[HN Gopher] Firefox 85
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Firefox 85
        
       Author : amake
       Score  : 467 points
       Date   : 2021-01-26 14:10 UTC (8 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.mozilla.org)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.mozilla.org)
        
       | silicon2401 wrote:
       | My biggest gripe with firefox is how it tries to hold your
       | session hostage to force you to update. This is absolutely a no-
       | go in a professional context, in my opinion. One of the first
       | things I do when setting up firefox on a personal machine is
       | disable this forced update so I can actually control my computer
       | and its applications, not have them control me.
        
         | ceejayoz wrote:
         | Can you elaborate? I've never been forced to update mid-
         | session.
        
           | psychoslave wrote:
           | When Firefox autoupdate, it won't let you open a new tab to
           | browse elsewhere. You have to relaunch the application to
           | find back a normal use case.
           | 
           | Power users _can_ disable it. For the less advanced users,
           | impose that as default behavior as its pros and cons.
        
             | 0xffff2 wrote:
             | >When Firefox autoupdate, it won't let you open a new tab
             | to browse elsewhere.
             | 
             | There must be some additional context here. I've never
             | observed this behavior on Windows or on Linux (although on
             | Linux I'm using an LTS release, which could be a
             | confounding factor).
        
               | psychoslave wrote:
               | I use both systems. I can't remember on which system I
               | saw it happen. Personally I'm fine with relaunching
               | immediately the browser. I just replied to give the
               | information asked, but it seemed that somehow it made
               | some people upset. I really don't understand how and why,
               | tough.
        
               | silicon2401 wrote:
               | I find it irritating because one of the core principles
               | of this kind of technology, to me, is that it should
               | serve the user, not the other way around. I expect to be
               | able to run the earliest version of windows 10 and go out
               | to all sorts of virus-laden websites if I decide to. It's
               | one thing to automatically download updates and let the
               | user apply them when ready, but to actually disable the
               | browser until the user complies is just unacceptable for
               | me. Hence why I disable it.
               | 
               | I do applaud firefox for supporting so much
               | customization, as in this case. If I weren't able to
               | disable this behavior I would have stopped using firefox
               | immediately.
        
               | franga2000 wrote:
               | Yeah, this is the exact kind of behavior that made me
               | finally nuke my Windows install for good (although Adobe
               | crap eventually forced me to dual-boot again). The irony
               | of Mozilla copying Microsofts anti-features does not
               | escape me and I sure hope this doesn't continue...
        
               | 0xffff2 wrote:
               | I for one am not upset, just confused because your
               | information doesn't match my information.
        
               | richard_todd wrote:
               | I have seen it happen also, but it's rare and I can't
               | recall if it was on Linux or windows. I tried to open a
               | new tab and it said "no more tabs until you restart
               | Firefox".
        
               | Liquid_Fire wrote:
               | I always assumed this was related to the multiprocess
               | architecture. If you've updated Firefox in the background
               | (e.g. via your package manager), and the new version is
               | not API-compatible, it will not be able to create a
               | content process for the new tab, hence the message.
               | 
               | Obviously this is only a problem on Linux, because on
               | other platforms Firefox's own autoupdater will only apply
               | the update when Firefox is restarting.
        
               | thallian wrote:
               | For what it's worth, that behaviour happens to me too (on
               | a linux system), doesn't seem consistent though (but I
               | never really took too much note).
        
               | franga2000 wrote:
               | Yeah, that's bound to happen on Linux if you run an
               | update while Firefox is open. Being able to continue
               | running while all your files get switched out from under
               | you is a pretty big thing to ask from a program and I
               | think they were having issues with crashes and risking
               | corrupted profiles, so they made it do that just in case.
               | 
               | In my experience, running software updates while using
               | the system is a pretty bad idea in general. It works well
               | most of the time, but there's a reason Linux* is the only
               | system that allows that (every other OS defers applying
               | updates to a reboot).
        
             | zinekeller wrote:
             | Are you on a Linux distro? The reason that this happens is
             | because Firefox in Linux uses many internal libraries, some
             | that are incompatible from one (even minor) version to the
             | next due to the tight coupling of some of the libraries.
             | Combine that with distro-managed updates, and the result is
             | the restart dialog. Updates on Windows and macOS are
             | different though, they are controlled by Firefox and you
             | can delay updates even when the update is downloaded
             | (Windows users might even see the loading bar associated
             | with the update).
        
               | inetknght wrote:
               | > _Are you on a Linux distro? The reason that this
               | happens is because Firefox in Linux uses many internal
               | libraries_
               | 
               | It happens because Firefox closes and re-opens libraries
               | and permits an in-place update (and thus, breaking
               | itself).
        
         | kevingadd wrote:
         | I've never had this problem over the course of like a decade
         | using FF, I suspect it might be due to your configuration. What
         | kind of message do you get when it happens?
        
           | silicon2401 wrote:
           | This thread has a screenshot and description of exactly what
           | I mean. It's happened to me pretty regularly. This is default
           | FF behavior. https://superuser.com/questions/1451210/how-can-
           | i-make-firef...
        
         | elcapitan wrote:
         | What happens to my Firefox (on Mac) very often is that it does
         | an auto update and then just becomes completely unstable
         | (things just suddenly stop working, like audio in a Google Meet
         | call). Then I restart, and get some happy "Hooray you have the
         | new Firefox" window, which makes me angry, because I was in the
         | middle of something important usually. I then procede by
         | clicking away the tab with the "features" and restore my
         | session.
        
         | mccr8 wrote:
         | This happens if another instance of Firefox or an external
         | package manager updates Firefox while you are running Firefox.
         | This can happen if you have installed Firefox via a Linux
         | package manager, or if you are running Firefox with multiple
         | profiles.
         | 
         | While I understand that it is very annoying if you hit this
         | issue, it is not done as some kind of trick to try to get you
         | to update. The issue is that Firefox is trying to start a new
         | content process to load your page, but the old executable no
         | longer exists so it is impossible.
        
         | franga2000 wrote:
         | I was under the impression Firefox on Windows only updated
         | before starting (and maybe after stopping) and on Linux, the
         | updates are managed by the system.
         | 
         | I don't use Windows much these days, but I'd love to know which
         | setting it is that turns this off as I tend to hoard tabs and
         | this sounds extremely annoying.
        
         | zinekeller wrote:
         | Are you on a Linux distro? The reason that this happens is
         | because Firefox in Linux uses many internal libraries, some
         | that are incompatible from one (even minor) version to the next
         | due to the tight coupling of some of the libraries. Combine
         | that with distro-managed updates, and the result is the restart
         | dialog. Updates on Windows and macOS are different though, they
         | are controlled by Firefox and you can delay updates even when
         | the update is downloaded (Windows users might even see the
         | loading bar associated with the update).
        
           | silicon2401 wrote:
           | This has happened to me on Linux, Windows, and MacOS. This
           | thread has a screenshot and description of what I mean: This
           | thread has a screenshot and description of exactly what I
           | mean. It's happened to me pretty regularly. This is default
           | FF behavior. https://superuser.com/questions/1451210/how-can-
           | i-make-firef...
        
             | kbrosnan wrote:
             | On Windows and MacOS this happens to users who launch
             | multiple profiles from the same version at the same time
             | via --no-remote and -P/--profile-manager or in multi user
             | systems where one user updates Firefox and the other person
             | is logged in and running the older version of Firefox.
             | 
             | As Jamie mentioned above Firefox is trying to launch a new
             | process and is unable to find a matching binary. Before
             | Mozilla detected the in-between update state there it was
             | common to see spikes of crashes that were related to
             | process spawning.
             | 
             | The choice Mozilla has is to allow the user randomly crash
             | with a chance of profile corruption or alerting the user
             | about the state and asking the user to trigger an orderly
             | shutdown.
        
       | skrap wrote:
       | I am having a really hard time holding onto Firefox as my mobile
       | (Android) browser. The interface takes several taps all over the
       | display to accomplish basic tasks.
       | 
       | For example: Looking at a site and want to open your "hacker
       | news" top site in a new tab?
       | 
       | 1) Scroll up until you trigger the top bar reveal
       | 
       | 2) Tap the boxed number button next to the address bar
       | 
       | 3) Way at the bottom of the display, tap (+) to open a new tab
       | 
       | 4) At this point the keyboard appears with the address bar
       | focused. I don't want that, so tap in the tab home screen
       | background where Top Sites can be seen
       | 
       | 5) Tap on hacker news "top site"
       | 
       | That's 5 gestures, each in a new area of the screen, just to open
       | a web site. Palm Pilot famously put nearly every common feature
       | in the entire OS within 3 taps of the home screen.
       | 
       | I really hope Mozilla can do better than this!
        
