[HN Gopher] The Awful Reign of the Red Delicious (2014)
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The Awful Reign of the Red Delicious (2014)
Author : Tomte
Score : 44 points
Date : 2021-02-07 15:41 UTC (7 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.theatlantic.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.theatlantic.com)
| throwaway743 wrote:
| Honeycrisp ftw... eating one rn while typing w/ one hand
| briffle wrote:
| Yep, or the brand new cosmic crisp, but the price is rediculou
| s on those right now.
| throwaway743 wrote:
| Damn, really? How much are they going for?
| scns wrote:
| My favourite apple were Elstar. Why past tense? The were small,
| had an amazing rich aroma, a slight hint of acidity and were very
| refreshing. The apples nowadays sold under that name are roughly
| 50% bigger, colours are the same but the taste is like 20% of the
| old ones.
|
| An apt comparison would be the small strawberries you have to
| pick yourself in the woods (or my parents garden) with that
| intense exploding flavour, compared to those tasteless zeppelins
| you can buy in shops.
| dehrmann wrote:
| Farmers' market apples taste a lot better than discount grocery
| store apples of the same variety. I don't know why, and it's
| not everything--potatoes are potatoes.
| jfk13 wrote:
| Potatoes freshly dug from our garden are _very_ different
| from what the discount grocery store sells.
| axaxs wrote:
| Can't agree more. I spent most of my life hating appleas because
| of those damn beautiful Red Delicious. I honestly didn't
| understand how anyone could eat them.
|
| Fast forward to my 30s and reading a random forum post about
| apples, I see people explain how different apples taste, and a
| ton of recommendations for Honeycrisps.
|
| Boy were they right. An actual delicious apple, which was a
| gateway drug of sorts to my current favorite fruit, the Pink
| Lady. Who'd have thunk two similar looking fruits can vary in
| tastes so wildly.
| bondarchuk wrote:
| Basically all fruits and vegetables taste much worse (or, simply,
| much less) than they used to. Is this some kind of weird market
| failure, or is it just the only way to produce this stuff at the
| scale required nowadays?
| etangent wrote:
| It's a failure of "eugenics": aggressive artificial selection
| amplifies trade-offs, and by the time the market picks up on
| the fact that trade-offs exit (in the case of Red Delicious,
| mostly having to do with taste of the fruit), consumer tastes
| shift, and the formerly selected-for traits become very
| unpopular.
| Broken_Hippo wrote:
| Yes... and no.
|
| I mean, fruits and veggies were very, very seasonal, save the
| things we could preserve in different ways. Eggs were seasonal
| as well. Now with shipping and greenhouses, more of us can have
| some of the stuff all year.
|
| But only if it ships well enough.
|
| For a lot of things, we've decided that having the thing is
| better than not. So we get red delicious even where apples
| don't grow, and maybe you can buy local ones in autumn - you
| know, the ones that don't ship well. Some fruits you only get
| frozen or in jams simply because they won't make it to you
| fresh. And so on.
|
| To make things more complicated, things like apples are
| strange: An eating apple is a rarity from seed.
|
| It might also be that your taste buds were more sensitive when
| younger: This is a known thing. It lets you eat a wider variety
| of foods now, as an adult, but can have the effect of not
| liking other things.
| 0xbadcafebee wrote:
| That's kind of what this article is about..... but to answer
| your question: it's a market "success", and it's taste.
|
| People do not buy fruit & veg because it tastes very good, they
| buy it because it exists in a supermarket and looks pretty.
| Flavor is not a major component in choice. If you have 3
| apples, and all 3 taste bland, people will still buy the "best"
| of the 3 bland apples rather than no apple at all.
|
| Fruit/veg found at a supermarket are also bred for industrial
| purpose. They are selected to store well, grow quickly, produce
| in large numbers, resist disease/drought, and be visually
| pleasing. Flavor is a minor consideration, because 99.99999% of
| people will not go out of their way to find a better tasting
| version of the same veg.
|
| If you want tastier fruit/veg, go out of your way to find a
| local varietal, or a local grower of more varieties. There are
| thousands of small farms all over the country that grow a wide
| variety of fruit & veg.
|
| Also, tastes change. The fruit/veg that you prefer may have
| gone out of fashion, so the new stuff doesn't taste as good to
| you.
