[HN Gopher] The Hermeneutical Imperative
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       The Hermeneutical Imperative
        
       Author : panic
       Score  : 29 points
       Date   : 2021-01-31 05:55 UTC (1 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (theconvivialsociety.substack.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (theconvivialsociety.substack.com)
        
       | jrumbut wrote:
       | I feel like I'm missing why this article was written.
       | 
       | It requires more conscious interpretation to speak via the
       | Internet compared to in person. The Internet is a weird museum
       | filled with stuff to interpret.
       | 
       | Ok, seems true, but it's not really a new point. Does it make
       | more sense if I read the other posts? Was there another section
       | at the bottom I missed due to their mobile UI (happens all the
       | time)?
        
         | gumby wrote:
         | This scratches at the surface of the very complex field of
         | hermeneutics (basically how can humans* understand the
         | semantics of utterances or other representations).
         | 
         | In the west it got its start in religious enquiry (loosely: the
         | Bible is ambiguous, or at least people disagree about
         | interpretation; can we figure out what the real underlying
         | message is and thus correct errors made by humans because
         | obviously the "real" text must be absolutely correct).
         | 
         | In the 20th century this discipline was broadened primarily by
         | Heidigger whose work is famously incomprehensible yet filled
         | with insight along with many others; it also lead to insight
         | (e.g. semiotics) and extreme absurdity (e.g. 99.9% of the
         | deconstructionists, sadly despite their having started with a
         | useful insight).
         | 
         | * and in more modern times, machines. I spent several years in
         | the 1980s working on how it even makes sense to talk about a
         | machine "understanding". It definitely changed how I view the
         | world, but IMHO so far has had essentially no impact on the
         | world itself.
        
           | sriku wrote:
           | Can you recommend some texts that would be good reads towards
           | understanding this subject better?
        
             | thebooktocome wrote:
             | Heidegger is, contrary to popular opinion, not that
             | unreadable. Stambaugh's revised translation of Being and
             | Time is really good.
             | 
             | The problem is laypeople expect to be able to understand
             | advanced philosophy without knowing anything about the
             | history that led to this point.
             | 
             | Nobody complains about, e.g., Weinberg's textbook on QFT
             | being unreadable. I think this is primarily because
             | Weinberg is basically unknown to people who haven't had 4+
             | years of physics education.
        
               | gumby wrote:
               | > Heidegger is, contrary to popular opinion, not that
               | unreadable. Stambaugh's revised translation of Being and
               | Time is really good.
               | 
               | I disagree (I've never tried reading him in translation).
               | His German coinage and turgid sentences are legendary. I
               | had one particularly obscurantist sentence from _Sein und
               | Zeit_ on my whiteboard for over a year and it was always
               | a source of discussion, both jocular and serious, when
               | someone came into my office.
        
               | thebooktocome wrote:
               | "I had an equation from _The Quantum Theory of Fields_ on
               | my whiteboard for over a year... "
        
               | gumby wrote:
               | And did it lead to better understanding?
               | 
               | This is the kind of phenomenon I miss in remote work
        
               | dajohnson89 wrote:
               | OK. And is there any basic foundation for starting, that
               | enables one to understand Heidegger well? Some kind of
               | primer for continental philosophy?
        
               | thebooktocome wrote:
               | The "very short introduction" series has done a lot of
               | work trying to make these folks more presentable, with
               | varying levels of success.
               | 
               | You could also start with some of heidegger's shorter
               | works like What is Called Thinking? or the one about
               | technology (I'm not sure what the popular translation of
               | the title is).
        
             | ssivark wrote:
             | There's a nice documentary movie titled "Being in the
             | world" (available on YouTube and elsewhere) which
             | introduces a nice flavor of Heidegger. I've also heard good
             | things about Hubert Dreyfus' interpretation/translation of
             | Heidegger.
        
         | jawarner wrote:
         | It seems buried here:
         | 
         | > Perhaps this accounts for the widely-reported sense of
         | unreality that plagues so many of us.
         | 
         | The idea is that interpreting content on the Internet leads
         | people to become more self-conscious about how they interpret
         | reality, which causes it to be less "real."
        
           | pacbard wrote:
           | Prefacing that I am not a philosopher, but I think that
           | hermeneutics would reject the idea that "real" and "reality"
           | can exist outside of the interpretation that people have of
           | something that has happened. To an extent, real and reality
           | is the same and one with its interpretation. You get into
           | these weird spots where two people could experience the same
           | event, interpret it in different ways, leading up to two
           | different "realities" of the event. I don't know enough to
           | know how this would be reconciled within hermeneutic
           | epistemology, but that's something interesting to keep in
           | mind.
        
             | tines wrote:
             | But isn't "determining the one true actual meaning of a
             | thing" the entire point of hermeneutics? Or rather,
             | hermeneutics is a technique for objectively determining
             | what something does _not_ mean, which is incompatible with
             | the idea that reality doesn't exist outside an
             | interpretation.
        
               | 1MoreThing wrote:
               | Detecting wrong answers doesn't tell you anything about
               | how many right answers there might be.
        
               | pacbard wrote:
               | I honestly don't know. I am not well read in hermeneutics
               | to have any sort of opinion on it.
               | 
               | It looks like Stanford's encyclopedia of philosophy [^1]
               | might have a good introduction on the intersection of
               | truth and hermeneutics. A quick skim of that section
               | appears to fuse together ideas from aesthetics, ethics,
               | and linguistics to build a conception of truth that is
               | not based in traditional positivist epistemology. Again,
               | I am not a philosopher so I don't really know what I am
               | talking about.
               | 
               | [1]: https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/hermeneutics/#Con
               | tHerm_1
        
             | chub500 wrote:
             | I have to say, hermeneutics is something our western
             | culture has become catastrophically bad at. When the
             | failure of postmodernism became apparent (truths
             | unfortunately must be shared to take any corporate action
             | in society), we seem to have reverted directly back into a
             | Nietzschian nihilism, every group only exists as a means to
             | power. This has begun to erode traditional modernist
             | western ideals which the postmodernists seemed to allow:
             | offensive speech isn't necessarily wrong, interpretation
             | and truth are two sides to the same coin, etc.
        
       | jvalencia wrote:
       | I think a helpful point for most would be that hermeneutics is
       | the study of how to interpret things (most generally). For
       | example, how do we interpret the constitution of the USA? You
       | choose a hermeneutic either implicitly or explicitly by which you
       | then interpret the document.
       | 
       | I think the duality in US politics today is largely one of what
       | hermeneutic one uses to interpret the news, for example.
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | [deleted]
        
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