         | Abishek_Muthian wrote:
         | I have HN open permanently in a tab but I do face occasional
         | keyboard issues on FF android on HN i.e. it doesn't get
         | triggered when tapping on comment input.
         | 
         | But the feature I miss the most from chrome is scroll to
         | refresh, which I was told would be available soon.
        
         | SirYandi wrote:
         | Love Firefox for Android but my how bad the history screen is.
         | You can either delete one by one or delete everything at once.
         | No option for multiple selection or time-based deletion (clear
         | last hour's history).
        
         | colejohnson66 wrote:
         | Weird. On iOS, it's:
         | 
         | (1) scroll down a tiny bit to reveal bottom bar
         | 
         | (2) tap the box with the tab count
         | 
         | (3) tap "+"
         | 
         | (4) tap HN
         | 
         | Both (2) and (3) are at the bottom of the screen, and (1) can
         | be done near the bottom. (4) is the only one with a reach up to
         | the top.
         | 
         | Which leaves the question: why are the UIs between the two
         | platforms different?
        
           | extra88 wrote:
           | > why are the UIs between the two platforms different?
           | 
           | I think there's been greater emphasis on conforming to the
           | HID guidance and conventions on different platforms rather
           | than consistency in the same app on different platforms.
        
           | graton wrote:
           | My Android version does the same, but I did change the
           | location of the toolbar to bottom in the settings.
        
         | ckosidows wrote:
         | I really wish I could get off Chrome on mobile, but it just
         | works so flawlessly. I hated Firefox. It always felt like a
         | second-rate mobile browser. I tried Edge and it's better than
         | FF, but Chrome still just feels like how mobile browsing is
         | supposed to be.
         | 
         | I wish Edge or FF could just look identical to Chrome sans
         | being controlled by Google, which already knows far too much
         | about me.
        
           | Vrondi wrote:
           | Check out Vivaldi on mobile.
        
           | scns wrote:
           | Check out kiwi browser
        
         | graton wrote:
         | Maybe change the location of the toolbar (URL bar) to the
         | bottom. I changed mine to the bottom in the Settings.
        
         | wejick wrote:
         | My problem with the new interface is I can't edit the speed
         | dials, and it seems changing every now and then randomly.
        
           | hundchenkatze wrote:
           | I think you're referring to the "Top Sites" feature. These
           | will change based on how often you visit sites. You can pin
           | sites so that they don't change.
           | 
           | https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/customize-firefox-
           | home-...
        
             | wejick wrote:
             | You're right, thanks.
             | 
             | In this kind of interface usually the edit functionality is
             | on the tiles itself. It confused me until just now.
        
               | hundchenkatze wrote:
               | Yeah, it doesn't make much sense. They already have the a
               | context menu when you long press a tile. I don't know why
               | they don't allow you to pin from there.
        
         | maccam94 wrote:
         | The placement of the address bar is configurable, but maybe the
         | tab view should flip along with it...
        
         | pmontra wrote:
         | This is the new UI. The old one was much faster to operate. It
         | was like this: you are in this page, tap the tabs button at the
         | top, the screen with all the open tabs appears, tap + at the
         | same place of the other button and get to the top sites /
         | bookmarks screen. Or tap the URL and get directly there. The
         | new UI takes more taps and I don't understand what that is
         | supposed to improve.
         | 
         | I updated my tablet and my old phone to check the UI. I'm
         | staying on the old Firefox on my main phone, partly because of
         | the UI and 90% because of the add-ons I'm using. Not all of
         | them are available on the new Firefox.
         | 
         | Mozilla self sabotages every few years, then fixes things.
         | Unfortunately they lose users along the way.
        
           | campl3r wrote:
           | Agreed. I see no reason to upgrade to the new UI/versions on
           | android.
        
             | rst wrote:
             | The old versions aren't getting security patches. Not sure
             | there's a really good choice here.
        
         | mgbmtl wrote:
         | I agree this behaviour is weird. When I look at iOS users on
         | Safari, or Chrome, I feel like I'm using Windows 3.1.
         | 
         | Here's what I do on FF:
         | 
         | - When visiting a site, on the hamburger menu, there is a "add
         | to main sites" icon, which adds the site to the home screen of
         | Firefox.
         | 
         | - In the global prefs, I changed back to always displaying the
         | location bar at the top, and always present (the scrolling was
         | annoying me).
         | 
         | - We can long-press the tab icon, to open a new tab.
         | 
         | So if I'm on a site, and want to open HN:
         | 
         | - Long press "New Tab"
         | 
         | - Tap "HN" icon on the screen.
         | 
         | It's still annoying that it opens the keyboard by default. It
         | sometimes adds a few milliseconds of lag, but I guess then
         | search-heavy users would complain about the extra tap.
        
         | kbrosnan wrote:
         | Long press on the tabs button will give you a new tab option
         | which provides direct access to top sites.
        
           | thunderbong wrote:
           | Wow, didn't know about that. Now on, I'm doing a long press
           | on every button just to discover hidden features!
        
             | foepys wrote:
             | I'm still missing the long tap on tabs to reorder them. It
             | got removed with the switch to the new addon engine.
        
         | hundchenkatze wrote:
         | The way mine is configured allows me to get to top sites in 3
         | taps if I'm already looking at a site.
         | 
         | You can disable "Scroll to hide toolbar" in Customize to remove
         | step 1. Steps 2 and 3 are still required but moving the address
         | bar to the bottom keeps your taps closer together (The plus
         | actually ends up right over the boxed number so you can double
         | tap pretty quickly). You can also get rid of step 4 by
         | disabling "Show search engines" in search settings. Now when
         | you tap (+) the address/search bar will still be focused but
         | the top sites are still accessible.
        
         | goda90 wrote:
         | I had been holding out on updating from the old version of
         | Firefox for Android(yes I know, security issues), but some of
         | my favorite add-ons weren't supported yet. The other day my
         | add-ons stopped working right(I think they updated on their own
         | within the browser), so I finally decided to make the jump, and
         | so far its been horrible. So laggy and not intuitive.
        
       | hedgehog wrote:
       | Firefox performance has gotten quite good but scrolling still
       | isn't right. On Mac subjectively it feels like it's delayed
       | around 1-2 frames compared to Safari. I've read some of the
       | tickets for APZ etc and it doesn't feel like anything obvious is
       | getting neglected. Does anyone here know more about this?
        
         | 1_player wrote:
         | IIRC the Firefox mouse scrolling/acceleration factors are quite
         | off on macOS. I remember tweaking them to make scrolling feel
         | much better.
         | 
         | Sorry I'm not on macOS any longer, I don't remember what I
         | changed exactly.
        
       | CivBase wrote:
       | > Firefox no longer supports Adobe Flash. There is no setting
       | available to re-enable Flash support.
       | 
       | It took half a decade, but it's finally done.
        
         | uep wrote:
         | A ton of old web games and animations have suddenly just become
         | inaccessible. I wonder if the flash player could be ported to
         | webasm for legacy applications.
        
           | CivBase wrote:
           | They're still accessible, just not from modern browsers. You
           | can still use an alternative player like Flashpoint. Anyone
           | still relying on Flash to power a web interface is probably
           | SOL though.
        
           | acdha wrote:
           | See https://github.com/ruffle-rs/ruffle and how the Internet
           | Archive is using it:
           | 
           | https://blog.archive.org/2020/11/19/flash-animations-live-
           | fo...
        
       | Aisen8010 wrote:
       | Firefox without tabs in mobile is a no-go, especially in a
       | tablet. They did not put too much thought into this interface.
        
         | shrew wrote:
         | Have you possibly installed Firefox Focus mistakenly? I
         | purposely use this version to force myself to stop hoarding
         | tabs, at least on mobile devices. It sounds as though the main
         | version of mobile Firefox has tabs.
        
         | recursive wrote:
         | It works well for me.
        
         | wtetzner wrote:
         | What do you mean "without tabs"?
        
         | Darmody wrote:
         | Firefox mobile has tabs. You can even have tabs in normal mode
         | and other tabs in incognito mode.
        
         | dralley wrote:
         | Firefox mobile _has_ tabs, though?
        
           | iggldiggl wrote:
           | On tablets (and possibly large phones as well depending on
           | your dpi settings), the pre-rewrite version had an _actual_
           | tab interface similar to Desktop Firefox.
        
       | axelfontaine wrote:
       | <link rel="preload" (see https://developer.mozilla.org/en-
       | US/docs/Web/HTML/Preloading...) is the interesting one here!
       | Great to see it finally landed in Firefox!
        
         | tentacleuno wrote:
         | Wait, what? Only now they've added this?
        
           | hinkley wrote:
           | According to MDN, Safari 14 is the first to support preload.
        
