[HN Gopher] Shell buys UK's largest electric vehicle charging ne...
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Shell buys UK's largest electric vehicle charging network
Author : reddotX
Score : 137 points
Date : 2021-01-25 13:20 UTC (1 days ago)
(HTM) web link (www.ft.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.ft.com)
| gnicholas wrote:
| I don't know anything specific about this purchase, but this
| doesn't surprise me a ton in light of Shell's partnership with
| the impact-oriented Unreasonable Group. [1] I know the
| Unreasonable team through my work with them on literacy issues,
| and they are super dedicated to making a positive impact in the
| world. When they announced their partnership with Shell UK, the
| CEO sent out an email explaining to the community why they are
| working with such an unlikely partner.
|
| Hopefully this is another data point that trends in the same
| direction.
|
| 1:
| https://www.forbes.com/sites/annefield/2020/08/31/unreasonab...
| avrionov wrote:
| Some negative comments below, but this is good news. This is the
| sign that the electric cars on the streets have a critical mass
| big enough for Shell to invest. The second positive outcome is
| that if they are directly involved in the electric cars business,
| they will be one less company trying to stop the greener
| technologies.
|
| With more and more electric cars on the roads, the demand for the
| gas stations will decrease and some of them will close. Finding a
| gas station will become more difficult. It seems that most of the
| other owners are not thinking long term what will be the effect
| on their business.
| SkyMarshal wrote:
| I agree. Political opposition by fossil-fuel companies to
| renewable energy and everything climate change is a problem.
| But aligning their interests in this way is a positive step
| that may reduce or eliminate that opposition. Incentive
| alignment matters.
| LatteLazy wrote:
| I don't disagree entirely but...
|
| We will see a lot from shat Shell does next. If they invest and
| expand the network, they can be the dominant player. That will
| show they're transitioning to the new era etc.
|
| If they do nothing and let the network stagnate, that will
| delay Electric car introduction in the UK a lot.
|
| Kodak famously developed the digital camera but couldn't bring
| themselves to cannibalise their own market. Will Shell now have
| the balls to do that or will they take the safer option and
| delay?
| avrionov wrote:
| I think this is very different from the Kodak situation. They
| are responding to market forces - the electric cars. The
| charging stations will provide a new revenue stream for them
| and it help them to transition.
| LatteLazy wrote:
| We'll see I guess. Personally, I think it would be brave of
| shell to trade petrochemicals for the electric hookup
| market. They'd be a middle man, in a competitive market,
| with no "moat" protecting them. Kodak could at least have
| sat on their patents for a while.
|
| I honestly do hope I'm wrong.
| sanp wrote:
| I think there will be greater interest from Shell here
| because for a while now the margins from operating gas
| stations largely comes from the associated convenience
| stores. With the longer charging times (relative to filling
| up a tank of petrol) customers will spend more at this
| convenience stores.
| LatteLazy wrote:
| It would be interesting to see what they can make of the
| market. 30min of charging time is a lot more opportunity to
| sell food, drinks, entertainment, etc. I wondered about a
| Michelin Star equivilent model: places you could stop for
| 30-60min, get food, be entertained. I could even see a
| model like a gym: pay a monthly membership stop off 2-3
| times a week, charge, get fit.
|
| It's like the opposite of fast food: I don't want to be in
| and out. I want to be here for at least 30min. I want
| comfort. I want entertainment.
| adflux wrote:
| Wow, really enlightening comment. I only ride a
| motorcycle myself so have never even thought about that.
| icu wrote:
| One thing that could be driving this is the rise of
| Environmental, Social, and Governance (ESG) investing in the
| UK, and across the EU, due to regulatory changes.
|
| I wouldn't be surprised if Shell's management are aware of
| ESG pressure from institutional investors.
| LatteLazy wrote:
| That's true and I hadn't thought of that angle at all. If
| it saves them from investor divestment for another 6 months
| it's a steal!
|
| /cynicism
| deeeeplearning wrote:
| They of course could have just bought the network only to
| squash it.
| Olumde wrote:
| I think Shell has decided that it is in the energy business,
| no matter the source of that energy. Surely its executives
| can remember seemingly invincible incumbents in other
| industries that failed to cannibalize their products. That or
| they are taking the EU directive to phase out new
| petrol/diesel car engines in 2030 (ish) seriously.
