[HN Gopher] Regular afternoon naps linked to improved cognitive ...
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Regular afternoon naps linked to improved cognitive function
Author : prostoalex
Score : 144 points
Date : 2021-01-30 19:52 UTC (3 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.sciencefocus.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.sciencefocus.com)
| neiman wrote:
| While regular afternoon naps may be linked to improved cognitive
| function, regular afternoon naps _after_ food are strongly linked
| to my stomach aches.
| kevindeasis wrote:
| Didn't really read the article thoroughly, but it looks like
| there is a selection bias
|
| I've tried afternoon naps throughout my life I'm part of the
| distribution where it only made my cognitive function and
| physical performance worse.
|
| It's been years since I tried it last, so I'll def check it out.
| So far the best thing for my cognitive function from all my
| experiments is to have a good night sleep, eat healthy, meditate,
| have passions, and exercise. This doesn't mean Im consistent with
| it as sometimes it gets boring.
|
| I noticed if you want your brain to get functionally good at
| something, these healthy habits will only take you half way
| there. There are other mental models that you're not gonna learn
| from simply being healthy.
| etothepii wrote:
| I tried polyphasic sleeping for a while when I worked at an
| IBank. I remember it as one of the most productive periods of my
| life but it was incredibly anti social and got the strangest
| looks from management.
|
| I'd do 35 minute naps with an alarm at 0430, 0830, 1230, 1630,
| and without an alarm at 2030 and 0030 (on the basis that I
| thought my body would sleep through if I was "doing any damage").
|
| It made going out at the weekends or playing poker in a casino
| incredibly difficult so after 3 weeks I had to pack it in.
|
| I was lucky to live a 5 minute, folding, bicycle ride from the
| office but I also had a little card I'd leave on my desk for the
| corner that said, "I have not collapsed I'm having a nap."
|
| The one thing I've kept from those days is that I still wear a
| sleep mask to bed.
| fsiefken wrote:
| Ah, I did it for a year and started before my first child was
| born. At 3 weeks my body finally transitioned to polyphasic
| sleeping (similar time as to the transition to dvorak typing)
| and I was finally functioning through all the sleep
| deprivation. Concentration was similar to monophasic sleeping.
|
| I could take care of the baby while my girlfriend was sleeping
| at night and I could go out or work on my hobbies all night
| (with 27m naps) without any problem. It was like I was a
| liberating experience, I watched the whole of society shutdown
| at night, but I was awake every day all by myself, it was very
| odd. I also realized I didn't really need a house if I could
| sleep anywhere, except in winter - but I started thinking I
| could just sleep 30m here and there (in trains, at work, in the
| park on a bench) perhaps with electric blankets. A real nomad
| lifestyle. I also noticed that I had to force myself being
| productive at night as my executive function wasn't quite there
| - it was like my mind was used to doing nothing consciously at
| night, an unconscious part didn't really see a point in being
| awake and doing things at night - so I mostly just was sitting
| there, contemplating or meditating. When I made a todo list it
| was better.
|
| As I also had to organize naps outside and at friends and
| family places it caused some tension and conflicts (I can tell
| some really wild stories) - and eventually, also because I
| didn't want to risk potential long term issues I went to 2 naps
| and eventually 1 nap each day.
|
| Regarding 35 minutes, you risk entering deep sleep with 35m, at
| least I did when I went over 30m a nap. Or did you mean 25
| minutes?
| gopalv wrote:
| > I remember it as one of the most productive periods of my
| life but it was incredibly anti social and got the strangest
| looks from management.
|
| The modern WFH culture has probably made it easier to do that
| than ever before (plus the lack of social schedules from the
| lockdown).
|
| I did a modified Uberman sleep schedule while I was home taking
| care of my dad & working - the forced isolation, the fact that
| I would have to wake up every 3 hours to check on him & living
| in India, while working US hours anyway messing up my schedules
| of sleep supported the transition.
