[HN Gopher] Even before Covid-19, nightclubs were struggling
___________________________________________________________________
Even before Covid-19, nightclubs were struggling
Author : prostoalex
Score : 70 points
Date : 2021-02-05 16:39 UTC (2 days ago)
(HTM) web link (www.economist.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.economist.com)
| zappo2938 wrote:
| (edit) Nightclubs have often been used for laundering money.
| Changes in how money is laundered because people going cashless
| using credit cards, legalization of the billion dollar pot
| industry, and technology have changed that. Also, there are other
| instruments for laundering money such as high art and real estate
| that compete with nightclubs in the space.
| selimthegrim wrote:
| The thing is (and I live in NOLA at the moment and have for
| years) even though cash bars have been declining the
| alternative scene still self organized - there used to be one
| just down the street from Republic on N Peters (which is not
| the FQ granted) where lots of people would head immediately
| after Decadence for example (I'm being purposefully vague but
| if you know anything about the scene you can determine which I
| mean)
| buggeryorkshire wrote:
| Agree with this - my step-son is 18 and wouldn't even consider
| going to a nightclub regardless of Covid. For his generation it
| seems to be standard to find a house where the parents are away
| for the weekend and invite everybody + their dog down.
|
| Nightclubs aren't even on their radar, which is very different to
| when I was 18.
| closeparen wrote:
| House parties are cheap and don't necessarily require any fake
| IDs, just somebody's older sibling or friend to make the liquor
| store trip. Things shifted towards bars and nightclubs with my
| friends when people got older, started making money, and
| started living among yuppies and even families rather than more
| party-tolerant student housing.
| laurent92 wrote:
| ...Things shifted when we all moved to cities for work,
| international travel, our flats became 30 square meters large
| and we were "unrooted" = not having the social fabric to know
| someone who has a house. Best case, we'd rent something from
| AirBnb for NYE in the mountains. Things stayed in bars until
| we started having our own houses, so between 20 and 35-40...
|
| The problem of "unrooting" (emigrating, being nomad and torn
| from the social fabric) is a serious civilizational issue,
| similar to when workers in XVIIIth were poorer than farmers
| of the same social level, because they had no land if things
| went bad.
| icefo wrote:
| I'm 5 year older and I agree. You can also have a lot more fun
| by mixing board games / (drinking) card games / beer pongs in
| the same party.
|
| It's becoming pretty common to know a few amateur DJs / music
| creators and if you have some decent speakers they happily mix
| for a part of the night. When they're done it's back to DJ
| ipod.
|
| There is also plenty of raves where I live. I feel the
| atmosphere is much more enjoyable there than in night clubs
| TheOtherHobbes wrote:
| 90s clubs grew out of a similar scene. Many started as
| informal house parties, then grew into warehouse parties and
| field raves, and eventually that generated enough money for a
| permanent base and/or an official festival and/or supporting
| merch and other outlets. (Music labels, merch sales, boho
| restaurants and bars...)
|
| There was a real startup-like scene around this in the 90s in
| Europe. You actually need impressive organisational,
| networking, and marketing talent to make a warehouse or field
| rave happen.
|
| The festivals this spawned eventually turned into _gigantic_
| multi-stage events with the latest audio, VJ, laser, and
| other tech.
|
| Unless Covid restrictions become permanent, I'd expect a
| similar cycle to repeat, although perhaps with different
| properties. (Empty shopping malls? Maybe even empty office
| blocks?)
| izacus wrote:
| But that might just be because there he's in a different
| subculture. The clubbers were never the majority of population
| and there was also always a "bar crowd", "park drinking crowd"
| (not so much in US I guess), "home party crowd", etc. etc.
| randycupertino wrote:
| When I was 15 I had a fake ID to go to the 18 & Over nights at
| the local beach club.
| kgc wrote:
| I suspect it's because an entire AirBnB can be had for 1/10th the
| price of a table.