           | kevingadd wrote:
           | Preload was pretty broken in Chrome for quite a while (I'm
           | still not sure whether they fixed the issues, actually) so
           | it's possible there wasn't ever much pressure to implement it
        
         | input_sh wrote:
         | I'm hoping for <iframe loading="lazy"> in the next few
         | releases!
        
       | aclelland wrote:
       | I always try Firefox every 6 months or so but end up going back
       | to a Chromium based browser after a few days. It's never anything
       | major but for example this issue with the address bar suggesting
       | the root domain instead of the pages I actually visit drives me
       | nuts -
       | https://www.reddit.com/r/firefox/comments/a2wz6x/firefox_add...
       | 
       | I'm glad they're continuing to improve the browser, maybe this
       | update will be the one that convinces me to switch!
        
         | abyssin wrote:
         | I've had this issue when I switched back to Firefox one year
         | ago, but now I have this sequence in my muscle memory: ctrl + l
         | to focus the address bar, tab to highlight first result, enter
         | to load it.
        
         | xxpor wrote:
         | Ack, no, I want the behavior described in the link! I hate that
         | chrome goes deep into sites :D
        
       | cortic wrote:
       | Been stuck on waterfox since the password manager downgraded to
       | 'Lockwise' (no field edits, no file imports). And since the great
       | add-on reset i can't get a decent tree tabs that doesn't steal
       | mouse focus from the main window..
       | 
       | So, yes, great, another version i probably won't be using.
        
         | nine_k wrote:
         | Hmm, Tree Style Tabs worked quite well for me for years, never
         | ever stealing focus.
        
           | cortic wrote:
           | Go to google, type something in, then try to select the text
           | by click-dragging right to left, but keep dragging until the
           | cursor is over the Tree Style Tabs, then release.. the page
           | will not have registered the release and if you move the
           | cursor over the page again it will deselect what you have
           | just selected.
           | 
           | Sounds like just a nuisance, and it is, but i use quick-keys
           | with my mouse and it really messes with my workflow.
        
         | icebraining wrote:
         | In case it's helpful, file imports to Lockwise can be enabled:
         | https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/import-login-data-file
         | 
         | Not sure what do you mean by "field edits", I can edit the
         | username/password just fine...?
        
           | cortic wrote:
           | Thanks, hopefully that will work for importing.
           | 
           | A lot of websites confuse the field auto detect system, you
           | go back to the page after saving password at login and FF
           | can't find the fields, usually cause it didn't save the field
           | names properly (you can see this in PasswordFox). The old
           | password manager you could edit the field names as well as
           | the U:P and URL fixing this problem. The new Lockwise
           | basically turned 5 minutes of logging in to 25 minutes of
           | copy and pasting for me..
        
         | eznzt wrote:
         | The new about:config editor is also rubbish. I don't know why
         | they rewrote it since it's just... worse?
        
         | kevingadd wrote:
         | You don't have to love it (I have similar complaints) but the
         | tree tabs thing is weird. I've been using Tree Style Tab for a
         | while and it doesn't have any issue like that.
        
           | majewsky wrote:
           | Same here. I have no idea what bug GP is even refering to.
        
         | rukshn wrote:
         | I just checked Waterfox does it own by an ad company?
         | 
         | https://www.askwoody.com/forums/topic/waterfox-has-been-sold...
        
           | cortic wrote:
           | First thing i did after installing was disable updates, i
           | should be fine for a while. -Another thing that is becoming
           | more difficult to do in FF.
        
             | franga2000 wrote:
             | > First thing i did after installing was disable updates, i
             | should be fine for a while.
             | 
             | That's a really dangerous thing to do for a piece of
             | software that's made to run untrusted code on your system!
        
             | rukshn wrote:
             | Waterfox is owned by an ad network for more than an year
        
       | daveFNbuck wrote:
       | Every time I see one of these, I try to switch from the beta
       | version to the stable version. I download the latest stable
       | version, quit my browser, copy it to my applications folder,
       | double-click, accept the warning that I'm running new software
       | downloaded from the internet, and find myself in the next beta
       | version.
       | 
       | Is there a way to switch from beta to stable without losing my
       | profile?
        
         | fckthisguy wrote:
         | You shouldn't need to jump through hoops of you're not already
         | running the _next_ beta.
         | 
         | I believe there's a beta switch in the general settings menu.
        
           | daveFNbuck wrote:
           | I'm not running the next beta. I've checked the general
           | settings menu. I don't see the beta switch.
        
         | newscracker wrote:
         | If you want to go back and forth between release and beta on a
         | single profile, that's not recommended. If you want to switch
         | your current beta profile permanently to an installation of the
         | stable release, you can do that from the terminal (command
         | line) by running the Firefox executable with the -p parameter
         | to select a profile. The documentation has instructions on
         | where the profile is located and how to find which profile is
         | used.
        
           | daveFNbuck wrote:
           | I just want to switch one time. I got on the beta like a year
           | ago when the current version was unstable, and I've been
           | trying to get back to release since that version was
           | released. Where can I find this documentation? How do I
           | install the stable release to port the profile to? Every
           | attempt I've made results in me still having the beta
           | version.
        
             | bhaile wrote:
             | You need to create a new profile with the stable release.
             | 
             | How to create a new profile.
             | https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/profile-manager-
             | create-...
             | 
             | Install the stable version but don't run it yet. Then
             | follow the instructions to start the Profile Manager when
             | Firefox is closed. If you need to recover data from your
             | old profile, the link above has instructions too.
        
         | cpeterso wrote:
         | You could set up a Firefox Account and use Firefox Sync to
         | synchronize your Beta and stable profiles (and then disable
         | Sync or the account, if you like).
        
           | daveFNbuck wrote:
           | I'd do that, but sync misses things like container settings.
           | Also, I'm unable to run stable at all. Whenever I install and
           | run stable, I somehow end up with the beta version.
        
         | franga2000 wrote:
         | Do make a backup if you attempt this as I'm talking from memory
         | here, but I believe I managed to do this once by not updating
         | the beta browser for a while and then copying it over once the
         | release channel caught up with the beta. It might've involved
         | modifying a version string in a profile file or something to
         | trick it into accepting it, but it worked perfectly.
        
       | 51Cards wrote:
       | Just a note for anyone who may see it. Something changed in the
       | UI CSS such that some of my customizations around the bookmark
       | bar no longer worked. There seems to be a new option called "Show
       | Other Bookmarks" that was enabled causing the entire bookmark bar
       | to become one large clickable item. Disabling that restored the
       | bookmark bar functionality. I'll have to investigate my user CSS
       | file to see if I can figure out what changed.
        
       | sudhirkhanger wrote:
       | >It's easier than ever to save and access your bookmarks. Firefox
       | now remembers your preferred location for saved bookmarks,
       | displays the bookmarks toolbar by default on new tabs, and gives
       | you easy access to all of your bookmarks via a toolbar folder.
       | 
       | I don't see a lot of use of Bookmarks toolbar, bookmarks menu,
       | and other bookmarks when there can be simply bookmarks and other
       | bookmarks like Chrome. Bookmark toolbar makes menu utterly
       | useless. I would rather have toolbar and an extension that
       | displays those bookmarks toolbar in a similar way as menu to
       | avoid added cognitive load.
        
       | tentacleuno wrote:
       | "For that reason, we are continuously working to harden Firefox
       | against online tracking of our users."
       | 
       | https://reports.exodus-privacy.eu.org/en/reports/org.mozilla...
       | 
       | Something like that.
        
         | franga2000 wrote:
         | Chrome/Edge/everything else: anybody and their dog can
         | personally identifiy individuals on the Internet and then sell
         | that information to advertisers who use it to psychologically
         | manipulate you into buying things. There is no consent or opt-
         | out.
         | 
         | Mozilla: we've made sure people can't do any of that, but we
         | collect anonymous statistics about how our own software is
         | used. Oh, and we tell you about it and let you turn it off if
         | you want.
         | 
         | People: Mozilla is evil and doesn't actually respect privacy.
        
         | icebraining wrote:
         | Firefox lets you manually opt-in into their analytics, yes.
        
           | tentacleuno wrote:
           | It's opt-out. Feel free to check this yourself, instead of
           | mindlessly defending Firefox. I'm tired of this exclusionary
           | attitude on Hacker News, to be perfectly honest.
           | 
           | There is absolutely no warning that this telemetry is active,
           | which is a dark-pattern in itself.
           | 
           | Looks like the Firefox mob have already got to this post. No
           | wonder nothing is changing.
           | 
           | -- tentacleuno
        
             | icebraining wrote:
             | You are right! My information was out of date. I just
             | installed Firefox for Android (I generally use the Beta)
             | and that crap was enabled by default. Sigh.
        
