[HN Gopher] Neo-mc - a Midnight Commander fork with scripting an...
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       Neo-mc - a Midnight Commander fork with scripting and other
       features
        
       Author : URfejk
       Score  : 125 points
       Date   : 2021-02-07 12:59 UTC (10 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (github.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (github.com)
        
       | sfy wrote:
       | Although MC is great, I really like Ranger, and its somewhat
       | faster sister LF, which is written in Go.
        
       | thom wrote:
       | Missed opportunity to call it Midnight Captain.
        
         | pantalaimon wrote:
         | Neo MC has that cool Hip-Hop vibe though
        
       | Pxtl wrote:
       | I'm pretty new to heavy console-based Linux adminning - I just
       | have a raspbian pi4 I'm using for a bunch of local services
       | around my house, but I've gotten pretty comfy editing files and
       | tweaking services and chmodding/chowning.
       | 
       | However, I refuse to climb the learning cliff of Vi, but nano
       | is... Okay at best?
       | 
       | Is mcedit a good option? I'm still just doing everything from
       | shell and nano.
        
         | dbtc wrote:
         | Maybe try thinking of vi as a programming language (for
         | interacting with text) rather than a text editor. It's really a
         | Human Programming Interface (HPA not API?) which you can run in
         | the line editor of your shell (readline), or in emacs, tmux,
         | even firefox, but of course it works best in vi/vim/nvim.
         | 
         | Learning the vi language makes me think about interacting with
         | computers in a new way.
        
         | ilaksh wrote:
         | I recently discovered 'micro' which is along the lines of nano
         | in a way but more modern and just about perfect for me.
         | 
         | I wish TextAdept had become more popular since I always thought
         | it was a strong choice for a modern editor with solid Lua
         | customization support. But it seems like 'micro' is the popular
         | one. Has 16000 stars on GitHub.
        
         | adamweld wrote:
         | If you're interested in becoming proficient text editing in the
         | shell, I highly recommend just biting the bullet and learning
         | the basics with vim. It's significantly less of a "cliff" than
         | you'd expect. Just spend a few minutes running through the
         | built-in tutorial (vimtutor), learn how to save and open files
         | and move around the document, and set a few defaults in your
         | config.
         | 
         | Only about 30 minutes of effort will be enough to make it much
         | easier to use than nano, in my opinion. Then over time you can
         | learn what makes it powerful, play with mouse control, check
         | out neovim, etc...
        
           | ilaksh wrote:
           | 30 minutes of effort will NOT make vim much easier to use
           | than nano. That's ridiculous.
           | 
           | People, get your mind out of the 1970s and check out the
           | micro editor.
        
           | indigodaddy wrote:
           | Upvoting/seconding this. It doesn't take as much effort/pain
           | as you think it will. Don't believe the FUD. That said, plain
           | old vi on older Solaris systems is still a pain in the ass
           | lol.
        
         | ilaksh wrote:
         | As someone who has wasted like 30 years off and on learning how
         | to edit like it's 1979 in vim, I recommend you do not do get
         | peer-pressured into that. Take a look at micro or TextAdept or
         | use gedit with sshfs or VSCode or.. just something from recent
         | decades.
        
           | weaksauce wrote:
           | you don't need to eschew model editing if you go to something
           | like vscode... there's a great neovim plugin for vscode that
           | gives you full vim in the background but also has a nicer
           | vscode interface for the frontend.
        
             | ilaksh wrote:
             | I just suspect that people who advocate for modal editing
             | and hjkl etc. think that those things are some grand UX
             | secret that only real nerds know about. But really they are
             | just artifacts of that particular historical circumstance.
             | 
             | http://xahlee.info/kbd/keyboard_hardware_and_key_choices.ht
             | m...
             | 
             | "How did vi's mode switching idea came from? Back in 1970s,
             | terminal screen are 80 columns by 24 lines. There's no
             | real-time editing. You edit by typing a command, then call
             | another command to have the screen update to show the
             | result of your command. Vi's "modal editing" is evolved
             | from this. This is also why emacs's manual calls itself
             | "Real Time Display Editor". Emacs is the first or one of
             | the first "Real Time Display" editor.
             | 
             | Why vi uses j k h l for cursor movement? Unix vi's use of j
             | k h i for cursor movement, and the choice of Escape key for
             | mode switching, came from the keyboard it was developed on,
             | the ADM-3A terminal."
        
               | weaksauce wrote:
               | > I just suspect that people who advocate for modal
               | editing and hjkl etc. think that those things are some
               | grand UX secret that only real nerds know about. But
               | really they are just artifacts of that particular
               | historical circumstance.
               | 
               | while it's true that it was born of historical necessity
               | and the decisions for it were partly due to keyboard
               | constraints and the other constraints, I disagree
               | vehemently with the assertion that it's not a more
               | efficient way to edit code. writing a screenplay? maybe
               | not but programming? yes... especially in the context of
               | a larger ide.
        
