[HN Gopher] Join a browser fingerprinting study
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       Join a browser fingerprinting study
        
       Author : elsombrero
       Score  : 54 points
       Date   : 2021-02-05 15:52 UTC (7 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (browser-fingerprint.cs.fau.de)
 (TXT) w3m dump (browser-fingerprint.cs.fau.de)
        
       | jeroenhd wrote:
       | I've signed up to see what it could find, but when I open the
       | fingerprinting page in Firefox I just get loading spinners for
       | most of the JS based tracking.
       | 
       | I think Privacy Possum has prevented fingerprinting. I'll disable
       | it for now, but I do wonder what this would mean for the results
       | of the study.
        
         | hwbehrens wrote:
         | It seems the intention of the study is precisely to determine
         | the impacts that these plugins have on prevention (or
         | facilitation) of fingerprinting.
         | 
         | I think it should eventually complete, since mine did and I use
         | a similar constellation of privacy plugins -- I think there is
         | a timeout that eventually occurs once the various
         | fingerprinting methods fail.
        
           | jeroenhd wrote:
           | I noticed several fingerprints without JS in my account when
           | I browsed the results. I suppose some of the fingerprinting
           | works, but even after waiting a minute my screen didn't work
           | with the JS version.
        
       | jonatron wrote:
       | Firefox makes a fuss about anti-fingerprinting, and I have
       | "Enhanced Tracking Protection" set to Strict, yet I see uncommon
       | values for WebGL Vendor and WebGL Renderer in
       | https://amiunique.org/fp . Unless this study feeds into changing
       | things like that, it seems a bit pointless.
        
         | codetrotter wrote:
         | > yet I see uncommon values for WebGL Vendor and WebGL Renderer
         | 
         | I don't know how Firefox does it but instead of trying to make
         | the WebGL fingerprint the same for everyone every time they
         | could also try to make it unique for everyone every time and it
         | would have the same effect.
         | 
         | If every time you loaded a page your WebGL fingerprint differed
         | then a website can't use that to tell if it was the same
         | browser that loaded the same page previously or any other page
         | anywhere else previously.
         | 
         | (Assuming that the WebGL fingerprint anonymization was so good
         | that it could indeed not be correlated between different
         | fingerprints in any meaningful way.)
        
           | kmeisthax wrote:
           | Part of the problem with either approach is that certain
           | identifying information is also necessary for just making the
           | web work. For example, on the EFF's Cover Your Tracks page
           | (what is basically a fingerprinting demonstration), it shows
           | that the screen resolution of my monitor conveys 16.25 bits
           | of information. I use a particularly wonky landscape display
           | mounted in portrait mode, which doesn't help the matter, but
           | there's a problem: we can't lie about it.
           | 
           | You see, a while back we decided to allow writing CSS that
           | changed the design of a website based on the size of it's
           | containing viewport. This is called "responsive design" and
           | is very useful; however, it also means that websites rely on
           | having a correct window size in order to display content
           | correctly. We cannot be inconsistent about our lies: if we
           | were to, say, lie about the screen resolution but still
           | handle media queries faithfully, then not only can the
           | fingerprinter see through our lie, it can use the fact that
           | we lied as extra information. (Remember how DNT served as an
           | effective tracking indicator?) So that would mean browsers
           | would have to start, say, snapping browser windows to certain
           | common viewports or capping the number of distinct
           | breakpoints a website's CSS is allowed to have; both of which
           | have UX or compatibility implications.
        
             | ifigjfur8485 wrote:
             | A better long term solution would be to make websites
             | behave more like print has for the past 500 years, and only
             | allow them to pull info from the server while greatly
             | restricting what they can transmit back. Only allow POST
             | buttons to send home strictly textual data the users
             | themselves typed out. Yeah, this would break certain cool
             | legit websites like those that run HTML5 games that need to
             | constantly transmit info back to the server. But this
             | wouldn't have to break sites like
             | HN/Reddit/Twitter/news/science/whatever. If you wanted a
             | web that could give you beautiful images and typography
             | without fingerprinting, such a thing could be built. It
             | would break big Adtech tracking though so we'll never see
             | this simplifying improvement in a big-Adtech funded browser
             | (like Chromium).
        
