[HN Gopher] Solar-Powered, Off-Grid Bike Can Bust Poachers Anywhere
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Solar-Powered, Off-Grid Bike Can Bust Poachers Anywhere
Author : samizdis
Score : 72 points
Date : 2021-01-29 12:54 UTC (10 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.thedrive.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.thedrive.com)
| u678u wrote:
| I'd love to see noisy two stroke dirt bikes a thing of the past.
| Maybe the future isn't so bad after all. :)
| jack_riminton wrote:
| PR nonsense, there's nothing about the bike that makes it
| optimised for solar powering compared to its competitors
| jack_riminton wrote:
| Also, the Rhino stuff sounds like something a big corporate
| like LandRover would do as for a glossy National Geographic
| advert, its just weird coming from a startup
| gnarbarian wrote:
| Funny I was specifically looking for an electric fat bike this
| morning to assist in hunting next fall.
| samizdis wrote:
| Contact the makers. Perhaps they will do you a one-off scheme
| to offset your wildlife footprint.
| nkingsy wrote:
| Solar powered meaning it has a battery? I don't see panels on it
| driverdan wrote:
| $30k for a bike worth $10k. And yet people will buy it.
| nfriedly wrote:
| This is good, but I feel like it's solving the problem from the
| wrong angle.
|
| The best way to reduce poaching is to reduce the demand. I know
| there are ongoing efforts to do exactly that, but it's a hard
| problem and obviously hasn't had 100% success so far.
|
| I think the next best way to reduce poaching, though, is to meet
| the demand with a legal supply. License and regulate farms for
| the black rhino and any other animal that is a frequent victim of
| poaching. Obviously this is also hard, but it better aligns
| incentives. The farmers are, of course, going to care more about
| their animals than the wild ones, but they would also have a
| profit motive to reduce poaching of wild ones (because it will
| reduce their competition).
| bdamm wrote:
| Farming rhinos sounds great but this is one of those ideas with
| a maybe an unobtanium answer. I'd like to see a "farm" strong
| enough to contain a single rhino let alone an entire herd, and
| one that is profitable. The answer is to go after poaching at
| all angles possible; supply, demand, funding, trade,
| advertising, etc. Also illegal is elephant poaching, and we're
| not about to start farming elephants.
| nfriedly wrote:
| That's a fair point, but it brings a few thoughts to mind:
|
| 1. What about putting a GPS tracker or similar on each animal
| and just let it roam. I'm not sure, but maybe it could work.
|
| 2. Zoo's can profitably contain Rhino's and Elephants. My
| local zoo lets people pay the zoo to feed some of the
| animals! So maybe a tourism angle could help move the needle
| on profitability.
|
| 3. What if it was a government-run operation with out the
| need to be profitable? Current anti-poaching operations don't
| bring in any profit, so maybe this angle of attack doesn't
| need to either.
| true_religion wrote:
| Dig a pit and place the Rhino inside. Rhinos are strong, but
| they are terrible climbers.
| adrianmonk wrote:
| > _" farm" strong enough to contain a single rhino let alone
| an entire herd_
|
| One thought is to use a cattle grid:
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cattle_grid
|
| These are very common for regular livestock when there needs
| to be a gap in the fence for a road. But if a fence can't
| contain rhinos, it might be possible to use cattle grid for
| the entire perimeter.
|
| Do cattle grids work for rhinos? According to "The Cattle
| Grid Guru" (which bills itself as "The most extensive cattle
| grid guide on the web"), the answer is yes:
| https://www.cattlegridguru.co.uk/can-cattle-grids-be-used-
| wi...
| andrewflnr wrote:
| True globally, but if you're just a guy who happens to own a
| company making electric motorcycles, why not do what you can?
| (While also getting some PR, no reason to pretend that's not a
| factor)
| ed25519FUUU wrote:
| Poaching is one of those things where if there's continued high
| demand from SE Asia -- and in particular China -- there's going
| to be poaching issues.
|
| It's just the drug war. You must reduce the demand.
| samfisher83 wrote:
| You might be better off giving the 30k to the poachers so they
| don't have to poach. I mean a lot of them are pretty poor.
| azinman2 wrote:
| How would one even go about that?
| jpcooper wrote:
| If anyone wants to find out more about solar-powered, off-grid
| bicycles, the BEHEMOTH (big electronic human energized machine)
| solar-powered (recumbent) bicycle really inspired me as a kid:
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dItCJUuFY4U
| nabilhat wrote:
| The $30k price is interesting, given that it's multiples of what
| established manufacturers are charging for electric dirtbikes
| with multiples of power, kWh, performance, and design maturity.
