[HN Gopher] Me and ADHD
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Me and ADHD
        
       Author : rbanffy
       Score  : 110 points
       Date   : 2021-02-01 19:16 UTC (3 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.linkedin.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.linkedin.com)
        
       | 0xb0565e486 wrote:
       | Am I the only one who feels a bit discredited when someone blames
       | their ADHD for their shortcomings?
       | 
       | To me, all the ADHD symptoms listed in this article sounds like
       | nothing more but normal human traits.
       | 
       | Also, author hasn't been diagnosed with ADHD, and the tips can be
       | helpful to everyone.
        
         | jeffnv wrote:
         | You're not the only one that feels this way. Just like you're
         | not the only one that probably feels like alcoholics should
         | just learn to handle their liquor, bulimics should accept their
         | body image, people with cardiovascular issues should just
         | exercise more, stutterers should just stop stuttering,
         | asthmatics should just breath better, etc. What you have is a
         | lack of empathy and understanding for people that genuinely
         | suffer from a condition that you don't suffer from, and yes
         | lots of people are in the same boat as you.
        
           | jonathankoren wrote:
           | I don't think this is a fair characterization of what he was
           | saying. Many of people that post these stories are self
           | diagnosed, which should give you pause. Maybe they are. Maybe
           | they aren't. No one -- including the poster -- knows.
           | 
           | If they're not actually ADHD, then they're just using this
           | self diagnosis as excuse. You see the same thing with people
           | declaring that they're "on the spectrum", when called out for
           | bad behavior. As one diagnosed autistic friend put it,
           | "They're not autistic. They're just an asshole."
        
           | 0xb0565e486 wrote:
           | As far as I can tell, empathy goes both ways, and I think
           | it's a bit unfair of you to call me unempathetic for simply
           | expressing how I'm feeling.
           | 
           | I also don't think the examples you give are great analogues
           | to the situation (although highly related) as I've not meet a
           | lot of people using alcoholism, bulimia and asthma as a way
           | to avoid everyday tasks in contrast to ADHD.
        
             | renewiltord wrote:
             | I think you've misunderstood, which is natural considering
             | feedback like this can be easily perceived as an attack,
             | but GP's response was actually well-worded. You have a lack
             | of empathy _for_ the conditions these people have. That
             | doesn 't mean _you_ are unempathetic. It means your
             | behaviour to these people exhibits a lack of empathy for
             | their condition. That is objectively true.
             | 
             | And it's worthwhile to remember, sometimes people have
             | debilitating conditions that make them worthless for tasks.
             | It is sad that some people are paraplegic. Those people
             | cannot be wildfire firefighters. It's not an excuse or
             | anything. I would not want to pay that person to be a
             | wildfire firefighter because they cannot fight wildfires.
             | If I were paying someone to be a wildfire firefighter, and
             | then they lost all their limbs, I cannot indefinitely
             | employ them as a wildfire firefighter anymore. If they were
             | to say "It's not my fault I don't have limbs", I'd have to
             | say "No, it isn't, but also, you can't fight fires. So I'll
             | fulfill my responsibilities to you, but I can't employ you
             | in this capacity any more".
             | 
             | If someone has ADHD and they can't do a job, then they
             | can't do the job. Any general requirements you have as an
             | employer are to make "reasonable accommodations", not to
             | sit there as your employee sits there on their fourth year
             | of doing nothing because they "have ADHD".
        
               | 0xb0565e486 wrote:
               | Yup, thanks for pointing that out. I did interpret it as
               | "you are an unempathetic person" while that wasn't the
               | case.
        
           | jacques_chester wrote:
           | You should just produce more insulin! You should just not get
           | cancer! Deaf? Just listen harder!
        
         | tmashb wrote:
         | They are human traits when they are relatively easy to
         | overcome, not easy at all with ADHD.
        
         | mbgerring wrote:
         | I had the opposite experience -- for a very, very long time I
         | assumed that a bunch of harmful, chronic behaviors were just a
         | result of some unspecified personal or moral failing on my
         | part. I would beat myself up about it and tell myself to "do
         | better," without a path forward for how to do that.
         | 
         | 2 years ago a friend who was diagnosed with ADHD started
         | describing some of her symptoms and I realized it sounded
         | exactly like what I experience. I started seeking treatment a
         | few months ago (currently therapy, and undergoing screening for
         | medication), and just reading through the list of symptoms
         | while I was filling out a questionnaire recently was like
         | suddenly being able to see color for the first time.
         | 
         | Knowing that what I experience is not just "normal human
         | traits" and is in fact an identifiable disorder with concrete
         | causes and solutions has totally reoriented how I think about
         | some issues I face and has enabled me to actually address them
         | in a way that wasn't possible before.
        
           | forgotmypw17 wrote:
           | i don,t think it is either, but an environment way more
           | demanding than what we previously lived in trying to squeeze
           | every last drop of productivity out of ,,the stock,, and
           | calling anyone who falls short disordered.
        
             | mbgerring wrote:
             | I think that our culture definitely demands more
             | productivity out of people than is reasonable, but that's
             | not really the issue I'm referring to. I'm referring to
             | things like not being able to take my focus away from, for
             | example, reading social media posts, in order to make an
             | appointment or social event on time. Not being able to
             | correctly conceptualize how long it will take me to get
             | ready, leave my house and travel to where I need to be, no
             | matter how many times I've done it. Doing this so often
             | that it hurts friends, family, and work.
             | 
             | I think there is an argument that western medicine
             | sometimes pathologizes people having normal responses to
             | the insane demands of our society and economy. In my case,
             | I have been struggling with my healthcare provider's
             | bureaucracy to get a diagnosis because I really, really
             | need help.
        
         | thevagrant wrote:
         | A doctor I know explained (when treating adults) that not only
         | do they look at symptoms, they look at how the symptoms have
         | affected life outcomes. Being unfocused or late to work
         | sometimes barely scrapes the surface in describing what
         | untreated ADHD can lead to over time.
        
         | afarrell wrote:
         | > the tips can be helpful to everyone
         | 
         | https://medium.com/@mosaicofminds/the-curb-cut-effect-how-ma...
        
           | 0xb0565e486 wrote:
           | That was an interesting read. Thanks!
        
         | pipe2devnull wrote:
         | I have been diagnosed with ADHD and to me it really has been
         | great getting treatment. I think it's unfair to blame
         | everything on ADHD and not take responsibility for anything but
         | for me where I think it's different from someone who doesn't
         | have it is that I was unable to pay attention during lectures
         | for example. Like I really wanted to and the information was
         | still interesting but I still couldn't get myself to pay
         | attention and that caused a lot of anxiety and severely
         | effected my self esteem since I was blaming myself and saying
         | "well you just didn't try hard enough" and things like that.
         | Like most things, ADHD is a spectrum so there is likely a lot
         | of it that goes undiagnosed. A lot of the symptoms are pretty
         | normal human traits but I think how much those traits are
         | present is the big thing.
        
         | busrf wrote:
         | Frequency and severity of those symptoms are considered for the
         | diagnosis. Everyone shows symptoms of depression sometimes; not
         | everyone has depression.
        
       | commandlinefan wrote:
       | > hard time focusing on things that I don't like or want to do
       | 
       | Not trying to be insensitive, but doesn't that describe
       | everybody? At what point does difficulty motivating yourself to
       | do something unpleasant become an actual pathology? I identify
       | with a lot of the symptoms he lists, but I've never thought that
       | meant there was anything "wrong" with me, I thought everybody
       | felt that way. Are there really people out there who can
       | cheerfully do things they don't want to do?
        
         | JHonaker wrote:
         | I didn't get diagnosed until my late 20s, so I feel like I can
         | articulate some of the differences. One of the things that
         | contributed to that is that I am incredibly lucky in that math,
         | statistics, and computer science are the things that most
         | capture my interest. It never really manifested itself in my
         | school work until now, graduate school, where things become a
         | lot more open-ended and self-driven. I need incremental goals
         | or I start to flounder.
         | 
         | I went to the doctor for depression, but she said that it
         | seemed a lot like diagnosed ADHD (which often manifests itself
         | as depression because of dissatisfaction with many aspects of
         | your behavior). Before I start that I'd like to say something
         | that the psychologist that evaluated me told me. The key aspect
         | to ADHD is the dysfunction it causes. I'm not a psychologist or
         | a doctor, but basically the thing that clearly signifies ADHD
         | is the severity of the negative impacts in different aspects of
         | your life.
         | 
         | For me some things that I always hated about myself and
         | frustrated the hell out of other people:
         | 
         | She would ask me to do things and I'd completely forget about
         | them after she left for the day. She'd call on her way home and
         | it would immediately trigger my list of things I was supposed
         | to do. I'd stress out and rush to do them before she got home.
         | It wasn't that I didn't want to do them, or that I didn't care
         | enough to do them. It was that they literally never entered my
         | mind without an external trigger. I tried writing todo lists,
         | and I would just not look at the todo list.
         | 
         | On the opposite end of the spectrum, if something is
         | interesting, I can literally sit in my chair for 20 hours
         | without eating or drinking. If someone tries to talk to me, I
         | literally do not hear them. I don't ignore them, I just don't
         | hear it. This was a lot worse when I lived by myself. I would
         | regularly sit down in the morning to do something and find that
         | I'd completely forgotten to go to class, eat, drink anything,
         | and that it was now 7 in the evening. If I was lucky, then the
         | original task would be complete or almost complete. If I wasn't
         | then I'd spent the last 10 hours weighing the pros and cons of
         | various ways to properly install python on a fresh computer
         | (venv, virtualenv with or without virtualenvwrapper, etc.). For
         | my uses, it literally does not matter, but I've still done this
         | multiple times. I've spent way too much time responding, in
         | excruciating detail, to Reddit/HN comments when all I'm going
         | to get out of it is, "Cool. Thanks."
         | 
         | I know this can sound like standard procrastination, but I
         | absolutely don't want to do these things. I have been in so
         | many arguments about forgotten obligations or accusations of
         | ignoring someone. It's so frustrating. You start to see
         | yourself as someone that's unreliable and incorporate being
         | forgetful and flighty into your own self image.
         | 
         | I and my wife were pretty skeptical at first, but, after my
         | first month on medication, I took care of so many important
         | things that I just hadn't done for years (like applying for the
         | master's degree that I earned as part of my PhD) and got more
         | done on my dissertation than I had in the last four. It's still
         | not easy, but it makes it _easier_ for me. I can actually
         | remember to look at all the lists I make now, and I can stop
         | myself after 10 minutes of an obsessive rabbit hole now instead
         | of after 10 hours when my bladder is bursting.
         | 
         | It's not about cheerfully being able to do things we don't want
         | to do. It's about actually remembering to do them. ADHD isn't
         | about not being able to pay attention to anything. It's about
         | not being able to regulate the things you pay attention to.
         | It's about being able to even out the deeply obsessive
         | blessing/curse attention black hole that is your natural state.
        