       | tsujp wrote:
       | I don't know about anyone else (perhaps this is more common than
       | just me) but being able to prettify that minified single-line JS
       | bundle in-browser now removes a solid 3-5 clicks and a few
       | keystrokes; and all it cost me was 1 click to update Firefox!
       | 
       | According to xkcd this is a productivity win-win!
       | 
       | Relevant xkcd: https://xkcd.com/1205/
        
       | whalesalad wrote:
       | Every software vendor could learn a thing or two from the great
       | presentation of FFX release notes.
        
         | Y-bar wrote:
         | Yes!
         | 
         | This is also why I think Sparkle [https://sparkle-project.org/]
         | is one of the best things about the Mac application ecosystem.
         | 
         | Edit: Should mention why, because it presents a consistent, and
         | clear, UI for users and it encourages developers to write
         | release notes.
        
         | koheripbal wrote:
         | This is one of the reasons I love Factorio. The release notes
         | are so interesting, they're actually part of the game's
         | experience.
        
         | Schlaefer wrote:
         | Alas the amount of information is very small. These release
         | notes usually only cover a fraction and somewhat arbitrary set
         | of changes.
         | 
         | In the past you could look up changes here [1], but updates
         | there stopped a while ago.
         | 
         | [1] https://wiki.mozilla.org/Firefox/Roadmap/Updates
        
         | shrewdcomputer wrote:
         | I know it's not the important part of this post but their
         | presentation really is good.
         | 
         | Particularly the security fixes. Easy to find case numbers,
         | impact levels and clear descriptions. All with decent spacing
         | that makes the page feel clear and legible.
        
       | user3939382 wrote:
       | Even with all reporting and telemetry disabled Firefox sends
       | network requests to Mozilla's domains upon launch, providing
       | Mozilla with usage tracking data. It would be nice if users who
       | care about this could get Mozilla to honor its privacy claims and
       | configuration settings.
        
         | juloo wrote:
         | These requests are used to detect WIFI portals.
        
         | kaba0 wrote:
         | Come on, you guys are in every thread nitpicking tiny tiny
         | things like this, while the alternative is literally
         | incomparably worse, and the only thing you achieve by this is
         | making firefox's case harder for those who don't look up your
         | ridiculous claims...
         | 
         | First of all, all of these things can be turned off; second,
         | checking if you are using an outdated, potentially insecure
         | browser is essential - if there is a vulnerability, the least
         | of your problem will be that one goddamn ping to a mozilla
         | domain...
        
           | user3939382 wrote:
           | > First of all, all of these things can be turned off;
           | 
           | They cannot. Reporting off, telemetry off, automatic updates
           | off, every related setting in about:config off -- Firefox
           | still transacts data with not one but several Mozilla domains
           | upon launching.
           | 
           | Mozilla can't ethically constantly talk about privacy out of
           | one side of its mouth while collecting data that can be used
           | to track users who have explicitly requested them not to do
           | that out of the other side.
        
             | kaba0 wrote:
             | Then feel free to look it up in the source code, or even
             | patch it.
        
             | franga2000 wrote:
             | > Mozilla can't ethically constantly talk about privacy out
             | of one side of its mouth while collecting data that can be
             | used to track users who have explicitly requested them not
             | to do that out of the other side.
             | 
             | 1. They can if they're an order of magnitude better than
             | everyone else, just like electric car makers can talk about
             | being environmentally friendly despite the fact lithium
             | isn't renewable
             | 
             | 2. Are you sure it's tracking? What data is actually sent?
             | Crash reports, update checks, network tests, motd fetching,
             | cache preloading... don't count as "tracking users". Hell,
             | even reporting on statistics (version, OS, platform,
             | region...) isn't actually tracking users, but FF lets you
             | disable that regardless because they know some people don't
             | like it.
        
         | pornel wrote:
         | It's a big leap from "makes a request" to "provides tracking
         | data". One doesn't necessary mean the other. It's even bigger
         | leap to say that it's done in violation of stated privacy
         | policies.
         | 
         | For example, requests for software update have to go to
         | Mozilla, but don't have any personal information, and are
         | legitimately necessary.
        
           | inetknght wrote:
           | > _It 's a big leap from "makes a request" to "provides
           | tracking data"_
           | 
           | No it isn't.
        
             | franga2000 wrote:
             | Care to elaborate?
        
           | psychoslave wrote:
           | Well, shouldn't the user decide what is legitimate to take
           | out of its behavior?
           | 
           | It might be done without bad intentions, but do Mozilla ask
           | consent before asking their users data about when they are
           | using Firefox, and so that they are (possibly) in front of
           | their screen.
        
           | labawi wrote:
           | If firefox is installed from a system package, or installed
           | by another user, it can't really update itself1, and updates
           | are not _legitimately necessary_.
           | 
           | 1 except of course any updates and binaries that firefox
           | downloads and gobbles up behind the users back.
        
             | pornel wrote:
             | Linux distros don't handle all of the updates, such as add-
             | ons or tracking protection blacklists.
             | 
             | Having an option to disable them would be a footgun. Such
             | "radio silence" serves no useful purpose to normal users,
             | but can make the browser appear buggy, e.g. if tracking
             | protection broke a site, and you wouldn't get a fixed
             | blacklist in a timely manner.
             | 
             | Someone has to host these dynamic components, and the
             | browser has to get them somehow. IMHO it's way better if
             | they're fetched straight from Mozilla that has strong
             | privacy policy and a good reputation to uphold, rather than
             | from some rando free distro mirror.
        
             | easton wrote:
             | If Firefox is installed by another user (or even by
             | yourself) on Windows, the Mozilla Maintenance Service is
             | installed to automatically update Firefox without requiring
             | you to personally elevate the installer.
             | 
             | I'd argue updates are legitimately necessary for 99% of
             | users (automatic updates are a huge reason why 90% of home
             | PCs aren't in a botnet, and were a big reason why Chrome
             | more secure in the old days vs IE/Firefox), and if you want
             | to disable them it's very easy to do (about:config ->
             | app.update.auto = false). But I don't know why you would,
             | if the browser is changing too much for you you can change
             | to ESR which is security updates only to older versions of
             | Firefox.
             | 
             | https://wiki.mozilla.org/Windows_Service_Silent_Update
        
               | labawi wrote:
               | I'm on linux.
               | 
               | Yes, automatic updates are pretty much necessary for
               | about 90-99+% of users, but many lot of them are using
               | system packages (which again, should not be able to
               | update isself), and it is still not a reason why there
               | shouldn't be a way to disable random background
               | connections.
               | 
               | One could argue a silent browser is legitimately
               | necessary for security research/operations, or just
               | severely data-constrained networks, but I have yet to
               | find a way to make firefox quiet.
               | 
               | Will app.update.auto disable all updates (browser, search
               | engines, safe-browsing, user-test, blacklists.. there was
               | at least a dozen features)? Last time I tried disabling
               | almost everything suspicious, yet firefox wouldn't
               | respect half of the settings.
        
       | eitland wrote:
       | Always a good thing.
       | 
       | That said, I downloaded Pale Moon yesterday and tested it
       | briefly: installed TST and one or two other extensions, visited a
       | few ordinary sites.
       | 
       | Even after all those years it still feel _good_. It is snappy and
       | the lack of a noisy tab bar on the top in addition to TST is
       | actually a huge deal!
       | 
       | So my question for anyone from Mozilla who steps in here:
       | 
       | when will you start fixing the extension API? I get it the new
       | API is more secure, but there is nothing that prevents making tab
       | positions configurable in a safe way.
       | 
       | Also, could someone please fix that nasty UX bug that some UX
       | designer introduced a decade or so ago where - if you select the
       | tiniest thing on the page - the navigation buttons disappear from
       | the context menus. After a decade or more this inconsistency
       | still annoys me.
        
         | LandR wrote:
         | You can get rid of the top tab and pretty much everything else
         | by editing the chrome.css files. The problem is updates break
         | it frequently.
         | 
         | https://imgur.com/BPDN1uP
         | 
         | The tabs expand on mouse-over:
         | 
         | https://imgur.com/7iCYykg
        
           | [deleted]
        
           | eitland wrote:
           | > The problem is updates break it frequently.
           | 
           | And IIRC they have expressed intent to remove this
           | possibility completely.
        
             | kibwen wrote:
             | Source?
        
         | followthesmell wrote:
         | Mozilla don't have the resources to scour comments for bug
         | reports.
         | 
         | Report it via https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/file-bug-
         | report-or-feat...
        
           | eitland wrote:
           | There are long standing bugs for both of these.
        
         | cycomanic wrote:
         | Sorry do you want to remove the top tab bar because you use
         | TST? I haven't had a tab bar for ever. I think it might need an
         | edit in user.chrome but is very straight forward.
        