| draugadrotten wrote:
| This is certainly my experience from Eastern Europe. A few
| party hungry people hires one of the "hollywood director style"
| villas for a few thousand for the night, and have a one-night
| ad hoc club there. This is even more common now during Corona
| for obvious reasons. Hey, even the EU parliament members does
| it. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-55174210
| finiteseries wrote:
| The article is available here: https://outline.com/VuhFpq
| neonate wrote:
| https://archive.is/clhiI
| dehrmann wrote:
| To quote Lorde,
|
| > I'm kind of over gettin' told to throw my hands up in the air
|
| > So there
|
| Personally, I don't like white boy shuffling and yelling into
| someone's ear to have a "conversation" enough to justify the club
| experience, never mind the overpriced drinks. I guess the people
| who really like the music and dancing have moved on to the rave
| scene.
| macspoofing wrote:
| Even back in my day, nightclubs had a high turnover. It seemed
| the lifespan of nightclub was around 5 years before they closed
| down, only to be replaced by another to repeat the cycle.
| randomopining wrote:
| They're just gonna die and then new capital (obv there's a lot
| right now) is gonna come in and buy a ready to go venue for under
| prior market rates. Then prob hire some of the same people and
| start it again under a different name and or vibe.
| hollowcelery wrote:
| I feel like there are at least two very distinct notions of
| "nightclub" (not counting gay clubs), and in online discussions
| people generally talk past each other without realising they're
| referring to very different things. I see this happening already
| in this comment section - the clubs some of you are talking about
| have nothing to do with the ones being discussed in the article.
| Let me quickly list the attributes of the two main categories of
| club:
|
| 1) Dressing up in a button-down or a suit or a dress and high
| heels. Sitting down at tables around $300 bottles of Grey Goose.
| Pop music, hip-hop, electrohouse. Crowd is mostly straight, most
| attendees are there with the intention of meeting a sexual
| partner. You stay for 1-3 hours, mostly talk and get wasted and
| dance a bit.
|
| 2) Dressing in casual clothing or streetwear-oriented fashion
| with comfortable shoes for dancing. Few or no tables - the
| dancefloor is the primary attraction. More drugs than drinks.
| Crowd skews alternative with strong LGBT presence. People are
| there for the music, which is generally repetitive electronic
| music, house or techno or DnB etc. You stay for 3-8 hours, mostly
| dancing and talking to friends, drinking but probably not getting
| drunk.
|
| This article is mostly discussing the second category, but I'm
| not sure how familiar American readers will be with this style of
| club - my understanding is that it's primarily a European
| phenomenon, with outshoots in some key non-European cities (NYC,
| Detroit, Sao Paulo, Tokyo to name a few). These clubs are closer
| in concept to American raves, except at dedicated club venues.
| These spaces have historically been incredibly important for
| minority communities (queer, black, latino) also for musicians.
| They foster the cutting-edge of underground electronic music,
| which eventually filters down to shape the next generation of
| radio pop. Berghain, the club mentioned at the start of the
| article, is the prototypical example of such a venue.
|
| I don't care for the first category of clubs and I don't attend
| them, but it would be a huge loss to culture if the second style
| of club disappears. It was already struggling pre-Covid, with
| many clubs in London doubling as event spaces or art spaces
| during the day in order to raise more money.
| WalterBright wrote:
| I love the nightclubs one sees in movies from the 1930's. Too
| bad I've never seen one in real life.
| [deleted]
| scsilver wrote:
| Denver was going pretty strong with your Type2 club the last
| few years, as someone whos done the Euroclub experience a(from
| Zurich to Barcelona, to Paris and London) the house and techno
| scene was working its way towards building a really awesome
| nightlife (lounge hangs on weekdays to clubs at night and
| warehouses for the after on weekends). Covid crushed it, but I
| think the internationalization of underground EDM is really
| pushing hard with the millennials and am excited to see what
| the next decade can bring as governments loosen their ties and
| find ways to allow even formerly "alt" attractions.
| LeanderK wrote:
| what about the mandatory closing hours in denver? I was very
| surprised that the US has so early closing hours (isn't it
| all about freedom over there?).
| scsilver wrote:
| 2 am the bars let out, however, the afters are private
| events and tend to be in the warehouse or events space
| district. These afters are like 100 people at most and have
| a pretty intimate vibe, you can find them on facebook
| groups, asking around at the club or less often through
| Resident Advisor.
|
| Remember the bedrock of american social and legal culture
| is uptight religious british emigrants.
| TylerE wrote:
| That's state by state, and can vary.
|
| For instance, in Alabama of all places, private members
| only clubs can serve as late as they want.
