[HN Gopher] Anger Management
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Anger Management
Author : whatami
Score : 40 points
Date : 2021-01-28 23:06 UTC (23 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (thepointmag.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (thepointmag.com)
| jasonv wrote:
| I've been looking for writing on grumpiness, which is slightly
| different than anger. There's very little out there specifically
| on grumpiness, though much writing on mood, mindfulness and
| awareness can be applied.
| jedimastert wrote:
| Personally I've found that grumpiness is usually a symptom.
| Either a physical imbalance (lack of sleep or food, for
| example) or a mental one (stress, unaddressed frustrations,
| etc)
| blindm wrote:
| > My decidedly Holocaust-centric childhood failed to instill in
| me hostile emotions toward Nazis, or anti-Semites generally.
|
| Stockholm syndrome?[0]
|
| [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stockholm_syndrome
|
| I remember a lyric by Rage Against the Machine that went:
| 'Anger is a gift'.
|
| Yes you can channel anger in positive ways, but I personally find
| it a low frequency emotion that serves no purpose.
| spaetzleesser wrote:
| In Buddhism anger is viewed as a poison. Over the years I am
| agreeing with this more and more. It seems lately it has become
| very fashionable to constantly being "outraged", "angry" or
| similar. Sometimes anger can motivate people to change things
| but usually it causes a lot of friction and prevents finding
| solutions to problems. Anger can also easily be exploited by
| political leaders.
| agurk wrote:
| I've seen the phrase "Anger is a good servant but a terrible
| master" used to encapsulate some of this. The idea being that
| if you control it but get energy from it then it can be used
| positively, but if you become angry and lose control then
| that will lead to bad things.
|
| I don't know if this can be squared with the Buddhist view
| however. Is seeing it as poison meant to say it's bad in all
| measures, or is there an appreciation of the dose making the
| poison?
| spaetzleesser wrote:
| There is a "wrathful Buddha". As far as I understand he is
| angry at the state of the world and uses this anger as
| motivation to reduce suffering.
|
| In the end I think most important is to keep perspective on
| things and don't get stuck at anger which so often seems to
| be the case.
| setpatchaddress wrote:
| This is definitely not the Buddhist view, which, clumsily
| reduced, is that you want to root out the cause of the
| anger, which is not actually external to you. (i.e. Your
| buddy doing something didn't make you angry; you chose at
| some level to get angry when your buddy did something.)
|
| There is no exception for "good anger" or "motivating
| anger".
|
| At least, I'm pretty sure that applies to all strains of
| Buddhism, but there are many, so YMMV.
| agumonkey wrote:
| Yeah I subscribe to that. Anger is a good sign, let it out
| slightly to get the message across, don't let it boil in,
| don't let it rot but don't ignore it.
| trestenhortz wrote:
| I used to get angry all the time. Really angry.
|
| One day my counselor said to me "listen, here's what I want you
| to do. When you're starting to feel angry, just ask yourself
| 'does this really matter?'. If it matters, go ahead get angry. If
| it doesn't matter then why bother getting angry?"
|
| I rarely get angry now because almost nothing actually matters
| enough to get angry, once you start to ask yourself the question.
| 0xdeadbeefbabe wrote:
| > Sometimes other people help us exactly by not feeling what we
| feel.
|
| Would this anger Sue Johnson and the EFT brigade? (EFT stands for
| emotionally focused therapist)
| glitchc wrote:
| > A few weeks ago, I was mailing my friend a gift for his
| upcoming birthday when I recalled that he got me nothing for my
| birthday. I experienced a flash of anger, and was tempted to
| trash the package instead of mailing it.
|
| This speaks more to the author's selfishness (more accurately
| childishness) rather than anger. The need to be completely
| reciprocated in every gesture is selfish and speaks to a zero-sum
| mindset.
|
| I know first-hand: Like the author I have been prone to fly off
| the handle much of my life, and only recently (past year or so)
| have realized that I was equating reciprocity with justice, and
| that is an incredibly narrow view of the world.
|
| This was an eye-opener: If everyone gave only as much as they
| got, the world would be a significantly meaner place. Rather,
| it's those who give without receiving that make the world a
| _better_ place.
|
| Since then, I stopped keeping score, give what I can when I can,
| and receive happily whatever is given to me, without judgement,
| although I am still working on that last bit (You gave me
| what?!?..), but then I've also stopped trying to be perfect.
| AlexandrB wrote:
| I think you're reading too much into the example. Later on the
| author expands on the event:
|
| > He was by my side as I experienced the flash of anger--which
| wasn't so much about the fact that my friend hadn't gotten me a
| gift, but the fact that he had endeavored to explain it away,
| to make excuses for himself, and the larger pattern of behavior
| that was embedded in...--and that was when my eyes darted in
| the direction of where I knew the trash can was.
|
| That's not even mentioning that we are not privy to all the
| details and history of the author's relationship with her
| friend.
| watwut wrote:
| The author did not flied ofd the handle and was not childish.
|
| The author experiences emotion which the author recognized,
| controlled, analyzed where it came from. The emotion itself
| helped the to realize long term pattern of behavior of the
| other person and think about it more and decide what to do
| about it.
|
| So it was both useful emotion and author succesfully controlled
| reaction to it. What is also good is that author does not
| pretend the emotion did not existed and is not trying to
| pretend that everything was pure logic whole time.
| jancsika wrote:
| > This speaks more to the author's selfishness (more accurately
| childishness) rather than anger.