| sfifs wrote:
| Very unlikely. All oil companies see the writing on the wall
| for gasoline powered daily consumer vehicles especially in
| urbanized areas and that electric vehicles sometime over next
| 5 to 10 years will tip over as significantly more
| economically viable. So everyone is trying something or the
| other to get ahead of the trend. Eg middle east and norway,
| are trying to funnel their oil money into diversified
| holdings. Makes sense Shell will too
| waheoo wrote:
| I'm less of an optimist, I'm betting theyre taking over to
| slow its growth while keeping the back door open for when
| they need to start focusing on it.
| reaperducer wrote:
| There have been a lot of moves like this by the big oil companies
| lately. It reminds me of a Stephen King short story called "The
| Jaunt."
|
| The story is about the world after man has invented
| teleportation. Aside from being a handy way for the mafia to
| dispose of bodies, it also made burning dinosaurs unnecessary for
| transportation. So all of the big oil companies went into water.
| They became Shell Oil and Water, Exxon Oil and Water, British
| Fluids, etc.
| beambot wrote:
| Already happening: "California Water Futures Begin Trading Amid
| Fear of Scarcity"
|
| https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-12-06/water-fut...
| kaycebasques wrote:
| I wonder if Stephen King's use of "jaunt" is an homage to The
| Stars My Destination?
| WJW wrote:
| Shell has been very open in the last few years that they see
| themselves as an "energy" company and that they don't care very
| much if the energy comes from fossil fuels or from renewables, as
| long as consumers buy it from Shell. They've seen the writing on
| the wall and are moving to where the money will be in the future.
| Apart from this acquisition, they have also invested in wind
| parks (their offshore expertise is quite handy apparently),
| hydrogen electrolysers for damping renewable production peaks and
| several other large and capital intensive projects that they are
| very well positioned to take on.
|
| The main concern seems to be whether they can make the cultural
| switch in management as there are quite a few "old hands" in
| middle management that are quite attached to the fossil fuel
| sector that they grew up with. On the other hand, the CEO and
| board seem fully on board so we'll see how it plays out. In the
| coming weeks with the annual report they are expected to present
| a new strategy document for the coming decade with more details
| on how they plan to go about it. This is a company that has tens
| of billions per year to invest in new energy projects, as well as
| some top tier talent. It'll be interesting to see what they come
| up with.
| nashashmi wrote:
| I always wonder why other companies did not take on this
| approach. When you dig up oil you get natural gas too. But oil
| and natural gas companies are seen in competition.
|
| Like wise when you exhaust an oil gas field you get free land
| for solar and wind.
|
| These things were such no Brainers.
| beauzero wrote:
| Mineral rights leases, I do not believe, are not extended to
| solar and wind in the USA. In the USA you don't necessarily
| own the land you are extracting resources from.
| cr1895 wrote:
| You may like to read up on Orsted (formerly DONG). Formerly a
| major oil & coal energy producer, now one of the largest
| global players in green energy. It continues to be a
| remarkably successful transition.
| cr1895 wrote:
| >The main concern seems to be whether they can make the
| cultural switch in management as there are quite a few "old
| hands" in middle management that are quite attached to the
| fossil fuel sector that they grew up with.
|
| Shell has recently made some very significant restructuring and
| reorganizing moves so I wonder how true this still is.
| hetspookjee wrote:
| They're not so open about Nigeria and their responsibility
| there.
| rkangel wrote:
| While this is a sensible strategy, I do retain some cynicism.
| "Have been very open about" can sometimes mean "our PR has been
| very good" while they privately lobby against anything
| renewable. Hopefully we can take what they're saying at face
| value though.
| WJW wrote:
| Cynicism is almost always a good idea. Companies like Shell
| (83k employees in 2019 according to wikipedia) are large
| enough that they can simultaneously have departments trying
| to diversify into renewables and also have different
| departments lobbying against renewables. Their willingness to
| invest billions of dollars in renewables and the surrounding
| infrastructure does make me hopeful though.
| [deleted]
| gambiting wrote:
| Great! Here in the UK their charging stations seem to be among
| the most reliable, coupled with the fact that you can actually
| pay with a card at the charging station, no stupid accounts/fobs
| needed. Just plug in, tap your card on the side, done. Easier
| than filling with petrol.
| djohnston wrote:
| Will they just run it into the ground? Article is paywalled.
| skeeter2020 wrote:
| Shell has stated their plans to become the world's biggest
| supplier of electricity; running this as agoing concern seems
| in line with their new strategy.
| stuaxo wrote:
| Lets see if their actions follow their words.
| adrianN wrote:
| Why would they do that? BEVs are the future, you can make more
| money by selling them electricity than by clinging to gas for a
| few more years.
