[HN Gopher] Budgie Is Worth a Try
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       Budgie Is Worth a Try
        
       Author : thastings
       Score  : 63 points
       Date   : 2021-02-11 14:09 UTC (8 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (rentry.co)
 (TXT) w3m dump (rentry.co)
        
       | ktm5j wrote:
       | Every time I try to open this link (on mobile) after a second it
       | redirects me to some sketch porn site..
        
         | LVDOVICVS wrote:
         | Same. Firefox on iOS. However, no problem with Edge on iOS.
        
           | Darmody wrote:
           | Tried to replicate it on Firefox on Android with no luck. I
           | tried with data, wifi, uBlock enabled/disabled, etc.
        
         | wombat-man wrote:
         | that's really interesting. I used to have this problem all the
         | time but I just realized that I haven't really seen the problem
         | on my device in at least a year or so.
        
       | hunterloftis wrote:
       | My setup is a USB-C hub + switch that toggles my
       | monitor/keyboard/mouse/headphones/webcam between my work (MBP)
       | and personal (homemade frankenstein) machines.
       | 
       | Ubuntu Budgie + https://github.com/rbreaves/kinto makes this a
       | great experience by letting me re-use muscle memory (the key left
       | of space + space => global menu; the furthest-left key + arrows
       | => workspace switching).
        
       | kilian wrote:
       | I really wanted to like Budgie but it has so many nits/broken
       | things when I tried it two years ago that I moved away.
       | 
       | The thing that finally got me was that the workspace switcher
       | came with a 300ms timeout before switching workspaces after
       | hitting the shortcut.
        
         | JoshStrobl wrote:
         | I can't really speak to any sort of timeout, but I have since
         | reduced animation timings and tied the "disable animations"
         | option into workspace switching as well (so there is zero
         | transition in it, should you disable animations).
        
         | thastings wrote:
         | I've seen the old Budgie too, it really wasn't good back then.
         | Now it's more or less bug-free, alhough, I personally don't use
         | multiple workspaces, so can't comment on that.
        
         | hunterloftis wrote:
         | This is surprising to hear. I only tried Budgie recently but I
         | found it _more_ responsive and reliable than previous window
         | managers (xfce, mate). This includes workplace switching which
         | I use extensively.
        
       | alpineidyll3 wrote:
       | Like many I needed to replace a very old MBP recently, and wasn't
       | enthusiastic about paying top dollar for developer nag screens
       | and recompiling stuff for a custom processor. I decided to once
       | again try laptop Ubuntu, with an Asus Zephyrus. It's actually
       | working great. Even battery life is good and I have a cuda
       | capable graphics card. I think it's finally the year of desktop
       | Linux ;)
        
         | thastings wrote:
         | Indeed, wink-wink :D
        
       | clircle wrote:
       | I fancy Ubuntu's modified version of Gnome. Budgie looks pretty
       | similar to that.
        
       | pdimitar wrote:
       | I'm pondering installing a graphic interface on my home NAS-like
       | Manjaro server so I can just watch my movies and shows directly
       | through it.
       | 
       | Last time I tried this, XFCE was quite adequate. Not much
       | customisation or anything fancy but I don't need it for a KODI-
       | like machine anyway.
       | 
       | So I wonder: is Budgie a viable candidate? Screenshots around the
       | net look _really_ nice but I 'm skeptical how lightweight is it.
       | For example, can I play 60FPS movies? RAM usage isn't a concern;
       | the server has 32GB of it.
       | 
       | Apologies if all this comes off as a bit naive; I deliberately
       | have mostly avoided Linux desktop so far and I'm now finding
       | myself in a position when I don't know much about it.
        
         | hunterloftis wrote:
         | I just moved my home desktop from Manjaro XFCE -> Ubuntu Budgie
         | and it's _significantly_ snappier.
         | 
         | I don't say "faster" because I didn't do any before/after
         | quantitative benchmarks, but my experience has been that Budgie
         | provides a responsive UI.
        
           | pdimitar wrote:
           | Thank you! Have you used any 60FPS user interfaces or played
           | movies?
        
             | thastings wrote:
             | Actually, I'm using Ubuntu Budgie with a 120 Hz 1080p
             | monitor, it's very responsive. Very much what you would
             | expect these days from any desktop.
        
