[HN Gopher] Games can fix remote team building
___________________________________________________________________
Games can fix remote team building
Author : masonhipp
Score : 52 points
Date : 2021-02-01 15:16 UTC (7 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (slideswith.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (slideswith.com)
| jefftk wrote:
| A subset of my team (~8/20) plays One Night Ultimate Werewolf
| (https://netgames.io/games/onu-werewolf/) each Thursday
| afternoon. We've found that it's a very good fit for a video
| call, and gives a good balance of cooperation and competition.
|
| It's not mandatory, but it's fun for the people who attend and I
| think it does bring us a bit closer together.
| 6510 wrote:
| I've always joked that company software lags behind game
| development by 10-30 years. One time, in a rather silly mood, I
| ponder this weird idea to add a game to the employee toolkit. I
| imagined it to grow just like all in-house developed software and
| ideally make a caricature of the business process. Then I
| remember how many people I met and hung out with in online games
| like Diablo 2. One would stand in town and chat about the game,
| life the universe and everything. The silly idea didn't seem all
| that silly anymore.
| [deleted]
| bsharitt wrote:
| >remote work makes it dramatically harder to socialize with your
| teammates
|
| That's a key feature of remote work that I enjoy.
| 6510 wrote:
| No group hugs for you!
| jypepin wrote:
| I've built such strong relationships through games, with people
| I've never met, that I can't agree more with that.
|
| The limit is that games will have the same effects as other
| "offsite" activities. Some people will be into it and it'll work
| for them, but others will just not be interested (whatever their
| reasons).
|
| For example the first picture of the article shows basketball.
| That could be seen as a great team building exercise (for non-
| remote teams) but some people just don't like basketball or
| sports.
|
| Unfortunately there are no silver bullets.
| violetgarden wrote:
| I agree with you!
|
| I also find that team building can be stressful depending on
| how your work is fluctuating. If it's under a heavy load, then
| it feels frustratingly like a waste of time when you could be
| getting things done. While I think team building is important,
| I think it's so hard to get right. Frankly, the best teams I've
| worked in are ones where everyone had a similar work ethic.
| Swizec wrote:
| > If it's under a heavy load, then it feels frustratingly
| like a waste of time when you could be getting things done.
|
| On the other hand, companies/teams shouldn't force you into
| such high workloads that being human with your coworkers
| feels like a waste of time. You'd be surprised how many
| wasteful discussions, long meetings, bike shedding debates,
| and managerial overhead melts away when people talk the same
| language and understand each other's quirks.
|
| Was that snark or is the person just tired? Are they rude or
| busy? Are they slacking or dealing with a newborn? So much
| easier to understand nuance when you know the people you work
| with.
| dfxm12 wrote:
| _Unfortunately there are no silver bullets._
|
| Maybe this is a good use for the "shotgun approach", then.
| Basketball for people who want it, games for people who want
| it, etc. If you want people join team building events, I don't
| think the right approach is to mandate one thing, but to give
| people choices & let people own their team building experience.
|
| I also think the flip side of this is that management also has
| to understand that it's fine if not every single team member
| contributes to every team building activity - my team had to
| give our manager that feedback recently.
| jypepin wrote:
| definitely, but then you also miss the opportunity to build
| relationships between someone who loves basketball and
| someone who does not. So everything is a trade off :)
| ok123456 wrote:
| How about organizing a collective bargaining agreement for team
| building instead?
| slmjkdbtl wrote:
| not surprised games bring bond happiness and laughter which can
| cure cancer, but the problem is a lot of games have fragile net
| code, you sometimes have to rely on the "big" online multiplayer
| games cuz a lot of indie / small games prob won't work or can be
| frustrating to work with. I was looking for a multiplayer game to
| play with my little brother who's in China, I have a 1000+ steam
| library and Portal 2 is the only one I found that's playable
| through the wire.
| hiccuphippo wrote:
| That's more China's great firewall's fault than the indie
| game's fault. Also try more strategy/turnbased games than fps
| if the lag is an issue.
| slmjkdbtl wrote:
| It's not, China's great firewall don't block all foreigh
| servers they only block a few, it's more of a distance and
| internet infra problem. Not saying it's indie game's fault
| but it's true very few indie games have online multiplayer
| and very few really made it awesome, most of the time
| networking is not worth it for smaller games, a lot of
| awesome local multiplayer games won't even consider online.
| And yeah strategy/turnbased games definitely will be better.
| dboshardy wrote:
| I'm firmly of the belief that if there is genuine social
| interaction to be had, it will be had for the most part.
|
| Forcing social interaction (corporate mandated fun) is just
| another tool to tie employees to an employer to make it more
| difficult/less desirable for them to leave for better
| opportunities.
| nickthemagicman wrote:
| I agree. If companies just treat employees well and provide a
| good working environment the employees will be happy and work
| hard and feel good about their co-workers.