         | username90 wrote:
         | > Are there really people out there who can cheerfully do
         | things they don't want to do?
         | 
         | It isn't about cheerfully doing it, it is about most menial
         | tasks being impossible to do without days or even weeks of
         | mental preparation and/or lifestyle changes. Imagine filling
         | out a paper form causing as much anxiety as proposing to the
         | love of your life and you understand better what ADHD feels
         | like. You can learn to live with that, but if you have it you
         | are pretty sure not everyone feels like that all the time.
        
         | tmashb wrote:
         | > I thought everybody felt that way.
         | 
         | Does it incur any impact on your life? Was it a thought or a
         | challenge?
        
         | renewiltord wrote:
         | The same as with anything else: when it becomes debilitating.
         | Observe other problems that are similar:
         | 
         | * Everyone encounters back pain at some point. It's only an
         | illness when acute or chronic.
         | 
         | * Most people have some desire for ordered patterns so lots of
         | people will do things like avoid cracks in tiles because it is
         | satisfying. Not a disorder until you absolutely must not step
         | on a crack or it will cause you to need to go through some
         | ritual.
        
         | ZephyrBlu wrote:
         | To me this makes more sense in conjunction with hyperfocus.
         | 
         | I find it hard to focus on things unless I'm hyperfocused,
         | partly because I'm distracted by the thing I'm hyperfocused on.
         | 
         | I also tend to always be hyperfocused on one thing at a time
         | for a while and then switch over to a new thing.
         | 
         | Things that I may not like or want to do kind of melt away when
         | I'm hyperfocused on something, and feel like they're amplified
         | when I'm not.
        
         | rejectfinite wrote:
         | Fuck you
        
           | tudelo wrote:
           | I'm not gonna lie, OP seemed pretty reasonable here. Why do
           | you feel so angry about his comments? They seemed to come
           | from a place of curiosity and understanding...
        
             | username90 wrote:
             | I think many with ADHD have been mentally abused by people
             | thinking that they were just lazy. I was diagnosed with
             | depression most of my life due to people like that, then
             | suddenly medication magically fixed almost all of those
             | problems and I haven't been that depressed since I got
             | diagnosed and got the medicine.
             | 
             | I'm not saying that we should attack people like that, I'm
             | just explaining why it would induce anger in some so you'd
             | understand better where he comes from.
        
         | Karawebnetwork wrote:
         | Do your motivation problems keep recurring, causing real
         | problems at work/school, at home or in your personal
         | relationships in a way that is beyond your control and that has
         | persisted for more than six months?
         | 
         | If you answer yes to this, I would recommend talking to a
         | professional. No one can diagnose you online (with the
         | exception of professionals offering remote sessions).
        
         | kokey wrote:
         | It's actually a good question. I think the best insight I got
         | on the topic was reading an article once about how to tell the
         | difference between a child being gifted or having ADHD or being
         | both. This is difficult since they often have similar traits,
         | especially having a hard time completing certain menial tasks.
         | The difference is that a gifted child without ADHD can complete
         | these tasks if he likes the teacher giving him the task, while
         | the one with ADHD will still struggle to complete it despite
         | really wanting to do so.
        
         | chickenpotpie wrote:
         | "Depression, isn't that a fancy word for just feeling 'bummed
         | out?'"
         | 
         | But seriously, a lot of conditions are just universal human
         | experiences that are severe enough to impact your daily life.
         | We all get depressed, but we all don't have depression
        
         | brazzledazzle wrote:
         | There's a clinical psychologist that describes it as a disorder
         | in large part characterized by a lack of executive function. In
         | other words, you can't necessarily make yourself do what you're
         | supposed to unless you have a desire to do it. So your desires
         | tend to take priority or distract from your wants or needs. And
         | obviously like all disorders it has to be debilitating to some
         | degree-usually interference with two or more areas in your life
         | (home, professional, school, etc.).
        
         | sudosysgen wrote:
         | There are, of course, levels. For me the difference is between
         | spending 15 hours non-stop programming, or spending two months
         | unable to open a ticket because it's menial, being unable to
         | start important schoolwork that is too menial until 1h before
         | the due date, and so on.
         | 
         | I've been like this since I remember, and I really can't do
         | anything to fix it. It has a large negative effect on my life.
         | But of course, it's not just that, for example often I
         | literally cannot pay attention to a direct interlocutor, or
         | can't keep myself focused during final exams.
        
           | cryptnotic wrote:
           | If you're in university, then you're probably in a place that
           | has resources that can help. Take advantage of them. For
           | example, you may have access to an occupational therapist who
           | can help you improve how you organize and schedule your work,
           | create effective workplace, avoid distractions, etc.
           | Medication may also help, but it works best in conjunction
           | with active behavioral changes.
        
             | username90 wrote:
             | There is no substitute for medication. For me a life
             | without medication is a life of hating myself for not being
             | able to do trivial things.
             | 
             | I tried all of those things you mentioned for over a decade
             | and was often driven to tears trying to do simple things. I
             | never did assignments for courses etc, causing some of my
             | grades to stay bad even though I did great on the tests
             | since tests kicks up your adrenaline making it easier to
             | focus. Not because I didn't care about the grades but
             | because I simply couldn't do the assignments. Then I got
             | medication and suddenly everything in college and later
             | work just became trivial. I stay on the lowest dosage and
             | that is still enough for me to stay at normal levels of
             | focus where I can program for a few hours a day when I need
             | to do it to keep my job and earn money.
             | 
             | So, since medication has been so life changing for me I
             | really hate when people say that you can manage ADHD
             | symptoms just with lifestyle changes. Maybe in some cases,
             | but many people absolutely need medication and discouraging
             | such people from receiving it will ruin lives.
        
       | jayonsoftware1 wrote:
       | I am very good at creating detail To-Do list and I am on Adderall
       | thus I can concentrate but my biggest issue is doing the most
       | important tasks on the To Do list. These tasks may be things I do
       | not like to do but I have to to do. The feeling is like an
       | invisible rope has tied my hands. Been suffering with this for a
       | long time, has affected my life a lot and still cant find a
       | solution.
        
         | saisundar wrote:
         | I usually schedule these on my calendar as small self-contained
         | chunks, scoped to 25 minutes (recursively break the next
         | actionable step into it)
         | 
         | That has helped me a bit in making progress on things that are
         | important, but not really exciting, such as documentation.
         | 
         | Mandatory Note, this does not work, if you have a lot of such
         | things to do,in which a team or role change would help.
        
       | O_H_E wrote:
       | Anybody else here thinks their ADHD influences some hoarding
       | tendencies or fear-of-missing-out? I am basically a tab-opening
       | machine. Whenever I come across any link that I _feel might_ be
       | helpful in some point in the future, I open it in the background
       | knowing full well that I don 't have time to look at it soon.
       | 
       | Thank god for TheGreatSuspender, and SessionBuddy extentions.
        
         | Karawebnetwork wrote:
         | > TheGreatSuspender
         | 
         | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25846504
        
         | hmottestad wrote:
         | FYI. Something something something the great suspender stealing
         | all your data.
        
           | philsnow wrote:
           | not just the great suspender, but any browser extension that
           | both                   1. asks for permissions like "Read and
           | change all your data on the websites that you visit" / "Read
           | and change your browsing history", and         2. either
           | a. auto-updates, or           b. includes by reference code
           | that isn't contained in the extension bundle (so it could
           | change day to day)
           | 
           | "any extension" because popular extension developers
           | regularly get offers to include extra code in their
           | extensions, see e.g. https://old.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/1
           | vjj51/i_am_one_of_th...
        
         | renewiltord wrote:
         | Possible, but here's an n=1 counterexample, I have a positive
         | diagnosis and whether on medication or off it I strongly desire
         | fewer tabs. Sometimes I'll over-close and have to Ctrl-Shift-T.
        
         | aidenn0 wrote:
         | My personal thoughts are that it's a learned behavior; you know
         | that you won't ever _remember_ to check out that link later
         | (like someone without ADHD might), so you open the tab as a
         | defense against forgetting.
        
         | rejectfinite wrote:
         | I am not diagnosed with ADHD. I do however have 400 tabs open
         | in Firefox and about 30 in Edge.
        
         | devmunchies wrote:
         | Yes. I'm an information hoarder. Tabs and books. I have a long
         | running daily log i keep for tasks and thoughts where I'll
         | paste links so I don't have to keep the browser open. I can't
         | bookmark because I never see them again.
        
       | chewxy wrote:
       | Getting chemically treated for ADHD is one of the life-changing
       | moments for me. I spent most of my teen years learning "good
       | habits" thru counseling and all that jazz. It wasn't until I
       | started Vyvanse that all those "good habits" that was taught to
       | me actually made sense. All the meditation practice actually got
       | put to good use when it comes to controlling anger.
       | 
       | I do wish I hadn't waited 15+ years between diagnosis and
       | medication, because it is life changing. I can now read HN/reddit
       | without getting sucked into a vortex of endlessness. Pomodoro
       | actually works. And the inner chatter, they still exist. The TVs
       | in the head are still on with all the channels going at once. But
       | you now have a remote control with a mute key and you get to
       | choose which channel you wanna focus on.
       | 
       | p/s if you're Aussie, Vyvanse is now on PBS so you no longer need
       | to pay $100+ a month - rather it's now $6 to $40 depending on
       | your cirumstances.
        