|
| The process took almost two weeks to get into it, but lasted a
| whole two months & if I had to go back to it, all I would add
| to it is some exercise to sync up with the sun rising.
|
| I think we as a species are naturally capable of doing short
| nap rests, at least for periods of several months, because that
| schedule of ~1 hour of rest for every 3 hours is literally what
| taking care of a newborn demands.
| xyst wrote:
| guess this is better than masturbating during the day and
| copious amounts of cocaine and prostitutes
| granshaw wrote:
| I think this goes to show how many beneficial routines or
| habits are untenable simply because of the society we live in.
|
| See also certain diets, not drinking alcohol, etc
| [deleted]
| hntrader wrote:
| You're blessed to be able to get to sleep so rapidly. For me,
| the stress of that type of job + coffee would kill that
| ability. Even without these two antagonists I would have no
| hope of being able to do that.
| tubularhells wrote:
| Have you ever tried? Coffee is easy to cut. Just don't have
| any at home.
| hntrader wrote:
| Yeah, it still takes me 60 minutes to sleep, because my
| mind is busy. I need meditation, medication, or something.
| gamegoblin wrote:
| YMMV, but I would also try cutting out sugar, and adding
| melatonin. I cut out caffeine and sugar about 5 months
| ago, and consistently take 3mg of melatonin 1 hour before
| bed and went from 60+ minutes to fall asleep to less than
| 5 minutes.
|
| Apparently insulin regulation plays a big part in sleep
| quality, hence the effect of sugar. Another nice side
| effect is I've lost about 7kg without counting any
| calories or making any real effort to.
| lowercased wrote:
| Throwing in a bit more with YMMV...
|
| Xmg of melatonin is hard to measure, because there's
| apparently not great accuracy in most OTC pills. And...
| it may take you days to confirm if a specific pill is
| 'working' well or not. If/when you find a combination,
| buy a bunch to have on hand.
|
| I recently received the book "why we sleep" and it
| discussed melatonin's process. If "1 hour before bed"
| works for you, that's good, but it never did for me. ~3
| hrs did. Or... at least 2-3 hours at this time of the
| year. My routine has been taking a melatonin between 6
| and 7ish, and by 10 I'm typically quite 'ready' for
| sleep, and it's usually a fast process. It doesn't _seem_
| like it in the moment, but my wife has noticed I 'm "out
| like a light" (which I think is more just in comparison
| to months ago).
| carrozo wrote:
| Been the same forever but I've recently found 5-10
| minutes of deep, slow, and focused breathing (in through
| nose, out through mouth) results in me falling asleep
| very quickly after.
| albertgoeswoof wrote:
| If you only have 60 minutes to sleep, eventually it'll
| work
| pmiller2 wrote:
| I don't know if there's definitive research saying this, but
| this ability to fall asleep quickly may be due to sleep
| deprivation. However, polyphasic sleep is linked to lower
| academic performance and increased daytime sleepiness. [0]
| That makes me think that the "benefit" is possibly an
| illusion due to the antidepressant effect of sleep
| deprivation.
|
| ---
|
| [0]: Studies linked here:
| https://www.verywellhealth.com/pros-and-cons-of-a-
| polyphasic...
| irishloop wrote:
| I have a very difficult time falling asleep if I know I have to
| wake up shortly.
| layer8 wrote:
| ...in people aged 60 and over.
| bpodgursky wrote:
| Yeah it's kind of ridiculous to not include this. It's like a
| headline,
|
| "Eating every 2 hours shown to improve cognitive function [in
| infants aged 0-6 weeks]"
| DevKoala wrote:
| It doesn't sound like other variables were eliminated in this
| study. For example, what if everybody who is able to take a nap
| held and office job and is now retired while those who don't nap
| still have to work? Sometimes I will go nap with a problem in my
| head and will wake up with the solution. I believe it helps, but
| I still don't know if it is a placebo effect.
| christophilus wrote:
| Agreed. Also, the kinds of people who have the leisure /
| freedom to take naps probably already have a lot of advantages
| over those who can't. Those advantages might be the key
| difference.