|
| I knew of one dive bar/rock club where membership we
| $5/yr. they stayed open until 3am most nights, and would
| stay open 24hrs from Thiraday down to around noon on
| Monday
| fleaaa wrote:
| I hate to say that the scene #2 in Berlin is completely nuked
| (big ones are relatively okay like the one you mentioned)but
| the small beloved venues are almost all gone which is bread and
| butter for the scene. If they aren't, don't think they'll
| survive till the end of 2022 it seems like, unfortunately.
|
| There gotta be something to survive but I don't see any yet..
| It'll be very interesting to see how scene changed after this
| era.
| andruby wrote:
| Some will die and others will replace them, perhaps with a
| lull in time in between.
|
| Unless something fundamentally changes in the way we
| "celebrate" culture. Which might be the case.
|
| I think those clubs and new music genre's are driven by
| youngsters. If new generations of youth don't feel the need
| to get together and celebrate certain musical quirks
| together, then perhaps the nightclub/rave format will become
| a relic. Maybe they'll find other ways to find each other
| (online, vr, I'm not a prophet).
|
| I had fun organizing (deep) house parties in a European city
| in small venues while growing up :) We didn't earn money, but
| damn it was fun!
| pimeys wrote:
| I'm going to miss ://about blank and the beloved queer
| parties there so much. I spent my 20's in these and got so
| many friends and partners. Great music, free people and
| superb location. The party never ended.
|
| When the pandemic is over, we have Berghain left and what
| else?
| jaynetics wrote:
| Do you have a source for this? To me it always seemed the
| people running the best parties weren't making a lot of money
| anyway, just enough to rent some decrepit building and a few
| speakers. This gave me hope that they'd just start again,
| some time in the far future, when they can get a crowd in
| that pays the bills.
|
| Obviously many of the more institutionalized, mid-sized
| venues will be heavily affected - on the other hand, there is
| less need for office space right now, so I don't think
| everything will be rented out soon.
| llampx wrote:
| The real estate scene in Berlin is very different now than
| it used to be. It was possible to rent a cheap place or
| just squat an unoccupied building, which is not possible
| anymore. Real estate prices have gone through the roof in
| the last 10 years.
|
| I'm not sure how the new nightclub scene will look like,
| but I'm sure entry will cost money.
| neuronic wrote:
| When I used to go clubbing in Munich entry was anywhere
| between 5EUR and 20EUR (with 10EUR usually being the
| sweet spot cost-quality wise). Dress-code in most venues.
| This was around 2006-2008. Berlin at the time was
| considered cheap/left/alternative. Hamburg has always
| been dominated by no dress code, much fewer entry fees
| (with exceptions).
|
| I wonder how Reeperbahn will do after Corona. It's
| already changed from mostly local private establishments
| to more and more corporate fuckery. If there is one thing
| people in St. Pauli hate it's corporate fuckery.
| paganel wrote:
| Good run-down of the two types of clubs. To add an European
| additional view on this (mine), I'd say that in my city
| (Bucharest) the second type of clubs was still ahead of the
| first type of clubs pre-pandemic, even though both were on
| their way down. Bucharest is (semi-)famous in the Electronic
| Dance music scene for its minimal style [1], but the club scene
| had become less and less important compared to dedicated
| festivals like Sunwaves[2], for example.
|
| [1] https://www.beatportal.com/features/minimal-techno-
| romanian-...
|
| [2] https://sunwaves-fest.ro/
| alexashka wrote:
| > ... it would be a huge loss to culture if the second style of
| club disappears
|
| The 'second type' never disappears, it'll always keep going,
| because you can't make starving artist types disappear - they
| are already willing to be marginalized by the rest of society.
|
| The particular groups and venues you are familiar with will
| disappear, but they always get replaced by a younger
| generation's thirst for self expression and community, willing
| to eat the shit sandwich of the starving artist lifestyle.
|
| Don't worry, some people live to eat and breed, some people
| live to do their quirky thing and one of the quirky things some
| people just can't get enough of is music.
| neuronic wrote:
| Starving artists also have to pay rent and are usually not
| the ones running those clubs.
| randomopining wrote:
| They're just gonna die and then new capital (obv there's a lot
| right now) is gonna come in and buy a ready to go venue for
| under prior market rates. Then prob hire some of the same
| people and start it again under a different name and or vibe.
