[HN Gopher] Chrome 89 Beta: Advanced Hardware Interactions, Web ...
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       Chrome 89 Beta: Advanced Hardware Interactions, Web Sharing on
       Desktop, and More
        
       Author : pjmlp
       Score  : 66 points
       Date   : 2021-01-31 21:02 UTC (1 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (blog.chromium.org)
 (TXT) w3m dump (blog.chromium.org)
        
       | dheera wrote:
       | > Web Serial API
       | 
       | I built various web interfaces to BLE devices and use the web BLE
       | API but the biggest annoyance is having to select the device
       | every time interactively. I really wish it were possible to
       | "remember" access to devices that have already been given
       | permission in the past. I wonder if the Web Serial API can do
       | this over Bluetooth ...
        
         | tyingq wrote:
         | I had a tech support job where one repeated irritation was end
         | users that had removed and reinserted a USB to Serial device.
         | Windows then randomly assigns COM92, or whatever. Now you have
         | to walk the customer through figuring out what COM port got
         | assigned.
        
         | taf2 wrote:
         | I agree - I can't wait for the query permissions API, I believe
         | that has specs to solve this problem... Check it out here:
         | https://webbluetoothcg.github.io/web-bluetooth/#permission-a...
        
         | bsimpson wrote:
         | When I hear "serial," my mind goes to those 9-holed round ports
         | on the back of a computer in the 90s. Didn't pay any attention
         | to that section until I read your comment. Thanks for the
         | nudge.
        
       | msoad wrote:
       | It's ironic that this page is using a GIF image instead of video.
       | It is suppose to be the forefront of web tech advancement
        
       | yegle wrote:
       | Chrome 89 also fixed a bug on Android that caused unreliable
       | Autofill popup.
       | 
       | https://bugs.chromium.org/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=101494...
       | is the bug.
        
       | baybal2 wrote:
       | Now it's perfect, so now, Sergey will let people to pwn your 3D
       | printer over the browser?
       | 
       | Even IE6 was not such a security model garbage. Even ActiveX did
       | not let the browser talk to hardware directly.
        
       | ArmandGrillet wrote:
       | Tangentially related: if you have noticed that the CPU of your
       | Mac is going crazy since the release of Chrome 88, a fix will be
       | out on Tuesday:
       | https://bugs.chromium.org/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=115279...
        
       | RedComet wrote:
       | I don't care for most of that. But what's unlisted is the fix for
       | android autofill that is landing with it.
        
       | catchmeifyoucan wrote:
       | Web serial seems awesome! The ability to interface Hobbyist
       | devices without the Arduino IDE (which I hope will work here) is
       | one step closer to everything on web as a universal platform
        
       | frongpik wrote:
       | Very cool. How's uBlock Origin support? It's funny how these days
       | I have to check before upgrading that uBO won't be crippled.
        
         | dstaley wrote:
         | There currently is no public date for the deprecation of
         | Manifest v2 extensions, so I think you'll be fine with uBlock
         | Origin for a while to come.
        
       | taf2 wrote:
       | Super excited to see WebHID landing! I have code to control
       | lights via a browser application and finally will be able to
       | release this!
       | 
       | Also NFC support is huge - I can imagine all kinds of neat
       | activation features for a website. Imagine sending a flyer in the
       | mail with an NFC chip built in and then having a webpage verify
       | based on this... Lot of really neat IOT apps that can be created
       | with this feature...
       | 
       | BLE is amazing and I really wish we had the query permissions
       | API... since that would allow for heart monitors and other
       | permeant native app like experiences...
        
         | m00dy wrote:
         | I think it is mostly for cloud gaming
        
           | taf2 wrote:
           | I think it's also for call centers... which employee a lot of
           | people... think head phones, even specialized hardware
           | buttons to answer phone calls, place calls on hold etc... and
           | being able to distribute the software part all via the web...
           | WebRTC and WebHID - will be very happy together...
        
         | gregsadetsky wrote:
         | Is there some information on the "bandwidth"/latency of WebHID
         | devices? Specifically, could it work with a low resolution-ish
         | video feed?
         | 
         | I'm specifically thinking of a very niche type of device,
         | specifically an inexpensive VGA/analog video capture usb
         | "stick" called "EasyCap". This particular name has been re-used
         | by many manufacturers who all sell EasyCaps with different
         | chips in them, which makes finding a working driver a complete
         | nightmare across almost all operating systems.
         | 
         | After much research, it turns out that Linux had native support
         | for the chip in my EasyCap, and I was able to capture video
         | using ffmpeg (under VirtualBox running on macOS). Happy to
         | share notes! (reply here or email me)
         | 
         | Insane list of different drivers for EasyCaps under Windows:
         | https://visser.io/2015/06/easycap-drivers-for-windows-8-1/
         | ("Below is a link to the Windows 7 drivers that were compatible
         | with my EasyCAP device and further down a list of other EasyCAP
         | drivers you can try.")
         | 
         | Info on existing versions/chips & Linux support:
         | https://www.linuxtv.org/wiki/index.php/Easycap ("It seems that
         | EasyCAP is not a company or brand name, but some chinese
         | manufacturers use this label for at least four completely
         | hardware different clones of equally looking audio and video
         | capture devices. EasyCAP devices and clones are vastly sold in
         | onlineshops at low prices.")
        