               | pdimitar wrote:
               | Very valuable feedback. Thank you!
        
       | JoshStrobl wrote:
       | Long time lurker, had to create an account to post about this
       | though. Hey folks!
       | 
       | "Budgie is based on GTK and the GNOME Shell."
       | 
       | To clarify, Budgie is NOT based on GNOME Shell. Budgie uses
       | gnome-settings-daemon, GTK, and Mutter. It's written with GTK, C,
       | and Vala, whereas GNOME Shell is written in C, St, and
       | JavaScript. Budgie 11 isn't going to use any GNOME applications,
       | its settings daemon, or Mutter. May not even use GTK (but rather
       | EFL).
       | 
       | "originally developed for the distro called Solus"
       | 
       | It is still developed _for_ Solus primarily.
       | 
       | "Another nice feature is the extensions that are baked into the
       | Budgie Extras app, shipped together with the desktop."
       | 
       | This is part of the Ubuntu Budgie experience, not Budgie itself.
       | 
       | "These extensions are all developed by the maintainers of the
       | desktop environment, so breakage is not really expected."
       | 
       | As the developer of Budgie, no these are not all developed by the
       | maintainers. Many of them are developed by Ubuntu Budgie, whereas
       | I use and develop on Solus. Breakage is to be expected and has
       | occurred in the past, leading me to have to triage these issues
       | filed against proper upstream rather than Ubuntu Budgie's extras
       | repo.
       | 
       | "One of these extensions is a global menu that works wonderfully,
       | and supports all my applications"
       | 
       | This is not one which is developed by us (Solus).
       | 
       | "The print screen keyboard shortcuts known from GNOME don't work
       | by default"
       | 
       | Works under Solus.
        
         | ragnese wrote:
         | I haven't followed budgie in a couple of years, but the last I
         | understood about it, it might not be technically accurate to
         | say it's based on GNOME *Shell*, but it's absolutely based on
         | GNOME, the desktop stack. Just to clarify your clarification.
         | :)
         | 
         | Budgie can't even comfortably coexist with GNOME Shell on the
         | same OS installation- That's how much it shares with GNOME. If
         | you change your settings in GNOME Shell with the Settings app,
         | it *will* affect your Budgie session.
         | 
         | Maybe you shouldn't say it's "based off of GNOME Shell", but
         | it's probably accurate to say that Budgie is an alternative
         | Shell for GNOME.
         | 
         | Also, I remember a ton of hype for Budgie 11 from years ago
         | already. And that was when Ikey was still smashing out code for
         | the project. I even remember Solus devs at the time saying they
         | might never actually do version 11 because they had fixed and
         | worked around some of the issues that they thought they
         | wouldn't be able to in 10.4(?).
         | 
         | So, is Budgie 11 actually going to happen?
        
           | JoshStrobl wrote:
           | "but it's absolutely based on GNOME, the desktop stack. Just
           | to clarify your clarification. :)"
           | 
           | GNOME Shell is not the same as the rest of the stack.
           | 
           | "Budgie can't even comfortably coexist with GNOME Shell on
           | the same OS installation"
           | 
           | Yes, it absolutely can. You can use GDM and log in to both.
           | 
           | "If you change your settings in GNOME Shell with the Settings
           | app, it _will_ affect your Budgie session. "
           | 
           | It entirely depends on what settings you change. For
           | displays, that generates the mutter related configurations
           | which are used by Budgie because Budgie uses Mutter.
           | Networking is related to NetworkManager and not GNOME.
           | Notifications is something we intentionally hook into for
           | filtering apps in Raven but can trivially be changed, we even
           | have our own set of exclusions. Search doesn't apply to
           | Budgie, that is specific to GNOME Shell. Applications is
           | primarily oriented towards Flatpak. Most of the screen locker
           | functionality isn't related because we use slick-
           | greeter+lightdm+budgie-screensaver (a fork of gnome-
           | screensaver).
           | 
           | Sound can be independently managed, we do that via Raven for
           | example (which ties into Gvc). Power settings leverage a mix
           | of gnome-related settings and upower. Mouse settings are
           | primarily related to libinput. I could go on.
           | 
           | "Maybe you shouldn't say it's "based off of GNOME Shell", but
           | it's probably accurate to say that Budgie is an alternative
           | Shell for GNOME."
           | 
           | Not really. There are many settings we expose which are not
           | related to GNOME or GNOME Shell at all.
           | 
           | "I even remember Solus devs at the time saying they might
           | never actually do version 11 because they had fixed and
           | worked around some of the issues that they thought they
           | wouldn't be able to in 10.4(?)."
           | 
           | Yes and then Ikey, the project founder, let and I took over
           | in late Budgie 10.4 and _my_ first release was Budgie 10.5. I
           | went back and fixed issues that previously were implied to
           | only be fixable in Budgie 11.
           | 
           | "So, is Budgie 11 actually going to happen?"
           | 
           | Yes however it is not a priority over other aspects of Solus
           | development.
        