| nicoburns wrote:
| > Then prob hire some of the same people and start it again
| under a different name and or vibe.
|
| Unfortunately it's much more likely the new capital will
| close it and turn it into flats.
| lumost wrote:
| more likely a bank
| randomopining wrote:
| Prob not, for most of the good spots in Brooklyn. Too far
| out of the way to matter.
| _trampeltier wrote:
| Jup, and most important, after that is no noise at night. I
| now from a bar owner I know, the fight because of the noise
| outside is so hard and depressing. Even the bar is there
| since over 20 years (and is much less noisy than years ago)
| there are more and more complaints.
| evanelias wrote:
| > This article is mostly discussing the second category, but
| I'm not sure how familiar American readers will be with this
| style of club [...] closer in concept to American raves, except
| at dedicated club venues.
|
| You're not wrong, especially since electronic music has always
| been more underground/niche in the US, relative to Europe.
|
| But despite that, this type of club was not uncommon in US
| cities, especially from the late '90s to mid '00s. For
| underground dance music (house, techno, dnb, etc) there was a
| nice mix of dedicated dance music venues, weekly/monthly nights
| at other venues, and a bunch of unlicensed/warehouse spaces as
| well.
|
| This wasn't just in the largest cities either. Growing up in
| the mid Atlantic, in addition to the venues in all the larger
| cities (NYC, Philly, DC, Baltimore) there were also dedicated
| electronic dance music venues in much smaller cities --
| Allentown PA, Atlantic City NJ, and Ithaca NY are a few
| examples. Often these venues were either all-ages or 18+.
|
| These clubs all started to disappear around 2003-2005. The
| media had portrayed the rave scene exclusively as a teen
| sex/drug thing, which then brought in a lot of kids who weren't
| there for the music at all, and that led to government
| intervention both at the local and Federal level.
|
| Over the past decade, there's been a small resurgence of
| dedicated electronic dance music venues, at least here in NYC
| -- mostly Brooklyn, always 21+, more serious crowd. It's
| certainly waxed and waned over the years. The closure of Output
| a couple years back was a major blow, but other venues like
| Elsewhere helped filled the gap. The club owners and promoters
| always had to strike a delicate balance of trying to be popular
| enough to stay afloat, but not so popular that the crowd
| sucked. I don't know if any of these places will survive the
| pandemic, sadly.
| hattmall wrote:
| The first one is what we've always referred to as a Vegas club,
| primarily focused around bottle service. Literally over half
| and sometimes even more, like 90%, is dedicated to tables. I
| really wouldn't say that's the norm for most people in America.
| You really won't find clubs like that outside of a few major
| cities like NYC, LA, Miami and of course Vegas.
|
| But every city has nightclubs that are more of a mix of the
| two. The dance floor being the main attraction for most people,
| but they will still have a VIP area with tables and bottle
| service that takes up maybe 10% max of the floor space and
| wearing a suit would make most people assume you are coming
| from a wedding.
|
| Music is normally an infusion of electronic and hiphop. In a
| lot of places they will have a different dance floor that's
| more focused on a particular genre for the night be it deep
| house or 80s hair bands. IMO that's 95% of the clubs people are
| attending in the US.
| scraft wrote:
| This doesn't reflect my experience from the UK. In the UK a
| club to people I know is thought of roughly as:
|
| - Late (22:00 - 03:00 probably been core hours)
|
| - Music/dancing being the primary activity
|
| - A small amount of seating, either VIP tables, or some small
| area or bit near the dance floor
|
| - Alcohol (and perhaps drugs) being consumed quite liberally
|
| - A lot of the clientele looking for a short term partner
|
| The dress side of it just varies, there are places with little
| to no dress code, places that require shirt and shoes and
| others inbetween, but I wouldn't specifically say the dress
| code leads to fundamentally different places, except, the more
| relaxed dress code typically means more relaxed, diverse
| people, where as fancy dress code can be a bit more
| mainstream/think-they-are-something-special.
|
| Places you sit down at tables and drink are typically pubs or
| bars. These days the two are pretty similar, at a push the more
| traditional feeling places are more likely to being pubs.