|
| I think there's an emphasis on forcing the employees to do
| things rather than creating the evironment where employees do
| it naturally.
| mc32 wrote:
| To me the issue is blurring the lines between work and not
| work.
|
| Companies are not your buddies. They are not your friends. We
| make a deal. You pay me. I return value. That's it. It doesn't
| have to be more complicated than that.
|
| You're not family. You won't be there when things go south. You
| will not hesitate to fire, if it's in your interest.
|
| Don't sugarcoat the relationship.
| [deleted]
| frakt0x90 wrote:
| I'm sure a lot of companies are like this but not all. The
| one I work for is huge (50k+ emps) and is very much like a
| family. One of our engineers got a really rare, debilitating
| disease and they kept him on even though he couldn't work for
| 2 years and they helped raise thousands of dollars for his
| medical bills. My manager even helped me find external jobs
| when things weren't improving here. Probably rare but it
| happens. My coworkers here are easily my best friends.
| dudul wrote:
| Totally agree with that. You know what I like to do with my
| friends? Bitch about my work. Vent about how idiotic our
| sales people are, mock how delusional our roadmap for the
| year is. That's for my friends, not my coworkers, not my
| manager who's trying to be my buddy.
|
| Yes, I will occasionally have true friends at work with whom
| I can talk about that on a private channel, but that's the
| exception.
| goldcd wrote:
| You need better co-workers. Your friends and family will
| listen and politely nod along to your complaints, but only
| a co-worker will truly appreciate your wrath, deeply
| sympathize, and then one-up you with some scandalous piece
| of gossip they heard about the target of your rage.
| baud147258 wrote:
| > Vent about how idiotic our sales people are, mock how
| delusional our roadmap for the year is
|
| that's like half of my conversations with colleagues.
| Personally I don't see that many downsides with getting
| along with my colleagues, though it doesn't usually happen
| via mandated team building
| mc32 wrote:
| The thing is you don't want HR catching wind of things.
| It's not that people rat on each other. But people are
| known to blurt things out when prompted (someone divulges
| a "secret" and often the other person divulges a "secret"
| in return. It's just conversation.)
| baud147258 wrote:
| I don't think anything that we said was a fireable
| offense (or HR would need to fire the whole group). We
| might get an official reprimand for some of the dissing,
| though.
| mc32 wrote:
| There was a guy hanging out with his work buddies. Other
| people within hearing distance. A recent graduate and
| uncultured, he referred to someone as a chick. So long!
|
| Was it professional to say chick? No. Is it a fireable
| offense? I've heard much worse, but on the other side so
| it doesn't even register with people.
| goldcd wrote:
| I guess it depends what's being said.
|
| To take the "Delusional Roadmap" example above, the only
| thing that is every going to resolve this, is the quiet
| gossipy whispers.
|
| e.g. Possible answers 1) No it's not - you're fired. 2)
| Is it? I was told it wasn't. Could you jot down some
| notes I could raise? 3) Yes, sorry - we all know what,
| but we have to go along with it to get budget, so we're
| not all fired 4) I know it looks a stretch, but
| somebody's been working on x, and y's about to be signed.
|
| Any conversation or response, gives you some context - to
| better understand/accept that slide that just left you
| spluttering, speechless and outraged.
| herodoturtle wrote:
| I think the exception to this rule is Partnerships and even
| LLPs. But otherwise I generally agree with this sentiment.
| Let's not sugarcoat the exchange of monetary remuneration for
| value added.
| ebiester wrote:
| Companies aren't, but this is a relatively small community,
| especially in some niche languages. That conversation with a
| coworker might lead to a job years down the line. As a
| manager, I may not always be a manager. The next job, I may
| be a manager or engineer and knowing someone on another team
| that might be the right person for the job - and that
| conversation might start at a happy hour.
| senko wrote:
| Family is a straw man, nobody's saying you have to marry the
| company.
|
| However, note that you're spending 8 hours most of your days
| with these people. It is undoubtedly easier if the
| relationship is cordial, friendly, and if you can banter with
| them during the off moments.
|
| There is a human element to every interaction and people are
| not robots.
|
| "You pay me, I return value, that's it" reduces you to a
| nameless, faceless, replacable, fungible resource.
|
| I would not like to work in a place where that's it.
| mc32 wrote:
| I'd restrain from banter with colleagues. You never know
| who's listening or who will catch wind.
|
| Don't mix biz and pleasure.
|
| All workplaces are this place; some disguise it better.
| CubsFan1060 wrote:
| This is an extremely cynical take.
|
| There's a middle ground between "we're family, I'll
| sacrifice everything for you" and "I'll stab you in the
| back as soon as I possibly can".