         | I_AM_A_SMURF wrote:
         | Yep same here. Medication finally made me understand the anger
         | issues that I have due to ADHD.
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | incomplete wrote:
       | full blown ADHDer here... diagnosed and on meds from 2-6th grade,
       | and then started again in my early 40s and on them now.
       | 
       | some comments about this article:
       | 
       | 1) i fsking HATE when people self-diagnose and then trumpet to
       | the world that they're almost certain they have ADHD. if you
       | think you've got it, go find a clinical psychologist and get
       | tested.
       | 
       | 2) he's done a great job of regimenting his life. this is really,
       | really important for me to do and helps a lot (until something
       | distracts me, like a squirrel)
       | 
       | 3) removing distractions is SUPER important. i was a musician for
       | large portions of my life, and i can't listen to anything when
       | i'm working.
       | 
       | 4) meds can help, a lot. they help me. a lot. i use them daily,
       | but take 'breaks' when i'm sick, on vacation, etc. i'm one of the
       | 'usual' people that doesn't have side effects and i definitely
       | don't get a 'high' feeling.
       | 
       | anyways, i liked the article, and he has some really great points
       | and routines. but i still wish he'd gotten tested before posting.
       | :)
        
       | xyzzy_plugh wrote:
       | A lot of comments here are warning about the addictive properties
       | of stimulant medications.
       | 
       | For folks without ADHD, you should know that stimulants, like
       | Ritalin and Adderall, do not _usually_ cause the same response as
       | in non-ADHD people. I 've spoken with many people on stimulants,
       | and none of them enjoy taking the medication, beyond what it has
       | done to improve their lives. Furthermore, most ADHD people
       | develop tolerance to medication over long periods of time --
       | eventually the drug does little-to-nothing itself. For myself,
       | taking even high doses of a Adderall regularly produces no result
       | -- might as well be taking sugar pills. I have to take them
       | periodically (a few times a week at most) to get any sort of
       | benefit.
       | 
       | The proper medication and dosage should not make you feel "high"
       | -- if anything it's almost the opposite. You get some clarity, an
       | ability to direct your focus without a thousand distractions a
       | minute, and perhaps even a sense of time.
       | 
       | I let some non-ADHD friends try a low dose of Ritalin when I had
       | switched off of it and had some left over, and they were bouncing
       | off the fucking walls -- I would strongly not recommend taking
       | stimulants unless medically necessary.
       | 
       | For people with ADHD, they can be truly life saving. For
       | recreational use, avoid.
        
         | hnick wrote:
         | Do doctors suggest some kind of cycling regime? I'd imagine I
         | would probably take it on weekdays, then skip it on weekends
         | and holidays. Not sure if that would be enough though.
        
           | cwkoss wrote:
           | I believe 'weekends off' is a common suggestion from doctors
           | prescribing these types of medications for ADHD
        
         | bootstrapping wrote:
         | I'll echo this; I'm a serial founder who was diagnosed with
         | ADHD in his mid-forties. The stimulant medications do not make
         | me "high", do not provide any kind of buzz. Rather, they have a
         | moderating effect. Explaining this requires correcting the
         | misunderstandings in the public realm of how adult ADHD
         | presents, but in nutshell:
         | 
         | * The (largely mental) hyperactivity is controllable, that is,
         | I retain my creative ideas generation and interest in new
         | things, but I am no longer governed by it, and
         | 
         | * The rarely discussed _hyperfocus_ behaviour (which I frankly
         | regard as a superpower) is more easily snapped out of.
         | 
         | To the uninformed, the most paradoxical outcome is that I can
         | take a powerful stimulant medication, lie down in bed, and fall
         | asleep easily, when normally I'd be staring at the ceiling
         | pondering anything from CSS to soldering and unable to sleep
         | for the rush of ideas.
         | 
         | This response to medication is not diagnostic, but it is
         | indicative that the medication I have is correct. Moreover it
         | allows me to both retain the two traits that have made me a
         | successful systems maker, but permits a less chaotic engagement
         | with the neurotypical-oriented processes of modern human
         | society, so for example I renew my passport before it expires.
         | 
         | I self-medicated with a variety of over-the-counter substances
         | for decades, including nicotine, sugar, and coffee. I am super
         | grateful for the medication since I have now dropped the
         | nicotine and sugar.
         | 
         | My psychiatrist believes the condition is a) misnamed, and
         | would be better titled "Attention Difference Disorder", and b)
         | points out that the twin traits of rapid ideas switching and
         | hyperfocus are only a problem in some aspects of engagement
         | with modern society and that in an pre-agrarian society they'd
         | be excellent traits for a hunter.
        
           | incomplete wrote:
           | i generally hate short, banal replies, but here we go:
           | 
           | this. all of this. yes. :)
        
             | ADHDthrow2323 wrote:
             | I second that.
        
         | ehwhyreally wrote:
         | For me, Ritalin works as it should, just focusing.
         | dextroamphetamine on the other hand gets me all hyped up.
        
           | AnthonBerg wrote:
           | The difference between people is so subtle and so profound.
           | For me, dextroamphetamine brings a still and composed
           | calmness upon the world. Not euphora, just a calmness.
        
         | Diederich wrote:
         | I have ADHD, and I've been treating it with meds for over 15
         | years now.
         | 
         | > dosage should not make you feel "high" -- if anything it's
         | almost the opposite
         | 
         | Even when I was young and fit, many years before I started
         | taking any meds, my blood pressure and pulse rate were
         | consistently on the high side. I've always had what could be
         | called somewhat of a 'jittery' or 'high strung' personality.
         | 
         | In my 30s, I started taking a low dose of Ritalin, and it made
         | a hell of a difference. For the first time in my life, I was
         | actually, fundamentally calm. I gathered some pretty detailed
         | data over a pretty long period of time, and there was an iron-
         | clad correlation: when the Ritalin was in my blood stream, my
         | blood pressure and heart rate were lower.
         | 
         | > most ADHD people develop tolerance to medication over long
         | periods of time
         | 
         | From the beginning, in order to defend against this
         | possibility, I always took the meds sparingly, only on work
         | days, and not all of them. For a number of years, I organized
         | my schedule around taking the meds three days a week. On those
         | three days, I did most of my deeper, focused software
         | development. On the other work days, I'd focus more on
         | meetings, digging into operational issues, troubleshooting,
         | basically everything except deep focused software development.
         | 
         | Prior to starting the meds, I had many successful years in
         | technology at various organizations. That continued after the
         | meds, but with one big difference: while I was able to sit down
         | and focus before the meds, it took an enormous amount of effort
         | and energy. I'd come home from work and immediately nap for an
         | hour before waking up with enough mental energy to go about the
         | rest of my evening.
         | 
         | On the meds, my total ability to focus was roughly the same,
         | but it didn't take nearly as much energy. A 9 hour day at work
         | would not leave me drained.
         | 
         | I've always had the fortune of having the prescribing docs
         | break up my maximum daily meds into many small dosed tablets,
         | which gave me a lot of flexibility.
         | 
         | Thankfully, after all this time, the meds still work very well
         | for me.
        
         | xyzzy_plugh wrote:
         | I'll add that the first doctor I went to see about my issues
         | made it clear that he was willing to prescribe me stimulants
         | without a strong diagnosis, which frankly disturbed me greatly.
         | 
         | I had to make it clear I was interested in pursuing a proper
         | diagnosis, and that I wasn't just looking for some help to
         | "cram" for a test or something, which apparently would have
         | been good enough for a prescription.
         | 
         | Getting a proper diagnosis is a royal pain in the ass, but
         | worth it. You shouldn't be screwing around with these drugs for
         | fun.
        
         | renewiltord wrote:
         | Yeah, my first adderall came from a friend who uses it to
         | party. I can't see how. It makes me much quieter. Partying on
         | it is something I can't even imagine.
        
           | xyzzy_plugh wrote:
           | No kidding. I don't even mix it with caffeine because it
           | makes me feel terrible. Alcohol is tolerable, but I still try
           | to avoid mixing stuff. Luckily most of it's out of my system
           | by the evenings anyways.
        
           | [deleted]
        
       | throwaway713 wrote:
       | > Minimizing menial tasks. Menial tasks really suck. I know
       | everyone must hate doing these, but to put it into perspective, I
       | would rather do 20 hours of really really hard work on a tough
       | project than do 5 hours of menial tasks
       | 
       | Interesting. I have ADHD (inattentive subtype) and am quite the
       | opposite. My apartment is never cleaner than when I have an
       | extremely important, open-ended project with multiple
       | stakeholders to address. Seriously, I end up dusting the screws
       | that hold up the door frames.
        
         | I_AM_A_SMURF wrote:
         | My completely ignorant theory is that it's still about "can
         | only do the things I really like to do" part of ADHD. I also
         | like to clean up my place because of the sense of
         | accomplishment that it gives me (especially when at work I
         | don't feel like I'm making progress because I spent all day
         | coaching/meetings/etc) but not everyone might feel like that, I
         | can definitely think of someone with ADHD that doesn't like to
         | clean up the same way I don't like plan my meals (please don't
         | make me do it).
        
         | rootsudo wrote:
         | That's exactly why menial tasks suck, they are a
         | procrastination enabler vs unable to get into "flow" to
         | accomplish more interesting/complicated tasks.
        
           | jrowley wrote:
           | I think the parent commenter would say that open ended nature
           | of the task makes it not menial - so they procrastinate
           | because it's very hard to get started. Its discrete, not a
           | single ticket that's easier to focus on and get info flow
           | state with.
        
         | ardy42 wrote:
         | I'm like the OP. The distinction I make is:
         | 
         | 1) A tough project can be engrossing. Getting started is always
         | tough, but after that it's relatively easy to keep up momentum.
         | 
         | 2) Menial tasks are not engrossing and are usually quick, so
         | they require a level of attention control to stay focused on
         | them that I'm just not capable of. It's like "getting started"
         | over and over.
        
         | athorax wrote:
         | For me, it is the "open-ended" part of a project that really
         | ends up screwing me. If I don't have a definitive task/goal to
         | work towards that is when I start to procrastinate
        
           | hi_hello wrote:
           | So much. Open-ended or poorly defined projects can really
           | spiral into attentive dysphoria for me. Productive
           | procrastination - room cleaning and the like - is
           | particularly appealing in that state, just to feel like I'm
           | making progress on something.
        
             | xyzzy_plugh wrote:
             | The best manager I ever had set it up like so, he'd go:
             | 
             | Here's a large, open-ended problem I want you to solve this
             | quarter. I'll secretly wait while you fix a thousand other
             | unrelated problems that make our business better despite
             | making no visible progress on the open-ended problem. Then
             | I'll reframe your work to show management that the thousand
             | other things you improved are more valuable than the open-
             | ended problem, and get you promoted.
             | 
             | I miss that guy.
        
           | heroHACK17 wrote:
           | Man, I am the same way. How have you coped with this? I work
           | in a pretty open-ended environment without a lot of
           | processes, so you can imagine it has been a struggle for me.
           | I have tried to create tickets for myself but I seem to also
           | struggle with defining the "done" state.
        
             | renewiltord wrote:
             | Not super related, but a friend of mine recently said "If
             | you're the kind of person who is satisfied by a large task
             | list, you shouldn't make todos. If you're the kind of
             | person who hates them, you should."
             | 
             | It seems obvious after it being mentioned, but I noticed a
             | useful corollary: a list of done tasks actually makes me
             | unhappy. So I avoid todo pages where a done list is
             | visible. Hiding done tasks (i.e. archiving done cards on
             | Trello, deleting a row on your todo list instead of
             | strikethrough), etc. has led me to use it better.
             | 
             | This isn't your problem, clearly, but just wanted to share
             | a useful tip.
        
