS really interesting. We initially weren't as
| focused on startup CEOS as a core demographic, but since
| being in Y Combinator and seeing how much a bunch of our
| batch mates and finding it helpful we are totally
| rethinking how we can help other founders de-stress and
| navigate the challenging dynamics of starting a company
| more effectively. That's so great to hear that it helps
| with your leadership - I can totally see that. Being more
| empathetic and in touch is such a plus for leadership. I
| think your hypothesis about them being comfortable in
| intense environments AND knowing the importance of
| introspective practices is spot on!
| beaconstudios wrote:
| There's an interesting tension in your proposition - mindfulness
| meditation is at least partially about growing your self-
| awareness (awareness of your internal processes), but social
| situations tend to make some people self-conscious (aware of
| their external presentation). Combine that with up-tempo music
| and I would've thought that kind of environment would make it
| difficult to attain present awareness. Have you run into this as
| a real (rather than theoretical, like in my head!) issue, and if
| so how do you avoid/address it?
|
| Sounds like a great proposition though - anything that bring more
| people into the meditation fold sounds like a positive to me.
| aliabramovitz wrote:
| That is such a thoughtful question - thank you! What we have
| seen is that the upbeat music, because it comes with a very
| strong BEAT give the mind something EVEN more concrete to focus
| on (the beat, the breathing pattern, and the teachers voice all
| serve as the object of attention, like a mantra) - so it does
| in fact make it easier to cultivate presence for people who
| find traditional objects of focus (e.g. "following the feeling
| of the breath") hard to anchor attention on. Regarding the
| social aspect - what we have found is that going through the
| class allows you to connect first to yourself more deeply, and
| then being in that headspace after class opens you up to be
| more connected to the others in the class. For more extroverted
| people that can manifest as sharing with the group about their
| experience - but even for some self proclaimed introverted
| customers we have talked with, they say knowing that they are
| sharing the experience with others and just listening to what
| others say at the end makes them feel less alone in the world.
| beaconstudios wrote:
| Thanks for your response! That's interesting - I suppose the
| beat can form an external point of focus, like trataka/fixed-
| point meditation, investing your focus into one thing so that
| the route to self-awareness is noticing when your attention
| gets pulled off of that subject and onto to something
| internal like a thought or emotion.
|
| I wish you the best of luck!
| aliabramovitz wrote:
| Exactly! Would love your feedback on our product if you
| feel like checking it out!
| beaconstudios wrote:
| I'm afraid I don't think my feedback on the experience
| itself would be very helpful as I'm quite outside your
| target audience - it's not something I'd personally go
| for, having gotten over the hurdle you're addressing
| quite a few years ago.
| aliabramovitz wrote:
| Ah that's wonderful! So glad to hear that. You don't need
| us then :)
| quaffapint wrote:
| As someone who doesn't meditate and would like to get a better
| idea of what you're offering the first thing I looked for is a
| video of what it would be like and couldn't find one.
| aliabramovitz wrote:
| Hey! You're so right and we are working on making a demo
| available on the website - but in the meantime, let me just
| share one we have in our system -- here ya go:
|
| https://docsend.com/view/hxra3rnfevsytg4v
| jabb wrote:
| I like the approach, but find the choice of music and the
| constant speaking of the instructor distressing. Nothing for
| me in this format.
| aliabramovitz wrote:
| That's totally fair. The music style in this early stage is
| geared at people who enjoy this kind of popular music. In
| the future we will be expanding to have different styles of
| music as well. But certainly, we aren't trying to replace
| traditional meditation - so for anyone who is more aligned
| with more traditional meditation music and less verbal
| guidance - I honestly think there are some amazing
| resources already out there. Our hope is that we can
| provide a new style that resonates for people who the more
| traditional sounds and guidance levels don't click for.
| Very much appreciate your honest feedback!
| dmd wrote:
| Same. I was interested based on the promises and
| descriptions; then I watched the demo on docsend and
| immediately realized WOW is this not for me. I wanted to
| strangle the instructor within 30 seconds of hearing their
| voice.