|
| I think it's perfectly reasonable for the vast majority
| of people to enjoy work more if they have a friendly
| relationship with their coworkers. Does it benefit the
| company to have happy employees? Sure. Does it benefit
| the employees to be happy? Sure!
| mc32 wrote:
| It's okay to form superficial relationships at work. Some
| may become real friendships, but that should be outside
| company influence.
|
| I don't want the company serving as intermediary. It
| becomes friendly "-ism".
| throwaway894345 wrote:
| At the same time, I want to do good work while I'm on the
| clock, and that requires collaborating with people. In my
| experience, that collaboration goes better when I have some
| "casual rapport" (not sure if there is a better term) with my
| colleagues--people are more willing to work with me, exchange
| favors, etc. In a physical environment, the requisite social
| interactions happen more naturally, but in my new remote role
| it seems like it requires a certain amount of intentionality.
| And provided that social time is "on the clock" or otherwise
| compensated, I don't see how I'm being exploited.
|
| In other words, I agree with everything you're saying, but I
| don't see how it rebuts team building.
| dj_mc_merlin wrote:
| > I'm firmly of the belief that if there is genuine social
| interaction to be had, it will be had for the most part.
|
| I'd agree with you any day except the current ones. Given
| recent events, do you not Counter Strike Fridays might bring
| some much needed social interaction? Yes, making them mandatory
| would be stupid, but what company makes socializing events
| mandatory?
| [deleted]
| goldcd wrote:
| I agree.
|
| I think the ideal would be that it just happens organically -
| your employees get along, groups want to spend time together
| outside of their employment, you reap the benefit when they're
| working in it. It's invaluable to know what makes people tick
| and how best to work with them.
|
| If the groups don't form naturally, maybe try to 'seed' some.
| Stick some cash behind a local bar, ask if anybody wants to go
| karting after work, pop along for an informal 5-a-side on
| Sunday morning etc. Never force it, though.
|
| I was made aware of a 'fun event' that didn't get enough uptake
| to hit it's KPI. Therefore people were encouraged to press-gang
| their people - and you end up with a bunch of miserable people
| all resenting the intrusion into their personal time and
| everybody involved.
| mbg721 wrote:
| There's something to be said for a little social lubrication
| humanizing the people you work with and making actual work
| interactions better.
| legitster wrote:
| Hard disagree.
|
| Leaving people to their own devices, you will have a couple of
| go-getters who hobnob with managers and everyone else cut out
| of the cliques.
|
| Liking your coworkers is a mutually beneficial relationship for
| everyone and setting aside structured time to do it makes it
| more egalitarian.
| pletnes wrote:
| What if the work event allows for the first social interaction?
| If there's no opportunity to get to know people from work, you
| may not discover common interests, etc. I've certainly been
| surprised a few times about colleagues I realized I didn't know
| much about.
| apabepa wrote:
| A more natural way would be to arrange for people to work
| together in smaller groups on tasks as part of the normal
| work. If you provide this then I agree with the parent poster
| if there is a social interaction to be had it will come. If
| not that's OK as long as we can work together in reasonable
| harmony. I value professionalism, if I can make a friend
| through work that is great but it should not be the norm that
| we all have to be friends to get along.
| Fifer82 wrote:
| I absolutely refuse to take part in these kind of primitive
| experiences. If life has gotten to this dire point, spare the
| team members time and do a course on management as it is likely
| you need it.
| fassssst wrote:
| Counter-point: I hear from a lot of women that I work with that
| too much video game talk makes them feel excluded. And many of
| the die hard gamers I work with don't want to play casual games.
| Video games aren't appealing to everyone, so carefully choosing
| the right games for your team would be very important.
|
| I've been making time for more one-on-ones and mentoring, which
| has been going well for my team.
| dairylee wrote:
| It doesn't have to be something complex like playing a game of
| League of Legends. Just playing something more accessible and
| simple like Codenames or the Jackbox games works too.
| legitster wrote:
| We work in a small, seven person company. And with a small
| company, we assumed working remote would be fine for us.
|
| We found that everyone has become quite a bit more miserable. The
| outgoing people are spinning their wheels furiously, and the
| introverted employees got in these really bad mental funks.
|
| I think we often forget that for a LOT of people out there, work
| is the primary source of friendships and human relationships.
|
| We started setting aside time specifically to do something fun
| once a month and even as corny as it is, it really helps.
| rsweeney21 wrote:
| We've made a bunch of new hires since transitioning to remote. We
| tried many things to help new employees feel a part of the team.
|
| A few months ago we started playing Among Us twice a week for 30
| minutes in an optional happy hour. It has been a ton of fun, and
| has made a huge difference. You can't force people to socialize,
| but if you give them something fun to do, it happens organically.
| dudul wrote:
| Maybe a naive question but has it been proved that teams of
| friends are more productive than teams of coworkers who simply
| respect each other and enjoy working together?