             | hnick wrote:
             | Maybe the concept of the "wall of awful" will help you
             | understand it more. I struggle with it too though.
             | 
             | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uo08uS904Rg
        
             | JohnBooty wrote:
             | Same boat. It's not a magic cure, but my semi-okay-coping
             | mechanism is to make daily to-do lists.
             | 
             | The key though, is not just "making to-do lists".... it's
             | right-sizing the items on them.
             | 
             | Every task should have a finite end state and (this is
             | crucial) shouldn't be longer than 15-20 minutes or so. If
             | they are longer than that, it almost certainly needs to be
             | broken down into constituent tasks.
             | 
             | So even something like "clean my office" probably needs to
             | be broken down a little more -- when I'm on my game I break
             | it down into "vac office", "dust office", "organize desk
             | drawer", etc.
             | 
             | This pairs nicely with the "Pomodoro method" if you've ever
             | tried it.
        
             | delecti wrote:
             | My only strategy for that problem is to break things down
             | as much as possible into subtasks. That helps because I'm
             | at least more likely to get _something_ done if there 's a
             | list of things I can weigh the terribleness of. As the GP
             | comment said that they'd clean their apartment rather than
             | get work done, I'll do the tasks with more clarity to
             | procrastinate doing the tasks with more ambiguity.
             | Eventually, doing the tasks with clarity help clear up the
             | ambiguity in the others.
        
           | devoutsalsa wrote:
           | I struggle when there isn't enough work to do, and when I do
           | scrounge up work, it ends up being non-meaningful work.
        
           | dmarchand90 wrote:
           | For me the worst part is when I have a combination of short
           | urgent tasks and an open ended one. The open ended task
           | always ends up being pushed aside
        
             | athorax wrote:
             | My support request queue has been routinely emptied this
             | week exactly because of that haha
        
           | jasonlotito wrote:
           | Oh, I know this problem. Happens quite often.
           | 
           | A technique I use is to break down the project into smaller
           | pieces. What's the smallest well-defined task/goal I can work
           | toward. Even if it's just setting up the repo, or writing out
           | a README. It's amazing how often this little step can help
           | kick things off.
        
             | athorax wrote:
             | Definitely. It is one of the reasons I enjoy working in a 2
             | week sprint setting (all other reasons aside). It forces me
             | to really break tasks down to actionable items
        
         | curiousllama wrote:
         | I'm 100% the same - I once accidentally trained for a marathon.
        
         | 01100011 wrote:
         | Yeah I feel like I hide in those tasks to achieve a sense of
         | accomplishment while also avoiding the uncomfortable task I
         | should be working on. Then again, those tasks help me pass the
         | time until the deadline for the important task is close enough
         | to generate the fear/anxiety necessary for me to work on it.
        
       | madamelic wrote:
       | Fellow ADHD person:
       | 
       | Get diagnosed and get a low-dose of meds. It helps _a lot_. You
       | will likely hate the feeling they give you for the first week
       | (you will genuinely feel high even on 10mg Adderall XR), along
       | with nightmares and night sweats but after a few weeks, you'll
       | suddenly be productive at a very normal level.
       | 
       | I don't feel strung out nor is it some addiction. Ignore the
       | people screaming about Adderall being "literal meth" and how it
       | will certainly kill you. Even with an addictive personality, it's
       | very easy to avoid over-doing it (hint: only take it as
       | prescribed).
       | 
       | Medication is intended as a stop-gap to build a system so you
       | won't need high doses forever. If you go into thinking meds are
       | all that needs to be done, you are going about it wrong. You need
       | to build a system and reflect on how to improve your baseline
       | productivity and keep yourself on rails (planners, calendars,
       | checking your work, reviewing work with a fresh mind before
       | sending out, etc).
       | 
       | Additionally, it does help if you like what you are doing. I'd
       | imagine ADHD is much easier to maintain if you are self-employed
       | or have a large leeway to define how work gets done or what work
       | gets done. If you are in a command-and-control / top-down power
       | structure, you need to leave; you'll never thrive there and will
       | ultimately get tossed out.
       | 
       | Lastly, caffeine does help from my testing, especially caffeine
       | combined with L-Theanine. I used to take 100mg of HVMN "Sprint"
       | pills as a test whether I had ADHD; it helped quite a bit. It
       | didn't make me jittery and it let me focus much better.
        
         | renewiltord wrote:
         | How strange. My initial dose made me feel almost sleepy. I'm
         | usually high-energy at night time, but now I go to bed before
         | midnight.
        
         | krrrh wrote:
         | > caffeine does help from my testing, especially caffeine
         | combined with L-Theanine.
         | 
         | One thing that made me look into adderall was finding out I was
         | a slow metabolizer of caffeine via 23andme, and was consuming
         | an unhealthy level of caffeine. I did some research and
         | determined that the health risks of low doses of adderall were
         | smaller than those of high doses of caffeine.
         | 
         | Scott Alexander's review of the research on Adderall are also
         | worth reading:
         | 
         | https://slatestarcodex.com/2017/12/28/adderall-risks-much-mo...
        
           | madamelic wrote:
           | >the health risks of low doses of adderall were smaller than
           | those of high doses of caffeine.
           | 
           | I hadn't seen that before, so thank you!
           | 
           | I ran into this same thing accidentally, I was regularly
           | 'overdosing' on caffeine by drinking 300 - 400mg of caffeine
           | per day in college.
           | 
           | The safe dosage is ~200mg for an adult if I recall, but I can
           | only do about 100 - 125mg absolute max or my heart starts
           | pounding. I am not sure if this lowered limit is due to
           | 'abuse' or if I also have different caffeine metabolization.
           | I will have to take a look at my data.
        
             | rejectfinite wrote:
             | >The safe dosage is ~200mg for an adult if I recall
             | 
             | No? It is 400mg
             | 
             | https://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-lifestyle/nutrition-
             | and-h...
        
             | krrrh wrote:
             | Yeah, without diving back into it myself right now, the
             | health effects of caffeine are quite different depending on
             | a single SNP. For fast metabolizers some doses of caffeine
             | above 300mg/day can actually have net positive effects on
             | cardiac health, while the opposite is true for slow
             | metabolizers. I got into a habit of 400mg+ doses per day
             | and the cumulative effect that had on sleep quality alone
             | was a good reason to find an alternative.
             | 
             | I completely agree with your comments about looking for
             | opportunities to use medication to bootstrap into better
             | habits around exercise, mindfulness, and building better
             | systems and habits.
        
         | disabled wrote:
         | > Lastly, caffeine does help from my testing, especially
         | caffeine combined with L-Theanine. I used to take 100mg of HVMN
         | "Sprint" pills as a test whether I had ADHD; it helped quite a
         | bit. It didn't make me jittery and it let me focus much better.
         | 
         | Caffeine is an adenosine A2A receptor antagonist.
         | 
         | See:
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adenosine_A2A_receptor_antagon...
         | 
         | You may want to check out this paper, Adenosine A2Areceptor as
         | potential therapeutic target in neuropsychiatric disorders:
         | https://scihubtw.tw/10.1016/j.phrs.2019.104338
         | 
         | Caffeine has a problem though:
         | 
         | > Moreover, considering that caffeine has a half-life of
         | 2.5-4.5 hours [137]the once-a-day schedule of administration
         | used in clinical trials in ADHD patients could be insufficient
         | to antagonize A2AR throughout the day; thus, in future trials
         | different administration schedules should be used or, as an
         | alternative, selective A2AR antagonists could be tested in
         | animal models of ADHD. In particular, it would be interesting
         | to test the efficacy of the A2AR antagonist istradefylline in
         | view of its approval for the treatment of Parkinson's disease
         | in Japan [138].
         | 
         | Ironically, I just started taking Nourianz (istradefylline)
         | (link: https://www.nourianz.com/) as a last-resort drug for my
         | severe restless legs syndrome, which has been going
         | phenomenally well. I also have ADHD combined type (inattention
         | and hyperactivity), and fairly severely.
         | 
         | Anyways, I have been taking the the istradefylline for a week
         | now, and it has made a tremendous difference in many of my ADHD
         | symptoms. In addition, it greatly increased my sense of
         | wellbeing within 1-2 hours of initially taking it, and it has
         | been sustained for the entire week.
         | 
         | I hope you find this interesting! I take Vyvanse for my ADHD.
         | 
         | Thanks to istradefylline I can now focus seamlessly and without
         | effort. I can just "lock in" to whatever I want to do. Before,
         | it would require some static force ("friction") to be able to
         | "lock in" my concentration to do the task. I can also just
         | focus, without hyperfocusing. It now comes naturally to me. I
         | also no longer find myself pacing around the house aimlessly. I
         | also do not randomly get up from my seat or fidget hardcore. I
         | can also lock back into a flow state without effort if I am
         | disrupted.
        
         | schoolornot wrote:
         | I'm still not sold on the medication and prefer to follow
         | strict routines + good diet + exercise. To me, it's obvious who
         | is taking ADHD pills. People are almost zombie like or they
         | space out, or even on low-doses they almost can't "keep up" in
         | conversation or meetings. Not being drugged and finding coping
         | mechanisms has allowed me to plow through multiple degrees and
         | find career success, albeit at the cost of "other things",
         | relationships, social skills, health, etc. I'm not going to
         | risk my livelihood when life is good-enough atm.
        
           | jdgoesmarching wrote:
           | You prefer to do the exact things that people with ADHD
           | struggle with. This is like saying "for depression I prefer
           | to just not be sad."
           | 
           | It wasn't until after I was diagnosed and medicated that I
           | finished my undergrad after almost a decade, started my
           | career, and started grad school. You do you, but don't be
           | sanctimonious about mental health treatment based on your
           | anecdotes.
        
           | knowhy wrote:
           | I got diagnosed with ADHD age 15. Methylphenidate gave me
           | these zombie like spacing out symptoms. I later switched to
           | Amphetamine and didn't feel the negative side effects of
           | Methylphenidate.
           | 
           | Methylphenidate is the only authorized substance for ADHD
           | treatment here in Germany. I had to pay for my Amphetamine
           | treatment by myself. I had the impression that the
           | pharmaceutical industry doesn't have an interest in getting
           | an authorization for amphetamines as that substance can be
           | produced by a local pharmacy on site. Even thou I can confirm
           | that the side effects are much less with amphetamines.
           | 
           | Now age 35 I haven't taken any medications for ADHD for 8 or
           | 9 years. It was good to help me with school and university
           | but now I don't need to put myself into a position where
           | medication could be helpful. Still wouldn't want to work in
           | an open floor plan office. Not sure if that is an medical
           | condition.
        