           | voltagex_ wrote:
           | HID is not built for that kind of use.
        
             | gregsadetsky wrote:
             | Thanks! HID in general? WebHID? Is it a bandwidth/data
             | limitation? Something enforced by Chrome?
        
         | Aaargh20318 wrote:
         | Reading the justification for WebHID I get the feeling I'm
         | missing something:
         | 
         | > There is a long tail of human interface devices (HIDs) that
         | are too new, too old, or too uncommon to be accessible by
         | systems' device drivers. The WebHID API solves this by
         | providing a way to implement device-specific logic in
         | JavaScript.
         | 
         | > (...)
         | 
         | > The inability to access uncommon or unusual HID devices is
         | particularly painful, for example, when it comes to gamepad
         | support. Gamepad inputs and outputs are not well standardized
         | and web browsers often require custom logic for specific
         | devices. This is unsustainable and results in poor support for
         | the long tail of older and uncommon devices.
         | 
         | So instead of only having to implement support for these
         | devices once (in the browser), they now expect every website
         | that would need support for these kind of devices to write
         | their own code to handle all these 'long tail' input devices ?
         | 
         | How does that not make the problem infinitely worse ?
         | 
         | Instead of convincing one party to implement and support the
         | code to handle your obscure HID, now you beee to convince
         | potentially millions of websites. All running different
         | implementations with their own unique bugs and issues.
         | 
         | This sounds less like an effort from the Chrome team to add
         | support for these devices and more like a way to make it
         | someone else's problem.
        
           | foota wrote:
           | It's not like every device will or could be supported
           | reasonably by a browser. This allows support to be done by
           | those who care about it.
        
         | ksec wrote:
         | NFC is going to be Great and could replace a lot of ugly QR
         | Code usage.
         | 
         | But NFC is currently locked on all iOS devices.
        
           | Deathmax wrote:
           | Core NFC has been available since iOS 11
           | (https://developer.apple.com/documentation/corenfc). You
           | don't have full access to implement for example contactless
           | EMV payments, but you can read and write data to NFC tags.
        
             | ksec wrote:
             | OH wow. I stand Corrected. Thank You.
             | 
             | I wish Safari implement something like WebNFC soon. I just
             | dont like QR Code.
        
           | baybal2 wrote:
           | Except NFC readers are missing in a good portion of Android
           | phones sold to countries where most of people live.
           | 
           | Just through that alone, QR codes will be a default choice
           | over NFC.
           | 
           | NFC feel to be becoming a US version of FeliCa.
        
       | 0xy wrote:
       | Is the Chrome team still hellbent on killing ad-blocking with the
       | half-baked Manifest changes that will render uBlock useless? How
       | much longer will ad-blocking be supported?
        
         | vbezhenar wrote:
         | There's dedicated API to support url blocking. Some uBlock
         | features might be unavailable, but most features can be
         | implemented with new API.
        
       | Waterluvian wrote:
       | Web nfc excites me because I want to play with an idea where my
       | kids earn tokens and add them to their score cards. But I don't
       | want to put a whole mobile application together.
        
       | afandian wrote:
       | Call me cynical but with things like HID and NFC, this feels
       | _very_ "embrace extend extinguish".
        
         | SulfurHexaFluri wrote:
         | The competition is already pretty much extinguished.
        
         | eznzt wrote:
         | The evergrowing scope of browsers, designed so only Google
         | (and, by now, Mozilla, but only because Google allow them to
         | exist) can create one and keep it updated.
        
           | userbinator wrote:
           | _and, by now, Mozilla, but only because Google allow them to
           | exist_
           | 
           | Why does Mozilla need permission from Google to exist? That
           | sounds very very wrong.
        
             | eznzt wrote:
             | Because if Google stops paying them, they will go out of
             | business.
        
             | pjmlp wrote:
             | It needs their money.
        
           | kreeben wrote:
           | >> but only because Google allow them to exist
           | 
           | It is good that Google still allows Firefox to exist. I hope
           | this love for my go to browser lasts. Every day I pray it
           | will last. I'm scared though, because deep in my heart of
           | hearts, I know it won't last.
        
           | tpmx wrote:
           | Yeah. Browsers are unfortunately OS:es now, finally realizing
           | pmarca's dream of reducing Windows to a "poorly debugged set
           | of device drivers".
        
             | waingake wrote:
             | Alan Kay reckons they aren't OS:es enough
             | https://www.quora.com/Should-web-browsers-have-stuck-to-
             | bein...
        
               | tpmx wrote:
               | Did that response give you any insight (besides the
               | historical flashbacks, which are nice)?
        
           | izacus wrote:
           | So what's the other option? Apple world where browsers are
           | crippled and everyone builds software for proprietary
           | platforms with gatekeepers?
        