               | codetrotter wrote:
               | > Only allow POST buttons to send home strictly textual
               | data the users themselves typed out
               | 
               | I'm almost with you but in that case even shopping online
               | would not work. Unless you force the user to manually
               | type in the SKU of each item they want to add to their
               | cart and so on. That's not gonna happen :p
        
               | iuiujmfi787 wrote:
               | Good point. There would be a few details like this to
               | work out, of course. My first suggestion would be to
               | allow text-boxes to be pre-populated with form data (like
               | QTY and SKU) subject to tight restrictions. (There would
               | be no script code sniffing the user's fingerprint before
               | the text boxes are populated with SKU data, for example.)
               | So a web dev could still create a shopping page with Add-
               | to-Cart buttons such that clicking the button tells the
               | server the SKU and QTY added to cart for session
               | SESSION_ID. And the user transparently observes exactly
               | which sequence of Unicode codepoints is being transmitted
               | to the server upon clicking the Add-to-Cart button.
        
             | billiam wrote:
             | Yep, despite good browser hygiene my most unique browser
             | identifier is my display size and color depth
             | (2560x1600x24) Guess my original Apple Cinema HD display
             | will clearly identify me as a dumb cheapskate who pays for
             | expensive things and then uses them until they break. I'm a
             | terrible advertising target :)
        
             | weinzierl wrote:
             | > We cannot be inconsistent about our lies: if we were to,
             | say, lie about the screen resolution but still handle media
             | queries faithfully, then not only can the fingerprinter see
             | through our lie, it can use the fact that we lied as extra
             | information.
             | 
             | Depends on to whom we lie. The OS usually[1] should not lie
             | to the browser and the browser has to know the truth to do
             | its duty and for example render the page.
             | 
             | The browser lying to the server is a different story. Not a
             | simple story, but in principle there is no reason the
             | server needs to learn rendering details from the client.
             | 
             | [1] Location faking apps are one example where OS lying
             | works with little downsides.
        
               | warp wrote:
               | If the browser doesn't lie while rendering the page, then
               | JavaScript can deduce the window size by measuring
               | elements on the page. And obviously JavaScript can send
               | this information to the server.
        
             | ChrisSD wrote:
             | You can lie about screen size. If you don't have your
             | browser fullscreen then the browser can claim the screen
             | size is the browser size. The TOR browser handles this by
             | having certain fixed sizes meant for different sized
             | displays so at worse you fall in to one of a few
             | categories.
        
           | bluedispatcher wrote:
           | This is what Brave does if I'm not mistaken.
        
       | minimalist wrote:
       | This [0] is a great set of configurations for the Firefox browser
       | that remove many fingerprinting vectors. It turns on several
       | fingerprint-homogenization features that the TBB project
       | upstreamed into Firefox. Check it out!
       | 
       | (By using this, G--gle will hound you with impossible capchas and
       | privacy-forward search engines will think that you're a bot.)
       | 
       | Most of these fingerprinting vectors are from the browser and the
       | scourge of JS. I wonder about the footprint left by a user who
       | doesn't use a browser, or instead uses some kind of parsing
       | client that just fetches HTTP or data from API endpoint. Aside
       | from the IP address, there are other ways to fingerprint a user
       | based on network requests from various protocol leaks, many are
       | presented here [1][2]. Are there any leak vectors missing from
       | this list?
       | 
       | [0]: https://github.com/pyllyukko/user.js
       | 
       | [1]: https://www.whonix.org/wiki/Protocol-Leak-
       | Protection_and_Fin...
       | 
       | [2]: https://www.whonix.org/wiki/Data_Collection_Techniques
        
         | vorticalbox wrote:
         | Doesn't turning off all this make you stand out more?
         | 
         | Surely if you want to hide your need to look like everyone else
         | and hide in the crowds.
        