             | adhsdeutschland wrote:
             | Amphetamine got authorised in Germany a year ago in the
             | form of Lisdexamphetamine under the name of Elvanse:
             | https://www.adhspedia.de/wiki/Elvanse_Adult
             | 
             | I got it from my doctor and have been taking it for a year
             | after trying Methylphenidate which did not show any
             | positive effect on me.
        
           | madamelic wrote:
           | Good for you, I am glad you have found something that works
           | for you.
           | 
           | It is inappropriate and rude to assume what others need. I am
           | the complete opposite of what you assume on Adderall, I am
           | more verbose, my thoughts are more coherent and I can keep up
           | with meetings because I can actually pay attention to them.
           | The first time my spouse heard me conduct an interview after
           | medications, he told me how much more cohesive, steady and
           | assured my speaking was.
           | 
           | It helps no one, not even yourself, to tear down someone else
           | because they are using a different solution than you.
        
           | q3k wrote:
           | > People are almost zombie like or they space out, or even on
           | low-doses they almost can't "keep up" in conversation or
           | meetings.
           | 
           | What you describe sounds more like symptoms of untreated ADHD
           | rather than treated ADHD.
        
             | novok wrote:
             | Or sleep deprivation...
        
               | aidenn0 wrote:
               | People who are sleep deprived will actually have many of
               | the symptoms of ADHD; poor subjective sense of time,
               | difficulty focusing, &c.
        
             | borski wrote:
             | This is exactly what I was thinking.
        
           | xyzzy_plugh wrote:
           | This comment strikes me as full of ignorance.
           | 
           | Strict routines? Good diet? Exercise???
           | 
           | Good luck doing any of these if you have even moderate ADHD.
           | It's hard enough getting out of bed.
           | 
           | As a sibling mentions, your description of people who are
           | "drugged" sounds more like people who have undiagnosed-ADHD
           | and are not medicated.
           | 
           | The drugs don't make you drugged -- that's sorta the default
           | state. The drugs make you functional enough to try and
           | develop coping mechanisms in the first place.
        
           | borski wrote:
           | ADHD medication has different effects on people, and you'll
           | know very quickly what it's effect is on you. Furthermore, it
           | does not make me spaced out or zombie like, nor does it make
           | me strung out. It simply calms my brain down so I can
           | actually focus on the problem at hand, rather than the
           | opposite of that, with my brain flitting back and forth with
           | other thoughts.
           | 
           | I don't take it on a day when I'm being creative or
           | brainstorming, because the lateral thinking required does
           | that is actually something ADD _helps_ , but I take it when I
           | _have to get something done_.
           | 
           | Take it from a guy who has had ample coping mechanisms, got a
           | CS degree from MIT, founded and sold a security startup,
           | etc.; all of those coping mechanisms worked, but got much
           | easier once I accepted the ADD and found the right meds. It
           | only made me more productive and a better contributing member
           | of the team.
           | 
           | YMMV, but I suspect your assumptions about how it affects
           | people are very wrong.
        
           | bpye wrote:
           | > they space out, or even on low-doses they almost can't
           | "keep up" in conversation or meetings
           | 
           | For some of us this is the experience without any medication.
           | I still get this now with medication, but it's definitely
           | less frequent.
        
         | imesh wrote:
         | > I don't feel strung out nor is it some addiction. Ignore the
         | people screaming about Adderall being "literal meth" and how it
         | will certainly kill you. Even with an addictive personality,
         | it's very easy to avoid over-doing it (hint: only take it as
         | prescribed).
         | 
         | Low dose meth does work pretty similar to Adderall. Everyone
         | who does meth does not become a meth addict. Most don't. But
         | the people who become meth addicts are the same people who end
         | up using adderall like methheads.
         | 
         | Which is why I personally don't have an Adderall prescription.
         | Because if I have a bottle of Adderall I'm going to attempt a
         | prescribed dose on day one and start snorting it by day three.
        
           | sudosysgen wrote:
           | Low dose meth has a lot of similarities but quite a few,
           | significant, differences to Adderall. The biggest are tropism
           | and release.
           | 
           | Statistically, because of the addictive effects of untreated
           | ADHD, the likelihood of substance addiction with or without
           | amphetamine treatment is almost equal. There is of course a
           | risk of getting addicted to Adderall, but amphetamines with
           | long releases are not very addictive as far as drugs go and
           | the risk of getting addicted to other things is drastically
           | reduced.
           | 
           | Methamphetamine as used illegally is a lot more addictive
           | than Adderall because it is generally consumed in ways that
           | lead to much more immediate effects and not orally, and even
           | when orally it is generally formulated to be released more
           | quickly. More rapid effects seriously increase addiction
           | potential.
           | 
           | The doses are also much smaller for Adderall than meth in 99%
           | of cases.
           | 
           | Because of these factors, methamphetamine is much more
           | addictive than pharmaceutical amphetamine salts.
        
           | falcolas wrote:
           | To paraphrase, "I think adderall is kinda like meth, so it's
           | obviously addictive."
           | 
           | The fuck?
           | 
           | Adderall is one of _many_ medical options for treating ADHD.
           | Not all of which are stimulants. And some of which are
           | chemically designed so they _can 't_ be abused (like
           | Vyvance).
           | 
           | EDIT: The OP pulled the "in my opinion" phrasing from their
           | post, but I'm going leave mine as-is. There's a lot of
           | anecdote based FUD about ADHD meds going on in these threads,
           | and it makes me mad. My above thoughts stand.
        
             | driverdan wrote:
             | Adderall is 100% addictive and is like meth but with less
             | bio-availability and neurotoxicity.
             | 
             | All stimulants are addictive and you will have physical
             | side effects from discontinuing use.
        
         | ryandrake wrote:
         | This is a super-edge-case but if you happen to want to be a
         | pilot (either small planes all the way up to airlines), the FAA
         | considers ADHD and other attention-deficit conditions to be
         | disqualifying. If you're taking medication for ADHD or similar
         | conditions and want to be a pilot, you're dead in the water
         | until you get off them and can show that you don't have some
         | kind of attention difficulty. FYI!
        
           | madamelic wrote:
           | Almost any medical condition disqualifies you. Almost any
           | medication taken regularly does too.
           | 
           | I am interested in getting my private pilot's license and I
           | _should_ be able to get a Class 3 Medical from what I've
           | seen, but that will be a bit away so I have time.
           | 
           | What I've seen and heard from others is to just lie. Seems
           | like many have gotten to the point of realizing trying to do
           | it right is only going to put you in months of bureaucracy
           | and spend thousands proving your viability.
           | 
           | The FAA needs to figure out how to either commission studies
           | to reduce their list of disqualifications or streamline the
           | process of appealing your medical certification.
        
           | jacques_chester wrote:
           | Personally, as a person with ADHD, I am fine with that
           | restriction.
        
           | renewiltord wrote:
           | Fascinating, but appears to make sense. Hopefully, some day
           | we will be able to quantify the difference so that people
           | like me (who do worry that they can't stay on top of all the
           | details in a plane) are excluded from flying1 while other
           | people who have a similar condition to mine but are capable
           | of flying are allowed to do so.
           | 
           | 1 As much as I want to.
        
         | falcolas wrote:
         | > caffeine does help from my testing
         | 
         | My doctor put it this way: Caffeine triggers a useful dopamine
         | response, but the side effects are strong at "useful" levels.
         | 
         | Ritalin and Adderall provide a stronger dopamine response with
         | fewer side effects at "useful" levels.
         | 
         | They're all stimulants, but the magnitude of the useful vs.
         | non-useful effects differs.
        
         | sneak wrote:
         | Counter-anecdata here: meds aren't always the best option for
         | people. Don't bias toward taking amphetamines as the parent
         | comment instructs you to do.
         | 
         | There are serious negative long-term effects from taking
         | amphetamines regularly. Such advice as above is very one-size-
         | fits-all, and in my view is thus really bad advice.
         | 
         | > _Ignore the people screaming about Adderall being "literal
         | meth" and how it will certainly kill you._
         | 
         | You can ignore those people because they're wrong, amphetamine
         | is not methamphetamine. But do not ignore the people who tell
         | you that even normal amphetamines (adderall) are not harmless.
         | They cause harm, even at low doses.
         | 
         | The harm they cause may be mitigated by the benefit they bring;
         | it may also be extremely difficult to estimate their harm in
         | advance. Ceasing regular use of amphetamines for some people
         | can result in subsequent YEARS of oversleeping, lethargy, and
         | depression from dopamine receptor downregulation.
         | 
         | > _I don 't feel strung out nor is it some addiction._
         | 
         | Amphetamines are a highly addictive substance, if you are
         | taking them every day it is likely that your body has developed
         | at least _some_ physical dependence upon them. Addiction doesn
         | 't make itself known until you stop.
        
           | madamelic wrote:
           | I do agree that it can cause harm long term. It's the same
           | with all medications, that's why I pay doctors to prescribe
           | medication and monitor my health while taking it. I already
           | have physicals every six months because of another condition.
           | With the Adderall, I get blood pressure taken monthly and an
           | EKG every three months.
           | 
           | The goal of almost any medication is to create a stop gap to
           | create or find non-medication solutions. Without Adderall, I
           | can't focus on creating systems and tools to help me stay on
           | track.
           | 
           | Demonizing Adderall isn't helping anyone. No one should be
           | afraid of taking a medication that will change their life for
           | the better. If someone goes through normal channels and gets
           | properly prescribed it, they should be treated no different
           | than any other ailment.
        
             | sneak wrote:
             | I didn't demonize anything, and if you think I did, you
             | should probably re-read my comment dispassionately and stop
             | trying to do battle on the internet.
             | 
             | Your comment opens with:
             | 
             | > _Get diagnosed and get a low-dose of meds._
             | 
             | Immediately suggesting that someone seek a somewhat
             | dangerous medication as a solution, without qualification,
             | is an extreme and dangerous view. "You have ADD so you
             | should try low doses of speed!" is not wisdom. There is a
             | reason that these are prescribed by doctors, and monitored.
        