|
| I think it speaks more to a lack of organizational skills. Have
| a single, low-impact moment of indignation _on your birthday_ ,
| then plan accordingly. :)
| coyotespike wrote:
| I disagree. There's nothing childish about "a flash of anger" -
| most people have many small impulses and feelings.
|
| I'd bet many people might make a small joke about the situation
| - but the joke depends on precisely that small unhappiness,
| even if they won't admit it (or can't, because they're not
| aware of it).
|
| "A flash of anger" (in the author's words) is very different
| from "fly[ing] off the handle" (in your words). Only the latter
| is childish.
|
| Being aware of the former sounds like your mature, balanced
| last sentence, where you still might have a little judgment
| about what you've been given but you're still responding with
| grace to the other person.
| patcon wrote:
| I'm thinking deeply on your comment, and appreciate it.
|
| Aren't these just degrees of the same? I'm not sure the value
| of cultivating positive view of the small manifestation, but
| then scolding it when it becomes big. Imho, yes it's
| understandable, but not a perspective we should value as part
| of our growth -- we should just work to will it out of our
| minds, and maybe someday succeed?
|
| Yours seems like a perspective that's valorizing the control
| of the impulse, putting fault in "lack of control", but still
| aspiring to salvage a wisdom compass from the feeling...?
| Many would say the core feeling doesn't truly serve us in any
| way that something more positive couldn't equally stand in
| for.
|
| Regardless, I appreciate your sharing your perspective. I'm
| willing to consider we're both right, and mumble mumble
| "different strokes for different folks", and the world works
| out only when we can both push for it as we please :)
| NortySpock wrote:
| Not your parent poster, but I view the initial emotional
| reaction to an event as "an emotion that is to be observed,
| cannot be prevented, but must only reach the surface if the
| situation calls for it."
|
| Say you are talking in a small group of people. You
| perceive something that someone says to you as an implied
| insult. You _will_ feel a flash of anger, you should
| observe that you are angry as it bubbles up through you,
| but you MUST choose (a) whether or not they meant it as an
| insult , (b) whether or not to let it show on your face and
| (c) if you are going to call it out gently, call it out
| with a "Hey!", or turn into a pillar of rage in public
| (unwise, of course, but an option).
|
| But in that moment, when you feel that initial impulse of
| emotion, I assert (without evidence) that the emotion
| cannot be suppressed -- only your outward appearance can be
| modulated.
| patcon wrote:
| I think this is really thoughtful.
|
| In mindfulness practices, I've heard it mentioned as
| "noting without judgement". Maybe this is all just a
| matter of labels :)
| clankyclanker wrote:
| There's also the issue of internal versus external. I've
| always been off the mindset that you never have to
| apologize for your feelings, but you should comport
| yourself so that you never have to apologize for your
| actions toward yourself or others.
|
| Feelings are tricky to control even after you've noticed
| them, and maybe even after you've evaluated them.
| Therefore spending energy on them is not always
| judicious. However, every action is a choice, and letting
| your feelings drive you to doing something regrettable
| is, well, regrettable.
| agumonkey wrote:
| It's all wise but when you keep giving more than you receieve,
| you end up d[r]ying faster.
| kayodelycaon wrote:
| I made a couple of reads to try to parse out what was going on...
| and I just ended up confused. I think the following quote best
| shows the frame of reference I eventually came to.
|
| > Consider the conflict between the person whose sense of justice
| makes it impossible for her to give up on her anger, and the
| person whose sense of justice makes it impossible for her to
| become angry.
|
| There is a lot of discussion, but I don't really see the author
| come to any useful, supported conclusion. The ending comment
| about people being nicer to each other seemingly comes out of no
| where.
|
| I'm not sure what to make of it. Maybe I'm expecting an
| informative article when there isn't one, or I've grossly missed
| some stated point or necessary context.
| patcon wrote:
| Funny. I found this able to put words on something I've
| struggled with. I found it pretty profound in its observation
|
| In my reading: This author is acknowledging that they're "not
| nice" in small personal interactions, but is feeling others are
| "not nice" in large structural interactions with groups and
| systems. And they're lamenting that others commonly praise a
| "water under the bridge" thinking about small person-to-person
| things that this author struggles with, whereas the author's
| choice to view _larger_ forces that way is scolded as deserving
| more anger.
|
| Does that interpretation ring with you? (I'm not saying I agree
| with that interpretation btw, but it's a new thought for me.)
| kayodelycaon wrote:
| I definitely see that as one of many things the article talks
| about. There's a lot of ideas, but I don't see a narrative in
| it.
|
| > Does that interpretation ring with you?
|
| Not really. I have no frame of reference for understanding
| either group.
|
| I struggle with extreme emotions all the time, to the point
| where everyone considers them to be inappropriate. For the
| safety of everyone, I've learned to read and accept my
| emotions while also letting them go.
|
| I find their friend problem particularly irritating. All
| anger do is prompt me to logically double check my
| relationship with the person. Then I would determine if my
| anger is either justified. If it was justified, I would have
| to decide if I need to act on it or not.
|
| For most people, this is not a conscious process and they
| spend a lot of time rationalizing after the fact. If I'm
| going to act emotionally, I don't need to justify it.
|
| My therapist loves me... I'm not sure if that's good or bad.
| :)
| patcon wrote:
| I hear that. Thanks for reply. Very different from my
| experience, but glad to understand.
|
| > My therapist loves me... I'm not sure if that's good or
| bad.
|
| Yay for therapy :) Just had my first session today
| unwind wrote:
| Meta: typo in title, "Mangement" is missing an 'a'.
|
| Many thanks, kind and helpful mods.
| dang wrote:
| Whoa, missed that one. Thanks!
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