         | pacamara619 wrote:
         | >By using this, G--gle will hound you with impossible capchas
         | and privacy-forward search engines will think that you're a bot
         | 
         | A friend of mine had an alternative theory: by making it very
         | very hard to track you, you have shown to be somewhat
         | intelligent and you have shown that you know more about
         | computers than the average Joe. Goolag, knowing you're a
         | somewhat intelligent human, gives you the very hard captchas it
         | needs to train.
        
           | adkadskhj wrote:
           | I wonder if the answer is in-between.
           | 
           | If Google has a way to verify correctness of an answer, which
           | they seemingly would have to - then would it matter? Smart
           | person or smart bot - if they are given a tough question and
           | answer correctly Google gains confidence in the answer _(or
           | however it works haha)_.
           | 
           | Because really i don't think Google cares at all about bots.
           | They just want data. And the captcha system is an impressive
           | system to pull training data out of intelligent beings/code.
        
       | Daho0n wrote:
       | I think we killed it.
        
       | gnabgib wrote:
       | This title lead me to believe I'd be finding the _result_ of a
       | study.. not receiving the sales pitch. There have been studies
       | before[0] with available tools[1] and advice[2].. perhaps this
       | should be linked to the results [3] OR the title updated to
       | "Join a browser fingerprinting study"
       | 
       | [0]: https://coveryourtracks.eff.org/static/browser-
       | uniqueness.pd... [1]: https://coveryourtracks.eff.org/ [2]:
       | https://restoreprivacy.com/browser-fingerprinting/ [3]:
       | https://browser-fingerprint.cs.fau.de/statistics?lang=en
        
         | dang wrote:
         | Ok, we'll put that in the title above.
         | 
         | Since the same URL was posted as long ago as 2016
         | (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11266172), it's not clear
         | how current this is.
        
       | mbrumlow wrote:
       | I am sorry. Not going to tie my email address to something trying
       | to fingerprint my browser.
        
       | vehemenz wrote:
       | Unfortunately, I think these studies are a bit naive because the
       | proprietary, data-driven, probabilistic fingerprinting models
       | used by Facebook and LinkedIn (to name two of the most elaborate
       | fingerprinters) are years ahead of anything a few researchers
       | could come up with.
       | 
       | 1. Get a gazillion users on your site
       | 
       | 2. Require a user account tied to a real person
       | 
       | 3. Log IP, host, geolocation, and as many JavaScript/browser APIs
       | as you can (there are hundreds at this point)
       | 
       | 4. Among the fields you track, find the ones that ones that are
       | the most stable and unique over time
       | 
       | 5. Assign some probabilities to these fields to eliminate false
       | positives
       | 
       | 6. Generate personas for users for when they are at home, work,
       | one their phone, etc.
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | lazyjeff wrote:
         | There's more subtle signals too. Luis Leiva is a researcher who
         | has some work on mouse cursor trails as a fingerprinting
         | technique, and ways to counteract it:
         | https://www.researchgate.net/publication/348739714_My_Mouse_...
        
         | Supermancho wrote:
         | > Log IP, host, geolocation, and as many JavaScript/browser
         | APIs as you can (there are hundreds at this point)
         | 
         | That's fingerprinting, traditionally. Hence, the "Cookieless
         | tracking" header right there on the page. If you are tying in
         | other data, that's data aggregation for your business case and
         | is fundamentally unrelated.
         | 
         | I mean, generating personas and whatever "false positives"
         | mean, has nothing to do with fingerprinting. If you cant
         | differentiate from an anon user to another, that's data too.
        
         | weinzierl wrote:
         | > Facebook and LinkedIn (to name two of the most elaborate
         | fingerprinters) are years ahead of anything a few researchers
         | could come up with.
         | 
         | Not only them. It is available to the masses[1] and I am afraid
         | GDPR has given this trend a boost.
         | 
         | [1] https://fingerprintjs.com/
        
         | tjoff wrote:
         | 7. Try to figure out what to do with the data generated by step
         | 3 through 6.
         | 
         | 8. Give up and stop at 2 instead.
        
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       (page generated 2021-02-05 23:02 UTC)