|
| When I was younger I went to the above type establishments not
| just in the UK but in pretty much every country in the EU and
| something I found in lots of the EU is something I call
| "europop" nightclubs, which is a bit harder to explain, but it
| is venues which are really laid back, everyone just wants to
| have fun (no aggressive behaviour, male dominance/competition)
| and plays a whole host of music that has never come to the UK,
| but everyone over there knows. All of my best club experiences
| have been these type of places - it's where a 30 year old rock
| influenced person can be dancing away next to a mainstream 18
| year old student and they can chat without barriers.
|
| I do see an increasing amount of younger people that don't
| really drink and fuel their social interactions from Tinder and
| other social media, so I have wondered a few times if clubs
| will fade further out over the years.
| FriendlyNormie wrote:
| You are all fat, autistic, and smell like cheetos. Stop
| pretending you ever leave the basement.
| [deleted]
| goto11 wrote:
| There is a kind of club I have only seen in American movies,
| but which I assume have a real-world basis: People mostly sit
| at tables, but there is an orchestra and an emcee, a glamorous
| singer and perhaps choreographed dancers with elaborate
| costumes. Does this still exist?
| selimthegrim wrote:
| Dinner/supper clubs in the upper Midwest but without the
| orchestra (see: Fargo)
| throwaway2245 wrote:
| I would call this a jazz club (in the UK; even if it doesn't
| play jazz specifically).
| LeanderK wrote:
| to elaborate on the second, since it's a scene I identify with.
| For me, these clubs are culture. You listen to the music,
| follow the djs and select the venues for the artists that are
| playing. You come for the experience, not (just) to seek a
| sexual partner. I am in a healthy, non-open relationship and I
| am just as drawn to those nightclubs as I would have been
| without. You dance, dance and dance and get lost in the music,
| the abstract space the artist is creating. It's very
| unfortunate that those places are not recognised in germany for
| their cultural focus and therefore don't get the protection
| other cultural places do. These clubs can't really go
| commercial, it kills everything they stand for. The clubs and
| the scene usually has ties to the local art-scene, that's why
| many double as art-spaces by day. It's the only thing they can
| do without loosing their identity, but unfortunately art-spaces
| are also not big money-makers.
|
| They also have strong ties to the LGBTQ-community are important
| for them as spaces where they can freely express themselves.
|
| I don't think many politicians can really understand the idea
| that a nightclub can be culture, just like concerts, museums
| and art-spaces. A focus on something other than profitability.
| kortex wrote:
| My favorite dive is in that category, a goth industrial club
| in a former hole in the wall burger joint. The front is retro
| diner, the dance hall is cramped, filled with psychedelic
| art, and sports three giant paper mache tentacles emerging
| from an octopus mural from an undersea theme night five years
| back. The alley where everyone smokes is covered in graffiti.
| The sound system has gremlins and the speakers distort,
| arguably improving the harsh industrial tracks. It's the most
| welcoming place in the whole city (except for that one time a
| volatile neo-nazi showed up - he got literally thrown out the
| door, we don't tolerate intolerance). Ultra LGBTQ friendly.
|
| I have no idea how they stayed afloat during the best of
| times and I'm not sure it's going to open up once covid is
| gone. But the community itself has been around since the 70s,
| hopping from one seedy joint to the next as they got
| shuttered, demolished, turned into swanky gastropubs and
| hospital parking lots. Something will arise from the ashes.
| hluska wrote:
| That place sounds like my personal definition of heaven.
| Symbiote wrote:
| If you find yourself in London, head to Slimelight at the
| Electrowerkz.
|
| It's (supposedly) the longest-running dark/alternative
| night in the world, starting in 1987. The venue was built
| as a two-level horse stables in the 19th century, so
| there's a strange, sloping ramp to the first floor. It was
| an electroplating works for much of the 20th century,
| before being squatted in the 1980s by the punks and goths.
| The back of the building is now a specialist scrap metal
| merchant, which is a source of some of the decoration --
| there's an old tank outside, bits of ex-military aircraft,
| the seats in the "quiet" area are rocket launcher ammo
| cases, the industrial signs saying "Sellafield Nuclear
| Authority -- Restricted Zone" and the like are real.
|
| Bits of the building have been used to raise money at
| times; e.g. a restaurant, film shoots, weddings, other club
| nights, but the main goth/industrial party is on Saturdays,
| 23h-07:30h. They at least used to sell cake and jerk
| chicken. When I first went, you had to be signed in by an
| existing member, but you could also bring your own drinks
| if you didn't want to use the cheap bar. That's no longer
| the case, and the bar is OK-for-London prices.