               | madamelic wrote:
               | One requires getting diagnosed to get medication. I am
               | not advocating buying Adderall from a dealer. I am
               | encouraging people not to be afraid to pursue the
               | medication route because it is so demonized.
               | 
               | Medication helps a lot. You could struggle with no
               | medication, trying to build a system to help yourself,
               | possibly fail and never be who you can be or you can seek
               | out professional help (potentially with medication) and
               | begin building support today and have a good shot.
               | 
               | ---
               | 
               | Would you say the same if I encouraged a depressed person
               | to do their best to get diagnosed and get on 'anti-
               | depressants'? I am doubtful.
               | 
               | We have invented medication for a reason. People go to
               | decades of med school for a reason. Medical professionals
               | know what they are doing and are very upfront about it
               | not being a panacea and needing to still work on non-
               | medication solutions (as with any medication).
               | 
               | I will admit my first sentence ("Get diagnosed and get a
               | low-dose of meds") was too strong to start with.
        
               | sneak wrote:
               | > _Would you say the same if I encouraged a depressed
               | person to do their best to get diagnosed and get on
               | 'anti-depressants'? I am doubtful._
               | 
               | Don't be: many studies have shown CBT to be equally as
               | effective for depression (for most people) as medication.
               | If you are equally likely to cure your issues with a book
               | on CBT versus a pill, that is something you should
               | consider, even if you do end up deciding for the pill.
               | 
               | I encourage people to evaluate the costs and benefits of
               | ALL their options before seeking any specific treatment
               | for issues that involve neurochemistry. My entire thrust
               | is "medication is not a panacea and you should not bias
               | toward using it, over any other option, as a solution".
               | 
               | For some it may be the best choice. For many it is not.
               | Don't bias toward it (as you advocate). Evaluate, don't
               | just go get pills because some random person on the
               | internet said it worked for them that one time.
               | 
               | If you put the wrong thing in your body, you can fuck
               | yourself up for a very long time. I am speaking from
               | direct personal experience.
        
           | falcolas wrote:
           | > Don't bias toward taking amphetamines as the parent comment
           | instructs you to do.
           | 
           | What's the alternative? CBT is not sufficient when your brain
           | doesn't want to work. Executive function disorder is a huge
           | part of being ADHD.
           | 
           | > There are serious negative long-term effects from taking
           | amphetamines regularly
           | 
           | Citation needed for therapeutic dosages.
           | 
           | > They cause harm, even at low doses.
           | 
           | Citation definitely needed for therapeutic dosages.
           | 
           | > Ceasing regular [...] subsequent YEARS of oversleeping,
           | lethargy, and depression
           | 
           | Citation really really needed here for therapeutic dosages.
           | 
           | Anecdotal advice like this is exceptionally harmful to those
           | who need these meds to just reach "functional adult" levels
           | of normal.
        
             | sneak wrote:
             | What's harmful is telling people without qualification that
             | they should seek dangerous and addictive medication without
             | a careful cost/benefit analysis.
             | 
             | My comment isn't saying that you shouldn't, it's saying
             | that there are downsides that are not apparent that must be
             | weighed against the upsides--same as any medication. Even
             | ibuprofen can fuck up your stomach, each remedy must be
             | evaluated on its risks and merits.
             | 
             | I speak from extreme personal experience. Same team!
        
               | falcolas wrote:
               | > that they should seek dangerous and addictive
               | medication
               | 
               | We're not telling folks to go on a meth binge. We're
               | telling folks that this _doctor prescribed medication_
               | actually works, and can help improve their lives.
               | 
               | To use your own ibuprofin example - what your parent
               | statement is proposing equals: "Don't use ibuprofin for
               | your chronic inflammation, _even though your doctor
               | prescribed it for you._ "
               | 
               | EDIT: If COVID has taught me anything, it's that we as
               | human beings are poorly equipped to make appropriate
               | cost/benefit analysis when it comes to medical advice.
               | _Especially_ when it comes to anecdotal experiences. And
               | doubally especially when you 're already suffering from
               | untreated ADHD.
        
           | jacques_chester wrote:
           | Adderall is not the only medication. Other stimulants are
           | from different families and all of them come in a variety of
           | formulations / dose releasing mechanisms.
           | 
           | There is at least one non-stimulant drug that can be
           | prescribed (atomoxetine), but it doesn't work for a lot of
           | people (including me).
        
             | petercooper wrote:
             | I found atomoxetine only mildly useful and the side effects
             | (slight increase in blood pressure) to bother me enough to
             | stop using it.
             | 
             | However, I want to mention modafinil (particularly as no-
             | one else has mentioned it in this discussion). It has
             | worked for me and there is evidence to its effectiveness as
             | a non-stimulant medication for ADHD -
             | https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/11191692/ - although it's
             | technically an off-label use.
        
           | R0b0t1 wrote:
           | People medicated for ADHD with stimulants tend to live 7-9
           | years longer on average.
        
           | birdyrooster wrote:
           | Kidney damage? What effects?
        
           | hombre_fatal wrote:
           | We're talking about ADHD though, not someone looking to just
           | pull some all-nighters or cram on a Sunday night.
           | 
           | When I realized there was a low dose medication that could
           | basically cure me of ADHD (thus cure me of underperformance,
           | procrastinating my ambitions, low professional self-esteem),
           | the choice was obvious. Know what also does harm?
           | Underperformance, procrastinating my ambitions, low
           | professional self-esteem. Far worse than any side-effect from
           | amphetamine. And I'd take on much worse harms if they would
           | cure my ADHD like amphetamine does.
           | 
           | Edit: lol, when I started my reply to you, your comment was
           | two sentences long. Take it easy.
           | 
           | Btw, I'm in my mid-30s and I've been taking amphetamine since
           | I was 18. Perfect bill of health. Though, granted, there's
           | plenty of life left.
        
             | sneak wrote:
             | Stimulant addictions are one of the most common functional
             | addictions.
             | 
             | I don't think most people would consider someone servicing
             | an active physical dependency to have a "perfect bill of
             | health", even if you are totally free from disease.
        
               | [deleted]
        
               | sudosysgen wrote:
               | Mental disease is a disease too. The options are either
               | to have ADHD, which is a potentially very destructive
               | disease, or to have a low-grade dependency on stimulants
               | with few side-effects that can be severed in a week or
               | two.
               | 
               | Of course, many medications that aren't psychotropic fit
               | the bill. Corticosteroids, for a common example, lead to
               | physical dependency too. Most medications lead to some
               | kind of physical dependency after prolonged use, it's
               | just sometimes of very low grade.
               | 
               | The second option is much better from any pathological
               | point of view.
               | 
               | To note, perfect health doesn't exist. We're all broken
               | in some way :)
        
               | q3k wrote:
               | > someone servicing an active physical dependency to have
               | a "perfect bill of health"
               | 
               | Is taking immunosuppressants also a physical dependency
               | or a functional addiction?
        
               | vharuck wrote:
               | I take ADHD meds, and I will admit I have a dependency.
               | When I go without my meds, I'm in a really bad mood the
               | first day and get much worse the following days. That
               | said, I don't have an addiction _disorder_ , because it
               | doesn't impair my ability to work, maintain
               | relationships, pursue goals, or remain healthy. In fact,
               | it does the opposite. That's why my doctor prescribes
               | them.
               | 
               | (As an aside, the reason I've gone days without meds is
               | because my insurance company has a harmful policy of
               | requiring "prior authorization" from the same doctor who
               | prescribes the pills, and more than once I've found out
               | it needed renewed from a pharmacist who was only allowed
               | to try filling it the day I took my last pill. I'm tired
               | of this incredibly helpful medication, and the people who
               | depend on it, being thought less of.)
        
               | borski wrote:
               | You are making assumptions the parent did not imply. You
               | can be on ADHD meds and not be addicted to them, ffs. I
               | am on low-dose adderall xr _on days that I need it_ and I
               | have never had an issue. Everyone is different, but to
               | imply that the adderall has caused an "active physical
               | dependency" is no different from stating that too many
               | people drink caffeine (except that because I only take it
               | as needed it's not even a fair comparison).
               | 
               | You'd be right, but it does not do significant harm,
               | especially given how therapeutic the right drug can be in
               | the right doses.
               | 
               |  _Can_ it do significant harm? Sure. So can Ibuprofen.
        
         | birdyrooster wrote:
         | Seconded on L-Theanine, definitely helps if I get jitters. I
         | usually avoid caffeine bc of this, since the adderall at a
         | correct dose seems to work great but socially it's hard to
         | avoid caffeine.
        
           | rejectfinite wrote:
           | L-Theanine is sadly not sold in Sweden in tablets. I have
           | tried to find. As Tea really has a very calming effect on me.
        
           | madamelic wrote:
           | I love soda too much to kick caffeine entirely. Never got on
           | the coffee train thankfully.
           | 
           | I've tried to kick caffeine multiple times but always fall
           | back during stress. I just can't find another (cheap) drink I
           | enjoy sipping on.
           | 
           | My harm reduction is a Soda Stream, which at least lowers my
           | overall sugar intake. I don't understand sparkling water,
           | I've tried it and it is less enticing than plain water.
        
         | justasidenote2 wrote:
         | I'm working on ADHD diagnosis now and my doctor was kind enough
         | to let me begin taking Ritalin and then switch to Vyvanse.
         | Medication is literally, demonstrably changing my life for the
         | better.
         | 
         | I used to drink multiple cups of coffee a day and felt like it
         | was almost baseline requirement just to attempt to focus.
         | Actual ADHD medication makes coffee almost obsolete. The first
         | time I took Ritalin it was almost scary to realize how chaotic
         | my mind was minute-to-minute, every day without fail. Suddenly
         | the noise all went away.
         | 
         | It feels like I can actually create coherent sentences. I stop
         | getting overwhelmed by asynchronous communications (Slack,
         | email). The "volume" of every single distraction that used to
         | monopolize my attention gets turned way down. Yeah, I still get
         | distracted -- but now it's a conscious choice to either let
         | that distraction take precedent or to re-focus to the task at
         | hand.
         | 
         | The day to day benefits are great, but the big picture / life-
         | style benefits are the most appreciated. In general my anxiety
         | and stress management is honestly 10x better. I've gone from
         | being stressed over my career choice every week to finally
         | feeling like I can thrive. I stop getting irritated by the most
         | innocuous things someone might say or do. I stop waking up
         | anxious every weekend trying to process the million things I
         | need to get done just to exist and make forward progress in my
         | life. I could go on and on and on about how "real" ADHD is,
         | without even having a formal diagnosis yet.
         | 
         | I'm sure the discussions in this thread regarding the utility
         | and risks of these medications sounds intriguing if you don't
         | have ADHD and already know how to sit still and focus _at
         | will_. But anyone who doesn 't have our experience should
         | understand this shit is honestly helping people live their
         | lives for the better. My only regret is I didn't know sooner.
        