| UI_at_80x24 wrote:
| Whenever I hear about 'Gamify-ing work' or anything similar I
| think of the movie Brazil.
|
| I like to imagine that those exercise bikes/puzzles are an
| example of this morphed into something horrible.
| mawise wrote:
| I try to do this with my team at least once a month for a couple
| hours. Some games we've enjoyed:
|
| Among Us: https://innersloth.itch.io/among-us
|
| Telephone Pictionary: https://rocketcrab.com/game/drawphone
|
| Codenames: https://codenames.game/
| littlecranky67 wrote:
| +1 on codenames. I played the board game pre-covid and the
| current online version is browser based, robust, free to play
| with no ads whatsover (except for the phyical game itself) and
| no required signup.
| sneak wrote:
| Is it mandatory? If you assume a staff member has x hours
| available each week for work, is this coming out of x (at the
| expense of company business) or is it coming out of 168-x (and
| thus reducing the staff member's time for sleep, shower,
| cooking, family, et c)?
| novok wrote:
| In my experience these things are usually scheduled during
| working hours as a meeting, and optional.
| mawise wrote:
| I do them as part of work hours, and while not mandatory I do
| strongly encourage everyone to participate. I think the
| increased team cohesion is well worth 2 hours a month of
| "lost" productivity.
| robotmay wrote:
| Among Us is a great laugh, we did that as a team last week.
| Getting your colleague thrown out an airlock for a murder you
| committed yourself never gets old.
| iso1631 wrote:
| Great. During work hours.
| goldcd wrote:
| I always felt that most "enforced-fun-games" were excellent at
| team building. Being "asked to cross an imaginary river" etc is a
| great way to unite the humble employees in their universal
| loathing of their woefully mis-guided management. Always had a
| niggling feeling that the 'bad games' couldn't be that bad by
| accident. ("Look, everybody hates everybody - could we push some
| more hate towards us, so they at least talk to each other?")
|
| Or there are the "split into small groups to do a task" tasks,
| which are usually won by teams where one person 'just does it',
| whilst the rest are bickering around how to break down the task
| and assign r&r. Again, not sure if this is the point, but you
| very rapidly notice which of your colleagues are both loud and
| useless.
|
| Oh and final whine, 'the prizes' There doesn't need to be one -
| but if there is, could it please be something that's actually
| wanted? Branded merch, $100 Apple voucher, ask the CEO a question
| etc...
|
| ..actually, I wouldn't mind asking if his bonus is an f'in polo
| shirt.
| aaron-santos wrote:
| > the 'bad games' couldn't be that bad on purpose.
|
| Is it the same reason that hazing create shared trauma which we
| cope with by forming bonds?
| goldcd wrote:
| Exactly - wish I'd plucked that word.
|
| Team-building is the only legal form of hazing allowed by
| companies. Now that's not to say all Team-building is hazing
| - but...
| devlopr wrote:
| Ask the CEO a question as a prize? Can I forefit my winnings?
|
| Maybe it's me but I can't think of any question that would
| produce an answer of information I didn't know and actually
| want to know. From any CEO.
|
| What would you ask Musk? Or your own CEO if you had the chance?
| acntr_employee wrote:
| I would ask, how he can sleep at night knowing that women
| earn significantly less than their male counterparts. Or how
| he would explain around 100% difference in salaries for the
| exact same job depending on the person.
| devlopr wrote:
| Asking that question after winning an employee game
| wouldn't give you much insight. He or she would say they
| are working towards some goal and ask you to join the
| committee on women's pay.
|
| If you asked HR they will probably give you more of an
| honest answer. We are trying to pay people as little as
| possible.
| crazygringo wrote:
| There's a subset of employees who really like games. Many places
| I've worked, those employees stay long after hours pulling out
| board games, video games, etc.
|
| But there's another (probably larger?) subset of employees who
| like casual conversation, coffee, drinking, little 5 minute chats
| in the kitchen, and who have little to no interest in games. I
| don't think the proposal is going to do much for this subset.
| dfxm12 wrote:
| The game isn't the point, and to that end, picking the right
| game is critical. I mean, if you don't like games, but are
| interested in chit chat, you can make small talk over a game of
| war or go fish. That might not be possible over a game of
| league of legends.
| tomaszs wrote:
| I can confirm it is true. Often when meeting new teams i get
| Summon The JSON decks with me. It is great to just hang out a
| little bit, play and talk. It takes away the steam from official
| team formulation.
|
| I am strong believer that such creating human relationships
| between teammates solves a lot of trouble down the road.
| legitster wrote:
| I want to strongly recommend the game Wavelength (there is an app
| and several online knock offs: https://longwave.web.app/)
|
| It's very casual and doubles as a wonderful conversation starter.
___________________________________________________________________
(page generated 2021-02-01 23:02 UTC)