| mwetzler wrote:
| that's what I thought at first too, but tried it anyway and
| it was great _shrug_
| aliabramovitz wrote:
| :) thank you for sharing!! certainly there isn't a one
| size fits all solution for really anything in our world -
| but we are so glad that Chorus is helpful for you!!
| bambax wrote:
| I'm not familiar with meditation; I hear it's all the rage
| but I don't understand the benefits. It is said to "reduce
| stress", but stress is mostly the result of external stimuli.
| It's a symptom, like fever. If you treat the symptom without
| addressing the cause, what good is it?
|
| Meditation sounds like a post-religion religion, but at least
| there was the promise of silence. Now we have loud
| meditation?
|
| To me this video is quite terrifying; it reminds me of some
| kind of megachurch experience, a place where a guy like
| Kenneth Copeland wouldn't look out of place (see the
| intensity firing up around 21:22 and then dropping off at
| 23:24).
| aliabramovitz wrote:
| I love that you are digging even deeper on the problem! We
| say it is to "reduce stress", but that is because that's a
| simplified catchall that many people can relate to. You are
| totally right that stress a symptom. The real underlying
| cause is lack of awareness and peace within one's own self
| - the ability to separate from feelings of stress or
| overwhelm and not let them define you, but look at them
| more objectively and no longer have upsetting things ruin
| your day for example. The music has very strong BEATS,
| which give the mind something EVEN more concrete to focus
| on (the beat, the breathing pattern, and the teachers voice
| all serve as the object of attention, like a mantra) - so
| even though its loud, it does in fact make it easier to
| cultivate focus for people who find traditional objects of
| focus (e.g. "following the feeling of the breath") hard to
| anchor attention on. For anyone who finds silent meditation
| effective, we are so happy for them and they don't really
| need our new approach. What we are trying to do is create a
| new experience that resonates with people who are more
| drawn to upbeat styles so we can help more people unlock
| more peace and happiness.
| mtalantikite wrote:
| > It is said to "reduce stress", but stress is mostly the
| result of external stimuli. It's a symptom, like fever. If
| you treat the symptom without addressing the cause, what
| good is it?
|
| As a long time meditator I agree with you, this is a very
| insightful comment. Unfortunately many of the things sold
| as "meditation" in the west are totally divorced from their
| original intent and are repackaged as stress reduction or
| performance enhancing instead. I find that trend quite
| dangerous.
|
| Meditation (dhyana) is multifaceted and has many different
| traditions, but the major forms all tend to be about mind
| training in order to help the practitioner have some sort
| of realization about the nature of self. What that self is
| is where traditions diverge.
|
| So yes you'd be correct in saying that stress is a symptom
| and focusing solely on these sorts of things is treating a
| symptom. You can certainly become addicted to these stress-
| reducing activities and end up not fundamentally altering
| the root cause. You see it in these western health spaces a
| lot, the people that come in and take intense daily yoga
| classes and keep crashing into depression once the
| endorphin highs go away since they're not focusing on
| treating the fundamental issues.
|
| The path of meditation is hugely beneficial though and is
| not just about symptom treating in traditional lineages.
| dragonwriter wrote:
| > It's a symptom, like fever. If you treat the symptom
| without addressing the cause, what good is it?
|
| _Quite_ good when the symptom is harmful in itself, which
| both fevers that are sufficiently high and stress can very
| much be.
| aliabramovitz wrote:
| Absolutely - as I shared above - stress is totally a
| symptom! Check out my comment above about what the
| underling causes are. And youre so right that the added
| HEALTH benefits of reducing stress (like a fever) are
| huge as well. Here is a doc we have that summarizes how
| cortisol and stress impact the body: https://docs.google.
| com/document/d/1k6QyxX7_btMWUExto_KfESBm...
| marc_io wrote:
| The issue is the use of the word "meditation". It's just an
| "umbrella term". There are literally dozens of techniques
| that use the word "meditation" to describe them. The
| variation is astounding, and some have very little in
| common from a purely external point of view.
