[HN Gopher] Nuon, a gaming chip that nearly changed the world, b...
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       Nuon, a gaming chip that nearly changed the world, but didn't
       (2015)
        
       Author : pjmlp
       Score  : 37 points
       Date   : 2021-01-26 11:56 UTC (1 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (arstechnica.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (arstechnica.com)
        
       | lizknope wrote:
       | I had the Toshiba DVD player with Nuon. It also supported HDCD
       | music. They were regular CDs that could be played in any CD
       | player but in an HDCD device there and it supposedly sounded
       | better. I never had any Nuon content but I did have a single HDCD
       | disc and an extra light would show up when I played that.
       | 
       | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_Definition_Compatible_Dig...
        
         | JohnBooty wrote:
         | "High-definition" audio for consumers is essentially a scam.
         | The original 44.1khz/16bit redbook CD audio standard already
         | exceeds the limits of human hearing.
         | 
         | https://web.archive.org/web/20190606054038/https://people.xi...
         | 
         | (For professional use, having more resolution/depth is useful,
         | because you may be performing lossy operations, etc)
        
           | Blueskytech wrote:
           | While the gist of your argument is technically correct you
           | are missing one important factor, amplification wether
           | through solid state transistor or analog tubes, causes
           | distortion. With 44.1 kHz all sine waves above 22 kHz cannot
           | be reproduced which makes for some pretty unpleasant
           | distortion harmonics if those wave forms are being fed
           | through the wire without a filter on the output signal.
        
       | lostgame wrote:
       | It runs DOOM.
       | 
       | https://www.nuon-dome.com/doom.html
        
       | rbanffy wrote:
       | From the Wikipedia article, it looks like a pretty interesting
       | architecture.
        
         | tcgv wrote:
         | For reference:
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuon_(DVD_technology)
        
       | vslira wrote:
       | > The Japanese manufacturers were not comfortable with firmware
       | updates. "They didn't want the computer experience to be
       | transferred to consumer electronics," Ram said. And that extended
       | not just to updates but also to error handling--"If something
       | goes wrong there's got to be a way to flash the firmware quickly
       | and restore it to the last best-known state"--and startup times.
       | Toshiba expected things to just work.
       | 
       | Love the spirit
        
         | moftz wrote:
         | Prior to the sixth-gen consoles, there were no firmware
         | updates. What made it out the door was it. I don't know if the
         | PS2 or Dreamcast ever received software updates but the
         | original Xbox included updates with newer games. Seventh-gen
         | received online updates constantly. Toshiba was clearly just
         | looking at what had come previously and didn't want to buck the
         | trend.
        
       | aidenn0 wrote:
       | I think the Nuon did change the world, inasmuch as it influenced
       | the PS2 to have a DVD player; I assume Katsuragi had to burn some
       | serious social capital to push that through...
        
       | moftz wrote:
       | The PS2 was basically the inverse of the plan for Nuon. The PS2
       | was a gaming device first and a DVD player second. Adding the DVD
       | playback feature really got it into many of homes as the first
       | DVD player for the household. If someone was just looking for a
       | DVD player, why would they opt for the more expensive Nuon-
       | enabled device than the cheaper DVD-only device? The only people
       | that would have bought a Nuon-enabled DVD player would have been
       | first adopters looking to actually buy a Nuon. Perhaps Nuon would
       | have had more success selling a console that happened to play
       | DVDs rather than a DVD player that happened to play games. Sony
       | repeated the same strategy for the PS3 as a console that played
       | Blu-rays and had immediate success with that too.
       | 
       | It's like trying to sell a commuter car with a souped up engine
       | next to the cheaper commuter cars. Someone buying a commuter car
       | just wants 4 wheels and an engine at a low cost. Sony sold
       | affordable sports cars that just so happened to be capable of
       | commuting.
        
         | tehwebguy wrote:
         | > first DVD player for the household
         | 
         | True for me, I bet PS2s and PS3s are now the _last_ DVD players
         | in a lot of households too!
        
           | pixelbath wrote:
           | I bought a PS2 because I didn't have a DVD player and wanted
           | a PS2 anyway, so it was a slam dunk. I never bought a
           | dedicated DVD player because I always had a PS2 or PC that
           | could play it. It was the same with PS3 and my Blu-Ray laptop
           | as well.
        
             | lostgame wrote:
             | I often blame the Dreamcast's lack of DVD support as its
             | ultimate reason SEGA failed in the hardware console with an
             | otherwise unbelievably innovative piece of hardware and
             | incredibly strong software.
             | 
             | Even a DC pro priced at $100 more or whatever might have
             | done the trick to have SEGA in the door first.
        
       | freeone3000 wrote:
       | This is a video of a complete playthrough of every game released
       | for the Nuon, with commentary: https://youtu.be/lfqiwg-wQB8
       | 
       | There is a reason they did not sell.
        
       | kkaranth wrote:
       | I had one of these! It came along with a fun little game called
       | Merlin Racing, a sort of proto-Mario Kart
        
         | dfxm12 wrote:
         | Super Mario Kart came out in 1992, predating Merlin Racing by
         | 7-8 years...
        
       | bsenftner wrote:
       | I remember these people from my time in the game industry. They
       | were very, very bright.
        
         | JohnBooty wrote:
         | If only they could have gotten this to market a couple of years
         | earlier! Sounds like the tech itself was ready. It would have
         | had something like class-leading performance.
        
           | bsder wrote:
           | It did. It was called 3DO. They failed, too. They were too
           | early and so were too expensive because of the CD.
           | 
           | The PS2 got the price and performance timing _exactly_ right
           | --and they are tied together.
           | 
           | The Crash Bandicoot writeup talks about how they had to work
           | around the graphics (triangle limits) and hardware (cycling
           | the CD a lot more than expected) limits of the device.
           | 
           | That meant that the PS2 had juuust enough horsepower to do
           | interesting things but still be affordable. That was a
           | difficult needle to thread back then.
        
           | twoodfin wrote:
           | It sounds like the marketing was all wrong. They wanted to
           | sell it as a premium feature for DVD players, but consumers
           | shopping for a DVD player weren't interested in a pricey
           | upsell to play a tiny number of games and whatever other
           | features they bundled.
           | 
           | What they should have done was position it as a premium games
           | machine that included a "free" DVD player. Sony had massive
           | success with this approach for the PlayStation 2, which I
           | would guess was the first DVD player that most of its
           | purchasers had owned.
        
             | dfxm12 wrote:
             | _consumers shopping for a DVD player weren 't interested in
             | a pricey upsell to play a tiny number of games_
             | 
             | Yeah, people found this out in 1993 via the Pioneer
             | LaserActive [0].
             | 
             | Nuon's angle was a little different though. They were
             | trying to _triple_ dip with licensing - license to the
             | companies who make DVD players, the devs who make
             | videogames as well as to movie studios for the DVD
             | interactive features. That way, maybe they solve the
             | problem of having to sell their own hardware at a loss to
             | make it up in game sales (as most console makers do).
             | Nintendo had done something like this in the past,
             | licensing out their hardware to Sharp, who made the Twin
             | Famicom and a TV with an NES built-in and would do it
             | around the same time with the Panasonic Q GameCube.
             | 
             | It looks like they did the work in terms of getting in good
             | with the hardware side, but the software side left a lot to
             | be desired. As close as they were working with Toshiba,
             | they should've also been working with EA...
             | 
             | 0 - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LaserActive
        
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       (page generated 2021-01-27 23:02 UTC)