[HN Gopher] Balthazar Personal Computing Device, a 13" RISC-V la...
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Balthazar Personal Computing Device, a 13" RISC-V laptop
Author : SamWhited
Score : 51 points
Date : 2021-02-05 19:50 UTC (3 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (balthazar.space)
(TXT) w3m dump (balthazar.space)
| xiphias2 wrote:
| I'd happily buy a RISC-V laptop, but I think it's too early,
| mobile phones and servers will come first. Also the artist
| rendering is ugly, I would expect an ultra-light laptop from a
| low power architecture.
|
| I want to see how it competes with Apple's M1 processor in speed
| (especially that the web page writes that it's a fast laptop) and
| power utilization.
| duskwuff wrote:
| > I want to see how it competes with Apple's M1 processor in
| speed (especially that the web page writes that it's a fast
| laptop)
|
| That's a goal, not a specification. The project hasn't chosen a
| processor. They aren't even sure it'll be RISC-V.
| m463 wrote:
| I think risc-v might work best as a server
|
| For phone/desktop/laptop a rough spot would be the GPU. And
| possibly perf/watt.
|
| The M1 meanwhile most likely has billions of dollars of
| development behind it.
| xiphias2 wrote:
| I don't see why RISC-V couldn't have billions of dollars
| behind it in 10-20 years.
|
| For Chinese phones I don't see any better architecture right
| now, as they can't depend on ARM forever, it's too risky for
| them.
| wk_end wrote:
| Isn't China pretty heavily invested into MIPS with the
| Loongson? Is there any good reason for them to drop that
| for RISC-V?
| xiphias2 wrote:
| RISC-V has a huge effort behind it to run all available
| open source software. Even though there's a MIPS Android
| port, it just doesn't have the amount of backing that
| RISC-V is getting from hundreds of companies (basically
| all big companies)
| spijdar wrote:
| I'd expect less activity around the MIPS port because it
| is, by and large, already fully functional and a first
| class citizen of Android, while RISC-V is still being
| fully bootstrapped.
|
| Further, software like Chrome/Chromium and V8 already
| have functioning MIPS ports, which will be (a lot of)
| additional work not currently being performed for RISC-V.
|
| Compared to RISC-V, almost everything in the Linux
| ecosystem should already "just work" on MIPS. I think
| it's fair to ask why there wouldn't be more development
| of MIPS, which is effectively a Chinese owned ISA at this
| point, since it's more mature than RISC-V, if not as
| "exciting".
| xiphias2 wrote:
| To quote Elon Musk: ,,The most entertaining outcome is
| the most likely''.
|
| I see just the opposite when I look around Reddit: MIPS
| is dying. Google Play services is not updated on it, and
| I don't see why people would port new games on it.
|
| You need neural networks running efficiently to run all
| the face swap algorithms (V in RISC-V was for vector
| support originally), GPUs supported (again a RISC-V GPU
| ISA extension is in development), JIT acceleration (J
| extension). If it's not exciting for developers, it won't
| win for consumer devices.
| 1MachineElf wrote:
| >For all children 9-99
| petee wrote:
| It's worth pointing out that this is a NLNet Foundation funded
| project; they seem to back useful projects, from the ones I've
| seen personally
| duskwuff wrote:
| In case it wasn't clear to anyone: this is a product _very_ early
| in the planning phase, to the extent that many of the features
| are unspecified (no processor has been chosen, they aren 't even
| certain on whether it'll be RISC-V or ARM), underspecified to the
| point of being unintelligible ("detachable USB gender-changer
| dongle"), or outright ridiculous (SSH-based communications
| between the keyboard and CPU).
|
| I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for a product here. This does
| not have the smell of success on it.
| ianai wrote:
| Like seriously what would an ssh client running on the keyboard
| even achieve? Maybe they're thinking of encrypting it. But
| keyloggers running at the OS level don't care. Or is this to
| force people to only use their keyboards? Or maybe it'll just
| add a billion to their SPAC buyout.
| swiley wrote:
| I guess you could have a wireless keyboard without some of
| the bluetooth security issues?
| codys wrote:
| SSH would not be the way to accomplish that.
| striking wrote:
| For anyone else who wants to take a peek for themselves at the
| concerns raised in this comment:
| https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:https:...
|
| Another thing that doesn't seem to line up with reality is the
| idea that they might convince Nvidia to make their stuff FOSS
| enough to be included in this project.
| NovemberWhiskey wrote:
| Yeah - clicked on this expecting to see vaporware; was not
| disappointed.
| arduinomancer wrote:
| There's gotta be some reasoning behind those but when you put
| it that way it sounds like some hilarious marketing speak.
|
| "We're putting blockchain technology in the trackpad"
|
| "Machine learning in the power button"
| CameronNemo wrote:
| I assumed that when I read the words riscv and laptop, but then
| I saw nlnet was backing the project. I wonder what they are
| hoping to get out of the project.
| Hyp3rion wrote:
| > While being versatile and robust it also follows CERN OSHL,
| GNU-GPL, FOSS, EOMA, ISA and even CC guidelines
|
| This is almost the most concerning part. They're treating
| FOSS like it's some kind of standard. It's not. FOSS just
| means software that is free and open source. Something is, or
| isn't FOSS. You don't follow some standard to deliver a FOSS
| product.
| philipkglass wrote:
| It's getting hugged to death.
|
| Mirror:
| https://web.archive.org/web/20210205204013/https://balthazar...
|
| Can it possibly be be used with Libreboot? It would be nice to
| have some newly manufactured hardware in laptop form that
| Libreboot can use.
| duskwuff wrote:
| > Can it possibly be be used with Libreboot?
|
| No. Libreboot lacks support for any of the hardware under
| consideration by this project.
|
| Libreboot is essentially a dead project. It only supports a
| limited number of Penryn-era (roughly 2007-2010) Intel laptops,
| and -- strangely -- the RK3288C-based Chromebook C210.
| CameronNemo wrote:
| Can libreboot target any ARM SoCs? It seems like u-boot with a
| verified boot path is not a common configuration, while the
| coreboot ecosystem has a number of security oriented payloads.
| philipkglass wrote:
| The Libreboot wiki lists one ARM based system as supported, a
| particular Chromeboook:
|
| https://libreboot.org/docs/hardware/c201.html
| spijdar wrote:
| I think it's fair to point out libreboot is a fork off
| coreboot, and while libreboot is basically a dead project
| at this point, coreboot development continues. Chromebooks
| tend to use coreboot natively, and on some chromebooks, you
| can recompile and reflash coreboot, sometimes with no
| binary blobs.
|
| Google makes this (reflashing the firmware) surprisingly
| easy in many cases, although there are often many caveats
| to running linux/alternative firmware on chromebooks, to
| the point it's kind of hard to recommend buying one for
| this purpose.
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