| The time in the electric motorcycle market where this would
| succeed is passing. Established motorcycle manufacturers appear
| to have been watching all of the upstarts establish distribution
| and supply chain paths before they commit to the e-motorcycle
| market. A few are beginning to move in, mostly offroad, but some
| onroad as well. Harley comes to mind, plus a scattering of moped-
| level bikes. It'll be interesting to see how Sondors, Cake, Zero,
| and others play out when an 800 pound gorilla like Honda hits
| their market with serious intent.
| black6 wrote:
| > ...it's a EUR1,000 ($1,210) deposit to get in on the scheme.
|
| A scheme is right. This is nothing but a PR puff piece.
| olivermarks wrote:
| Poachers will just steal the bikes or ransom them.
|
| https://www.thedrive.com/accelerator/38650/that-time-ari-vat...
| otikik wrote:
| Wow they are super expensive.
|
| They will be poaching the bikes themselves if ever one gets
| there.
| cmroanirgo wrote:
| > _Every Kalk AP bike purchased by a Cake customer sends one
| directly to anti-poaching conservationists_
|
| The purchase seems to cover the cost of manufacture of the
| second and to support the anti poaching efforts.
|
| > _it 's not really about the ultimate piece of equipment
| you're getting, but the opportunity to give anti-poachers what
| they need to do their very good work. Only 50 Kalk AP bikes
| will be made, all of which are numbered, so if you're feeling
| philanthropic... _
| dougmany wrote:
| It looks like a buy two get one price. I think the standard
| version is $13,000.
| chrisweekly wrote:
| For reference, a Specialized e-MTB (a mountain bike -- as in
| bicycle -- with pedal assist) is about $13k. And a very nice
| off-road -capable motorcycle (like a Triumph Scrambler, which
| can top 100mph on pavement, but has about 120? mile range)
| costs about the same.
| cogman10 wrote:
| Overly expensive.
|
| No way parts cost anywhere near that.
|
| The most expensive part on that thing is the battery. At an
| overly generous $200 per kwh (most are now closer to $150 with
| world leaders at $100) that battery would cost ~$500.
|
| So where is the rest of that $30000 budget going to? The
| panels? The motors? Shipping? R&D (lol)
|
| I wonder if someone got a contract to produce these things.
| andrewflnr wrote:
| I clicked through to the article about the company.
| Apparently they found it necessary to custom-make all their
| parts, and aren't yet doing high volume production. They
| expect the price to come down eventually.
| reillyse wrote:
| This
| swader999 wrote:
| I imagine the $30,340 cost for each bike could be used more
| effectively to help these rhinos. I'm no expert though.
| dubcanada wrote:
| Ignoring the green part you could probably send them 15-30 gas
| motorbikes for that.
| driverdan wrote:
| Maybe 10 low end Chinese bikes.
| dubcanada wrote:
| You can easily get a decent off-road Honda or Yamaha for
| 3k. If you shopped around you could easily get 15 at
| wholesale for $30k. And if you were donating them to a good
| cause, could probably find a reseller looking for some good
| PR and get 20.
| [deleted]
| 0-_-0 wrote:
| Not if the greatest danger to the rhinos are poachers.
| [deleted]
| samizdis wrote:
| As far as I can tell, it's not actually 30k for each bike. You
| pay the money and get a bike for yourself, plus another bike to
| be sent to the anti-poachers, and also solar-charging units to
| be sent to them as well. See:
|
| https://ridecake.com/en/shop/bikes/kalk/kalk-ap/
| WhompingWindows wrote:
| The bike can not bust poachers anywhere, the bike is simply a
| vehicle. Poachers are busted by other humans. So the challenge is
| getting the good guys to where the bad guys are, in time and in
| force. Does an extremely expensive bike achieve this cost-
| effectively? Why not use a fleet of drones to target your search
| and then use much cheaper gas-powered vehicles to head straight
| to the target? Why not spend the tens of thousands on lobbying
| governments to bust up marketplaces where the wares are sold:
| killing demand should kill the supply too.
| soperj wrote:
| From the article, they already use drones. They're not even
| making them pay for the bikes, they're sending them for free.
| at-fates-hands wrote:
| So its a marketing stunt then?
| soperj wrote:
| No, it's a buy one give one. There's only 50 of them.
| [deleted]
| exabrial wrote:
| $500 of gas shipped overseas in a $1200 Yamaha that gets 70mpg
| would be a far better investment and far more reliable.
| maxerickson wrote:
| The site here talks more about the overall project (it's slow
| already, so try to take it easy):
|
| https://wildlifecollege.org.za/cake-launches-the-kalk-ap-an-...
|
| That they have a local partner is at least better than not having
| a local partner. Don't know anything about the whole thing either
| way though.
| sparrish wrote:
| You won't find me riding around on a bike in an area with large
| predators (referring to the animals and the poachers). I'll
| insist on 4 wheels and a hard-shell cab... and a gun... a big
| gun.
| throwaway0a5e wrote:
| A bike doesn't help you if the poachers shoot back or if they're
| buddy buddy with your boss's boss.