             | ragnese wrote:
             | >> Budgie can't even comfortably coexist with GNOME Shell
             | on the same OS installation
             | 
             | > Yes, it absolutely can. You can use GDM and log in to
             | both.
             | 
             | >> If you change your settings in GNOME Shell with the
             | Settings app, it will affect your Budgie session.
             | 
             | > It entirely depends on what settings you change. For
             | displays, that generates the mutter related configurations
             | which are used by Budgie because Budgie uses Mutter.
             | Networking is related to NetworkManager and not GNOME.
             | Notifications is something we intentionally hook into for
             | filtering apps in Raven but can trivially be changed, we
             | even have our own set of exclusions. Search doesn't apply
             | to Budgie, that is specific to GNOME Shell. Applications is
             | primarily oriented towards Flatpak. Most of the screen
             | locker functionality isn't related because we use slick-
             | greeter+lightdm+budgie-screensaver (a fork of gnome-
             | screensaver).
             | 
             | > Sound can be independently managed, we do that via Raven
             | for example (which ties into Gvc). Power settings leverage
             | a mix of gnome-related settings and upower. Mouse settings
             | are primarily related to libinput. I could go on.
             | 
             | This is exactly my point. Of course you literally _can_
             | install Budgie and GNOME Shell next to each other. But the
             | very fact that they step on each others ' toes is what I
             | meant when I said "comfortably".
             | 
             | The fact that you basically have to guess what settings
             | will affect the other DE is my point. It also happens to
             | some extent with all DEs- you have to have an intuition for
             | what settings are "system" settings and which are "desktop"
             | settings. But I remember being frustrated in particular
             | that some settings, especially with regard to Mutter,
             | affected the other DE. Neither desktop's settings actually
             | _refer_ to Mutter explicitly, so how is a user supposed to
             | know that changing the window decorations or the double-
             | click-titlebar behavior is going to transfer? I also
             | vaguely remember some settings being exposed in one DE 's
             | settings app, but not the other's, but that setting
             | actually having an effect across both (likely Mutter and
             | Gnome Tweaks, if I had to guess).
             | 
             | I'm just saying- I recommend not running both Budgie and
             | GNOME Shell.
        
         | rkangel wrote:
         | Do I understand from a quick Google that you don't support
         | Wayland (or at least Solus doesn't)? If you're using mutter you
         | should presumably have the core of the capability available I
         | believe?
         | 
         | I use Fedora and one of the big reasons is Wayland. I
         | understand there are some usecases for which it doesn't work
         | well for people and that's exactly why I think it is important
         | to use it as much as possible to help get those ironed out. We
         | need to move on from X.
        
           | JoshStrobl wrote:
           | "Do I understand from a quick Google that you don't support
           | Wayland (or at least Solus doesn't)? If you're using mutter
           | you should presumably have the core of the capability
           | available I believe?"
           | 
           | At this time, we do not support Wayland, that is correct. We
           | leverage a fair few X11-specific APIs and include support for
           | XEmbed-based system tray icons (you would have to pry system
           | tray icons from my cold dead hands :D). Not saying it won't
           | ever be supported, but that wouldn't be addressed until we
           | move to our own window manager at the very least.
        
             | cycloptic wrote:
             | There are numerous serious usability issues with the XEmbed
             | tray icons [0], even if you stay on X11 you will eventually
             | want to switch over to the StatusNotifier API [1]. This is
             | supported by KDE, Ubuntu's Appindicator, and I believe XFCE
             | now too. Thanks for your hard work in Budgie BTW.
             | 
             | [0]: https://blog.martin-graesslin.com/blog/2014/03/system-
             | tray-i...
             | 
             | [1]: https://freedesktop.org/wiki/Specifications/StatusNoti
             | fierIt...
        