| eznzt wrote:
| Naps are also linked to increased consumption of Cruzcampo.
| gfodor wrote:
| The big new parenting hack I discovered late in the game are 2-3
| _scheduled_ 20 minute naps. Totally mitigates the worst effects
| of sleep fragmentation and depravation. You don't feel 100% but
| the 80% you do feel makes it way different than the abject misery
| of going a whole day after 2-3 hours of sleep.
|
| The scheduled part is critical since it ensures you get to the
| point where your body drops right to REM and you actually get
| your naps instead of presuming you will find the time and then
| life manages to get in the way.
| adamnemecek wrote:
| I'm not surprised. You are most productive from like 9 to 12. A
| nap allows you to have two productive sessions.
| layer8 wrote:
| Only people with a morning chronotype. I'm more productive in
| the late afternoon and evening.
| t-writescode wrote:
| That's certainly not when I'm most productive. 4-7pm crowd
| here!
| adamnemecek wrote:
| Are you employed? I had weird productivity times when I was
| employed but when I quit my job I realized my productivity
| times are actually early in the morning. The best days are
| when I start working at 7 am. But noon, you have done a whole
| day.
| t-writescode wrote:
| Employed 10 or 11 years now. I'm in my mid 30s.
|
| Some people are just wired differently :)
| xutopia wrote:
| I would love to have the time for afternoon naps. I mean if I
| could fit it sure I'd have better cognitive functions but what's
| to say that staying awake and doing what I do is not more
| productive anyway? Maybe I don't need that jolt and can function
| fine without the nap... I'll have another coffee.
| redcalx wrote:
| I find if I'm working on a difficult problem, I feel like I can
| make more rapid progress if I take a 'nap' early afternoon in
| that post lunch drowsy period. I often start thinking about the
| problems again immediately on waking, and typically find that is
| the most productive period in terms of breakthroughs and making
| mental connections.
|
| I put 'nap' in quotes because I don't set an alarm (unless there
| is specific need to), and for me that usually means a 2 hour
| sleep! I figure that is made up of 90 mins of one sleep cycle,
| and some time either side for falling asleep and waking.
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sleep_cycle
|
| All made possible by pandemic working from home.
| singingfish wrote:
| 45 minutes is a good period as it gets you to the beginning of
| your REM cycle. I often aim for 45 minutes as a nap, but for
| reasons I don't understand, 20 minutes can be
| disproportionately invigorating.
| redcalx wrote:
| As I understand it REM sleep is at the start and end of each
| cycle, thus 45 mins would put you squarely in a deep non-REM
| phase. That said, the cycles get progressively shorter in an
| overnight sleep, so it's possible a daytime nap sleep cycle
| would be much shorter than the full 90 mins.
| singingfish wrote:
| From memory (my 25 year old psychology degree which I
| clearly misremembered previously), the point of 45 minutes
| is that it gets you to just before the deep sleep cycle. If
| you can wake up naturally and alert at around that time
| mark then you've got the complete light sleep part of the
| cycle.
| theelous3 wrote:
| > The average length of nighttime sleep was around 6.5 hours in
| both groups, though no information was taken on the specific
| duration or timing of the naps taken
|
| Sounds like they were just underslept people?
| trianglem wrote:
| These are people aged over 60. This is kind of normal for that
| age group.
| jb775 wrote:
| I'd think 6.5 hours is above or close to the average amount of
| sleep most people get.
| pmiller2 wrote:
| I don't know about you, but I need, and typically get between
| 7-9 hours of sleep per night. Less than 7 and I feel sleep
| deprived. More than 9 and I don't feel sleep deprived _per
| se_ , but I don't have much energy (physical or mental),
| either.
| methyl wrote:
| But not what most people should get.
| ithkuil wrote:
| Would the extra time work even if want an afternoon nap but a
| longer night sleep?