| bagacrap wrote:
| I dunno, clinging to gas seems to have been pretty lucrative
| for the last years/decades,.even if the switch is inevitable
| (if only bc gas is a finite resource). If the big oil
| companies had been really motivated to push alternative
| vehicles I'm sure we'd be a lot closer to 100% off petroleum
| by now.
| JulianMorrison wrote:
| Given how fungible electricity is, any attempt to stifle it
| would just open the way for a competitor.
|
| This looks like a hedge against the inevitable day when people
| stop buying gasoline.
| notahacker wrote:
| Yep. The UK government's current plan is to ban sales of new
| petrol and diesel powered cars from 2030. Running and
| expanding charging networks keeps Shell relevant over the
| coming decades, acquiring them in the hope of stalling them
| would just be setting fire to money.
| Cthulhu_ wrote:
| Nope; the writing has been on the wall for fossil fuels for
| decades, because they KNOW it's a finite resource. The way
| things are going nowadays though, it's more likely fossil fuels
| will simply stop being mainstream; for ALL parties involved,
| it's the more economic option.
|
| I mean granted, there's pretty big profit margins on fuel, but
| with electric they can get rid of the underground tanks, the
| trucks, the safety checks, the fire hazard, etc.
|
| So whereas the oil producing countries have invested their
| incredible amounts of oil money into real estate, companies
| like Shell are investing in charging points. Because they're
| good, long-term investments, they don't need much attention,
| they can be placed anywhere, and every charge session is a bit
| of profit for whoever owns them.
|
| I mean I'm confident Tesla's long-term strategy isn't so much
| producing cars - since the established car companies are going
| to overtake them in that regard, if they haven't already - but
| infrastructure, supplies, IP and raw materials (charging
| stations, batteries, technology and lithium / cobalt /
| intermediate goods, and big projects for power companies like
| grid-level batteries).
| that_guy_iain wrote:
| They already bought another electric vehicle charging company
| an EMSP which connects the users with the companies that have
| the charging stations. That seems to be going ok and the thing
| with the UK is the largest one owns like 90% of the stations so
| they basically have a stranglehold on the UK market. Also, I
| know one of their main (maybe largest) competitiors are running
| themselves into the ground.
|
| Source: I work for the competitor
| rkangel wrote:
| > [in the UK] the largest one owns like 90% of the stations
|
| This article says that Ubitricity has the largest network of
| electric charging points. I can't reconcile that with your
| statement about 90%. Which provider were you referring to
| there?
| that_guy_iain wrote:
| I can't remember the name, I've just sat in a bunch of
| business meetings where they kept saying the problem with
| the UK was we couldn't get access to the market because one
| company, whose name got mentioned a few times but not
| enough to remember, had 90% and wouldn't work with us or
| anyone because they make more money without partnerships.
| It could be the 90% are connected to a hub and the hub
| won't work with us. We have direct connections with CPOs
| (Charing Point Operators) and then we have connections with
| hubs, most of our CPOs come via a hub like Hubject.
| [deleted]
| curiousllama wrote:
| Anyone know the purchase price? Hard to know what to think of
| this otherwise. Is this a defensive acquisition, to protect a
| fragile Shell charging business? Or is this speculative, where
| they want to pump in $ to accelerate and dominate? Will Ubicitry
| function as an R&D/experiments arm, or actual LoB?
| giantg2 wrote:
| I believe it will be a real LoB intended for growth. Shell has
| made it clear in shareholder communications that they will
| greatly expand thier renewables because they see that as the
| future.
| gertrunde wrote:
| Not sure where they get the "largest" from...
|
| Apparently the largest is... BP.
|
| And their charging point network seems to be fairly slow,
| 3-5.5kW, fairly similar to basic home charging, but built into
| bollards and lamp posts.
| newsclues wrote:
| Oil companies buy systems to rent seek from future
| energy/transportation infrastructure. Not surprising.
| throwaways885 wrote:
| Nothing wrong with that as long as the climate improves.
| itsoktocry wrote:
| Oh brother, can anything please people? These gigantic
| corporations are trying to diversify away from oil. That is
| what we _want_. They already own a ton of real-estate and
| infrastructure; who else should run the "fuelling" stations?
| 7952 wrote:
| Of course anyone _could_ install charging points. It is much
| easier than running a petrol station and could be
| complimentary to a lot of other businesses.
|
| The opportunity for an investor is finding low hanging fruit.
| Or securing a higher price for electricity you intend to
| generate.
| Ericson2314 wrote:
| "Punitive tax me all you want as long as you subsidize me more"
| gertrunde wrote:
| A non paywalled version of the story:
|
| https://www.theguardian.com/business/2021/jan/25/shell-agree...