|
| I'm rarely in London on Saturday night nowadays, so I
| haven't been for a while, and I don't know how many people
| go to the club. (In the past, there have been periods where
| it's been a bit quiet.)
|
| It looks like they just received a PS78,000 grant from the
| UK Arts Council, which is excellent news [1].
|
| [1] http://islingtonnow.co.uk/electrowerkz-grant/
|
| https://www.facebook.com/SlimelightOfficial
| namdnay wrote:
| The fundamental issue with the second type of club is that
| they're usually not making money on the drugs. This was true
| for the Hacienda and its true for most of the clubs now.
|
| I strongly suspect that it's not the case for the mega-clubs in
| Ibiza, and that they get their cut somehow
| TheOtherHobbes wrote:
| Either the dealers eat the club or the club eats the dealers.
|
| The dealers ate the Hacienda. It's over as soon as the club
| has to hire enforcers to keep the dealers in line - because
| the enforcers are also hired by the same dealers. And that
| gets... complicated.
|
| It's a fair bet it's the other way around for the headline
| clubs in Europe, and possibly a few US cities (NY, etc).
|
| This may suggest interesting things about who ultimately
| owns/manages those clubs.
| randomopining wrote:
| Ibiza is the 17Euro waters. 17 euro tiny beers.
| jowdones wrote:
| Eastern European here. I remember going to Mallorca and see
| clubs advertise 20 EUR entry for an all-you-can-drink
| night. We went there just to see with our own eyes and
| indeed it was. Vodka + tonic or beer and not even cheap
| crappy one on tap in plastic cups but bottled beer in small
| bottles. No idea how it was profitable to them, we drank a
| lot but couldn't match the Brits there who got totally
| wasted :P
| randomopining wrote:
| Rofl, classic Brits. They really go for it.
|
| I guess Mallorca is younger and more alcohol centered.
| Ibiza is more drugs and a bit older average age. Costs
| more, etc. Solid techno DJs though.
| tin7in wrote:
| Mega-clubs in Ibiza know that and charge much higher entry
| fees compared to clubs with similar lineup in Europe. On top
| performing nights of the week the entry fee is at least
| 40-50EUR. Then you pay 15EUR for a bottle of water. On top of
| that most mega-clubs have bottled service as well.
| mattlondon wrote:
| At least in the UK/London, #1 would be considered a "bar"
| (distinct from a "pub"), but as far as my experience goes
| (probably not been on a proper night out in London in 5+ years
| now) paying for a table is pretty much unheard of, unless it is
| a _deposit_ /minimum-drink-spend for a pre-reserved table that
| then comes out of the bill at the end. To me _paying_ for a
| table just seems like a ripoff.
|
| #2 is as described, apart from there is probably entirely
| mainstream and not particularly LGBTQ (although there are
| dedicated places that specialise in that sort of thing)
|
| Both #1 and #2 are usually over-priced and mostly filled with
| tourists or hen/stagg parties, and as such "uncool".
| leoedin wrote:
| Your comment falls for the same trap the parent describes.
| London has loads of #2 style dance focused club nights which
| aren't usually particulary touristy (unless they're famous -
| eg ministry of sound, maybe fabric) and basically have no
| stag dos. Tickets tend to sell out weeks in advance, which
| limits the "get drunk and decide to go out" crowd. People
| tend to be there for the music - a specific genre or DJ
| usually. The pull is the organisers rather than the venue, so
| they sometimes move around.
| golemiprague wrote:
| Clubs were a place of hedonism and cultural disruption but these
| days with all the me too and victorian morals the only ones who
| can still enjoy themselves are gays who get excused for whatever
| behaviour and maybe some minorities who couldn't care less about
| anything. Add tinder to the mix and there is no reason for a
| straight white person to risk their reputation or even freedom in
| a club.
|
| The other problem is music which used to be part of the counter
| culture and social movements but now has no cultural meaning and
| is pure entertainment. People used to define themselves by the
| type of music they listen to and the relevant cloths and attitude
| but it seems like in some ways it moved towards gaming, these
| days the games you play define you more than the music. It is not
| without reason that two of the most disrupting sub cultures had
| something to do with gaming, gamergate and gamestop.