| 01100011 wrote:
| Lately I've noticed I do much better off 5.5-6.5 hours of
| sleep. I've been fighting brain fog and fatigue lately so
| occasionally I try to force myself to sleep more and it just
| makes my problems worse.
| Berobero wrote:
| - Average sleep varies fairly significantly internationally
| (https://www.economist.com/1843/2018/03/01/which-countries-
| ge...), and regionally just in the US
| (https://www.cdc.gov/sleep/data_statistics.html)
|
| - Average sleep is, obviously, not necessarily optimal;
| recommendations seem to tend towards 7+ hours on average
| (e.g.
| https://www.cdc.gov/sleep/about_sleep/how_much_sleep.html),
| and there's of course data to support that recommendation
| (again https://www.cdc.gov/sleep/data_statistics.html)
| themodelplumber wrote:
| Interesting that the article is so dementia-focused, which I
| didn't expect.
|
| Personally, naps do enough good for me that I regularly use
| L-theanine or melatonin to help those happen.
|
| I've also been experimenting with taking L-theanine about an hour
| after waking in the morning, to encourage pre-noon naps, usually
| happening sometime between 8-11 am. This is because overnight
| sleep quality and sleep cycles can vary from day to day, so I
| find a bit of a "reset" nap in a more controlled environment (my
| office) can provide additional mood and executive support.
|
| It seems a bit ridiculous now to consider how much of a daily
| energy bet I was making on the outcome of a single 6-10 hour
| overnight period, which could be affected/moderated by all kinds
| of factors.
| mckirk wrote:
| L-theanine is awesome!
|
| I'm wondering though, are you using melatonin during the day to
| take naps?
| themodelplumber wrote:
| I agree!
|
| Yep, I do use melatonin during the day but at a lowered dose.
| Usually 150mcg or half of one of the tablets I take at night.
| 300mcg is for me nearly a guarantee that I'll nap for 3
| hours, and those oversleep results (depending on last night's
| sleep, but usually it'd be oversleep) are not enjoyable at
| all.
|
| Edit: I've also taken a quarter tablet or about 75mcg to calm
| down after a long day, and I'm glad I tried it.
| mckirk wrote:
| That's really interesting, I hadn't considered that it
| could be used for naps! Have you noticed it "confusing"
| your circadian rhythm at all? As in, do you need to take
| extra care to not get your rhythm out of whack when you use
| it during daytime daytime? Intuitively, that would be the
| biggest potential downside I can see.
|
| Also, I'm honestly a bit jealous that you have 300mcg
| tablets; the best I could find is 1mg in a capsule and to
| split that I have to do volumetric dosing. But at least
| it's not the insane amounts you exclusively find in
| American pharmacies, heh.
| wilsonfiifi wrote:
| In case anyone's interested, here's a Wikipedia article [0] about
| that good afternoon siesta! [0]
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siesta
| imwally wrote:
| I've always been jealous of those who can nap. For whatever
| reason my body just doesn't want to fall asleep. Even at night it
| usually takes me over an hour to fall asleep. Anyone else unable
| to nap?
| DamnInteresting wrote:
| I have the same shortcoming; when I try to nap I seldom
| succeed. When I _do_ succeed, I usually awake feeling worse,
| like I have whole-body morning mouth. I wish I had that napping
| power, I 've seen what it can do for others.
| klyrs wrote:
| I used to be unable to nap. However, sometimes I'd feel
| nappish, and just fake it. Close your eyes, slow your
| breathing, focus your attention on the sound of your breath.
| After 20 minutes, get up. That never failed for me.
|
| I'm a bit older now, and I can actually fall asleep in midday
| naps. Sometimes. But I still feel energized after a nap, sleep
| or no.
|
| For nighttime, I refuse to fail to sleep. When I start yawning,
| it's my bedtime, and I'm out like a light. If I try to sleep
| but I'm still bored 10 minutes in, it's not time yet. I've
| learned that if I try for an hour, I'll still be trying come
| morning.
