[HN Gopher] The Teeniest Tiniest Laptop in the West
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       The Teeniest Tiniest Laptop in the West
        
       Author : elorant
       Score  : 84 points
       Date   : 2021-01-26 15:51 UTC (7 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (thecrow.uk)
 (TXT) w3m dump (thecrow.uk)
        
       | mark_l_watson wrote:
       | I want one, but I just bought a M1 MacBook Pro.
       | 
       | I wonder how Linux runs on the P2 Max? Amazing that it only
       | weighs 1 pound.
        
         | dddavid wrote:
         | It runs Linux beautifully. Absolutely the nicest portable Linux
         | machine I've ever owned
        
           | mark_l_watson wrote:
           | Thanks!
        
       | adembudak wrote:
       | Carrying those things on your back pocket is cool and all...
       | until you sit. I had broken 2 ebook reader in this way.
        
       | nivenkos wrote:
       | I loved the Acer Aspire One. It was perfect for programming on
       | the train.
        
         | neartheplain wrote:
         | Loved my Aspire One as well. It was my only computer for a
         | semester in university. Played YouTube without a hitch, ran old
         | 3D games smoothly, and compiled my CompSci assignments just
         | fine.
        
       | unknown2374 wrote:
       | I started reading the "Performance" section, and after reading
       | that he is writing this on Atom, I didn't need to read any
       | further.
       | 
       | If it can run atom, it can pretty much anything.
        
       | hartator wrote:
       | > NB: This page cotains a single Amazon affiliate link. Clicking
       | on it may financially benefit the author
       | 
       | Clicked on his Amazon link just for that.
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | GekkePrutser wrote:
       | Nice review but I'd like to hear more about how this thing is to
       | actually use. How does the keyboard fare etc.. The specs are nice
       | and how it performs is decent but the real tradeoffs here aren't
       | in the specs.
       | 
       | Though I suppose most people buying these will dock it most of
       | the time.
       | 
       | I think personally I'd prefer an ultralight 11" with an excellent
       | keyboard. Like a Thinkpad X270 but much thinner and lighter.
       | Below that the keyboard starts getting smallish.
        
         | ungruntled wrote:
         | I have GPD P2 Max, the keyboard is ok for typing letters, but
         | punctuation requires special key combos, and symbols used in
         | programming like brackets underscores, commas, plus, equals,
         | etc also have unusual key combos. I've been unable to use it
         | for any meaningful programming work.
         | 
         | The fan is also loud even on quiet mode settings. You need to
         | underclock it to reduce fan speed to what my opinion is
         | comfortable for working in a quiet room.
        
       | Toutouxc wrote:
       | Reminds me of the time I put Arch on an Asus netbook and then
       | didn't have any use for that, because it was too small and had an
       | anemic Atom CPU.
       | 
       | Currently my performance and portability needs converge on a M1
       | MacBook Air, but I kinda wish i was doing on site support for
       | embedded stuff or something, so I could just run around a
       | building and be able to whip this bad boy out with an 80s-movie
       | sound effect.
        
       | hexo wrote:
       | "The screen itself is a work of wonder. At 8.9 inches, it can
       | support resolutions of up to 2560 x 1600 px. That's insane. No-
       | one on Earth has eyesight good enough to comfortably read text
       | that small for an extended period. Yes, it's just about do-able,
       | and the text itself is perfectly formed, but eyestrain will
       | quickly become an issue. After spending an evening at 1920 x 180,
       | I eventually set it to an easy 1440 x 900 px."
       | 
       | Well, why using non-native resolution and cripple your
       | experience? I'd say it's better to use scaling or just change
       | font size. And one remark, it would be awesome if OS and GUI
       | toolkit manufacturers started to correctly support DPI already,
       | none of my screens is 96 DPI.
        