           | madamelic wrote:
           | >My only regret is I didn't know sooner.
           | 
           | Yep!
           | 
           | Always scored 90th percentile in standardized tests (how? no
           | clue.), curious, the lot... just couldn't care about homework
           | or listening in class.
           | 
           | I struggled through 5.5 years of college then years later
           | snapped out of the mindset of "just having to try harder". My
           | parents knew... they had me diagnosed as a kid, but were
           | scared off of stimulants by their church.
           | 
           | I try not to think about what my life could've been.
        
         | aidenn0 wrote:
         | > Get diagnosed and get a low-dose of meds. It helps _a lot_.
         | You will likely hate the feeling they give you for the first
         | week (you will genuinely feel high even on 10mg Adderall XR),
         | along with nightmares and night sweats but after a few weeks,
         | you'll suddenly be productive at a very normal level.
         | 
         | I wonder if I could have persisted long enough with Adderall to
         | find a theraputic effect if it had been during lockdown. 10mg
         | of Adderall made me unsafe to drive to work (I would suddenly
         | get the subjective sense that my car was completely still and
         | instead all the parked cars on the side of the road were
         | hurtling at me at 25 mph).
         | 
         | My doctor actually started me on a higher dose (15 or 20mg
         | maybe?) because I needed such a high dose of Ritalin to get a
         | theraputic effect (and at that high of a dose it greatly
         | impacted my sleep). I took it exactly once and I didn't feel
         | tired for 36 hours and was completely non-productive. For the
         | first time I finally understood what all that clinical language
         | describing the symptoms of a manic episode were all about.
         | 
         | Vyvanse did not feel nearly as bad subjectively, but my wife
         | insisted I change meds because I was (in her words) "an
         | asshole" while on it.
         | 
         | Finally settled in on 20-30mg of Focalin a day. The year of
         | titrating the doses of each medication was hell. And then when
         | we finally figured it out, my company switched insurers I had
         | to change the pill sizes (not total quantity) to get it covered
         | with the new insurance.
         | 
         | The one thing I'd like to add is that diet for me made a _huge_
         | difference. I might as well not be taking the meds if I have a
         | carb-heavy breakfast. Prior to taking the meds I had quit
         | eating breakfast altogether because I felt like such crap
         | around lunchtime if I ate breakfast. Obviously taking
         | stimulants on an empty stomach is not a great idea, and my
         | psychiatrist helped me out to go for a breakfast that doesn 't
         | provoke such a strong insulin response.
        
           | madamelic wrote:
           | > (swapping meds for a year)
           | 
           | Definitely feel you there. It's the worst part about
           | psychiatric drugs and why I've bailed on almost everyone I've
           | ever been on. It's that initial hump and having to struggle
           | through ~two weeks of hell.
           | 
           | My partner has run the gamut so he constantly assured me it
           | was normal and that I'd be fine.
           | 
           | >The one thing I'd like to add is that diet for me made a
           | huge difference. I might as well not be taking the meds if I
           | have a carb-heavy breakfast. Prior to taking the meds I had
           | quit eating breakfast altogether because I felt like such
           | crap around lunchtime if I ate breakfast. Obviously taking
           | stimulants on an empty stomach is not a great idea, and my
           | psychiatrist helped me out to go for a breakfast that doesn't
           | provoke such a strong insulin response.
           | 
           | Diet is my next interest but haven't gotten tools perfected
           | to track the variables that I think will be affected
           | (productivity, happiness, energy and sleep).
           | 
           | I am vaguely on the train of diet affecting productivity but
           | my daily lunch is a McDouble and large caffeine-free soda to
           | sip on so... non-conclusive currently. I also skip breakfast
           | because of the same reasons (too heavy + no good breakfast
           | foods, even 30-in-30 always slows me down)
           | 
           | I have found that many 'healthy' foods make me feel sick or
           | worsen productivity so I am tentatively sticking to my weird
           | diet for now. I have suspicions I may have food allergies and
           | that could be causing it.
        
             | aidenn0 wrote:
             | My theory is I get a bit hypoglycemic with the typical
             | American breakfast of pastry/bagel/cereal, but I kind-of
             | don't care why.
             | 
             | Bacon is my go-to breakfast food; can cook up a bunch at a
             | time and heat up what I need in the morning. I make some
             | eggs to go with it if I have the time. The great thing
             | about bacon for me is that it's so salty that I cannot
             | overeat on it.
        
       | RankingMember wrote:
       | > Last one -- I have no idea if this is a placebo effect. But
       | caffeine seems to really help.
       | 
       | Yep. As has been mentioned, in this context you're basically
       | using it like Adderall. Unfortunately, the body will build up a
       | tolerance quickly, so I find myself needing to use them
       | sparingly, Adderall especially, otherwise end up feeling the
       | withdrawal symptoms (excessive irritability, more trouble
       | focusing than before medicating).
        
         | bpye wrote:
         | Caffeine dependence isn't much fun either - whilst I don't know
         | of any long term health impacts, the severe headache when you
         | miss a caffeinated drink in the morning sucks.
        
         | moftz wrote:
         | I'll only drink coffee if I know I have a busy morning and want
         | to power through it. I miss taking Adderall daily but the
         | effect from coffee is almost the same. I don't drink it that
         | often mostly because I don't want a tolerance. Drinking coffee
         | on my less busy mornings just leads me to getting dragged into
         | some low priority task and spending all morning on it when I
         | could be working other things. Sometimes I'll just grab a 300mg
         | energy drink at the store or take a couple Excedrin on an empty
         | stomach if that's all I got.
        
           | madamelic wrote:
           | >Sometimes I'll just grab a 300mg energy drink at the store
           | or take a couple Excedrin on an empty stomach if that's all I
           | got.
           | 
           | Not suggesting medication or that you take something you
           | shouldn't; absolutely do your own research!
           | 
           | Look into HVMN Sprint. Pretty long shelf-life, well-
           | controlled dosage and focused on focus rather just ENERGY TO
           | THE MAX.
           | 
           | I loved Monster back in the day but its taste makes me sick
           | just thinking about it.
        
           | RankingMember wrote:
           | Same, if possible I try to plan my stimulant intake based on
           | anticipated workload, i.e. I don't want to be using my focus
           | energy if there's nothing requiring it going on. I have
           | noticed that simply changing up the delivery substance can
           | "fake out" the tolerance sometimes, e.g. drinking a cup of
           | coffee might have no effect due to tolerance but drinking a
           | cup of green tea gets my brain going despite the core drug
           | being caffeine for both.
        
       | zwkrt wrote:
       | I have undiagnosed ADD. I know partially because I observe my own
       | behavior, but also because once at a party I took adderall and
       | while everyone else frantically danced themselves into a heavy
       | sweat, I was compelled to go into the kitchen and do all the
       | dishes and reorganize my closet.
       | 
       | I don't like how stimulants make me feel, even though I know they
       | might make it easier to fit into society. It is probably hard to
       | describe how they make me feel to someone who does not have the
       | underlying condition, like trying to describe how it feels to get
       | a prosthetic arm to someone who has never lost their arm to begin
       | with.
       | 
       | Compared with other people, my internal experience/world seems
       | frantic. If I sit for more than 30 seconds alone without my phone
       | I will have wild daydreams---my mind works kind of like the old
       | website StumbleUpon. Or like being in a crowded restaurant and
       | trying to follow everyone's conversations. My favorite quote
       | regarding ADHD: "my brain never takes the same route twice".
       | 
       | But I don't think that stimulants make me have a "normal"
       | experience like "normal" people do. Yes, on one hand the
       | increased dopamine means that I am actually able to maintain a
       | mental checklist for more than 5 minutes. I'm sure I would be the
       | best employee ever, and the yessiest of yes-men. There is an
       | element of taking stimulants that feels just like putting on
       | noise-cancelling headphones and produces the same focusing
       | effect.
       | 
       | But there is also a dark side. I can't relax. I feel absolutely
       | driven to accomplish things. The outside world impinges so much
       | more heavily on my mind. My access to my intuition and creativity
       | are diminished. My jaw is clenched. Instead of forgetting to eat
       | like normal I am just not hungry, my stomach is churning. It
       | makes me feel like a golem. There is a chance that minus the
       | physical side effects normal people do feel this way mentally,
       | but it is so much more sterile. It's like trading the lush forest
       | of imagination for a cubicle farm of execution.
       | 
       | My personal theory is that ADHD is just at the far end of the
       | normal distribution of personality and that it is a trait that is
       | very useful for raising children. In a real way there is a
       | childish wonder that I have never lost, even as I see those
       | around me "grow up" (i.e., become rigid). I have heard other
       | theories regarding it being adaptive for hunting. Either way, I
       | enjoy my existence as a space cadet. My whole life is shining
       | with such a rich and imaginative inner experience and I don't
       | think I owe it to anyone to dim that brightness just so I can fit
       | into their terribly boring, rigid, and repetitive world more
       | easily.
        
       | jasonlotito wrote:
       | I found out I had ADHD and OCD at 33. I even gave a talk on
       | it[1]. I would highly recommend you get officially diagnosed. Not
       | to suggest your partner is wrong, but rather it will open up
       | possibilities you might not otherwise have.
       | 
       | For myself, I say a therapist regarding my OCD, and it really
       | helped me come to grips and understand my OCD. It really helped
       | answer questions I didn't know I had, and helped me better get a
       | handle on both ADHD and OCD.
       | 
       | Thank you for sharing. =)
       | 
       | 1. https://www.slideshare.net/jasonlotito/getting-things-
       | done-4...
        
       | 29athrowaway wrote:
       | GABA supplements can help alleviate the symptoms of ADHD, if the
       | source of it is anxiety.
        
         | rejectfinite wrote:
         | Oh I'm sure benzos help for anxiety lmao good one dude. Of
         | course they do.
        
       | Spivak wrote:
       | Getting tested & treated for my ADHD was genuinely life-changing
       | for me. It's one of those insidious disorders that doesn't let
       | you know how bad you actually have it until you experience what
       | it's like without it for the first time. The inattentive type is
       | _nothing_ like the stereotypes.
       | 
       | One of my favorite signs you might have ADHD. Caffeine doesn't do
       | anything for you and/or makes you sleepy. You've never know what
       | other people talk about when they describe being "wired" after
       | drinking an energy drink. Bonus points if despite "doing nothing"
       | you still intake lots of caffeine. Congrats! You might be self-
       | medicating without knowing it.
       | 
       | Everyone will recommend the book The Disorganized Mind for lots
       | of good non-medication strategies and I'm no different. It's
       | fantastic.
        