| rektide wrote:
| very much agree. nightlife has been struggling, is my
| prescription, in my city. it's very pricey. a lot less youth, a
| lot less live musical & clubs, more medium-upscale dining.
| drglitch wrote:
| Speaking about at least NYC, the nightclub prices have gone just
| a little bit too nuts right before Covid - think $2k for a table
| for 4 with a single bottle of ($30 dollar) vodka. $25 mix drinks
| were a norm.
|
| Combined with lack of innovative artists and ever-increasing
| homogeneity of style (do I sound like a grumpy old man yet?),
| clubs seemed to have been racing towards a peak. Smaller venues
| were suddenly cooler, cheaper, and more interesting.
| AtlasBarfed wrote:
| I just can't see how clubs that are basically on some continuum
| of the sexual socializing scene (from meat market to more
| meet/greet) aren't getting completely undermined by online
| dating/hookup/meet apps.
|
| Maybe corner bar for first meets, but who would take a first
| date to a zoot suit club?
|
| Drug/experience/rave/music clubs should all rebound though.
| CydeWeys wrote:
| Even ignoring the cost (which isn't _that_ bad for an
| occasional thing if you don 't buy a table, which I've never
| done), I've never had that much fun at a nightclub. I feel on
| edge the entire time. It's something about the overall
| atmosphere of the place that raises your stress levels. I can't
| quite put a finger on it.
|
| Now a slightly more laid back live music venue I love. Can't
| tell you how many times I went to Brooklyn Bowl and Rockwood
| pre-pandemic.
| pelagicAustral wrote:
| Jesus H Christ! 2 G's for a table? You know, where I'm from, a
| person can get a decently sized house with a 12,000
| downpayment. All you have to do is stay home for 6 straight
| weekends in NYC. Apparently.
| dehrmann wrote:
| $12,000 might be a down payment for a parking spot in a major
| city.
| executive wrote:
| $25,000 for a top table at LIV Miami NYE. $7,500 on a regular
| night.
| macimumg wrote:
| Just to add to what everyone else said: I'm in Miami right
| now and most of the clubs (the ones that open at midnight
| and close at 0500) basically work such that if you don't
| spend $1-10k for table/bottle service you might as well not
| even go.
| lizknope wrote:
| I have not been to a club night or otherwise in over 25
| years. It's just not my thing. But I am curious what is the
| difference between a top table and a regular table? What
| even goes on at a regular table?
| executive wrote:
| Location within the club. In and around DJ booth /
| dancefloor can cost almost 10x the cheapest table. See
| and be seen = $$$$$
|
| At these venues you aren't paying for the table per se...
| these are generally minimum spend amounts for drink/food
| (pre gratuity).
|
| For ticketed events, table reso also usually includes
| admission & line bypass for x guests.
| orbifold wrote:
| This seems very strange, why on earth would you pay that
| much to listen to music and who are you trying to
| impress? Is there some implicit assumption that you can
| meet otherwise unavailable women / men there? That seems
| extremely unlikely as well.
| [deleted]
| frostburg wrote:
| I assume that it's prostitution with extra steps.
| the-dude wrote:
| It has been submitted before :
| https://www.economist.com/1843/2020/07/03/the-secret-
| economi...
|
| Here : https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24390388
| ehvatum wrote:
| > See and be seen = $$$$$
|
| Learning that one of my guys paid for a $25k nightclub
| table reservation is one of a handful of personal life
| decisions that would lead to a serious conversation to
| determine if I accidentally hired a dangerous retard.
|
| You can do a lot of stupid shit and be OK with me, but
| not a $25k night club table.
| jrh206 wrote:
| I agree with your point. However,
|
| 'Retard' is a word that has historically been used to
| describe a persona with an intellectual disability, but
| has entered language as offensive slag. Unfortunately
| using the word in this way suggests that people with a
| disability are stupid or flawed. People often don't mean
| them in this way, but they still cause people pain and
| reinforce negative stereotypes.
|
| I'm sure that this was the last thing on your mind, and
| I'm sorry for bringing it up. But I hope I've encouraged
| you to rethink how you use the word.
|
| https://www.aruma.com.au/about-us/blog/two-words-you-
| need-to...
| Invictus0 wrote:
| No one that can afford that is working for a paycheck.