| randycupertino wrote:
| Here's a trick my coworker invented that helps me fall asleep:
| Spell the name of an author you like forwards, and then
| backwards, and then forwards again, and backwards, repeating
| and repeating until you fall asleep. I've gotten to the point
| where I do it 2x and am out.
| I_AM_A_SMURF wrote:
| I used to be able to fall asleep anytime anywhere. Then I got
| diagnosed with Sleep Apnea. Now that I'm treating it and
| actually getting a good sleep it's very hard to nap, maybe
| these people are just sleep deprived? or a lot of them anyway.
| dimal wrote:
| I used to only be able to nap very rarely. Then I noticed that
| on the few days that I did nap, I had usually exerted myself
| physically. Then I started exercising regularly, just 2-3x a
| week at first. And suddenly, was able to nap. I actually just
| woke up from my regular Saturday afternoon nap. It's wonderful.
| nradov wrote:
| Also unable to nap. I usually sleep fine at night, no insomnia.
| But I can't fall asleep in the afternoon unless I'm severely
| sleep deprived. Even being physically tired from hard labor or
| exercise doesn't really make me able to nap.
| singingfish wrote:
| I use this concept of a "billable nap" ... it gets to the
| midafternoon and I'm deep in a programming problem, and my
| thought process gets far too fuzzy. So I can either spend a
| couple of hours or more struggling through, or I can shut my eyes
| for a bit 20 minutes idelally, and then nail the problem down in
| a much shorter time than without the nap.
| pmiller2 wrote:
| That can be a pretty hard sell if you work in an office for a
| company that doesn't have dedicated nap pods. I've never really
| felt comfortable taking a nap at the office, myself.
| singingfish wrote:
| yeah it's much easier to achieve as a remote worker in a
| different time zone. In my time zone, my nap time tends to
| coincide with things winding up for the day at the
| mothership.
| pmiller2 wrote:
| Even in the same time zone, it would be relatively easy for
| me to disappear for 30 minutes after lunch. All I'd have to
| do is block it off on my calendar as "busy," and nobody
| would ever say anything, which is how it should be when
| you're an adult working with other adults.
| I_AM_A_SMURF wrote:
| Yeah, my work pays me the same whether I work 40 or 60 hours,
| so I cut my day short whenever I know I'm not gonna be
| productive. Usually it saves me a few hour of struggling and
| the solution comes to me first thing in the morning. I'm also
| the top 5% committer in my company even though I almost never
| touch 35h/week (caveat: I don't advertise this behavior at work
| and I work from home). Companies would really do themselves a
| favor cutting the day short, 40h of coding/meetings/etc a week
| is way too much for a lot of people.
| M5x7wI3CmbEem10 wrote:
| how do you find a company okay with this?
| singingfish wrote:
| yeah totally. I'll rage against the 40 hour work week any
| time anyone will let me. Personally I think I've got around 5
| good coding hours in me in a day - ideally around 7:30 to
| 12:30. Schedule meetings for when I'm useless after that
| please.
| M5x7wI3CmbEem10 wrote:
| how do you find a company okay with this?
| singingfish wrote:
| well I mostly work remotely, and I have a reputation as
| someone who can get stuff done reliably.
|
| When I was last in an office full time, commuting on the
| train a few years ago I'd usually be the first in my team
| to arrive, and then first to leave - basically trying to
| do 7:30 to 4 but I'd generally be pretty useless for the
| last couple of hours of the day.
|
| Followed by a nap on the train.
| soared wrote:
| "billable walks" are the same - nothing helps focus like
| walking around around downtown with noise cancelling headphones
| on and letting life buzz all around you.
| singingfish wrote:
| I found that hanging out the laundry was a great way to nail
| down a tricky problem I'd been struggling with.
| wffurr wrote:
| Ah yes, The Before Times, back when we still worked downtown
| and there was life outside.
|
| A lot of places it's easier to fit in a walk or short bike
| ride than a nap, and it's just about as good for clearing the
| mind.
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(page generated 2021-01-30 23:00 UTC)