         | chrismorgan wrote:
         | [?](25602 + 16002) / 8.9, that's 339dpi, waaaaay too much for
         | 1x use.
         | 
         | 1920x1200 is 1.33x, 254ppi, still waaay too fine.
         | 
         | 1440x900 is 1.78x, 191ppi, still way too fine.
         | 
         | I'd think 1280x800, 2x, 170ppi, is probably about right for a
         | laptop like this, though it's still likely to be a bit on the
         | too-fine scale so that I'd give 1024x640, 2.5x, 136ppi, a try
         | also.
         | 
         | I think I did a bit of fractional scaling on Linux a few years
         | back and it went fine, but I'm not quite sure--my memory's
         | fuzzy on the point, I might have just tweaked the dpi that I
         | told X.org (to reflect reality) and not adjusted anything else.
         | But certainly Windows handles all scaling, including
         | fractional, pretty much perfectly.
        
         | whelming_wave wrote:
         | Issues with Linux graphical toolkits, perhaps? I hear they're
         | reasonably consistent with all screens at the same integer
         | scaling ratio but have issues with other setups. Admittedly, I
         | haven't looked into this myself in years.
        
           | GekkePrutser wrote:
           | KDE scales pretty well for me! Even non integer.
        
       | fsiefken wrote:
       | So what is the tiniest Intel based device that can be connected
       | to an eGPU through Thunderbolt casing with an Nvidia 307 so I can
       | SteamVR?
        
         | easton wrote:
         | The GPD Win can connect to an eGPU over Thunderbolt. It's about
         | the same size as the one in the article.
         | 
         | https://www.reddit.com/r/gpdwin/comments/ith6wk/vr_using_an_...
        
       | cjdell wrote:
       | Ahhh the Psion 3a. My dad had one of these and used it everyday
       | for 20 years. Ran for weeks on 2 AA batteries and took it with
       | him everywhere (smaller than a wallet).
       | 
       | I learned to code in OPL on the Psion 3 which he passed down to
       | me after he got the 3a. Ah memories. Does a modern equivalent
       | exist?
        
         | cnlevy wrote:
         | I had the Psion Revo+, 16Mb RAM, and went from programming in
         | OPL to Java 1.1, using the eshell.exe to run javac.
         | 
         | http://cd.textfiles.com/psion/disk2/PRO_0006/JAVA/COM_0002.H...
        
         | fmajid wrote:
         | https://www.www3.planetcom.co.uk/devices
        
           | cjdell wrote:
           | Would love to see a device like the Gemini with a specially
           | designed OS rather than a tweaked Android or Linux UI. Still
           | cool though.
        
             | moistbar wrote:
             | I think having a known system running a custom UI is the
             | way to go, personally. You get the benefits of years of
             | engineering research while still getting to have a
             | differentiating factor that users can see.
        
       | oxw wrote:
       | archive.org mirror
       | 
       | https://web.archive.org/web/20210126173020/https://thecrow.u...
        
       | causality0 wrote:
       | The thing I don't understand about the P2 Max and every other
       | micro laptop currently on the market is why they shun the
       | trackpoint. Now, at least the P2 Max comes with a touchpad.
       | Others like the Mix A1 rely on an optical touchpoint, which is
       | the worst pointing device ever conceived by the human mind. A
       | boiled egg mounted into a trackball mouse would be more pleasant
       | to use than an optical touchpoint.
        
         | buran77 wrote:
         | The trackpoint most likely adds more to the thickness of the
         | keyboard assembly than a touchpad. So in that neverending quest
         | for the razorblade laptop thickness is shaved all around.
         | 
         | They're also an extra expense very few people care about. Most
         | people who grew up with a touchpad hate the trackpoint
         | experience and wouldn't use it for free, let alone pay for it
         | or have it as only option. I own IBM and more recently Lenovo
         | laptops because they still come with that red nub and I
         | instinctively use it but I can understand why manufacturers
         | don't bother including one given how little the market cares
         | for them.
         | 
         | But the laptop still needs the space there in order to have a
         | decent form factor. If anything it would need _more_ space
         | under the keyboard to have an even better 4:3 aspect ratio.
        
           | fencepost wrote:
           | I used trackpoints for years on Toshiba and Lenovo laptops,
           | but had moved away from them until I recently replaced one
           | with a cup-style cap. Holy smokes what a difference. Now on
           | that laptop I find myself jumping from the touchpad to the
           | trackpoint.
           | 
           | So, if you're not so thrilled with pointing sticks as you
           | once were, try a few different styles. Maybe you just have
           | bad caps.
        
