[HN Gopher] I volunteered to be infected with 50 parasitic worms...
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       I volunteered to be infected with 50 parasitic worms for a research
       study
        
       Author : zdw
       Score  : 141 points
       Date   : 2021-01-28 15:20 UTC (1 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (twitter.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (twitter.com)
        
       | GizmoSwan wrote:
       | Can they enter the brain?
        
         | ufo wrote:
         | These ones do not. You might be thinking about pork tapeworms.
        
       | pvaldes wrote:
       | Favourite parasites, Copepods...
       | 
       | Exquisite election, nothing like a Lernaeolophus to appreciate
       | our fine mammalian lifestyle. Nasty Necator, otherwise... yuck.
        
         | foobarian wrote:
         | Since you broached this path, do not google Dracunculiasis.
        
         | rwmj wrote:
         | Favourite parasite museum:
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meguro_Parasitological_Museum I
         | went a few years ago and it's amazing. I quite literally have
         | the T-shirt.
        
           | pvaldes wrote:
           | Yup, parasites are really cunning life forms and often very
           | neglected also by science. I used to be very interested by
           | them in the past.
        
       | bobsmooth wrote:
       | I glad there are people willing to participate because I wouldn't
       | be able to sleep knowing there's worms in me. Never mind the
       | itching.
        
         | dudeithinkBLM wrote:
         | I'm afraid you are likely loaded with worms, even without your
         | participation in this experiment.
        
           | [deleted]
        
           | bobsmooth wrote:
           | Don't do this to me.
        
         | mpfundstein wrote:
         | there is a not so low prob you have worms. even without itching
        
           | djrogers wrote:
           | If gp lives in a developed country and hasn't traveled
           | anywhere that hookworms are prevalent, then no - the
           | probability they have hookworms is _very_ low.
        
             | Robotbeat wrote:
             | _Hookworms_ , maybe, but pinworms are insanely common. Yes,
             | even in the developed world. Especially if you have kids...
        
           | high_density wrote:
           | ...what should I do?
           | 
           | I remember pooping a really long worm some years ago, and
           | taking a anti-worm medicine...
        
             | tartoran wrote:
             | Did it look flat? If so you had tapeworm. Look it up on
             | google
        
       | drenvuk wrote:
       | I am disgusted but curious. This is great.
        
       | BugsJustFindMe wrote:
       | So I keep reading reports about how hookworms are like a super
       | cure for autoimmune disorders from allergies to Crohn's disease.
       | Does anyone know why we can't just inject, ingest, or apply
       | whatever it is that they emit? Like...why is there not a
       | treatment for eczema yet better than steroid creams?
        
         | saprolino wrote:
         | From what I read on the internet, in order to have benefits a
         | human being would need to get infected with worms in childhood.
        
           | BugsJustFindMe wrote:
           | The adult in this article said his allergies went away.
        
             | treeman79 wrote:
             | Have an autoimmune condition. Medication works well but
             | side effects are brutal.
             | 
             | This is huge gross factor, but if it would give me a normal
             | life I could tolerate it.
        
             | at_a_remove wrote:
             | This is a bit old but ... https://web.archive.org/web/20060
             | 701163959/http://www.kuro5h... (2006, kuro5hin)
        
         | lsllc wrote:
         | Apparently you can buy "pig whipworm" (Trichuris suis) eggs and
         | ingest them. It seems they can't survive for long in your gut
         | (so there's no danger of an infestation), but it's long enough
         | to trigger whatever cure / autoimmune reset it is that you're
         | looking for.
         | 
         | This is just anecdotal (I know someone who did this and says
         | that it worked) -- but please do your own research and consult
         | a healthcare professional!!!
        
         | rincebrain wrote:
         | The three things that come to mind are
         | 
         | A) it's extremely time-consuming and difficult to capture the
         | mechanism for how organisms act in the middle of the human body
         | in the middle of their lifecycle when we're not even sure what
         | we're looking for, so it's just not been found yet.
         | 
         | B) it might just be safe and cost-effective enough to give
         | people worms temporarily as a treatment instead for now. (I
         | don't know if this is the case, but if they're doing it for a
         | study, the risk profile can't be that bad...)
         | 
         | C) even if we isolate whatever mechanism they have (and can
         | synthesize it readily), it's still an immune modulator, so all
         | the same caveats for steroid creams might apply at any
         | significant dose.
        