               | ilaksh wrote:
               | What makes it more efficient? Have there been any
               | studies?
               | 
               | I disagree vehemently with your vehement disagreement. I
               | just don't believe you are really saving that much time.
               | 
               | Again, saying that as someone who has used vim for 30
               | years. Among other editors.
        
           | indigodaddy wrote:
           | Sure, but if someone is trying to get into *nix SA, or even
           | cloudy/devopsy/CI stuff, you really do need to learn vi/m.
        
             | ilaksh wrote:
             | Why? It's just as easy to install micro as it is vim.
             | 
             | sudo apt install micro
             | 
             | or
             | 
             | curl https://getmic.ro | bash
             | 
             | Or just download the binary from github.
        
               | indigodaddy wrote:
               | *nix system administration at many companies means that
               | there are 1000s of RHEL or CentOS or older Solaris
               | servers that you may very often need to edit a file if
               | there is no config management (which is often the case).
               | What all these servers will have to do that will be vi
               | (or vim if you're lucky). In most cases you can't just go
               | install some random other text editor that you happen to
               | like better or be more proficient in. That means you have
               | to be at least somewhat functional in vi to be able to
               | perform basic tasks.
        
               | ilaksh wrote:
               | If you literally have to log into an ssh session on 1000s
               | of machines running discontinued operating systems to
               | manually edit files and can never install new tools for
               | editing or anything else in those machines, then you
               | deserve to go out of business.
        
               | theonemind wrote:
               | In my experience, that's not a real option in large,
               | professional system admin settings. You wouldn't dare do
               | that on a production machine without your change
               | management process, and your team of admins won't care
               | about installing micro on the thousands of machines you
               | have to manage. You'd have to do a pull request to some
               | kind of config management repo, and no one will agree
               | your pet editor merits a deploy, and your boss will think
               | you're wasting everyone's time.
               | 
               | I'm not covering half of it. Trust me, it is just
               | generally not an option for system administration in the
               | large.
        
               | ilaksh wrote:
               | You're right, of course it's impossible for anyone to
               | approve installing a modern editor. How ignorant of me to
               | suggest that. Everyone must use the editor and paradigm
               | from the late 1970s. That's the only way professional
               | system administrators and organizations can operate. No
               | one has time to approve a pull request, no matter how
               | outdated the editor is. We all learned it. Everyone else
               | has to learn it also. Until the end of time. Amen.
        
         | weaksauce wrote:
         | If you think of vim as a language to edit text it becomes a lot
         | easier to remember how to do something... if you just try to
         | memorize a bunch of incantations it will be awful.
         | 
         | for instance in normal mode where you issue commands to edit
         | text(opposed to insert mode which is akin to any other editor
         | where it's mostly just typing information into the document)
         | you can issue something like delete a(round) word and it
         | deletes the word `daw`. or delete inner word `diw`. want to
         | change a word? change d to c and it deletes the word and leaves
         | you in insert mode to type. all of the commands are very
         | composable and form a "language" to edit text that's a lot more
         | approachable than you'd think. one fun one is something like
         | `ci'` or `ci"` which will if you are on a line with an open and
         | closing " or ' will search forward in the line for a " or ' and
         | delete what's inside that and leave you in insert mode to make
         | your edits....
         | 
         | some more fun reading: https://gist.github.com/nifl/1178878
        
         | theonemind wrote:
         | You'll probably save yourself a lot of trouble if you can edit
         | with vi. It's installed everywhere, and editors like nano are
         | really painful without a mouse.
         | 
         | I don't recommend wasting your time getting great with it or
         | anything. Just enough to be able to use it to do anything you
         | could do with nano...but it will be 3x faster and easier on a
         | console instead of using nano if you learn enough to do what
         | you can do with nano with it.
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | coolreader18 wrote:
       | Just something I noticed, the way that "neo" is "spelled" in the
       | README (h[?]o) would be pronounced /heo/, i.e. "heyo" :)
        
       | smlckz wrote:
       | Neomutt, Neovim... and now Neo MC!! Where is the Neo Emacs?
        
         | yjftsjthsd-h wrote:
         | Maybe guile emacs?
        
         | talhah wrote:
         | I doubt Neo Emacs' existence, emacs is very extensible and
         | rather than a separate fork you'd get something like
         | Spacemacs[0] which builds over the default Emacs distribution.
         | 
         | https://www.spacemacs.org
        
         | tarkin2 wrote:
         | And what happens when another dev can't think of a name for
         | their clone? What do they do then? Name it Neoneomc? The dev
         | should have gone down the less-more-most route. Midnight
         | commander, Twilight commander, Dusk commander, Midnight
         | Admiral, Twilight Mutiny... I may give 'mc' a try again. Never
         | bothered before.
        