         | lqet wrote:
         | This is the main reason why I will stick to my modded Thinkpad
         | X61 [0]. Small, classic trackpoint, no touchpad.
         | 
         | [0] https://geoff.greer.fm/2017/07/16/thinkpad-x62/
        
           | mizzack wrote:
           | I dusted off my X61 this past week. Repasted, threw a cheap
           | SSD in, and newer mPCIE Wifi card. After playing around with
           | undervolting and fan control it idles silently. Battery life
           | on the 6 cell is 5-6 hours light use.
           | 
           | It was a pretty amazing package for that sort of power in
           | 2007, and it's still a joy to use -- especially with modern
           | improvements.
           | 
           | Now if I could just find a nice SXGA+ screen...
        
             | lqet wrote:
             | > Now if I could just find a nice SXGA+ screen...
             | 
             | Took me a few months to find one on eBay, a replacement
             | part of a X61s. _Fitting_ this thing into the X61 was...
             | interesting. It involved a few hours of Dremeling. I am
             | convinced it was poor luck I didn 't break it.
        
       | maliker wrote:
       | I think we're only a couple years away from having highly
       | productive computers with us all the time, but I think it's going
       | to come through head mounted displays. There's been positive
       | reports on the nreal[1] glasses user experience, and
       | immersedvr[2] seems to have made a lot of progress in working in
       | VR (on an oculus quest).
       | 
       | The usable screen sizes in these head mounted interfaces can
       | already beat laptops, and I suspect someone will be able to solve
       | the input problem with a new portable keyboard/mouse.
       | 
       | Cyberspace here we come!
       | 
       | [1] https://www.androidauthority.com/nreal-light-mixed-
       | reality-g... [2] https://blog.immersed.team/working-in-vr-8-hrs-
       | day-e8308b679...
        
       | PAPPPmAc wrote:
       | I love the idea of the "pocket workstation," and I've never been
       | as happy with a mobile device as I was with my n810, which was
       | sort of the missing link between the UMPC and Smartphone (ran
       | Linux with some mobile affordances, slider keyboard that was
       | comfortable for thumb typing), and I want to have that again...
       | but every time I look I don't think these mini laptops quite make
       | it in to the niche.
       | 
       | I have my little 12" carryin' around laptop that has a decent
       | keyboard for touch-typing and an OS that does what I ask of it,
       | but I need to have a bag to carry and a surface or seat to use,
       | and my smartphone that fits in a pocket and I can use on the go,
       | but whose human I/O and coercive environment make me rage most of
       | the time I try to do anything nontrivial on it. These mini-
       | laptops are a little too big to pocket comfortably, and a little
       | too small to operate comfortably.
       | 
       | ... The Gibsonian cyberdeck of the Sprawl books had HMDs and
       | gloves or straight up neural interfaces because it was obvious by
       | the mid 90s that the problem was the human interface.
       | 
       | I want to see some innovation on that front. HMDs (both immersive
       | and non-intrusive) that are comfortable for text. Software that
       | works with e-ink displays (or even just wide-spread support for
       | pgup/pgdn events to paginate and scroll without a bunch of
       | unnecessary refreshes - lookin' at you Android). Key-gloves or
       | Chorders you can use clipped to a pants pocket or wrapped around
       | the back/edges of a handheld device. Hell, just going back to
       | decent thumb-able keyboards integrated so you can hold and use
       | them. These aren't new ideas, just once that need to be refined
       | into something serviceable.
       | 
       | Get away from the fondleslab appliance that uses half of its
       | expensive, power-hungry touchscreen to present an awkward gimped
       | keyboard that only works as well as its prediction estimates and
       | re-flows your content as it pops in and out paradigm, and improve
       | on the "srs bsns computer" for the era of miniaturization.
        