|
| That said, I greatly look forward to electric OHVs because the
| Karens won't be able to get stuff shut down by complaining about
| noise. (What I don't look forward to is trails becoming "EV only"
| to keep the poors out of the sport.)
| jessaustin wrote:
| The obvious solution is to close all trails to vehicles which
| tend to destroy trails and vegetation.
| thaumasiotes wrote:
| That's... all vehicles, including feet.
| soperj wrote:
| They'd have to poach all the animals to accomplish that.
| [deleted]
| throwaway0a5e wrote:
| If you go full Sierra Club and shut down all but the "purest"
| forms of recreating in nature then basically nobody will
| recreate outdoors and there will be no opposition to
| destroying nature because so few people will have stake in
| the issue.
| Mediterraneo10 wrote:
| Indeed. The continued existence of wildlife parks in East
| Africa is largely supported by tourists doing sightseeing
| tours in vehicles. Close those trails down, you lower the
| income from tourism, and poaching and illegal land use
| return. (Just like now some of these wildlife conversation
| efforts are reportedly suffering from the COVID border
| closures.)
| amelius wrote:
| You take "close down" too literally. You can still allow
| tourists, if e.g. you check their cars to see if they
| didn't do anything illegal.
| Mediterraneo10 wrote:
| Please refer to the OP, who was talking about closing
| trails in order to prevent the wear-and-tear on the
| environment that vehicles exert.
| amelius wrote:
| Geofencing on vehicles could do that, but we're not there
| yet.
| news_to_me wrote:
| I'm one of those Karens -- fuck your bike's noise, it should be
| illegal, at least in the city. Electric can't get here soon
| enough so we can have fun and get some sleep too.
| SloopJon wrote:
| The first thing I notice is the chain. Ars Technica had a story
| earlier this week about the Sondors Metacycle: similar power,
| similar weight, but no chain. Also, $25,000 cheaper.
|
| https://arstechnica.com/cars/2021/01/this-electric-bicycle-c...
|
| Granted, that the Metacycle isn't an off-road bike, but I wonder
| which is better for reliability in an area so remote that you
| need solar charging: a chain, or a hub-mounted motor?
| nabilhat wrote:
| Direct drive hub mounted motors are constrained by low rpm
| operation and power delivery is limited to how much brute
| amperage you can force through them. They're often designed
| with a large diameter to compensate for the low rpm issues,
| which increases weight.
|
| Some bicycle-scale hub motors have built-in gear reduction,
| which reduces the available motor size and adds a barrier
| between the motor and air cooling. They're more efficient and
| lighter than direct drive motors, but heat retention limits
| constant power output.
|
| Watt-for-watt of power output, frame mounted motors can be much
| smaller and lighter. They can have excellent cooling (including
| liquid coolant circulated to a front mounted radiator), gear
| reduction allows them to operate at efficient speeds, they can
| be designed to target only efficiency rather than compromising
| to match hub size, and can be scaled fairly arbitrarily.
| ajuc wrote:
| I don't know about bikes, but in electric bicycles engine in
| the back wheel is much worse for offroad because of weight
| distribution. The huge, heavy battery these bikes have might
| change this.
| throwaway0a5e wrote:
| And unsprung weight is a much bigger deal when your vehicle
| actually has to use its suspension, weighs practically
| nothing, has 2" of sidewall, no contact patch to speak of,
| rims made out of toothpick, etc, etc. Hub motors just suck
| for bikes and motorcycles. You can kind of get away with them
| for driving on really nice surfaces but that all goes out the
| window for anything even mildly off road.
| bluejekyll wrote:
| While there are definitely challenges to in-wheel motors, I
| do wonder if we'll see more innovation over time on in-
| wheel suspension systems to compensate for the unsprung
| weight.
|
| Here's a neat example for one in a bike wheel [video]:
| https://youtu.be/DSKDH2NNmcA
|
| Here's a write-up:
| https://www.karmanhealthcare.com/acrobat-soft-wheels-
| shock-a...
|
| I'm sure putting a motor in there will be problematic due
| to stresses on the shock absorbers, but it does seem like
| sock absorbing spokes in wheels could help gain space in
| vehicles by moving the motors to the wheel.
|
| Edit: just to be clear I know little about the company and
| tech behind that wheel i linked to, I just find it to be an
| interesting area, and recently came across that.
| stickfigure wrote:
| Neat! But looks like maybe an inch or two of travel? Hard
| to imagine it would fare well in serious offroad
| conditions.
| throwaway0a5e wrote:
| Every little bit helps but that "wind up" action is going
| to really suck under acceleration/braking.
| aphextron wrote:
| Not sure why this is so expensive. EV dirt bikes with better
| performance than this are definitely a thing for 10% of the price
| [0].
|
| [0] https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/Other-Motorcycle-
| Chin...
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