[HN Gopher] Always Use "Buttons" for Size Selection
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       Always Use "Buttons" for Size Selection
        
       Author : oedmarap
       Score  : 110 points
       Date   : 2021-02-11 12:36 UTC (10 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (baymard.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (baymard.com)
        
       | ehutch79 wrote:
       | I thought buttons were only ever supposed to be used for actions,
       | and it was ux mistake to use them instead of radio selection or
       | dropdown?
        
         | wiml wrote:
         | Semantically, I think the buttons this article talks about are
         | radio-buttons (if exclusive) or checkboxes (if not).
        
         | fbrchps wrote:
         | Are these buttons not for the action of "select this size"?
        
       | CarVac wrote:
       | Using dropdowns instead of radio buttons is a huge pet peeve of
       | mine.
       | 
       | Dropdowns are only appropriate if the quantity of choices is
       | large and the user already knows what the choices are, and then
       | you should be able to type your selection in. This would be
       | things like birth year, country, and state/province.
       | 
       | Otherwise you add extra clicks, extra scrolling, and visual
       | search of a brand-new element that can't be evaluated ahead of
       | time.
        
         | weinzierl wrote:
         | > _Dropdowns are only appropriate if the quantity of choices is
         | large and the user already knows what the choices are, and then
         | you should be able to type your selection in._
         | 
         | Large, but not too large. You might think this is a silly
         | objection and no one can get that one wrong but I actually have
         | an example: I once worked for a company with a six digit number
         | of employees and they introduced a new ticket system for
         | company wide support. This was some years ago and also the
         | transition from a dedicated desktop software to a browser based
         | web UI.
         | 
         | Someone had the idea to make the ticket number selection a drop
         | down, which looked nice in testing and a few hours after
         | production roll out, but the fun ended quickly - with thousands
         | of tickets it was completely unusable within a day.
        
           | CGamesPlay wrote:
           | Concur (an enterprise expense tracking app) used to require
           | you enter the city of the expense you were tracking. It
           | provided you with an alphabetical list of every city they
           | knew about in a dropdown. Haven't used the software in the
           | better part of a decade, so hopefully it's gotten better.
        
         | kevincox wrote:
         | It really bugs me when they use drop downs for numbers. We have
         | a "number" type entry. Use that.
        
           | arielserafini wrote:
           | there are issues with input type="number".
           | 
           | https://technology.blog.gov.uk/2020/02/24/why-the-gov-uk-
           | des...
        
           | vntok wrote:
           | No, do not use that input type. Please have a deep read of
           | sibling commenter's link. Its numerous flaws make input
           | type=number completely inaccessible and therefore almost
           | useless to the very kind of users who would normally benefit
           | the most from simpler & more specialized inputs.
        
         | klyrs wrote:
         | Mobile interfaces are the worst. "Enter your birthday" but the
         | year is a "dropdown list" that you need to scroll from 2021 all
         | the way down to however old you are.
        
         | david422 wrote:
         | I think you've summed it up nicely when dropdowns should be
         | used vs buttons.
        
       | systemvoltage wrote:
       | Just allow me to filter your entire stock list by size. No one
       | does this.
       | 
       | "OMG, this shirt is awesome" followed by "Damn it, it's out of
       | stock", after opening it and has M (Medium) greyed out.
       | 
       | Disappointment pattern, I call it.
        
         | LeanderK wrote:
         | it's possible in germanys zalando. I always do this.
        
         | fbelzile wrote:
         | Along the same lines: if your store has multiple locations,
         | allow me to filter by location. Sometimes I don't care so much
         | about the exact product (think audio cables), I just want to be
         | able to go to the closest store and pick it up.
        
         | nine_k wrote:
         | Showing an attractive item which is currently out of stock
         | would make complete sense, if there'd be an box to put an email
         | and be notified when it's back in stock.
        
         | ch4s3 wrote:
         | Off the top of my head three are a few places that do this:
         | REI, Norse Projects, End Clothing, Mr. Porter, adidas, and a
         | few others. It should be more common though. I wonder if it
         | used to be harder to know at search time if you were OOS on a
         | particular UPC.
        
         | Steltek wrote:
         | That bugs me less than being able to exclude features that I
         | don't want, especially popular ones. I can not think of a
         | single store that allows me to exclude things using the same
         | set of filters.
         | 
         | For example, let's say I want bluetooth-less headphones. Simply
         | selecting "wired" isn't enough as it will show me headphones
         | that support both wired and wireless capabilities. Sometimes I
         | don't want a feature, even a popular one, and it's extremely
         | tedious to wade through results of stuff I will never want.
        