| aliabramovitz wrote:
| Absolutely true! We actually have waived a bit on if we
| call ourself meditation or not. Ultimately we are
| currently using it since it helps "context set" for
| people - but would love to hear any other idea if you
| have them!
| andy_ppp wrote:
| I go to your page, cannot find a video of what it is immediately
| and then left. I think a lot of people like a video to show them
| what to expect with most startups these days!
| aliabramovitz wrote:
| Totally agree! We are just starting out so haven't been able to
| get a video on our website yet - but you read my mind cuz we
| are working on that as we speak! Here is a video describing
| "what it is": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iyuh0cQjKSU
|
| and for a demo of the class - here is this one as well:
| https://docsend.com/view/hxra3rnfevsytg4v
| BugsJustFindMe wrote:
| I'm unwilling to give you my email address for a demo.
| aliabramovitz wrote:
| just put in mine: ali@chorusmeditation.com (its a security
| setting for our other documents) - sorry about that
| 0xferruccio wrote:
| Love this I first learned about breathwork from using a
| quantified self product called Gyrosco.pe. Their breathwork
| classes were the main reason I paid 80$/month for the product!
| Love to see a service providing just these classes for half the
| price
| aliabramovitz wrote:
| So great! How was your experience using gyrosco.pe? Would love
| to learn what you loved / didn't love! And yes, only $40 for
| ours!
| porker wrote:
| This looks interesting. I've tried mindfulness and meditation on
| and off for over a decade (mostly mindfulness) and struggle as
| much now to keep focus and not drift into continuing internal
| conversations as I did when I started.
|
| Recently I have realised I have many Attention Deficit Disorder
| traits, and likely have ADD.
|
| What's your experience of meditation and people with ADD? How
| does the practice change for them, and what works best?
| mtalantikite wrote:
| "...and struggle as much now to keep focus and not drift into
| continuing internal conversations as I did when I started."
|
| If you notice that you're having an internal conversation then
| you have awareness and you should rejoice in that! I think too
| often people assume that meditation needs to be a completely
| focused empty mind at all times. Mingyur Rinpoche does a great
| job explaining it (and is a great teacher, would highly
| recommend his courses):
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=thcEuMDWxoI
| aliabramovitz wrote:
| I am SO glad you asked this. Meditation is amazing for people
| who struggle with attention. Essentially what you are doing in
| meditation is training the brain to be able to stay focused on
| one thing and that, just like with any other muscle, makes your
| brain better at this over time. The kind of meditation that is
| the most effective for helping with focus and things like ADD
| is called "Focused Attention." In this kind of meditation you
| focus on an object of focus and dont let you mind drift away.
| In Chorus we do TONS of focused attention techniques.
| Essentially what you want is a "concrete object of attention" -
| so something like a mantra (a phrase you repeat over and over)
| would be more concrete than say, just feeling your breath. We
| designed Chorus to give people super concrete objects to focus
| on so its easier to get into that meditative state.
|
| Since starting to meditate myself I have become way better at
| reading speed, comprehension and overall focus has improved
| dramatically.
|
| Here is a study that talks about it:
| https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/108705470730850...
| WaitWaitWha wrote:
| so far everything (trial, videos, etc.) that you are selling is
| behind sharing something of a PII.
|
| Why? I just want to try the shoes on before buying.
| aliabramovitz wrote:
| heres a trial that you dont need to put any cc info in:
| https://sutrapro.com/chorusmeditation/pricing/checkout/EbHZD...
|
| and for the video on docsend, its not a paid wall - just put in
| your email and you can view:
| https://docsend.com/view/hxra3rnfevsytg4v
| evil-olive wrote:
| The trial still requires full name, email address, and for me
| to create a password.
|
| The docsend video requires an email address, and rejects
| "a@example.com" as fake, so it wants a real email address,
| which implies to me you want to collect it for marketing /
| lead generation purposes.
|
| Is there any reason you can't put a one or two minute
| "example" meditation video on YouTube?