       | m34 wrote:
       | "Don't have a proper use case for an ultra portable rn but having
       | a large fresnel lens sheet fixture in front of it would really
       | make for an awesome coffee shop coding experience." - S. Lowry
        
       | fmajid wrote:
       | I had one, running Linux. Gave it away to the OpenBSD project.
       | The screen is just too small to be useful. The 12" MacBook, while
       | equally anemic, is far more usable. Hopefully they make future M1
       | MacBooks that are lighter, the M1 MacBook Air is significantly
       | heavier than the 12" MacBook.
       | 
       | I also have a Planet Gemini, the spiritual successor to the Psion
       | 5, that I still have but to be frank almost never use. That would
       | be a much better candidate for tiniest laptop in the West (it
       | ships with Android but you can install Linux).
       | 
       | I've had a bunch of other similar ultra-compact computers with
       | keyboards, from the Cambridge Z88 to the HP95LX and 200LX, Sony
       | Clie UX50 and Nokia E62 and N800. The reality never matches the
       | dream.
        
         | samatman wrote:
         | My fantasy is bringing back the 11" MacBook Air, which was just
         | a better computer than the 12" MacBook. The latter gave us the
         | damnable butterfly keyboard, so that might just be resentment
         | on my part.
        
         | trizic wrote:
         | Completely agree. The fantasy/dream is productivity on the go.
         | But in reality we are productive full size keyboard. Not that
         | you can never become productive on one of these devices but it
         | will take a certain amount of time and one should consider the
         | availability/discontinuation of these devices since they are so
         | niche.
         | 
         | That being said, I am still going to order a PinePhone with the
         | hope that the Psion-like keyboard will make me productive :D
        
       | megablast wrote:
       | The psion organiser would last for months on its tiny batteries.
        
       | MarkusWandel wrote:
       | That form factor running clean, stock Android with cellular
       | connection, phone calls and all.
       | 
       | Graphic linux running alongside with simple hotkey screen switch.
       | Linux doesn't have to be integrated with Android at all other
       | than being provided cellular data and access to the I/O devices.
       | 
       | That way you get the best of both worlds. Android apps, but with
       | a real keyboard for all that text input. And push a button and
       | you have an always on, always interconnected pocket Linux
       | machine. This respects that 99% of the use would be as a bulky
       | smartphone, but when it comes to that 1% - which for me mostly
       | translates to ssh-ing somewhere, be it via Termux or Connectbot -
       | that keyboard sure would be handy.
        
       | zoomablemind wrote:
       | Nokia E7 (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nokia_E7-00), was a
       | rather short-lived phone/mini-computer. It had a reasonable
       | qwerty keyboard, touch-screen, even HDMI output.
       | 
       | If only it could run Linux and had a better battery, it would be
       | a nice terminal in a pocket. Even under SymbianOS it could run
       | SSH term in an app, enough for quick checks and fixes.
        
       | bberenberg wrote:
       | This is exactly the kind of thing where I've grown up enough to
       | know that I love the idea of it, but I should never own it. Glad
       | to see someone else enjoying it so much.
        
         | krupan wrote:
         | Well said! I remember excitedly buying the OLPC laptop and
         | trying so hard to find ways to make it useful. Same with the
         | first Raspberry pi. This gives me similar vibes.
        
           | daniellarusso wrote:
           | I am an admitted SBC addict.
        
             | ghostbrainalpha wrote:
             | What does SBC mean?
        
               | kirill5pol wrote:
               | Single-board computer, basically Raspberry Pi like
               | devices.
        
               | guenthert wrote:
               | Yeah, no idea how that term became so widespread. Every
               | laptop, home computer and all-in-one computer and many
               | PCs use exactly a single PCB. I've seen the more
               | descriptive term "open frame computer" used by a local
               | dealer. That might just be legalese though to get them
               | out of any FCC responsibilities.
        
       | Topgamer7 wrote:
       | While I love the idea of an ultra portable performant laptop. I
       | can't use anything other than an ergonomic keyboard for more than
       | a few hours before my wrists start to kill.
       | 
       | I'd love someone to release a 14"-15" ultrathin with an ergonomic
       | keyboard!
        
       | krapp wrote:
       | This led me to dust off my old EEE-PC 701 that's currently
       | running Puppy Linux, and get annoyed again at how Asus destroyed
       | the screenspace by adding those two stupid speakers around the
       | monitor and put it back in its drawer with the rest of the
       | computers I no longer use.
       | 
       | It worked perfectly with Fluxbox, though. I miss Fluxbox, haven't
       | found a suitable replacement yet.
       | 
       | But I mean our phones are already more cyberpunk than
       | Neuromancer's decks in all but aesthetics.
        