         | solarkraft wrote:
         | Budgie looks cool, but I've personally stopped dealing with the
         | unmaintained legacy complexity stuff of X.
         | 
         | What are Budgie's Wayland plans and how are they
         | influencing/influenced by the switch from Mutter? What other
         | reasons are there to switch?
        
         | schmorptron wrote:
         | Hey, this is great insight! I've been thinking about trying
         | solus, and one thing that's great is that it seems to support
         | flatpaks well. Do you think that these types of universal
         | packages will have a large impact on less well known
         | distributions being adopted more in the future as the need to
         | have everything users want packaged for it is reduced
         | significantly?
        
         | thastings wrote:
         | I am sorry about the inaccurate statements made, they have been
         | fixed according to your points. Many thanks to the Budgie and
         | Solus team for the great desktop experience!
        
           | JoshStrobl wrote:
           | Thank you for fixing the items raised, much appreciated!
           | Regardless of what operating system you use Budgie under,
           | glad you are enjoying the desktop experience :)
        
       | corytheboyd wrote:
       | I've been using the Ubuntu Budgie for a few months now to replace
       | an ancient MBP and it's been great. Some minor bugs, but nothing
       | like what others are mentioning (switching between workspace
       | works fine, and is fast)
        
       | birdyrooster wrote:
       | It's a shame that such a beautiful operating system is being
       | paired with that ugly font.
        
       | nightowl_games wrote:
       | I dont like Gnome's defaults. I have the standard GNOME 2 was
       | better mindset. Honestly its the giant app switcher thingy that
       | comes up when you press Super. I just cant stand that. But I
       | wanted the "it just works" aspect of Ubuntu, so I looked around
       | and went with Ubuntu Budgie. I would have gone full solus, but I
       | needed to run Unity3D so I stuck with Ubuntu. I think Budgie is
       | the best looking DE for my tastes. Most things worked great, but
       | I did have a few random problems. I had a bug in Plank where new
       | apps wouldnt show up on it. I gave up on fixing it and switched
       | to Linux Mint. Mint's Cinnamon and Budgie are pretty similar, and
       | Mint just had a few more years of maturity under its belt.
       | 
       | I'm really happy to see Solus continuing development, especially
       | after it's original creator left the project.
       | 
       | I'm very happy with the state of Linux DE's these days. The
       | haters are always gonna hate but Budgie, Pantheon, Cinnamon and
       | MATE are all light years ahead of where we were not long ago. And
       | like other posters have mentioned, we are also witnessing a decay
       | in the quality of MacOS.
       | 
       | Keep up the great work Linux DE developers!
        
         | greyandgreen wrote:
         | Agreed. Most DEs are well designed and work well enough. I just
         | don't like busy UIs. I am now on Gnome on Pop!_OS because the
         | latest Gnome, at least on Pop, seems to stay out of my way. On
         | Fedora or other, there are so many errors that constantly
         | present themselves. Window Maker is what I used for years until
         | I discovered Pop. I may yet install WM on top of Pop.
        
       | ragnese wrote:
       | A couple of people are here mentioning bugs they've encountered,
       | etc. So I'm responding with them in mind (not necessarily arguing
       | with or against them).
       | 
       | I had grown increasingly pessimistic with my personal computing
       | choices. I'm into the philosophy of truly owning and controlling
       | my stuff, so I run free operating systems exclusively on my
       | personal machines, including my phone (to the extent that it's
       | possible with the firmware blobs, etc).
       | 
       | But all Linux desktops are pretty rough around the edges. It
       | really disappointed me that I've never had a Linux machine that
       | just worked perfectly. It was always something- xmodmap would
       | just stop working in Plasma, settings wouldn't stick in Xfce,
       | GNOME's sloppy focus doesn't work consistently, etc.
       | 
       | I started to get bummed out until I've been working on this
       | Macbook Pro for work. The stupid thing can't even keep the
       | background images correct. First of all, you can't just say
       | "Please use this same image/color for all desktop background on
       | all screens." So you set every background to the same thing
       | manually, like some kind of animal. Then you plug your laptop
       | into your two monitors at home and one of them has the default
       | wallpaper! Okay, so you set that one to the image you want.
       | Great. Then you go back to the office and plug into those
       | monitors again and one of THOSE is somehow back to the default
       | wallpaper! It happens every time I plug back into a different set
       | of monitors!
       | 
       | Now I'm not pessimistic anymore! Nothing works. It's great. We're
       | all equal. A trillion dollar company can't even make an OS that
       | sets the wallpaper correctly (or prevent bugs where anyone can
       | login as root, or write a calculator app that works correctly).
       | 
       | So yeah, go give Budgie a try. It probably sucks. But you might
       | find that it sucks in ways that are tolerable!
        