           | thaumasiotes wrote:
           | > even if we isolate whatever mechanism they have (and can
           | synthesize it readily), it's still an immune modulator, so
           | all the same caveats for steroid creams might apply at any
           | significant dose.
           | 
           | Sure, but it wouldn't be an infection you could spread to
           | other people. It also wouldn't be an infection that could
           | grow, of its own accord, to undesirable levels within you.
           | That's a huge improvement.
        
             | techdragon wrote:
             | I suspect any final form for a "live" treatment, would
             | probably be a two part sort of thing. "Take worms/eggs day
             | 1, day 2, 3 or 4 you take the anti worming drug to prevent
             | the worms getting much of a foothold"
        
               | at_a_remove wrote:
               | The pig whipworm eggs used previously for this purpose
               | can _hatch_ in the human body but they cannot survive, so
               | no foothold therapy is needed. Instead, they 're just
               | enough to attract the attention of a perhaps overly-
               | excitable immune system.
        
               | thaumasiotes wrote:
               | > The pig whipworm eggs used previously for this purpose
               | can _hatch_ in the human body but they cannot survive
               | 
               | If this became a routine treatment, it seems pretty
               | likely that they'd start being able to survive.
        
               | war1025 wrote:
               | That doesn't really follow.
               | 
               | For something to evolve like that you need to re-
               | introduce the mutated strains back to the source.
               | 
               | If there is no re-introduction (which there wouldn't be,
               | because the worms would be bred in an isolated
               | environment and not the sewer system), then there isn't
               | really anything to worry about. There is no selection
               | pressure at the point where breeding and distribution
               | occurs.
        
               | high_density wrote:
               | even if the 'gradually-evolving' process isn't provided,
               | isn't there some genetic chance? (be it really small --
               | like lottery?)
        
               | war1025 wrote:
               | The mutation would have to happen in the lab and not in
               | the wild, since the pills would come from the lab.
               | 
               | I imagine if such a thing did occur, they would just kill
               | the batch they were breeding and start over from a known
               | strain.
               | 
               | (Not a microbiologist, so who knows though)
        
               | thaumasiotes wrote:
               | Why would you need to reintroduce the mutated strains
               | back to the source? They already have a plan for
               | migrating from one host to another host; they don't need
               | to migrate from their host back to a lab so their
               | laboratory-bred eggs can be intentionally introduced into
               | another host.
        
               | war1025 wrote:
               | You might end up with strains that could survive in
               | humans, but those wouldn't be the strains being
               | prescribed to people.
        
         | jaggederest wrote:
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helminthic_therapy
         | 
         | Helminthic therapy is a real thing for people with severe
         | autoimmune issues. There are folks in the US right now walking
         | around with relatively mild hookworm infections and
         | substantially fewer autoimmune symptoms :)
        
           | josefresco wrote:
           | Thank you for this. I have an autoimmune disease and welcome
           | any and all alternative therapy options (to discuss with my
           | doctor).
        
             | chihuahua wrote:
             | There was an episode of NPR's "This American Life" podcast
             | in 2010 that included the story of someone who had terrible
             | allergy problems and ended up curing that via deliberate
             | hookworm introduction.
             | 
             | https://www.thisamericanlife.org/404/enemy-camp-2010/act-
             | thr...
        
         | refurb wrote:
         | Because scientists don't know exactly what the mechanism is
         | yet. But yes, they could potentially identify the mechanism and
         | skip the worms.
         | 
         | That said, Coronado Biosciences ran a pork hookworm clinical
         | trial in the treatment of inflammatory bowel syndrome and it
         | failed. More work needed.
        