           | cycomanic wrote:
           | Here is the description how to do it:
           | https://medium.com/@Aenon/firefox-hide-native-tabs-and-
           | title...
        
       | bugmen0t wrote:
       | Most notable change: new privacy protections!
       | https://blog.mozilla.org/security/2021/01/26/supercookie-pro...
        
         | Nicksil wrote:
         | HN discussion on this topic:
         | 
         | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25916513
        
       | 2T1Qka0rEiPr wrote:
       | I love all of the work that Mozilla do to make the web a better,
       | more privacy focused place.
       | 
       | A little time tinge of disappointment though, is that the new
       | Firefox for Android doesn't work at all with Lastpass' autofill.
       | I've tried to find bug reports (https://github.com/mozilla-
       | mobile/fenix/issues/9773) but they don't give me a clear
       | indication as to whether it's being worked on or not.
       | Unfortunately degrades my experience to the point of using other
       | browsers. It doesn't seem like the old Firefox is available via
       | the Play store in the meantime either?
       | 
       | It's probably inevitable when you release a completely new
       | version of something, but the small, missing features immediately
       | become obvious/upsetting!
        
       | tester34 wrote:
       | Why is it possible to detect whether you're using private mode or
       | not?
       | 
       | it's terrible, js shouldn't be aware of stuff like this.
        
         | lucideer wrote:
         | There is no dedicated feature in js to detect private mode:
         | private mode detection is done using a collection of innovative
         | hacks and misuses of features.
         | 
         | Tracking/detecting/fingerprinting/etc. is an arms race. Every
         | feature a browser has (or could have and lacks), can be used as
         | a variable to compile a tracking profile that identifies you
         | and/or your general browser configuration (including but not
         | limited to private mode).
         | 
         | The biggest one of these though is something private mode can't
         | control: IP. For that you need something like Tor or a VPN.
        
           | tester34 wrote:
           | IP may be very unreliable, so for some people it'd work
           | pretty fine
        
           | jakub_g wrote:
           | Like the parent said, typically it works like:
           | 
           | - browser ships a feature X
           | 
           | - they decide that X shouldn't be allowed in incognito (or
           | that incognito mode returns fewer values, has lower quotas,
           | uses different implementation that is slower/faster etc.)
           | 
           | - inadvertently, this becomes incognito detection vector
           | 
           | - people report the issue; the feature X is fixed
           | 
           | - another thing is shipped which accidentally allows
           | detecting incognito
           | 
           | - ad infinitum
        
       | IvanK_net wrote:
       | I am a creator of a web-based image editor www.Photopea.com and
       | here are things I miss in Firefox (and why my users prefer to use
       | Chrome):
       | 
       | - impossible to put an image into a clipboard (so that user can
       | e.g. paste it outside a browser)
       | 
       | - no PWA mode (impossible to put an icon of a website to your
       | homescreen, which will open the website without a browser UI)
       | 
       | - impossible to have keyboard shortcuts with Alt
       | https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1568130
        
         | loudmax wrote:
         | How is performance on Firefox?
         | 
         | I can do without the clipboard or PWA mode. Performance and
         | responsiveness are what converted me and plenty others from
         | Firefox when Chrome first appeared. If Firefox performance is
         | at least close to Chrome/Chromium it'd make switching back much
         | more appealing.
        
           | ocdtrekkie wrote:
           | Firefox performance since about version 68 or so has been
           | excellent.
        
             | slizard wrote:
             | In fact, _better_ than Chrome for most websites (exceptions
             | perhaps google's). I used to struggle with Chrome/Chromium
             | hang and chew on CPU cores, crawl to a halt, crash, or just
             | simply run out of memory or a regular basis. Switched to
             | Firefox ~67-69 and such issues are completely gone. I still
             | have significant CPU usage from background tabs
             | occasionally even in Firefox, but the rest of the issues
             | are all nearly inexistent (even though I have on average
             | 30+ tabs open).
        
               | eCa wrote:
               | My tabs have gotten out of control (they are in the
               | hundreds (due to reasons)), but Firefox handles it quite
               | nice. It only gets restarted after updates, so they are
               | long-lived as well.
               | 
               | Chrome seem to struggle when there are tens of tabs.
        
               | foepys wrote:
               | I personally know somebody who is currently running a
               | Firefox with 3,000+ (yes, you read that right) tabs as
               | part of their day to day workflow. Firefox just unloads
               | tabs that weren't used for long and cause high memory
               | pressure which is very neat feature for tab addicts.
        
               | Kliment wrote:
               | This describes me. I currently have 3467 tabs. Firefox is
               | the only browser that can handle this.
        
           | prox wrote:
           | Firefox is really fast, it feels a lot more responsive on my
           | system and boot time is almost instant.
        
           | 3836293648 wrote:
           | Scrolling smoothness is still nowhere near EdgeHTML (old, non
           | chromium Edge), but is just behind or better than Chrome
        
           | wejick wrote:
           | Browser performance is not only about objective benchmark but
           | also subjectivity on our feeling when using the browser. So
           | trying it first hand and be open-minded would help confirming
           | it on your very personalized usecase.
           | 
           | I suggest to try Firefox as side browser for your light
           | browsing need. Maybe like when reading news, social media
           | browser, or anything make sense for you.
           | 
           | This worked for me, in my case, now chrome is my side
           | browser.
        
           | fckthisguy wrote:
           | It's been pretty amazing since the start of the Quantum
           | project. At least since FF70.
           | 
           | I also switched to Chrome rims ago when it came out due to
           | how buttery smooth it was, but switched back after it starter
           | to get slow.
           | 
           | Chrome's a memory hog and it runs slow and clunky on older
           | devices, in my experience.
        
           | pmontra wrote:
           | I don't know how it compares to Chrome but it's definitely
           | fast enough to leave me with no complaints. I'm using it on
           | Samsung A40 and Tab 5e, plus a Sony Xperia X Compact. Also as
           | my primary browser on my laptop (Ubuntu 20.04).
        
         | bityard wrote:
         | > impossible to have keyboard shortcuts with Alt
         | 
         | Wait, why should web pages be able to usurp keyboard shortcuts
         | traditionally reserved for the browser itself?
        
           | kaslai wrote:
           | Because people want a desktop application experience inside
           | of the browser.
           | 
           | When I was playing a Counter Strike web app example posted
           | here a few months ago, it was endlessly frustrating to have
           | Control and W mapped to actions that you may want to perform
           | simultaneously while also not being able to suppress default
           | behavior. I kept accidentally closing the tab as a result...
           | 
           | I personally think that the ability to override default
           | shortcuts isn't necessarily a bad thing, but I definitely
           | think it should be opt-in, like capturing the mouse cursor
           | is. There should be strict separation between "app" features
           | and what a default website should be able to do. Overriding
           | shortcuts should be one of the "app-only" features imo.
        
         | arendtio wrote:
         | +1 for the missing PWA mode.
         | 
         | As a user I create separate Firefox profiles for every site I
         | want to use as a PWA, add a desktop short-cut and some custom
         | userChrome.css, but while the result is okay, it sucks to set
         | it up.
         | 
         | The only positive seems to be, that I can disable the buggy
         | Spotify service-workers while keeping them enabled for other
         | pages.
         | 
         | It would be awesome, if the PWA implementation would even
         | support the system tray (similar to kdocker), but just the
         | basic functionality would be better than the status quo.
        
         | inetknght wrote:
         | > - impossible to put an image into a clipboard (so that user
         | can e.g. paste it outside a browser)
         | 
         | That's a feature. Websites should not have access to my
         | clipboard.
         | 
         | > - no PWA mode (impossible to put an icon of a website to your
         | homescreen, which will open the website without a browser UI)
         | 
         | That's a feature. Icons on my home screen should only ever be
         | native applications. Use bookmarks for websites instead.
         | 
         | > - impossible to have keyboard shortcuts with Alt
         | https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1568130
         | 
         | Just build a native app. It's literally what you want.
        
           | IvanK_net wrote:
           | So let's say it is 2005, some phones have cameras, and some
           | don't. The manufacturer of phones without cameras says:
           | "Phones are for calling, just buy a camera, it is literally
           | what you want".
           | 
           | You can be right, but the market has a final word.
           | 
           | Today, many people enjoy using advanced apps, that can be
           | "installed" and "uninstalled" in one second (by opening and
           | closing a website), without leaving any track (mess) in your
           | computer.
        
           | matsemann wrote:
           | Not having a feature you don't like is not a feature....
           | Putting yourself as the arbiter for what others would want is
           | arrogant.
        
             | inetknght wrote:
             | > _Not having a feature you don 't like is not a feature_
             | 
             | Having a feature that breaks user's security is not a
             | feature.
        
               | franga2000 wrote:
               | What security? This is about write-only access and it
               | already exists, just not for all media types.
        