           | sfRattan wrote:
           | I want this feature as badly as you do. In my case, to filter
           | _out_ any smart TVs when shopping for a replacement
           | television. I recognize though, from working in retail and
           | from looking at the front and back ends of the human process
           | (and the front and back ends of POS, ERM, and other software
           | that manages a business ' inventory)... That the world itself
           | will probably never be well ordered enough to support
           | reliable logical operators with accurate results when
           | searching most inventory out there.
           | 
           | You have to nail the software that developers have to write
           | to understand the inventory it's keeping well enough for
           | those operators to work. You have to nail the human process
           | of keeping the inventory itself (and any
           | tagging/categorization in the software) manually up to date.
           | You have to deal with the malincentives of all the people
           | selling product on to you at the distributor level, and how
           | that affects the information they provide with the product.
           | 
           | I wish for consistent, comprehensive logical operators in
           | product search but I just don't see it happening. I think
           | it's an example of a 'wicked problem'[1], and one that
           | someone could probably make a killing solving.
           | 
           | [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wicked_problem
        
         | JulianMorrison wrote:
         | It should save your size in your profile and pre-filter the
         | whole site.
        
         | greggturkington wrote:
         | You can filter the entire stock by size on Amazon
         | https://i.imgur.com/3QGQVZI.png
        
         | nkrisc wrote:
         | This is even worse with shoes or pants online, where you have a
         | large matrix of size by color.
        
         | karaterobot wrote:
         | I'm always astonished by how it's 2021 and Amazon doesn't know
         | my shoe size. Rather, they must know it, they just refuse to
         | use it to help me find shoes.
        
         | genericlogic wrote:
         | This is not an uncommon feature. The word I have used for this
         | is 'facets' (unsure if its correct or not). Look at Gap.com for
         | an example. For example click on "Men > Shop All Styles" then
         | click whatever 'facet' you want on the left.
         | 
         | Of note I was part of the team that helped build this feature
         | over 10 years ago.
        
           | systemvoltage wrote:
           | That's awesome, kudos to you!
           | 
           | I just have a memory of shitty Shopify templates that small
           | clothes manufacturers use. I think its pretty uncommon on
           | small merchants.
        
           | jcampbell1 wrote:
           | Just as an FYI, "shop all styles" excludes categories like
           | jackets. A novel take on the word all.
        
           | wiml wrote:
           | In some markets this is called "parametric search".
        
             | mikepurvis wrote:
             | Digikey and McMaster-Carr are the kings of this.
        
               | RobertKerans wrote:
               | Ah, Digikey is excellent. I've used McMaster-Carr for a
               | while as a reference model when I'm writing
               | catalogue/search UIs, nice to have another one to hand.
        
               | heisenzombie wrote:
               | The product database behind Digikey is much larger but
               | the metadata of lower quality than McMaster. It means
               | that filtering can be very frustrating if the parameter
               | you're filtering on has entries for, say,
               | 1 in         1.0"         25.4mm         1"         1lpi
               | 
               | Another example: If you're buying something like a cable,
               | they have a parameter for "end 1" and "end 2" with each
               | product making an arbitrary choice about which end is
               | which.
               | 
               | I guess my point is that the taxonomy and cleanliness of
               | the product database is just as important as the front-
               | end UI
        
       | aasasd wrote:
       | > _However, some sites have a default preselected size for
       | products -- for example, a 39 x 27 inch poster size selected by
       | default -- which enables users to add a product to the cart
       | without reviewing and selecting the size option at all on the
       | product page. During our eye-tracking study, we observed that
       | several users at AllPosters never even looked at the size drop-
       | down, instead going with whatever size was the default._
       | 
       | Sorta have to question now whether such usability studies show
       | real behavior of people. Because I can't conceive of someone
       | buying a poster and never thinking whether it would fit in the
       | space on the wall. At least if the person isn't drunk.
        
         | Geeflow wrote:
         | I wouldn't be much surprised. The amount of things people do
         | _not_ notice is staggering. When I do usability tests there's
         | almost always something that doesn't get noticed although I
         | thought it obvious and/or important.
         | 
         | Personal anecdote: I managed to buy paper for my printer and
         | only noticed upon arrival that it was the wrong size. The
         | product photo looked right to be. I did not bother to check the
         | details - or even the product title. -\\_(tsu)_/-
         | 
         | Also, regarding "if the person isn't drunk": There's a great
         | short talk called "the user is drunk" which makes one much more
         | sympathetic to such seemingly unexplainable comprehension fails
         | that sometimes drive product designers mad:
         | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r2CbbBLVaPk&feature=emb_titl...
        