       | ExcavateGrandMa wrote:
       | have a lombric :D
        
       | bserge wrote:
       | Interesting to me because I have experimented with various
       | medication to find something that would work for my mental and
       | physical problems. I think I've tried over 20 different drugs and
       | combinations of them.
       | 
       | Unlike Gwern, I still haven't shared any of it because I couldn't
       | get my grabby hands on any of the actually effective ones, not
       | even some more effective reuptake inhibitors (like, come on, I'm
       | not asking for much, shitty healthcare systems!).
       | 
       | Plus, I don't think anyone cares... but apparently some people do
       | huh.
        
       | stretchcat wrote:
       | Surely weird flexes don't get much weirder than this.
        
         | cjohnson318 wrote:
         | NO RAGERTS
        
       | new_guy wrote:
       | In Stargate, when a Goa'uld (worm) takes a host they replace the
       | immune system. Obviously fictional, but an interesting parallel.
        
       | todd8 wrote:
       | The inverse correlation between parasitic infections and
       | autoimmune disease is interesting and is explored in _Parasitic
       | worms and inflammatory diseases_ , P. Zaccone et. al. [1].
       | 
       | In parts of the world, for example USA, Canada, Australia,
       | Europe, other locations, serious parasitic infection are now not
       | common. The immune system, which co-evolved with parasites over
       | millions of years appears to turn on our own bodies because of
       | the lack of parasites to attack. This hypothesis (the _hygiene
       | hypothesis_ ) is investigated in the cited paper.
       | 
       | I referred to serious parasitic infections above because
       | virtually everyone host some benign parasites such as the Demodex
       | mite, a microscopic mite that lives on our eye lashes. See [2].
       | 
       | Finally, let me recommend _Parasite Rex..._ by Carl Zimmer. [3]
       | 
       | [1] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1618732/
       | 
       | [2] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3884930/
       | 
       | [3] https://www.amazon.com/Parasite-Rex-Bizarre-Dangerous-
       | Creatu...
        
         | bserge wrote:
         | Huh, never heard of it, but it sounds interesting. So it's like
         | the immune system has so little work these days that it turns
         | on its own body.
         | 
         | By that hypothesis, willingly introducing some (preferably
         | benign) parasite or infection would keep it busy so it doesn't
         | attack itself?
         | 
         | Just thinking out in text here, I'm tired heh
        
           | nefitty wrote:
           | It does sound absurd, but I'm fully expecting someone to try
           | this out "in the name of health and productivity."
           | 
           | Edit: Oh, it's already happening:
           | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25961202
        
             | bserge wrote:
             | I would definitely try it if I had an autoimmune disease...
             | 
             | Just imo, there's nothing wrong with experimenting on
             | yourself, as long as you take the responsibility and accept
             | the risk and possible consequences.
             | 
             | Hacking is not only for electromechanical things :)
        
               | mordechai9000 wrote:
               | This guy infected himself with hookworms, because his
               | allergies were so bad he was desperate. He subsequently
               | started promoting the idea, and I think was even trying
               | to distribute hookworms for awhile.
               | 
               | https://www.amazon.com/Epidemic-Absence-Understanding-
               | Allerg...
               | 
               | Edit: I read a more recent article about the guy, and it
               | said he subsequently backed off the idea after his
               | allergies came back.
        
               | InitialLastName wrote:
               | Don't forget about waiving your right to access any
               | social safety net (disability, unemployment,
               | medicaid/medicare costs) that might become necessary as a
               | result of your experiments.
        
         | stevenjohns wrote:
         | Entirely anecdotal, I believe the immune system is already
         | working at high capacity to stop you from becoming sick from
         | the dozens of fungi, bacteria and viruses you come across on a
         | daily basis.
         | 
         | The biggest metric I have for this is that when I am genuinely
         | sick - with a cold or fever - it seems my body stops keeping
         | things like HPV at bay and I start to see remnants of things
         | like warts I haven't seen for years start to pop up again - and
         | of course disappear again along with the fever.
        
       | mattalex wrote:
       | The best answer to give when a coworker asks you what you did
       | over the weekend
        
       | psychlops wrote:
       | Eww.
        
       | ufo wrote:
       | Hookworms are a serious health problem in many parts of the
       | developing world. If they manage to create a working vaccine it
       | might be a game changer!
        