         | disabled wrote:
         | > One of my favorite signs you might have ADHD. Caffeine
         | doesn't do anything for you and/or makes you sleepy.
         | 
         | Caffeine is an adenosine A2A antagonist, which has therapeutic
         | potential in ADHD, except the half-like makes it an improbable
         | candidate.
         | 
         | Ironically, I just started taking an adenosine a2a antagonist,
         | known as Nourianz (istradefylline) (link:
         | https://www.nourianz.com/), as a last-resort drug for my severe
         | restless legs syndrome, which has been going phenomenally well.
         | I also have ADHD combined type (inattention and hyperactivity),
         | and fairly severely. I take Vyvanse for my ADHD.
         | 
         | Anyways, I have been taking the the istradefylline for a week
         | now, and it has made a tremendous difference in many of my ADHD
         | symptoms. Additionally, it greatly increased my sense of
         | wellbeing within 1-2 hours of initially taking it, and it has
         | been sustained for the entire week.
         | 
         | Thanks to istradefylline I can now focus seamlessly and without
         | effort. I can just "lock in" to whatever I want to do. Before,
         | it would require some static force ("friction") to be able to
         | "lock in" my concentration to do the task. I can also now just
         | focus, without hyperfocusing. It now comes naturally to me. I
         | also no longer find myself pacing around the house aimlessly. I
         | also do not randomly get up from my seat or fidget hardcore. I
         | can also lock back into a flow state without effort if I am
         | disrupted.
         | 
         | I hope you find this interesting! The adenosine a2a antagonist
         | made a huge difference in both my restless legs syndrome and
         | ADHD symptoms. I cannot imagine NOT being on this medication
         | for my ADHD.
        
         | borski wrote:
         | 100% this. I was diagnosed last year (at 33), and it changed my
         | life for the better; specifically, it allowed me to stop being
         | _angry_ at myself every time I did something that was, in fact,
         | a symptom of ADD. Now I had a reason and could work to modify
         | behaviors, as opposed to just feeling guilty and undisciplined.
         | 
         | Mark Suster's posts were what set me on this track of self-
         | realization (along with my best friend and fiancee telling me
         | to consider it), so I'll leave them here in case they help
         | anyone else too:
         | 
         | [1] https://bothsidesofthetable.com/how-to-know-if-you-have-
         | add-...
         | 
         | [2] https://bothsidesofthetable.com/why-add-might-actually-
         | benef...
         | 
         | [3] https://bothsidesofthetable.com/developing-an-action-plan-
         | fo...
        
         | tstrimple wrote:
         | I drink lots and lots of caffeine during the week. I mostly
         | like hot drinks when I have to sit down and work throughout the
         | day. I definitely cannot relate to that caffeine buzz. I
         | consume almost no caffeine on the weekends and I cannot really
         | tell a difference from an alertness standpoint. There are
         | nights I cannot sleep at all and toss and turn until the wee
         | hours of the morning, and there are nights I fall asleep within
         | 5 minutes and sleep throughout the night. Neither seems to have
         | anything to do with the amount of caffeine I'm consuming.
        
           | moftz wrote:
           | I limit myself to one mug in the morning and another around
           | lunch if I need the help on the days I do drink coffee. I try
           | not to build up a caffeine tolerance since it's the next best
           | thing to ADHD drugs for me. If you just like coffee, switch
           | to decaf and only drink caffeinated for when you need it.
        
         | athorax wrote:
         | I very much identify with this. Both from an ADHD and anxiety
         | perspective. I really had no idea how bad it had gotten until I
         | was able to experience what not having constant anxiety felt
         | like. Medication was a huge step forward in helping me "reset"
         | and gave me a way to target actual life events that triggered
         | my anxiety
        
       | ThrustVectoring wrote:
       | Not surprised at all that caffeine helps. ADHD is, bar none,
       | _the_ mental health diagnosis most amenable to medication.
       | Specifically, stimulant therapy. There 's no principled
       | distinction between self-medicating and prescriptions here, other
       | than various legal risks, costs, and side effect profiles.
       | Caffeine is particularly poorly suited to this due to adaptation
       | and anxiety, but it's certainly _something_ , especially if you
       | aren't a regular user. Amphetamine is the first-line treatment
       | choice for a reason, and it makes a night-and-day difference tbh.
        
         | logicslave wrote:
         | Yes, but in the long run amphetamines will do significant
         | damage to your health.
        
           | jdgoesmarching wrote:
           | [Citation needed]
        
             | InitialLastName wrote:
             | Why would they cite when they can just as easily insinuate?
        
           | borski wrote:
           | Only if abused at high doses. I was recently diagnosed with
           | ADD and the adderall XR is incredibly helpful, and at my 10mg
           | dose on an "as needed" basis (since I don't need productivity
           | _every_ day) I'm not concerned at all.
        
             | devmunchies wrote:
             | I do 3-5mg IR so it has minimum impact on health but take
             | on an empty stomach so its effective. My goal is to feel it
             | just enough to get a little help.
        
             | logicslave wrote:
             | How long have you been taking it? The cracks will show
             | years down the road, not initially.
        
               | renewiltord wrote:
               | This is not evidence-based.
        
               | sudosysgen wrote:
               | Long term studies on ADHD patients do not support this
               | hypothesis.
        
               | specialjack wrote:
               | Curious if you have any sources for this? I have heard
               | this before and struggled to find data that backs it up.
        
               | tudelo wrote:
               | I have heard it can be bad for oral health due to
               | dehydration. Not sure how much of that ends up being a
               | feeling versus physically needing water, and how
               | dehydration affects oral health, or exactly how I would
               | connect all of the dots there (or if I even should
               | attempt it), but it seems reasonable.
        
               | devmunchies wrote:
               | > Not sure how much of that ends up being a feeling
               | versus physically needing water
               | 
               | it does dry out your oral/nasal cavity. It can cause your
               | body to produce mucus to compensate. I commonly feel like
               | swallowing is slow as if there is a thin layer of mucus
               | lining my throat. Even had yellow mucus drip out of my
               | nose as if it were a nose bleed (happened 3-4 occasions),
               | which comes from having a sinus infection.
               | 
               | This is one of the reasons I switch to micro-dosing on an
               | empty stomach and supplementing with coffee to limit
               | exposure to amphetamines.
        
           | elliekelly wrote:
           | Leaving ADHD untreated can do significant damage to your
           | health, too.
        
           | ThrustVectoring wrote:
           | I am not professionally employable without ADHD medication.
           | I'm willing to that risk for roughly $3m in career earnings.
        
         | schneidmaster wrote:
         | Coffee consumption was actually one of the questions that I was
         | asked when my therapist first suspected that I had ADHD. I used
         | to drink 5+ cups per day (especially workdays) while feeling
         | fairly little effect from it. I'm now on medication which works
         | an order of magnitude better for managing my symptoms, and I
         | rarely drink more than 1 cup of coffee per day.
         | 
         | It's also worth noting that ADHD often comes with other mental
         | health comorbidities; in my case, it exacerbated my depression.
         | I would often fall into a spiral of inability to focus ->
         | feeling bad about myself for not completing work that I was
         | generally more than capable of doing -> even less ability to
         | focus. I still have depression, but starting on ADHD medication
         | all-but-removed my most frequent trigger.
        
           | devmunchies wrote:
           | I would down an energy drink when needing to do long drives
           | and would have a calm, almost euphoric, feeling. Definitely
           | not stimulating.
           | 
           | Similar to the feeling (although much weaker) hydrocodone
           | gave me after I had oral surgery.
        
           | madamelic wrote:
           | > I would often fall into a spiral of inability to focus ->
           | feeling bad about myself for not completing work that I was
           | generally more than capable of doing -> even less ability to
           | focus. I still have depression, but starting on ADHD
           | medication all-but-removed my most frequent trigger.
           | 
           | I had the same issue!
           | 
           | I told my prescribing doctor this same thing and she trusted
           | me enough to try out Adderall before SSRIs again. Turns out
           | my hypothesis of my depression + anxiety largely being tied
           | to my sense of productivity was right.
           | 
           | After going in for an EKG check-up on orders of the
           | prescribing doctor, I found a fairly benign heart issue that
           | the cardiologist believes may be the cause of my "panic
           | attacks" (eg: my attacks may be heart racing -> panic, not
           | panic -> heart racing!)
           | 
           | All of that from just treating "I feel bad because I get
           | nothing done".
        
             | TurkishPoptart wrote:
             | is it normal to get an EKG in relation to ADHD medication?
             | I'm in your boat too. I've tried antidepressants with no
             | results so I'm going to see a doctor about ADHD this time.
        
           | ardy42 wrote:
           | > Coffee consumption was actually one of the questions that I
           | was asked when my therapist first suspected that I had ADHD.
           | I used to drink 5+ cups per day (especially workdays) while
           | feeling fairly little effect from it.
           | 
           | Did you get a big boost when you first started with it that
           | reduced as you developed tolerance with habitual use?
           | 
           | I've always been pretty careful with caffeine consumption in
           | order to avoid tolerance, because I didn't want to get into a
           | state where all it did was boost me back to my "normal" (i.e.
           | feeling crappy until I got my coffee, and having to use
           | increasing amounts to get past my baseline).
        
             | schneidmaster wrote:
             | Not really. Even when I first started drinking coffee
             | (around high school) I never got much of a boost from it. I
             | think your caution makes sense for folks with neurotypical
             | brains, but even now (drinking 0-1 cups per day) I drink it
             | for the flavor and/or social aspects, not because it does
             | much for my energy or productivity.
        
       | 99_00 wrote:
       | I'm in my 40s and have suffered with undiagnosed ADHD my entire
       | life.
       | 
       | Two days after I suspected I had it I saw my doctor. One month
       | later I was on medication. A few more months and I am in weekly
       | counselling. For me personally, the positive changes from
       | medication and counseling have been dramatic and immediate.
       | 
       | After only 4 months, my coworkers impression of me is starting to
       | shift for the better.
       | 
       | ADHD is a serious mental illness. I'm so thankful that the help
       | I'm getting is working.
       | 
       | "Taking Charge of Adult ADHD" by Barkley, helped me understand
       | ADHD and how I should deal with it.
        
       | TurkishPoptart wrote:
       | >My 5 AM morning workout is probably the most important part of
       | the routine since it helps with focus and letting out some
       | energy.
       | 
       | Damn, if you have the mental fortitude to get out of bed at that
       | time, you're probably fine. Every time I wake up before my alarm,
       | especially now when it's super cold, I instantly think of this
       | Calvin and Hobbes single-panel classic:
       | https://www.pinterest.com/pin/316729786269578409/
        
       | thejellypen wrote:
       | Feels like its easy to have a false positive diagnoses for
       | amphetamines, particularly in high stress & productivity roles
       | such as tech.
        
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