[HN Gopher] CSI-MURDER: Prevent WiFi CSI from being used to surv...
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CSI-MURDER: Prevent WiFi CSI from being used to survey environment
Author : adulau
Score : 53 points
Date : 2021-02-07 10:10 UTC (1 days ago)
(HTM) web link (ans.unibs.it)
(TXT) w3m dump (ans.unibs.it)
| lultimouomo wrote:
| The title is editorialized - which makes sense, since the
| original is only "CSI-MURDER" - but it completely mistates the
| content of the page.
|
| CSI-MURDER is a way to prevent localizing people/objects with
| WiFi.
| bjt2n3904 wrote:
| This paper looks really clever, and I'd like to read it. Just a
| thought about something that jumped off the page at me on a once-
| over:
|
| > Imagine someone wants to illegally track the position (and
| implicitely the time spent) by someone into a laboratory [...]
|
| The legality of analyzing WiFi frames is a bit orthogonal to
| this. Analyzing these packets (in my book) is fair game. It's no
| different than youtube-dl -- if you send me the data, you can't
| forbid me from saving it for personal use, or analyzing it.
|
| If you transmit something, and don't want it to be analyzed, the
| data must be end-to-end encrypted. I don't like the idea of
| "protecting" such data with a law that says, "this data is
| illegal to look at".
| anigbrowl wrote:
| As a practical matter (and referencing EU law as this paper
| seems to), you can analyze it all you like but you can't act
| upon it.
| rck wrote:
| It's probably legal in most of the US, but almost certainly
| runs afoul of the GDPR in the EU. Location data is personal
| data, and companies can't (in the EU and maybe CA) and
| shouldn't (everywhere) collect it without your consent. People
| should use crypto because they shouldn't trust the laws to
| work. But that doesn't mean we shouldn't have laws constraining
| personal data collection.
| zamadatix wrote:
| The project claims to achieve this "without hampering the
| communication performance" yet reports (at the very end of the
| paper) of absolutely destroying quality (particularly on RX 1)
| even with only using single spatial stream testing and leaves
| this problem to "The theoretical analysis of the properties of a
| randomizing filter that preserve this property and also obfuscate
| location is part of the future work of our research teams."
|
| I don't think it's that surprising to see you can murder CSI by
| murdering the communication capability CSI was supposed to add,
| any interesting results would seem to come from future research
| if ever.
| Gys wrote:
| It refers to a github repo, but that is non-existing. A murder
| victim?
| kraemate wrote:
| It's in the paper: https://github.com/seemoo-lab/csicloak
| azinman2 wrote:
| Opposite to this project, I'm interested in obtaining CSI from
| cheap devices. But many vendors don't expose this info
| (classically most papers use a very specific intel nic). Is there
| a cheap/popular nic, say usb based that can work with a raspberry
| pi, that exposes it reliably?
| toomuchtodo wrote:
| https://rgu-repository.worktribe.com/preview/966796/FORBES%2...
| mleonhard wrote:
| That is a link to a PDF of this paper:
|
| FORBES, G., MASSIE, S. and CRAW, S. 2020. Wifi-based human
| activity recognition using Raspberry Pi. In Alamaniotis, M.
| and Pan, S. (eds.) Proceedings of Institute of Electrical and
| Electronics Engineers (IEEE) 32nd Tools with artificial
| intelligence international conference 2020 (ICTAI 2020), 9-11
| Nov 2020, [virtual conference]. Piscataway: IEEE [online],
| pages 722-730. Available from:
| https://doi.org/10.1109/ICTAI50040.2020.00115
| toomuchtodo wrote:
| Didn't note the similarities with a cursory glance and saw
| hardware was indicated in the PDF that appeared to meet OPs
| requirements. Sorry about that.
| mleonhard wrote:
| Another way to prevent snooping is to prevent access to the
| signals. Many devices contain metal mesh shielding to absorb
| radio emissions [0]. For example, microwave ovens have a mesh
| window that passes visible light (~500 nm) but not microwave
| heating radiation (~100mm).
|
| How can one insulate a building against RF leakage?
|
| [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electromagnetic_shielding
| myWindoonn wrote:
| It is interesting how this is in tension with our desire to not
| pollute [0]. On one hand, we want to only use as much
| radio/light/etc. as necessary to communicate and live our lives;
| on the other hand, we don't want to be easily isolated from each
| other simply by obviously not having any light around us.
|
| [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radio_spectrum_pollution
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