| samwhiteUK wrote:
| FT is PS33 a month?? Fuck off
| Mvandenbergh wrote:
| If you're not paying for your news, you're a product being sold
| to advertisers.
| dfgdghdf wrote:
| Maybe you're paying for the news and the product being
| sold...
|
| Unless the publication is a non-profit, why would they leave
| this on the table?
| sib wrote:
| Pretty sure that most newspapers that charge for
| subscriptions also sell ads. Similarly with TV news channels.
| throwaways885 wrote:
| Ask your employer to pay for it.
| FerretFred wrote:
| It makes sense (for Shell) because a lot of streets and buildings
| in the UK aren't charge-point friendly. Add to that the outdated
| electrical infrastructure in many places: any more power demand
| would necessitate upgrading wiring from substations to streets.
|
| What the real problem is though is that successive Governments
| have failed to properly invest in the right type of power
| stations, and I'm not sure if renewables could handle the extra
| projected load. See: https://www.gridwatch.templar.co.uk/
| ZeroGravitas wrote:
| The National Grid has modelled this and thinks it'll be fine.
| It's had to issue a few media corrections because apparently
| the story that electric cars will melt the grid is just too
| clickbaity to miss out on.
|
| Renewables and electric vehicles are fairly synergistic,
| particularly wind in the UK.
| 7952 wrote:
| Domestic power load already fluctuates a lot and the grid
| handles that fine. Most people are not going to need to
| recharge fully every day and the load could be spread
| throughout the night.
| barrkel wrote:
| Many lampposts in London have been converted into charging
| points; you increasingly see electric black cabs parked up and
| plugged in.
|
| I agree that some streets aren't friendly for parked cars, but
| the situation is better than e.g. old Roman cities on the
| continent, where you do see tiny city cars alongside scooters
| etc.
| helsinkiandrew wrote:
| In the UK the proportion of profit from petrol sales vs forecourt
| stores is already dropping fast. The petrol retailers are all
| increasing their forecourt stores with tie ups with retailers.
| 50% of some petrol station visits don't involve petrol sales at
| all
|
| With the increased time to 'fill up' with electricity it would
| make this more appealing to the companies
| bdamm wrote:
| Tesla has already built a handful of entire mall complexes
| around a core of rapid chargers. I guess the model is you plug
| in and then go choose from one of the immediate destinations to
| spend your 20 minutes.
| mtmail wrote:
| Does Tesla own and operate those malls? Or do mall/building
| companies work with Tesla to install chargers? https://en.wik
| ipedia.org/wiki/Tesla_Supercharger#Large_Super...
| jsight wrote:
| No, the closest that I'm aware of is the cafe at Kettleman
| City.
| olivermarks wrote:
| It's inevitable that bigEnergy will dominate any EV
| charging infrastructure and pricing. Governments collect
| huge taxes from fuel for travel, some of which they use
| to maintain roads.
|
| Going from a 3 minute fill up of gasoline or diesel to a
| 20 minute minimum recharge and having to go to a shopping
| mall is a currently regressive and inconvenient step.
| Hopefully as battery and grid tech improves this will
| become less inconvenient.
| jsight wrote:
| I don't understand why its inevitable that big energy
| will dominate. There's nothing particularly global about
| our electricity supply that requires it to be as
| dominated by oligopoly the way that Gasoline and Crude
| Oil could be.
|
| I do expect that the future looks a lot more like
| C-Stores with charging stations than some of the current
| stations though. A lot of new Tesla installs are going in
| at gas stations, but they are the newer stations (Sheetz,
| Wawa, Parkers) rather than stations owned directly by oil
| companies.
|
| I'm not sure what's regressive and inconvenient about a
| shopping mall. Most have food courts, and tbh, I think
| the ideal charge stop would be one near a food hall.
| dec0dedab0de wrote:
| For long trips it is definitely inconvenient, but if you
| have a charger at home it is much more convenient than
| filling up a tank.
| slg wrote:
| The article is paywalled, so I'm not sure if they cover this. I
| don't love a company owning two competing verticals when those
| verticals are impacted by network effects. Shell's gas business
| becomes less valuable the more they build out their EV business
| and vice versa. It creates a big potential conflict. What are the
| odds that a company like Shell would make the the decision that
| benefits society and prioritizes the EV business over their
| fossil fuel business?
| Zanni wrote:
| If they're prevented from entering a competing vertical
| (electric charging), doesn't that _guarantee_ a conflict? They
| 'd be putting everything into protecting their existing
| vertical (oil and gas).