       | yboris wrote:
       | Sorry if off-topic, but I just heard of a mobile-friendly "iPad
       | style OS" called _JingOS_
       | 
       | https://en.jingos.com/
        
       | mythz wrote:
       | Just happened to be checking out Linux Distro's when this came
       | up, here's are some videos of (IMO) the best looking modern ones
       | I've found:
       | 
       | - Zorin Lite (Xfce) - https://youtu.be/NrC0zTqkvbU?t=96
       | 
       | - Deepin (QT) - https://youtu.be/WlB_1kQL0nQ
       | 
       | - Garuda (KDE) - https://youtu.be/KK280Y0cNmQ
       | 
       | - Manjaro (Gnome) - https://youtu.be/N1xem3UdgB8
       | 
       | - Pop! OS (Gnome) - https://youtu.be/HAHLx9RekW4
       | 
       | Did checkout Solus/Budgie which looks nice & minimal but wouldn't
       | exactly consider it a standout.
       | 
       | Haven't used a Linux Desktop as a daily driver for over a decade
       | so haven't been keeping up to date with the state of the Linux
       | Desktop and was surprised to find these fringe distros looking
       | nicer than some of the larger more mainstream ones I used to run.
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | yboris wrote:
         | I read an article raving about how beautiful _Deepin_ is -- so
         | I 'm eager to eventually give it a try:
         | 
         | https://www.forbes.com/sites/jasonevangelho/2018/12/10/meet-...
        
           | gchamonlive wrote:
           | That is from 2018, and at that time I used deepin daily.
           | However, since moving from their compositor to kwin, things
           | started going off rails. I was on and off on their github
           | pages posting and commenting on issues and what I learned is
           | that at that time they had been pushing for solving technical
           | debt in their codebase. But the system overall became so
           | unstable that I was left with a choice of not updating my
           | arch rolling install often or moving to another de.
           | 
           | I chose the latter, moved to KDE and never had any issues
           | anymore. No weird hack to make WiFi work, no update breaking
           | the compositor making me have to hop between compositors.
           | 
           | I mean, that was 2018, things might have stabilized a little.
           | But a year ago a friend of mine, long time fan of deepin
           | moved to KDE too because of these same stability issues.
           | 
           | By all means try it out. But I wouldn't hold my breath.
        
         | sirius87 wrote:
         | Just in case someone's looking for that macOS look and feel
         | with the stability of the Linux Mint Cinnamon [1] desktop
         | environment, here's how - https://youtu.be/DMs7DX3Um9E
         | 
         | [1] https://youtu.be/oFx_aMbN_NY?t=19
        
       | christophilus wrote:
       | I really like Solus and Budgie, but last time I tried it enough
       | things were broken (ex: switching workspaces via keyboard
       | shortcuts) that I moved on. I currently dual boot Pop and
       | Elementary. I particularly like Elementary's terminal and their
       | picture in picture feature. But elementary is getting long in the
       | tooth.
        
         | veddox wrote:
         | I haven't tried Budgie yet. I really like Elementary - a lovely
         | design consistently implemented. Unfortunately (like you said
         | for Budgie), I found it buggy enough that I eventually went
         | back to standard Ubuntu. Might give it another try in a few
         | years.
        
         | thastings wrote:
         | Case in point. Pop really is the pinnacle of GNOME Ubuntu
         | derivatives IMO, I've run it for years. And if it wasn't for
         | the 18.04 base of Elementary, Budgie would've slipped under my
         | radar completely.
        
           | greyandgreen wrote:
           | Agreed. Pop is the distro to beat for daily use for me at
           | least. I've been using Linux as a daily driver since 1998 and
           | until Pop, the only thing I felt comfortable with was Window
           | Maker.
        
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       (page generated 2021-02-11 23:02 UTC)