| woeirua wrote:
| I'm surprised more people don't like Golden delicious apples.
| They tend to get a bit mealy faster than the newer varieties, but
| when they're in season they're nice and crisp, mild, and not too
| sweet. They always put Red Delicious to shame.
| throw0101a wrote:
| I prefer Granny Smith myself:
|
| * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Granny_Smith
|
| Generally anything that's not-soft.
|
| One of the newest varieties is Cosmic Crisp:
|
| * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cosmic_Crisp
|
| * https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-50619281
|
| A whole bunch have come out recently it seems:
|
| * https://newengland.com/today/food/the-best-new-apple-varieti...
|
| * https://www.10best.com/interests/food-culture/types-of-apple...
| greenonions wrote:
| Completely agree. I rarely eat an apple on it's own, and a
| granny smith is crisp and sour, and great for baking.
| m463 wrote:
| I love to eat cold honeycrisps myself.
| 7thaccount wrote:
| My wife entered me into a contest to get cosmic Crisp
| merchandise. They sent me a shirt, dish towel, and a few
| apples. I was already a rabid fan of the apple. It is tart,
| sweet, juicy, doesn't brown even after 24 hours of being cut,
| and is firm enough for baking without being too hard. It is
| like the Honey Crisp, but stores better and has more flavor
| IMO. All hail the Cosmic Crisp.
|
| Seriously though. The Red Delicious is disgusting. When I
| bought my apple trees I asked the nursery employee if anyone
| ever buys the red delicious trees. Apparently some do, so
| perhaps those of us that hate the red delicious do so with a
| passion, while most are just indifferent.
| whatshisface wrote:
| I know someone who likes Red Delicious and buys them
| specifically, over other choices, and not on price.
| Tomte wrote:
| My favorite apples (day to day) are Holsteiner Cox[1] and
| (Schoner aus) Boskoop[2]. And Berlepsch[3], but the latter is
| not easy to get here.
|
| [1] https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holsteiner_Cox
|
| [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belle_de_Boskoop
|
| [3] https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berlepsch
| jbullock35 wrote:
| Where in the U.S. can you get these varieties?
| Jasper_ wrote:
| btw, if you ever thought engineers were terrible about naming
| things, check out Apple cultivars, where you have names like
| SweeTango(tm) [0] and Zestar!(r) [1]
|
| [0] https://sweetango.com/ [1]
| https://mnhardy.umn.edu/varieties/fruit/apples/zestar
| latortuga wrote:
| You make fun but the Sweetango is by far my favorite apple.
| It's better than cosmic crisp IMHO!
|
| I'm sure programming and novel cultivars are not the only
| places where naming is hard.
| exogen wrote:
| Big fan of the Cosmic Crisp, it really does live up to the
| hype! Although, I have a sweet tooth and I might even find it
| _too_ sweet.
| transreal wrote:
| Fujis are the best IMO. They are perfectly crispy and sweet.
| Everytime I try another variety I usually regret it.
| EsotericAlgo wrote:
| Fuji also have one of the most edible cores from a taste
| perspective. Great for an end of hike treat.
| twic wrote:
| Have you tried Braeburn? Fujis always seem like a pale
| imitation of a Braeburn to me. As do Pink Lady, Gala, and Jazz.
| cranekam wrote:
| Braeburns are great when in peak season -- juicy, crisp, not
| at all pappy -- but in the UK at least they're highly
| desirable (edit: I mean they're a staple, not that people
| really crave them) and therefore grown or imported year
| round, despite the fact that for 10 months of the year
| they're mealy, bland spheres of disappointment.
| pony_sheared wrote:
| A Kent Braeburn in season is pure joy. Your description of
| the remaining months, primarily imported, is spot on.
| zxcvbn4038 wrote:
| I've always wondered if there is a way to remove the wax coating
| before eating an apple. It always seemed to me the wax would just
| seal in whatever nastiness was in the Apple when it was coated
| and it would be nice to remove it before eating. Anyone know how
| to do that without baking it or peeling off the skin?
| genericlogic wrote:
| I actually just use dish soap. I do this with the most of my
| fruit/veg. Only takes a few moments and washes right off. Of
| note I do use no scent, fragrance free dish soap.