         | krylon wrote:
         | > But I mean our phones are already more cyberpunk than
         | Neuromancer's decks in all but aesthetics.
         | 
         | They still don't have the neural interface. Although, all
         | things considered, that might be a feature. I would _really_
         | hate for some piece of ransomware to scramble my childhood
         | memories...
        
         | mcbuilder wrote:
         | I remember my old EEE-PC 701: it got me into Linux, taught me
         | about thin clients, and I've never really looked back. When I
         | moved to the UK to start graduate school I purchased a huge 17
         | inch Dell Inspiron. After being dumb enough to loose my bus
         | pass in under a month, I started walking the hour to campus
         | everyday. Pretty soon that beast of a laptop seemed like a
         | pretty bad idea, so I sold it for the EEE-PC and an early e-ink
         | device, the iRex iLliad.
         | 
         | When I learned you could just ssh into beefy servers and use
         | those for compute, it basically taught me CLI as well as remote
         | editing. Pretty soon I was distro-hopping on the EEE until I
         | found Arch Linux and then I settled on that. I eventually
         | upgraded to a X31 ThinkPad when I grew tired of the microscopic
         | screen, but without the EEE forcing me to think about a
         | different way to do things I doubt I would have picked up many
         | of my current skills. I even went so far as to install Linux on
         | my Game Boy Advance and used that to check websites and emails
         | on a backpacking trip across Europe.
        
       | soneil wrote:
       | I had a GPD MicroPC. I fell in love with the idea of having
       | something with a real serial port I can sling in my bag. Terrible
       | "typing" experience (you type with two thumbs), but it did what
       | it claimed, for a while.
       | 
       | 9 months later, my battery life was down to less than 1 second on
       | battery. Not impressed.
        
         | qchris wrote:
         | Is the battery user-replaceable on one of those? I'd taken a
         | look, as I sometimes work with serial devices in weird places,
         | but if the battery is a little suspect and I might run it down,
         | it's probably harder to justify the price if I can't swap the
         | battery out eventually.
        
           | soneil wrote:
           | It is replaceable, just one of those silver foil + gold tape
           | packages you see everywhere - but with a funky connector. It
           | seems readily available, I'm just hesitant to throw good
           | money after bad.
        
             | qchris wrote:
             | Okay, good to know! I could probably figure out the
             | connector myself, but if it was some kind of space-saving
             | soldered connection, etc. I don't think that would
             | particularly fun to mess around with.
        
           | numpad0 wrote:
           | Replaceable in the same sense as iPhone batteries are user
           | serviceable, yes, and apparently battery over-discharging is
           | a known issue as well from a quick Google search.
        
       | Abishek_Muthian wrote:
       | I would really like more competition for GPD2 and One
       | Mix[1](another HK company) from traditional laptop makers. But I
       | understand their reasoning for not doing that, I think they're
       | hesitant to compete in small display market where smartphones
       | rule; but that's exactly why I want a pocket computer from
       | reputed brand - _to ditch my smartphone_.
       | 
       | While we wait for Linux smartphones to get better, a pocketable
       | Linux computer as showcased in OT could fill-in the need gap. Use
       | a data dongle for Internet/Calls on-demand on the move and have
       | full-fledged computer at hand.
       | 
       | I've been telling this for years now, RPi CM4 gives me some hope.
       | Looks like Lenovo-NEC might enter this market at least in Japan
       | and I hope nerds in Japan buy it out and make pocket computers a
       | thing again for rest of the world too.
       | 
       | [1]https://1netbook.com/onemix/
       | 
       | [2]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KjkpqOn6EJ4
        
         | ryukafalz wrote:
         | I'm holding out for an equivalent of the One Mix Yoga with LTE
         | support. The combination of small convertible tablet, keyboard
         | (albeit a small one), USB-C for docking when at home, and
         | mobile data/calls sounds pretty ideal.
         | 
         | The Lavie Mini looks pretty great too, haven't seen any signs
         | that it'll have LTE though.
        
       | PointyFluff wrote:
       | TL;DR
       | 
       | This is an add for an affiliate link to amazon for the GPD2
        
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       (page generated 2021-01-26 23:01 UTC)