           | layer8 wrote:
           | > What do they do then? Name it Neoneomc?
           | 
           | ArgoMC, obviously. ;)
        
         | eointierney wrote:
         | https://github.com/remacs/remacs
         | 
         | and yep it's in rust
        
         | kh_hk wrote:
         | https://github.com/emacs-ng/emacs-ng
        
         | mhd wrote:
         | XEmacs is pining for the fjords.
        
       | boboche wrote:
       | I miss diskmasher on ye ol workbench.
        
       | rad_gruchalski wrote:
       | Total commander is the one and only windows app I miss on a mac.
       | I know there are "clones" but none of them comes close to TC.
        
       | BozeWolf wrote:
       | Voting this up, because mc is great and deserves more attention.
       | Sometimes cp/mv/rm or grep just are not sufficient. Mc is great
       | for browsing your filesystem quickly and for example copy partial
       | content of certain directories only. I use it on macos and even
       | on my vps. Using it since windows xp - when i switched to linux
       | from scratch ;-)
       | 
       | That said, i am not sure what this fork adds. I know a lot of mc
       | tricks, i use it a few times a week. But im not a shell, editor,
       | whatever customizer anyways. So not sure if i would miss
       | scripting. I like it if stuff works out of the box, which mc
       | already does!
       | 
       | A few screenshots of those editing features would help. And maybe
       | contribute some of those new features to the main project.
       | Anyways, nice job!
        
         | bayindirh wrote:
         | mc is a wonderful piece of software. We call it morton
         | commander as an inside joke.
         | 
         | When I install a server the first command I run is
         | <package_manager> install screen vim mc
        
         | NotPavlovsDog wrote:
         | Seconded! A double panel file manager is a very convenient
         | concept, strongly suggest those that have not tried it do so!
         | 
         | I mostly use the core feature of organizing files such as
         | downloads, moving from one folder to another; sorting by size,
         | date, etc, for a quick overview. What would your tricks be?
        
           | tux1968 wrote:
           | Not sure if it really qualifies as a trick, but the game
           | changer for me was <ctrl-o>. Being able to pop into and out
           | of MC from the shell, even while in the middle of typing a
           | command is great. It's easy to ignore if the command line
           | suffices, and instantly available when helpful.
        
       | StreamBright wrote:
       | I wish somebody created Volkov Commander for modern computers. I
       | need exactly that much functionality. Just two fixed sized panels
       | (50/50) and the ability to navigate in the folder structure.
       | Nothing else.
        
         | smartmic wrote:
         | I do not know Volkov Commander but have a look at the simple
         | file manager, it basically does exactly what you describe:
         | https://github.com/afify/sfm
        
       | dvfjsdhgfv wrote:
       | For those who enjoy history:
       | 
       | http://www.softpanorama.org/OFM/Paradigm/Ch04/mc.shtml
        
       | mpol wrote:
       | I see this is mostly about the editor MCedit, not the dual-pane
       | filemanager itself.
       | 
       | Does anyone know if the contributors of this fork ever talked to
       | the current maintainers of mc? Since the fork of mc about 10
       | years ago, there has come a lot of new features and bugfixes into
       | mc the filemanager. I would assume they are open for
       | contributions.
       | 
       | Anyone, I really love this Midnight Commander, It is maybe my
       | most important and most used piece of software :)
        
         | lumpa wrote:
         | He also has MC with Python scripting:
         | https://github.com/psprint/mc
         | 
         | Edit: and is submitting at least some code upstream e.g.
         | https://midnight-commander.org/ticket/4160
        
         | smartmic wrote:
         | > Does anyone know if the contributors of this fork ever talked
         | to the current maintainers of mc?
         | 
         | Yes, and there was a kind of dispute about this. The gist of it
         | can be found in this ticket: https://midnight-
         | commander.org/ticket/4187
         | 
         | EDIT: Interesting read also about the pros and cons of Slang2
         | as scripting language, some history and the job of maintaining
         | mc in general ...
        
           | mpol wrote:
           | Interesting read, thank you.
           | 
           | So there is also a plugin system in Lua waiting, it just
           | needs someone to care for it. The S-lang plugin system will
           | not go in mc itself since they prefer to get rid of S-lang
           | alltogether, in favor of ncurses as screen library. This same
           | author had a Python plugin system first, but scrapped it in
           | favor of this S-lang plugin system.
           | 
           | And yes, I can imagine they are looking more for people doing
           | maintenance instead of innovators. They do seem genuine nice
           | guys though.
        
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