| UncleSlacky wrote:
| I've used this in the past: https://www.veggie-wash.com
|
| but there seem to be many ways to do it, usually with a
| solution of white vinegar or baking soda:
|
| https://www.healthyfoodhouse.com/how-to-make-homemade-apple-...
|
| https://afarmgirlinthemaking.com/removing-wax-from-fruit-usi...
| zxcvbn4038 wrote:
| Great links! I used to use the veggie-wash stuff but switched
| to soaking in baking soda because it was much cheaper and
| seemed to achieve the same result. The difference is huge for
| me, eating grapes used to cause me headaches and upset my
| stomach if I ate more then a dozen or so, after I started
| soaking them in baking soda I can eat them by the pound
| without issue. I don't know what is on grapes that causes me
| grief but just washing them doesn't get rid of it. I do that
| with everything now except watermelon and bananas. My wife
| likes to candy orange and lemon peels so I do wash and soak
| those.
| jackcosgrove wrote:
| I haven't seen red delicious apples in some time. It's all galas,
| honeycrisps, and fujis where I shop.
| Groxx wrote:
| Same here, and good riddance. Prior to their disappearance they
| weren't even the cheapest apples, gala/fuji had them beat
| pretty regularly, yet they held on for a couple years.
| pvg wrote:
| Previously:
|
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14349964
|
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8300619
| atlgator wrote:
| In high school we used to sell large bags of Washington apples as
| a band fundraiser. We sold so many we got a full truckload
| delivered direct. They were so fresh and flavorful. The fresh bag
| of Red Delicious I ordered were the best apples I've ever had.
| It's not the point of this story, but fruit you get in the
| grocery store, often flash frozen and thawed, has a fraction of
| the flavor it has pulled off the plant. I can't even eat store-
| bought blueberries after picking them fresh in North Carolina.
| bruceb wrote:
| Some comments about Cosmic Crisp in this thread.
|
| Actually there was a legal fight between the Ag tech startup
| Phytelligence who raised nearly $23 million and Washington State
| University over it.
|
| https://www.geekwire.com/2019/agriculture-tech-startup-phyte...
| batterylow wrote:
| At the moment Jazz and Pink Lady are damn good in the UK!
| justincormack wrote:
| Pink Lady come from Australia; Jazz is grown in Europe but may
| well come from New Zealand. Not really local seasonal fruit...
| namdnay wrote:
| You can get Pink Ladies (Cripps Pink) from Italy, France,
| Argentina depending on the season
| arecurrence wrote:
| BC has a variety called Ambrosia that has an absolutely delicious
| bite. My second fav is Honey Crisp and they share some qualities
| albeit Ambrosia does not have a Honey flavour.
|
| Edit: Apparently, Ambrosia are referred to online as having honey
| flavour so my taste beds are failing on that metric :)
| giglamesh wrote:
| Ambrosia apples are also grown in the USA (at least in
| Wisconsin). We bought box this year, along with a box of Snow
| Sweet and a box of Honey Crisp. 11 people (five kids) are
| eating them, and as the boxes start to run out, the Honey
| Crisps are almost gone, with Ambrosia close behind. The Snow
| Sweet is the least popular. I like them all, but my order of
| preference follows that of the our (greater) household.
| interestica wrote:
| Red Delicious gets such a bad rap: I swear you can find good ones
| (in Ontario anyway) that are perfectly sweet and crisp. When
| they're good, they're probably my second favourite behind the
| short-season Red Prince. (Which is currently in season in
| Ontario) The Apple has a weird story behind it too. Discovered in
| the early 90s in the Netherlands. It's only been in Ontario for a
| decade or so (?) And has to be cellared for like half the year to
| get the tartness to a good level.
|
| Also some weird early biz struggles by the company that controls
| the fruit...
|
| https://financialpost.com/commodities/agriculture/the-red-pr...
| (2015)
| overcast wrote:
| Empire is pretty much the perfect every day apple. Super crisp,
| firm(no bruising), tart, sweet, and cheap! Every other apple, and
| I've tried a lot, goes too far down one of those attributes.
| Granny Smith being the exception for baking, and pairing with
| caramel.
| aidenn0 wrote:
| If you can find them, Rome apples are, IMO, _far_ superior for
| baking compared to Granny Smith.