             | tpmx wrote:
             | Ther other path is to view browsers as viewers of sometimes
             | dynamic documents. There is a certain power in limiting the
             | amount of expressiveness in the web - it allows for a lot
             | more creative repackaging.
             | 
             | Unfortunately this path doesn't allow for much targetted
             | advertising opportunities, so that's why Google et al
             | wisely abandoned this path. ( /s )
        
               | izacus wrote:
               | Dynamic documents fundamentally can't achieve the
               | usefulness of modern web applications though.
               | 
               | The fact of the matter is that web still seems to be the
               | last bastion of freedom where you have a decent chance of
               | publishing your software without begging for approval
               | from a Californian. It's also inherently portable and
               | doesn't care which brand of laptop or phone did you buy.
               | 
               | Which is why the rent seekers are trying so hard to
               | dismantle it instead of empowering it.
        
               | pjmlp wrote:
               | ChromeOS is the end goal of Google, beware of the basket
               | where you are putting your eggs on.
        
               | tpmx wrote:
               | I wish there could be a clear distinction between
               | applications (like gmail) and web pages (like nyt).
        
               | izacus wrote:
               | I agree with you on that.
        
               | tpmx wrote:
               | 4 javascript devs disagree, apparently.
        
               | userbinator wrote:
               | I'd say 99% of sites out there don't need the "usefulness
               | of modern web applications" at all. They are strictly
               | linked sets of documents, with some interactivity through
               | forms and such.
               | 
               |  _It 's also inherently portable and doesn't care which
               | brand of laptop or phone did you buy._
               | 
               | ...as long as it's running Google's software.
        
             | josteink wrote:
             | > Apple world where browsers are crippled
             | 
             | I'm perfectly fine with crippled browsers. In fact I prefer
             | them to be. Even current browsers are way beyond scope and
             | IMO should be slimmed down.
        
               | scrollaway wrote:
               | What you're perfectly fine with is slimmer browsers.
               | Crippled browsers, as in the ones in Apple's world, are
               | browsers where the supported specs and features are
               | selectively chosen for political / competitive reasons.
               | It's absolutely not healthy.
        
         | bla3 wrote:
         | You don't understand what "extend embrace extinguish" meant.
         | It's a tactic MS used to take control of a technology it, with
         | the goal of making it unviable -- see the "extinguish' part.
         | Back then, it was in Microsoft's interest that people used
         | native windows apps to keep them in the MS ecosystem. The web
         | was good for makers of other OSs like Apple. Nowadays, Apple
         | tries to keep the web in lame duck mode for the same reason.
         | Google wants the web to be powerful not to neuter it but
         | because it's in their interest. You can argue if the web
         | _should_ be an app platform, but applying "embrace extend
         | extinguish" to Chrome misunderstands the motivation of Google.
        
           | afandian wrote:
           | I'm more interested in Firefox vs Chrome. I simply want to be
           | able to use the web without using Google.
           | 
           | By raising the bar on shiny but non-essential features, they
           | make it harder for an open source browser to play. The new
           | features may be fun options today but sooner or later those
           | features will become standard, and website X won't work
           | without Chrome.
           | 
           | From TFA:
           | 
           | > There is a long tail of human interface devices (HIDs) that
           | are too new, too old, or too uncommon to be accessible by
           | systems' device drivers
           | 
           | I can easily imagine a banking website one day requiring
           | custom USB drivers for security. Similar things happened with
           | ActiveX and IE in the MS EEE days.
        
           | userbinator wrote:
           | Google's version of EEE is to churn the "standards"
           | continuously by changing and adding to them rapidly to make
           | it hard to even implement them, while also spreading widely
           | the propaganda to cause developers to use the new parts ---
           | even if not actually necessary. See all the static content
           | sites turned into (increasingly often, Chrome-only) horrible
           | SPAs.
           | 
           | There's a reason the word "deprecate" occurs so ridiculously
           | often in the web development --- Google's weapon of monopoly
           | is _change_ : they are basically trying to outrun
           | competitors. It's not Microsoft's proprietariness, but a
           | brazenly open show of sheer power.
        
             | scrollaway wrote:
             | Occam's razor, and my familiarity with the industry, both
             | tell me it's not malicious but rather just various shades
             | of incompetence & misaligned incentives that are producing
             | such high amount of "spec churn".
             | 
             | But if it were a strategy, "EEE" or "Embrace Extend
             | Extinguish" is not a good term for it. Maybe call it EEEE.
             | "Extend Extend Extend Extend".
        
               | mattkevan wrote:
               | In Google's case it's perhaps EELIE, embrace, extend,
               | lose interest, extinguish.
        
           | kreeben wrote:
           | >> Google wants Google to be powerful
           | 
           | >> applying "embrace extend extinguish" to Chrome hits the
           | nail on its head when it comes to the motivation of Google
           | 
           | Fixed some things for you.
        
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       (page generated 2021-01-31 23:00 UTC)