               | inetknght wrote:
               | So a website can inject crap into my clipboard? No
               | thanks.
        
               | franga2000 wrote:
               | That is your opinion and your problem and there's an
               | about:config option to disable it.
        
           | colejohnson66 wrote:
           | > That's a feature. Icons on my home screen should only ever
           | be native applications. Use bookmarks for websites instead.
           | 
           | Why shouldn't I be allowed to put a bookmark as an icon?
           | That's essentially what a PWA is anyways. A fancy bookmark
           | that behaves like a native app. Why are _you_ the arbitrator
           | of what _I_ can do?
        
           | jjcon wrote:
           | It's dismissals like this that have led Firefox to have the
           | same market share as 'Samsung internet'
           | 
           | What happened to giving users control?
        
           | gnud wrote:
           | > Websites should not have access to my clipboard.
           | 
           | Being able to take an image from the web page and place it on
           | the clipboard is not 'the website having access to my
           | clipboard'. It's the _browser_ having access.
           | 
           | Going in the reverse direction, placing data from the
           | clipboard into the web page, is more tricky, but Firefox
           | already does a good job of blocking clipboard accesses unless
           | they're the direct result of user action (keyboard shortcut
           | or button press).
        
             | sudosysgen wrote:
             | You know that you can just copy an image to the clipboard
             | on Firefox yourself, right? Right click, copy image.
             | 
             | The question is whether the website should be able to push
             | images to the clipboard by itself, which it shouldn't.
             | Firefox already supports doing what you're talking about.
        
               | franga2000 wrote:
               | The point is when the image is not an image. Maybe it's
               | being drawn on a canvas, or composited with multiple
               | layers, or you want only a part of it (all of these apply
               | to Photopea, I believe).
               | 
               | I don't like the way clipboard access is handled in
               | browsers either, but the fact remains that if I'm using
               | an in-browser image editor, select a part of the image
               | and press CTRL+C, I want that portion of the image in my
               | clipboard. How it gets there is an implementation detail
               | that the average user doesn't and, if it doesn't affect
               | security/privacy, shouldn't have to care about. And since
               | it's write-only, there's no security/privacy concern.
        
           | jakelazaroff wrote:
           | _> Just build a native app. It 's literally what you want._
           | 
           | What if "literally what I want" is to edit a photo without
           | installing any software?
        
         | shmerl wrote:
         | _> impossible to put an image into a clipboard (so that user
         | can e.g. paste it outside a browser)_
         | 
         | No idea what you mean. I can use any image. Right click - "Copy
         | Image". Then paste it anywhere like in image editor. Works
         | without any problems.
         | 
         | Firefox 86.0b1, Debian testing / KDE Plasma 5.20.5.
        
         | moron4hire wrote:
         | Lack of OffscreenCanvas (without setting a flag) and
         | OffscreenCanvasRenderingContext2D in WebWorkers (no flag at
         | all) makes my WebXR project almost unusable (I have to jump
         | through some ugly hoops of fading the view to black during
         | scene loading to keep the user from throwing up from the render
         | thread frame drops). Having to polyfill WebXR out of the
         | ancient WebVR API is a pain, too.
         | 
         | Normally, the fact that practically nobody actually uses
         | Firefox would mean it's not a huge problem. But the only
         | standalone VR headsets with a Chromium-based browser are the
         | Facebook headsets. If Firefox were better, I could be running
         | twice as many of the not-Facebook-encumbered Pico Neo headsets
         | for the same price. As it stands, Oculus for Business headsets
         | are almost the same price as a Valve Index, once you add in the
         | mandatory "support" yearly licensing fee.
        
           | franga2000 wrote:
           | Can you share anything about what it is that you're working
           | on? I never understood why web VR/AR APIs even exist and why
           | anyone would want to use them with the hardware we have
           | today.
        
             | moron4hire wrote:
             | It's a foriegn language instruction environment for
             | government employees. You meet with your language
             | instructor in culturally-appropriate environment and role-
             | play different language training scenarios.
             | 
             | Why shouldn't the browser have VR APIs? WebXR allows us to
             | iterate faster, across more devices, and more easily
             | integrate with other services than building in a framework
             | like Unity can do for us. I've spent the last 6 years doing
             | nothing but WebXR and Unity work and WebXR is hands down
             | far easier to develop the sort of application we're
             | building.
             | 
             | No, you're not going to build MS Flight Simulator in WebXR,
             | but you probably weren't going to do that in Unity, either,
             | and ain't nobody got the budget for AAA++ graphics anyway.
             | The folks who do graphically intensive work in Unity have
             | stripped large parts of Unity away to make it possible.
             | 
             | I don't understand your last question.
        
           | alserio wrote:
           | > Normally, the fact that practically nobody actually uses
           | Firefox would mean it's not a huge problem.
           | 
           | I assume you mean "practically nobody without an adblocker".
           | I dread the day we could have to live without Firefox. Don't
           | dismiss it like that, please.
        
             | moron4hire wrote:
             | I'm sorry, but it's not my fault that Firefox only has 4%
             | market share in the world. Mozilla dismissed themselves.
        
               | damnyou wrote:
               | I'm pretty sure the primary driver of that was Google
               | turning Chrome into shovelware bundled with Adobe Flash
               | and marketing it aggressively.
        
               | moron4hire wrote:
               | Cuz Firefox was in such a _strong_ position before Google
               | came around, right.
               | 
               | Mozilla has never been a competitive company. They've
               | always leaned heavily on the illusion of being a non-
               | profit. They've always sold the "eat your vegetables"
               | version of web browsing, without actually offering
               | anything compelling over the competition. We're just
               | expected to use Firefox because "it's made by not-
               | Google".
        
               | damnyou wrote:
               | Firefox was in fact in a stronger position before Google
               | turned Chrome into shovelware, yes.
        
               | daniel957 wrote:
               | I came from another post to see your commenting style.
               | You use "in fact" a lot without supporting your statement
               | lmao.
               | 
               | You were clearly the issue in the other thread.
        
           | fckthisguy wrote:
           | It's a real shame that FF isn't on feature parity with Chrome
           | in some ways, but 7% is not "practically nobody".
           | 
           | With Chrome, Edge, Opera, and Brave all running on Chrome,
           | we're getting awfuly close to a browser monoculture - one
           | controlled by Google.
           | 
           | Supporting FF might be a pain in some cases, but failing to
           | do so drives users away from FF in the long run, and drives
           | away FF users from your site.
           | 
           | I know web devs have limited resources, but look at it this
           | way: supporting FF and Chrome is a lot less of a pain than it
           | used to be supporting IE.
        
             | moron4hire wrote:
             | It's really more like 4%, and falling every year.
             | 
             | My job is not to drive users to Firefox. My job is to
             | create a product that people can use. And in my particular
             | case, my job involves creating a product that doesn't
             | physically harm people.
             | 
             | I agree that browser monoculture is a problem. But there is
             | another problem that Mozilla is not the company that is
             | helping with the problem.
             | 
             | EDIT: to go a little further on this, it's not physically
             | possible to create a good WebXR experience in Firefox, at
             | this time. Despite their announcements of focusing on Hubs
             | as one of the few projects they kept around after the most
             | recent purge, there are key technologies that are
             | fundamentally missing from Firefox that have no
             | replacement. And then they have the termerity to user-agent
             | sniff Chromium browsers on desktop PCs and tell you that
             | they supposedly don't support WebXR, that you need to
             | download Firefox to use Hubs. So it seems even Mozilla
             | doesn't really give a shit about the Open Web.
        
         | karakanb wrote:
         | I just want to say thank you for creating Photopea. It has been
         | a lifesaver in many occasions, amazing work!
        
         | jjcon wrote:
         | I love photopea! Cool to see the dev on HN. Also yes, I'm a
         | chromium user.
        
         | jjordan wrote:
         | The thing I miss most in Firefox is the Smart Bookmarks feature
         | they removed a while ago. Smart Bookmarks were fantastic. Add
         | your favorite sites' RSS feeds to your bookmark toolbar and
         | you'd have all the recent headlines from all your favorite
         | sites at one click. Fortunately I wasn't the only one that
         | appreciated this long neglected feature so someone created
         | Livemarks (https://github.com/nt1m/livemarks/) that mostly
         | replicated its functionality, but it's not quite the same as
         | having native support for them.
        
           | 51Cards wrote:
           | Yes! I loved this feature and had several feeds linked up.
           | Was wonderful to summarize my morning reading quickly.
        
         | ginko wrote:
         | > impossible to put an image into a clipboard (e.g. to paste it
         | outside a browser)
         | 
         | That's news to me. I do that almost on a daily basis with
         | Firefox.
        