|
| [edit]
|
| I should say this is true if you like a tooth to your baked
| goods. Rome apples are far more firm after being cooked than
| most breeds (some Jonathan crosses are similarly firm after
| cooking IIRC)
| jfk13 wrote:
| Bramley. Nothing more to be said.
| twic wrote:
| I don't think i've tried it; according to these people, Empire
| vs Red Delicious is an east coast/west coast thing:
|
| https://www.orangepippin.com/varieties/apples/empire
|
| But i live in the UK, so i don't see either!
| sv123 wrote:
| Red Delicious: The greatest lie big apple ever told.
| jhawk28 wrote:
| I call them red yuckies. Apples are seasonal. If you can get them
| fresh, the better they are. Apples are also put in cold storage
| which means that the first ones out are the "freshest". People
| also have different tastes. Some prefer sweeter, mellow apples
| (like an envy or gala). Others prefer tart (like granny smith or
| a cosmic crisp). There are so many types that are fun to try.
|
| Kiku, Kanzi, Sweet Tango, Braeburn, Fuji, Ambrosia, Yellow
| Delicious, Lemonade, Mcintosh, Empire, Gala, Envy, Cosmic Crisp,
| Ginger Gold, Honeycrisp, Jazz, Macoun, Opal are all examples of
| good eating apples (in no particular order).
| wrycoder wrote:
| They pick them early, keep them in cold storage, and ripen with
| ethylene gas. The Macs in particular are hard little balls with
| zero flavor.
|
| Go to an orchard that has Courtland apples and try them fresh
| off the tree.
| jcims wrote:
| I'm not entirely sure the red delicious of today is the same
| fruit it was 40 years ago. I _loved_ them as a kid, now they are
| pretty gross. Maybe my taste has evolved, but it doesn't really
| even look like the same fruit i remember.
| hallarempt wrote:
| That's the point of the article: in the quest for ever greater
| redness, the companies dominating apple production bred out the
| taste completely, so now you have mush in a tough, red sack.
| Tomte wrote:
| They generally don't use the same trade name for totally
| different apples.
|
| It's likely the Red Delicious of the old days are genetically
| exactly the same as the Red Delicious of today.
| nuclearnice1 wrote:
| The author seems to believe they changed: "But as genes for
| beauty were favored over those for taste, the skins grew
| tough and bitter around mushy, sugar-soaked flesh."
| Tomte wrote:
| No, the author is not talking about Red Delicious in that
| sentence. The sentence before talks about Red delicious,
| and the sentence you quoted talks about later cultivars.
| nuclearnice1 wrote:
| You sure? I'd love it if it were like you say. I imagine
| a dedication to an authoritative strain. Like champagne
| or parmigiano reggiano. I heard bananas today are
| completely unlike bananas of the past.
|
| Sadly, I'm pretty sure Red D ain't what it used to be.
| The next sentence:
|
| > But as genes for beauty were favored over those for
| taste, the skins grew tough and bitter around mushy,
| sugar-soaked flesh. Still, by the 1980s, the Red
| Delicious made up 75 percent of the crop produced in
| Washington.
| megablast wrote:
| You too have changed in those 49 years.
| dnautics wrote:
| I remember eating red deliciouses about 30 years ago and they
| were terrible, for the exact reasons in the article. It turned
| me off of apples, to this day, I still mostly eat pears, and
| shy away from apples.
| sampo wrote:
| > I'm not entirely sure the red delicious of today is the same
| fruit it was 40 years ago.
|
| You are probably right. 15 new lines (sports) have been
| patented during past 40 years.
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Delicious#Sports_(mutation...
| twic wrote:
| Since we're just naming apples now, in the last few months i have
| really enjoyed Jupiter, Holskin, Golden Melinda, Reveille, and of
| course the mighty Cox:
|
| https://www.orangepippin.com/varieties/apples/coxs-orange-pi...
| eggsmediumrare wrote:
| Do yourself a favour... go to an orchard and pick up some golden
| russets.
| D13Fd wrote:
| "We changed our food product so that it looked better but now it
| tastes bad. Why did everyone stop buying?!? Let's sell it
| overseas."
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(page generated 2021-02-07 23:01 UTC)