| williamdclt wrote:
| Not sure that's a relevant comparison, the class of people
| that will put a 12000 down payment for this decently sized
| house are not the same class of people that will splash 2k on
| a nightclub table in NYC
| albertgoeswoof wrote:
| They're the same class, one group just has a lot more money
| than the other
| sneak wrote:
| It's explicitly conspicuous consumption, a way to signal
| one's financial status to others without having to wear
| expensive clothes, watches, shoes, et c.
|
| I would imagine that it gets you a certain amount of
| attention from a certain type of person.
| megameter wrote:
| There's a sentiment rolling lately in music-making communities
| that EDM is past its peak, and I think it's tied to how the
| scene has evolved commercially, including its presence in
| nightclubs, as well as the ushering in of streaming media.
| cehrlich wrote:
| My experience is in London, but very similar. Even if you can
| afford it, the "real" nightclubs are total waste of time and
| money.
|
| Unfortunately a lot of places that were actual music venues
| (Fabric was the one that got the most press attention, but
| there were others) got shut down in recent years because of
| noise complaints, drug investigations, etc. This of course
| played right into the hand of property developers. I'm sure
| lockdowns aren't helping either, and there's probably a bunch
| of suits frothing at the mouth to replace everything with
| "luxury housing units" in places that currently have decent
| nightlife like Vauxhall, the northern part of Kingsland Road
| leading to Tottenham, etc.
|
| On the other hand I don't think it's possible to kill culture,
| and the people who want to put on events will find a way. At
| least that's the only optimistic way to look at the current
| situation.
| mathattack wrote:
| Ironically it's those same suits who are paying for the
| bottle service.
| tialaramex wrote:
| In my city I'd suggest a big change that was already happening
| before COVID-19 was that you'd go buy fancy ice cream instead.
| You can listen to current music, hang out with your friends, buy
| something you don't really need, late at night, but because ice
| cream doesn't cause humans to become stupider and more violent it
| causes much less trouble so the ice cream place doesn't have a
| constant war with the courts and police over the excess crime.
|
| The ice cream shop does shut a bit earlier than the nightclubs
| (midnight versus 0200 or so) though.
| tupac_speedrap wrote:
| Maybe it's a bit of a generational thing? I'm not a fan. Shit
| loud music, PS5+ to get in, the drinks are expensive and bouncers
| are arbitrary so you have to deal with that.
| laurent92 wrote:
| Bouncers were my regular insult to my developing identity in my
| latter teenage years. We were engineers, we didn't understand
| what those bouncers wanted... We couldn't bring girls, we
| didn't know many. A weekly frustration.
|
| I believe that is why I really enjoyed becoming gay. I was
| cute, muscular and decently dressed, lord knows why I wasn't
| welcome in straight clubs (and I wasn't effeminate), but at
| least in gay clubs there was no ratio or requirement to bring
| women on board.
|
| The same when dealing with a gay relationship: No assigned
| gender role, no problem if the other is doing the washing up. I
| literally became gay because it was easier, I was desired by
| many, accepted in clubs, found equality in the relationship,
| where I was refused by women. I never pierced the secret.
|
| But I'm still regretting.
| ZanyProgrammer wrote:
| I think there's a lot of things that "even before X, they were
| struggling" could apply to as well. Like shopping malls,
| department stores and the internet.
| mathattack wrote:
| COVID is a trend accelerator.
| ghaff wrote:
| I don't know how serious you were intending that to be, but I
| think it's pretty much spot on. I was dipping in and out of a
| virtual event last week essentially about current and future
| work (from The Economist actually) and one person made a
| comment to the effect of COVID brought the next decade of
| workplace changes into the present. i.e. there's not a lot
| that wasn't happening to some degree anyway, but it's been
| greatly accelerated.
| thepangolino wrote:
| Here's an equally true title, see how you like it:
|
| "Even before COVID-19, coronavirus victims were struggling with
| multiple comorbidities"
| dang wrote:
| Could you please stop posting flamebait and unsubstantive
| comments to HN? You've been doing it a lot and it's not what
| this site is for.
|
| https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
| eznzt wrote:
| I like it. People who are obese and/or suffer from hypertension
| should've taken care of themselves for example.
___________________________________________________________________
(page generated 2021-02-07 23:01 UTC)