| aliabramovitz wrote:
| Go ahead and just use my email ali@chorusmeditation.com
| (its a security setting for our other documents)
|
| its hard to convey the full vibe in 2 minutes - for a
| couple explanation videos we do have on youtube check out
| these:
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iyuh0cQjKSU&t=28s
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EUJhfjxvNDE&t=1s
| greyskymorning wrote:
| The docsend just nests a public vimeo video. You could
| just post the link to vimeo. By having it through an
| email-required docsend, it seems like chorusmeditation is
| more interested in the pii.
| mtalantikite wrote:
| So is this some sort of hyperventilation breathwork done in
| savasana to pop music? I guess as long as the breath retentions
| aren't super long they should be ok, as long as the practitioner
| doesn't have underlying health issues, but I've seen videos of
| people having mini seizures doing Wim Hof breathing. Just be
| careful with it, there's a reason why pranayama is introduced
| gently and progressively over a long period of time.
|
| Also, I would maybe drop the references to meditation. It seems
| more like breathwork in the tradition of a Stanislav Grof, which
| is totally fine and valid, just maybe misleading for newcomers
| expecting meditation.
| aliabramovitz wrote:
| Super great comments. Our class is split between the breathwork
| and then also traditional Vipassana or Insight style
| meditation. One of the reasons we don't typically describe it
| as "breathwork" is for the reasons you highlight and have been
| raised in other comments regarding how the Gof breathwork is
| supppppper intense. Our method is MUCH more tame and
| approachable - fitting for a daily practice -- vs when I've
| done the Grof style I feel completely wiped (in a good way
| sometimes) but not something Id like to do more than once every
| few months. All to say - we try and stay away from calling it
| breathwork because people either 1) think its Grof and are
| freaked out or 2) think its chill yogic breathing like you do
| through the nostrils in a yoga class and that's misleading too.
| We also have grappled with if we should call it meditation and
| have decided for the time being that yes - it helps people
| context set - and the way we use the breath (which is different
| than the full blown Grof version) together with the beat of
| music and teachers voice is similar to meditation in that you
| have an "object of focus" you train the mind to stay on. Would
| love to hear if you have any ideas for what else to call it -
| cuz we totally have gone back and forth on this topic.
| mtalantikite wrote:
| Yeah, naming is tough! If you're guiding people from
| something that resembles pranayama to eventually dhyana then
| I guess calling it meditation would be fine. I'd just make it
| clear to your students that working with the breath is a
| preliminary practice, to help them to begin to recognize
| awareness. And in particular not to attach to the high that
| comes with exercises like this, chasing sensation. That could
| set them back when they need to learn about samatha, because
| vipassana eventually requires it (see, for example, mahamudra
| teachings).
| marc_io wrote:
| I find it a little problematic when these ancient practices are
| separated from their broader context. There are further, unknown
| implications by doing so. It is similar to what was done with
| what we call "Yoga" here in the west. I am not saying that these
| practices cannot evolve, they must. But they are certainly part
| of a tradition that has been coherently applied and studied for
| centuries.
|
| In my opinion the result of this type of approach is a diluted,
| incomplete practice, focused mainly on symptom relief, which
| tends to forget the heart of the matter.
|
| There is nothing wrong with taking these practices as inspiration
| to help people, and I think your approach is a good way to bring
| them to know more about these practices.
|
| But perhaps you should bring a little more of the
| philosophical/theological side to this modern take on meditation,
| something like what Stephen Batchelor is doing with his Secular
| Buddhism.
| andrei_says_ wrote:
| What we call Yoga in the west is mostly appropriation. The rest
| is misunderstanding because the concept does not fit in
| thinking western minds.
|
| The best we get is what tae bo is to professional boxing.
|
| Source: conversations and experiences with someone who had the
| fortune to study both in New Delhi yoga university and with a
| Yoga lineage in the Himalayas.
|
| The official university still didn't touch, or know, of
| essential elements of the practices. Whether intentionally
| hidden or forgotten, they are completely unheard of in the
| West.
|
| In the west we have Yoga laptops for heavens sake.
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