       | drtillberg wrote:
       | Strange the study might have used a placebo group of people
       | infected with parasites. I guess they needed to test if their
       | process actually was effective in generating hookworm infections?
        
         | blendergeek wrote:
         | They were testing a vaccine to prevent hookworm infection. [0]
         | After giving the experimental vaccine, they intentionally
         | inoculated the research subjects with hookworms to measure
         | whether the vaccine prevented hookworm infection.
         | 
         | [0] https://twitter.com/JimmyBernot/status/1354443850153144321
        
           | rkagerer wrote:
           | Is inoculate the right word in this context?
        
       | jml7c5 wrote:
       | Thread Reader version:
       | https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1354443833388503043.html
        
       | pmarreck wrote:
       | Weird diet flex but OK
        
       | ttraub wrote:
       | There are numerous accounts on the internet of medical tourists
       | trekking to Southeast Asia or Mexico to acquire helminths or
       | similar parasitical organisms reputed to calm down the body's
       | immune response. Specifically, sufferers of Crohn's Disease have
       | reported relief from symptoms after taking in (via a cut in the
       | skin, or walking barefoot in feces, or drinking contaminated
       | water) a few helminths.[1]
       | 
       | Too many helminths seems to have deleterious effects, however, so
       | there seems to be a balance that must be struck.
       | 
       | There is evidence that these worms affect the microbial mixture
       | in the gut.[2]
       | 
       | Generally speaking, modern humans live in sterile conditions
       | whereas we have ferocious immune systems which evolved to handle
       | filthy conditions. The theory is, given too little work to do,
       | some people's immune systems start to attack the self.
       | 
       | Anecdotally, I have an incredibly healthy daughter; we never
       | hesitated to expose her to as many strangers as possible. "Would
       | you like to hold our baby?" She also got mother's milk for
       | several years (advantage of being an only child). Almost never
       | gets sick and when she does, it's for less than 24 hours.
       | Hopefully it stays that way :)
       | 
       | 1. https://www.healthline.com/health/crohns-disease/hook-
       | worms#...
       | 
       | 2. https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2016/04/parasitic-worms-
       | may-...
        
         | lostlogin wrote:
         | > modern humans live in sterile conditions whereas we have
         | ferocious immune systems which evolved to handle filthy
         | conditions.
         | 
         | Day care centres are what their immune system is designed to
         | fight. I'm not sure how old your daughter is, but I have never
         | been sicker than the few years my child attended one. I work in
         | a hospital and my wife is a teacher, so it's not like we
         | weren't exposed to bugs.
         | 
         | No matter how clean the child care centre, kids are a Petrie
         | dish of horrible diseases.
        
         | jxramos wrote:
         | The thing I don't get is how does the immune system simply not
         | "atrophy" like any other system in the body that doesn't get
         | used?
        
           | eurasiantiger wrote:
           | The modern western inland diet contains a lot of wheat and
           | other grains which have more omega-6 than omega-3
           | polyunsaturated fatty acids. PUFAs are used in the synthesis
           | of immune factors (interleukins, cytokines, ...) and this
           | imbalance in the omega-3:omega-6 ratio causes more aggressive
           | versions of those immune factors to be produced.
           | 
           | Then there's sugar, processed food, work stress, particle
           | emissions, microbes in indoor air... there are plenty of
           | reasons for our immune system to attack itself.
        
           | ttraub wrote:
           | As I understand it, our immune systems are pretty busy even
           | under today's sanitary conditions. We're constantly fighting
           | off bacterial and viral invaders, 24x7. But, I guess we're
           | just not as busy as we could be.
        
       | tolstoshev wrote:
       | I've tried it for celiac, but it didn't work for me. There's a
       | whole underground economy of shipping people hookworms. They
       | claim that about 80% of people with some form of auto-immune
       | disease get benefit. I'm glad to see that there's more research
       | being done in this area.
        
         | bserge wrote:
         | Thanks for the input! Sad to hear it didn't work, but I'm glad
         | other people are trying stuff on their own.
        
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