       | jhunter1016 wrote:
       | Pretty good research on the same topic from this firm a few years
       | ago: https://baymard.com/blog/drop-down-usability
        
       | CivBase wrote:
       | All of the "bad" examples shown have common issues that are
       | ignored by this article. They use inconsistent styles for their
       | fields (particularly when mixing buttons and dropdowns). They
       | also do not group all fields together as one form. Instead, the
       | size field is presented in some other part of the page, making it
       | difficult for users to navigate through the form.
       | 
       | Meanwhile, the "good" examples all use consistent styles for the
       | fields and group all fields together in the same part of the
       | page.
       | 
       | Dropdowns might be part of the problem, but considering the
       | examples given in this article, I think that problem is being
       | significantly overstated. I would caution against forming any
       | general opinions about dropdowns from just this article.
        
       | ShockedUnicorn wrote:
       | Why does the site need access to my VR headset?
       | 
       | https://i.imgur.com/Tg5G6Ma.png
        
         | kwhitefoot wrote:
         | Site works for me in Firefox with uBlock Origin active and
         | blocking Javascript and remote fonts, doesn't ask for access to
         | anything.
        
           | beervirus wrote:
           | This is the only way to browse the modern web.
        
         | LeonenTheDK wrote:
         | I've been seeing a tonne of VR permission requests lately, and
         | always on the most unassuming sites. Never seems like there's
         | actually any VR content available.
         | 
         | Heck, I haven't even had my VR headset plugged in since
         | Christmas. Does the browser cache that it existed, know there's
         | drivers or some such on your system, or would it be asking
         | regardless?
        
         | Farbklex wrote:
         | It's because they use Vimeo to host the videos and use the
         | embedded player there.
         | 
         | Apparently Vimeo can be played inside the VR headset? I am not
         | sure but I get this message everytime I open any website with
         | an embedded Vimeo player.
        
         | TonyTrapp wrote:
         | Sounds like browser fingerprinting for ad profiles
        
       | bux93 wrote:
       | I'm very unlikely to buy a size that won't fit me or my immediate
       | family members. But somehow, no clothing shop seems to allow you
       | to set up a couple of profiles (women's clothing size M, men's
       | clothing size L) and filter the entire catalogue by default.
       | 
       | I'm reminded of the highstreet, where I've only found one shop
       | that sorts clothes on the rack based on size. I suppose this is
       | to encourage browsing and inquiring if your size is 'in the
       | back', but it's excrutiatingly inefficient.
        
         | Garvey wrote:
         | Yoox.com has exactly this iirc, allows you to set sizes for for
         | shoes, trousers and shirts etc I believe.
        
         | CharlesW wrote:
         | > _But somehow, no clothing shop seems to allow you to set up a
         | couple of profiles (women 's clothing size M, men's clothing
         | size L) and filter the entire catalogue by default._
         | 
         | DXL (a big and tall retailer) allows you to create a "size
         | profile" and then turn on "Shop by your size".
         | 
         | Zappos does something similar in a different way, allowing you
         | to turn on an option to auto-apply size filtering for
         | subsequent searches ("turn on auto-apply for men's size(s): 14,
         | 15, 14.5").
        
         | arkitaip wrote:
         | Of course they know that would be the most same option for
         | customers but when vanity metrics and crash management
         | practices take priority, customer satisfaction usually suffers.
        
       | FriedrichN wrote:
       | This is assuming that whatever you're selling the customer only
       | wants one size, which would be the case for clothing but not for
       | all things.
       | 
       | One case would be lengths of cables or different weights of
       | barbell plates, there the customer would want to buy several of
       | different sizes. In that case all sizes should be visible with
       | inputs for the desired quantities.
        
       | rjmunro wrote:
       | Sizes in online clothing shops should be global persistent
       | settings. If I am shoe size 10, no part of the site should ever
       | show me anything that isn't available in that size.
       | 
       | You could use checkboxes to enable searching for more than one
       | size at the same time, e.g. it might be useful for searching for
       | clothes for my kids, or if I know that I can usually fit more
       | than one size because I'm on the border between 2.
        
         | ojagodzinski wrote:
         | There is something like https://www.esize.me/ where You scan
         | your feet in one shop, upload scan to them and use it on
         | different e-shops like http://eobuwie.pl/. Poland-specific but
         | resolution to Your problem is there ;)
         | 
         | There should be open-sourced service where you can pair your
         | email address + PIN with collection of sizes.
        
       | dukeofdoom wrote:
       | I tried buying a jacket online. Was a little confused when I
       | pressed a L button and it did not register. Took me a while that
       | they sold out of that size. Not that I think about it, not really
       | sure how to best handle that UI situation.
        
         | SamBam wrote:
         | In the design suggested by the article (and also used in places
         | like Amazon) the L button should have been visibly disabled. I
         | think this is pretty clear to most people that it means that
         | size is not available.
         | 
         | It sounds like the issue you encountered was that the styling
         | of the option didn't make it clear that it was disabled.
        
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