           | muizelaar wrote:
           | This is about doing it programmatically. As in
           | https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1619947
        
           | superbatfish wrote:
           | Not sure, but I think he is referring to a programmatic API
           | for doing it (e.g. so he can give users a "click here to copy
           | image" button).
        
         | immewnity wrote:
         | Right click -> Copy image does exactly what you want, no?
        
           | IvanK_net wrote:
           | I mean putting an image into a clipboard when the user
           | presses Ctrl+C, or some button in my program (without crating
           | a <img> element on the screen and asking the user to right-
           | click it).
        
           | nine_k wrote:
           | It's about programmatic access to clipboard, like selecting a
           | part of image in a browser-based image editor (likely a
           | canvas), and copy-pasting it into some other application.
        
         | evilpie wrote:
         | - impossible to put an image into a clipboard (e.g. to paste it
         | outside a browser)
         | 
         | I literally implemented support for the
         | navigator.clipboard.write API, with image/png support included,
         | in today's Firefox Nightly version:
         | https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1619947
         | 
         | Enabling it on release might take a bit longer though. The
         | specification is currently not in a good shape. And there are
         | some open questions around permissions etc.
        
           | thayne wrote:
           | image/png is only one of many types of images though.
        
             | llarsson wrote:
             | If the point is a copy-paste raster image that shall be
             | understood by most other programs, then image/png is a fine
             | choice, as it is lossless and well-known.
        
               | thayne wrote:
               | > If the point is a copy-paste raster image
               | 
               | There are other use cases though that aren't supported by
               | PNG, such as vector images and animated images. Or more
               | niche use cases like RAW images.
        
               | kaslai wrote:
               | Vector images don't really need direct support though, do
               | they? A lot of vector image interchange formats are just
               | plaintext so normal text clipboard APIs should suffice.
               | 
               | Animated images could definitely be somewhat useful
               | though, albeit much more niche than static raster images.
               | In most cases where I want an animated image on my
               | clipboard, a link will suffice. What I want may not map
               | to the majority of course, but at least PNG support is a
               | start!
        
               | llarsson wrote:
               | My interpretation of the situation exactly. You have to
               | start somewhere.
               | 
               | Raster image support should also be able to support stuff
               | drawn on a canvas element, so I think it is a great place
               | to start.
        
               | thayne wrote:
               | > A lot of vector image interchange formats are just
               | plaintext so normal text clipboard APIs should suffice.
               | 
               | Yes, but I don't think you can set the MIME type. So
               | whatever you paste in would have to be smart enough to
               | look at a text/plain clipboard data and figure out if it
               | looks like an SVG (or whatever).
        
           | JohnBooty wrote:
           | On behalf of millions of users, that's awesome and thank you,
           | thank you, thank you for all that you do.
        
           | inetknght wrote:
           | > _I literally implemented support for the
           | navigator.clipboard.write API_
           | 
           | I beg you, do not let websites put things into my clipboard.
        
             | mminer237 wrote:
             | Yes, boo features. How dare other people be allowed to do
             | things I don't want to do.
        
             | IvanK_net wrote:
             | It can be done only after the user confirms, that they want
             | to allow the website to do it (similar to a webcam access,
             | etc).
        
             | DyslexicAtheist wrote:
             | if this is important to some users (to me it is) why
             | blindly trust an application's claim of what it does
             | without verifying/restricting it[1]? The IMHO logical step
             | for a user (again most don't care) would be to sandbox the
             | application with a precise set of calls that are
             | whitelisted and judge the application not based on trust
             | but based on what they allowed in their security controls
             | (firejail, apparmor, seccomp, SElinux, ...) and so
             | immediately see if they did something different (that
             | breaks the promise/trust)? (even then browsers have million
             | lines of code so even with best intentions ymmv)
             | 
             | Reading/writing clipboards is a problem for sandboxing
             | since they act as a bridge to another layer that otherwise
             | has no contract or understanding of the application. So are
             | many other features not just on browsers but on any
             | application that for some reason needs to handle a
             | gazillion tings (on Linux subscribing to system/user dbus
             | messages is a big issue and out of the box totally
             | unmitigated).
             | 
             | [1] If a monolith like chrome/firefox needs to
             | understand/parse hundreds of protocols, technology-
             | standards, etc, is a challenge to sandbox, maybe it isn't
             | the sandboxing but the application that is the wrong tool
             | for the users threat-model? Note, there is also
             | Tor/Tails/QubesOS if isolation between user-space
             | applications is a serious concern.
        
         | maliker wrote:
         | Great job with Photopea! Definitely the best image editor with
         | Google Drive integration.
        
           | alangibson wrote:
           | I was just grousing about not being able to crop an image in
           | Drive. Heading off to check out Photopea...
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | luastoned wrote:
         | - impossible to have keyboard shortcuts with Alt
         | https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1568130
         | 
         | I tried the keyboard shortcut fiddle with FF86 and it works
         | just fine after clicking in the white part once.
        
           | rzzzt wrote:
           | I encountered this problem in archive.org's DOS emulator, and
           | at that time there was an about:config fix for it:
           | https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/questions/1278533
        
             | jansan wrote:
             | Those about:config and chrome:flags fixes are only useful
             | for us hackers. You cannot ask your user base to change the
             | deep settings of your browser. For apps it either works out
             | of the box or it does not.
        
         | joshuaissac wrote:
         | > no PWA mode (impossible to put an icon of a website to your
         | homescreen, which will open the website without a browser UI)
         | 
         | Firefox for Android has this. Are you referring to Firefox for
         | desktop?
        
           | tweetle_beetle wrote:
           | The Firefox team has more or less said that the feature is
           | not coming to desktop. I think a primitive version was hidden
           | behind a flag, but even that is going to be dropped.
        
             | addicted wrote:
             | Do you know the reasoning behind this?
        
               | kenniskrag wrote:
               | > As Gijs says, we have limited resources and so have to
               | spend those resources on work that appears to have the
               | most impact on our mission. Based on the available data
               | we have (both the research we performed as well as
               | looking at how Chrome and Edge's implementations are
               | being received) PWAs on desktop fall behind other work
               | right now.
               | https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1682593
        
             | eznzt wrote:
             | That's bad. I use it with Edgium for Spotify and it's neat,
             | it behaves like a desktop application.
        
               | moron4hire wrote:
               | I use it for about half a dozen apps. Azure Portal,
               | Youtube Music, SoundCloud, Google Cloud Platform,
               | Twitter, Teamwork, and this chat app I maintain. And I
               | keep them pinned to my taskbar. I love this feature.
        
               | [deleted]
        
             | [deleted]
        
           | IvanK_net wrote:
           | I think a PWA mode is useful in all cases on all devices. But
           | most of users use my program on desktops.
        
             | emayljames wrote:
             | On my Firefox Desktop on Manjaro Linux, I was able to save
             | a link and set it to no toolbars. No magic settings done.
        
         | tsujp wrote:
         | Hey thanks for the cool site -- I've used it numerous times for
         | non-trivial image manipulation I've needed to complete where
         | access to Photoshop was not possible.
        
         | prower wrote:
         | > - impossible to put an image into a clipboard (so that user
         | can e.g. paste it outside a browser)
         | 
         | Isn't it possible with the convenient "Capture screeenshot"
         | feature in Firefox (the 3 dots next to the address bar)?
        
           | franga2000 wrote:
           | I think that feature uses some private or extension-only
           | APIs, whereas Photopea can only use what's available to
           | normal webpages.
        
         | mig39 wrote:
         | Hey, I just wanted to thank you for Photopea! We use it in our
         | schools almost exclusively. Students love it.
        
           | boogies wrote:
           | Student here, I loathe it and the schools that it et al.
           | convince ChromeOS is an acceptable substitute for real OSes.
           | It seems more crashy than pre-1.0 Inkscape and slow as
           | nitrogen-cooled molasses to boot.
        
         | butz wrote:
         | Sadly, "PWA mode" (it probably should be called "Install to
         | desktop") was being worked on under "Site Specific Browser
         | (SSB)" name, but due to lacking resources work will be
         | scrapped. More info here:
         | https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1407202
        
       | jonny383 wrote:
       | Slow release. Conscequence of firing engineering team and
       | focusing on politics?
        
         | tentacleuno wrote:
         | I really wish they would stop focusing on politics too. Now
         | their latest political stunt has got heads rolling, hopefully
         | Mozilla will learn that their money is best invested into
         | Firefox.
        
           | war1025 wrote:
           | > Now their latest political stunt has got heads rolling
           | 
           | Care to elaborate?
           | 
           | I assume the "political stunt" part was related to all the
           | Trump deplatforming stuff a few weeks back.
           | 
           | Hadn't heard anything related to anyone actually getting any
           | pushback for it though.
        
             | tentacleuno wrote:
             | Sorry about the late reply. The Firefox apologist mob
             | managed to get me shadow banned with the unjust down-votes,
             | lol.
             | 
             | A lot of people uninstalled Firefox because of Mozilla's
             | politically-fueled 'disinformation' post on their blog. I
             | don't blame them. I worry that Pocket will have these
             | mysterious AI's enabled to defeat 'disinformation', which
             | is why I actively avoid it.
             | 
             | -- Tentacles
        
               | franga2000 wrote:
               | > "the Firefox apologist mob"
               | 
               | You can't possibly be serious....
        
         | LukeShu wrote:
         | Releases happen monthly, often this late in the month:
         | 80 was on the 25th         79 was on the 28th         78 was on
         | the 30th
        
       | xxpor wrote:
       | I want to use firefox but I have a very stupid problem that makes
       | it extremely annoying:
       | 
       | I have to use federation to login to slack. When Slack opens a
       | page in the browser, that works fine, but then once I'm signed in
       | it takes me to the web interface rather than opening the native
       | client back up.
       | 
       | This isn't a tech support forum obviously but if someone had a
       | hint of where to look, that'd be really helpful. I'm on ubuntu
       | running i3.
        
         | jamestenglish wrote:
         | Not on ubuntu but looked up in my settings how it is handled:
         | 
         | Preferences -> General -> Applications
         | 
         | Content Type: slack
         | 
         | Action: Use Slack
         | 
         | Do you have that setting?
        
         | wejick wrote:
         | Maybe not helpful for you
         | 
         | I use slack as pinned tab on Firefox, and it runs OK. It's
         | easier for me when doing context switching since most of my
         | works are on the browser.
        
         | 1986 wrote:
         | Maybe need to modify your xdg-open settings for the slack://
         | scheme?
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | computronus wrote:
       | The linked piece about the use of network partitioning to hamper
       | supercookies is worth a read.
       | 
       | https://blog.mozilla.org/security/2021/01/26/supercookie-pro...
       | 
       | It's too bad that we'll have to trade off browser efficiency for
       | privacy.
        
         | Nicksil wrote:
         | HN discussion, as well
         | 
         | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25916513
        
       | tupac_speedrap wrote:
       | RIP in peace Flash
        
         | Speednet wrote:
         | Rest In Peace in peace Flash
        
           | smcl wrote:
           | GP is likely aware of the correct form, "RIP in peace" is a
           | light hearted online thing
        
           | johnnycerberus wrote:
           | It's a meme
        
             | 6equj5 wrote:
             | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RAS_syndrome
        
       | taftster wrote:
       | Supercookie protection! Thank you Mozilla team, the changes and
       | focus you've made to protect user privacy in recent years has
       | really been appreciated!
       | 
       | https://blog.mozilla.org/security/2021/01/26/supercookie-pro...
        
         | fsflover wrote:
         | Discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25916513.
        
       | WC3w6pXxgGd wrote:
       | There is 0 chance I will be using Firefox after this insane blog
       | post. I've sent this to many people, who are now using Brave.
       | 
       | https://blog.mozilla.org/blog/2021/01/08/we-need-more-than-d...
        
       | 1996 wrote:
       | Edge on linux has a Samsung-like dark mode (invert colors, but
       | respect pictures) that does not require any extension, just
       | commandline flags.
       | 
       | Anything like that on Firefox?
       | 
       | If not, I'm not sure Firefox is currently the best option for any
       | usecase - even on Linux.
        
         | franga2000 wrote:
         | The Dark Reader extension does that very well and even works on
         | mobile (Firefox for Android).
         | 
         | If you really want to do this without extensions, you could try
         | applying a global CSS filter using one of the CSS files in the
         | profile folder (I don't remember which, but I think it's
         | userStyles or globalStyle.css - should be easy to look up). The
         | filter to apply is first an invert(1), then a hueRotate(180deg)
         | on top of it.
         | 
         | It's not perfect, and it will have the opposite effect on pages
         | that are already dark, but it's the best you can do without an
         | extension.
        
         | tester34 wrote:
         | >Edge on linux has a Samsung-like dark mode (invert colors, but
         | respect pictures) that does not require any extension, just
         | commandline flags.
         | 
         | >Anything like that on Firefox?
         | 
         | Themes? I use the dark one
        
         | kevingadd wrote:
         | Firefox dev edition defaults to dark mode still as far as I
         | know, though I've personally been using Owl for this for years.
        
           | 1996 wrote:
           | Extension are a security risks. It's not rocket science to
           | invert colors - the browser can easily do that with no CSS
           | involved.
           | 
           | No browser support for dark mode= no dark mode for me.
        
             | franga2000 wrote:
             | Are you saying you'd rather run Microsoft's proprietary
             | browser than a simple open-source browser extension?
             | 
             | If you insist, go download Dark Reader from GitHub, look at
             | the code (it's not particularly complex) and install it
             | into Firefox locally.
        
             | fckthisguy wrote:
             | Dark mode is actually a CSS property and can be implemented
             | by webpages directly.
             | 
             | I use FF daily and it uses darkmode in sites that respect
             | my system settings, because I have my system set to
             | darkmode.
             | 
             | I use a Mac. Darkmode is a native feature.
        
               | 1996 wrote:
               | > Dark mode is actually a CSS property and can be
               | implemented by webpages directly.
               | 
               | I know, but I don't want to rely on their goodwill.
               | 
               | I want the browser to provide a dark mode that work in
               | all cases, therefore:
               | 
               | - if webpages advertise a support of dark mode, oblige
               | them
               | 
               | - if they don't, invert colors and use any other tricks
               | as required
               | 
               | On Linux, Edge is the safest and the simplest way to
               | always have a dark mode everywhere.
        
             | shrew wrote:
             | Do you consider the developer edition an extension, or is
             | your point about extensions relating to GP's reference of
             | Owl?
             | 
             | Firefox Developer Edition is a first party version of the
             | software from Mozilla. It runs slightly ahead of the
             | standard Firefox version I think.
             | 
             | FWIW, Waterfox also uses dark browser chrome by default,
             | although if you're worried about security risks in
             | installing extensions, a third-party fork of Firefox may
             | not sit well with you either.
             | 
             | Regardless, I've used both pieces of software and had very
             | positive experiences.
        
         | nine_k wrote:
         | See Stylish extension and the "Universal dark mode" theme.
        
           | 1996 wrote:
           | As I said, without an extension (can't trust them), so I
           | guess the answer for firefox is no, it doesn't support that.
           | 
           | Of course, it may display dark mode in sites that respect the
           | system theme - it's the easy part.
           | 
           | I don't mean that, because I don't want darkmode to be
           | restricted to the few websites that respect my system
           | settings: I want my browser to be "always dark", regardless
           | of how cooperative or well (or badly) done the website is.
           | 
           | Dark mode on Edge is forced on the website: if it doesn't
           | support it, the colors are inverted - with no theme or CSS
           | tweaking required.
           | 
           | That's not rocket science, but still far better than anything
           | I've seen on Firefox
        
             | frenchy wrote:
             | I haven't used the new Edge, but simply inverting the
             | colors is going to give you a bad time, all your photos
             | will look rather strange. Realistically, it would want to
             | do something quite a bit more complicated than that. On
             | simple websites, this sort of thing works well, but on
             | compicated websites, it's a nightmare.
        
               | 1996 wrote:
               | > I haven't used the new Edge, but simply inverting the
               | colors is going to give you a bad time, all your photos
               | will look rather strange
               | 
               | Try it: the invert is intelligent enough to work in most
               | cases. I think it substracts the background, which is
               | often white/whitish, so you get the normal image but on a
               | black background.
               | 
               | Also, there's an option to not invert pictures if you
               | prefer.
        
         | scns wrote:
         | Kiwi browser on android has that
        
       | SloopJon wrote:
       | I haven't noticed Firefox for Enterprise before. At first I
       | thought it was a new name for extended support release, but
       | Enterprise is available in both ESR and the regular releases. I
       | can't tell from the landing page what the difference is. Is this
       | just about streamlining enterprise-wide deployment?
        
         | ocdtrekkie wrote:
         | It's not a separate version, it's separate notes about how the
         | new version (and new ESR) are likely to affect enterprise IT.
         | It's explicitly where they put notes about changes to the Group
         | Policy templates, for example.
        
           | extra88 wrote:
           | Yes and Active Directory Group Policies are just one of the
           | ways to distribute and enforce policies on Firefox, there's
           | also macOS profiles and policies.json files for all versions.
           | In my old job I used a policies.json file. Annoyingly, there
           | wasn't a way to write path values in a platform-agnostic way
           | (e.g. to specify download file location) so it was necessary
           | to maintain two versions for macOS and Windows.
           | 
           | https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/products/firefox-
           | enterpris...
        
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