| rlpb wrote:
| I understand your concern. On the other hand though, if fossil
| fuel based business is going to shrink massively over the next
| few decades and their entire business resolves around this,
| switching while carrying across their brand and relevant
| expertise seems like a perfectly sensible thing for their
| shareholders to do.
| slg wrote:
| It isn't about what is sensible for the business. It is about
| what is sensible for society. These fossil fuel companies
| have routinely put their own short term financial interests
| above that of the planet. Maybe they have learned their
| lesson and will fully commit to a cleaner future. Maybe they
| will drag their feet on their EV business in order to give
| their gasoline business a few more great years. A majority of
| the legacy players in this space have a history of ignoring
| or actively slowing down the transition from ICE vehicles to
| EVs. If I was the UK government, I would need some guarantee
| that Shell wouldn't do this before I allowed this purchase to
| go through.
| imtringued wrote:
| 100% guaranteed if there is a carbon tax.
| notahacker wrote:
| > What are the odds that a company like Shell would make the
| the decision that benefits society and prioritizes the EV
| business over their fossil fuel business?
|
| As certain as anything in business in the UK, since the UK
| government has a timeline to ban the sale of new fossil fuel
| powered vehicles, and no such plan to ban EVs.
| jaggs wrote:
| Hmm...I'm not sure you're 100% correct there. It seems likely
| that the long term goal will be to switch from private
| ownership of cars, EV or not, and switch to automated roaming
| vehicles like personal electric taxi/buses wherever possible.
| Cities cannot absorb many more vehicles? It seems somewhat
| similar to CD ownership vs streaming?
| notahacker wrote:
| I'm 100% certain the UK government's actual plan to force
| all new cars to be electric in a few year's time is more of
| an influence on a fossil fuel supplier acquiring UK car
| charging networks than your own speculation about a post-
| car world. Sure, there's no certainty the world won't be
| restructured to allow everybody to pool AGI taxis, but
| that's not really a factor in Shell backing EVs against the
| petroleum it made its fortune with.
| srijith259 wrote:
| So whats stopping them from destroying the charging networks, so
| that they can keep the gas/petroleum demand up?
| jgalt212 wrote:
| Have you read about the General Motors Streetcar Conspiracy?
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Motors_streetcar_consp...
| ffpip wrote:
| Royal Dutch Shell has agreed to buy Ubitricity, owner of the
| largest public charging network for electric vehicles in the UK,
| as the oil major expands its presence along the power supply
| chain.
|
| Shell said on Monday it would buy 100 per cent of the company for
| an undisclosed amount. Ubitricity, founded in Germany, is a
| leading European provider of on-street charging for electric
| vehicles.
|
| The company, which integrates electric car charging into street
| infrastructure such as lamp posts, has more than 2,700 charge
| points in the UK, giving it a market share of 13 per cent.
|
| Shell said the acquisition would help it expand into on-street
| charging. It already has more than 1,000 fast and ultrafast
| charging points at 430 Shell retail stations and a greater number
| including those owned by partners and affiliates at forecourts
| and motorway service stations.
|
| Subject to regulatory approval, the deal is expected to close
| later this year.
|
| Street charging is expected to expand rapidly as customers who
| lack private driveways and those that wish to charge their
| vehicles overnight seek greater options.
|
| Istvan Kapitany, who heads Shell's mobility business, said:
| "Working with local authorities, we want to support the growing
| number of Shell customers who want to switch to an [electric
| vehicle] by making it as convenient as possible for them."
|
| Like peers such as Total and Repsol, Shell has been expanding
| along the electricity supply chain in recent years as it looks to
| build a business that will be resilient through an energy
| transition towards cleaner fuels.
|
| Investors and environmentalists have demanded that oil companies
| take greater responsibility for their role in enabling climate
| change, forcing Europe's energy majors to make new pledges for
| cleaning up their businesses.
|
| Shell, like BP and other oil groups, said last year it would
| become a net-zero emissions business. It is expected to detail
| its plan for how to get there next month at its strategy update.
|
| While top leaders at the company plan to accelerate spending into
| cleaner businesses, they are also wary of abandoning lucrative
| legacy hydrocarbon divisions too soon.
|
| For example, while electric vehicle adoption is accelerating, the
| fleet is still dwarfed by those with traditional engines. Demand
| for petrol and diesel is expected to remain robust for decades to
| come.
|
| While Shell's leadership insists it has been on the right path,
| some executives have said it is not moving fast enough given the
| rapidly changing demands of the public, investors and climate
| activists.
|
| The pressure to take climate action has grown over the past year,
| even as the coronavirus pandemic battered the balance sheets of
| international oil players.
|
| Lockdowns and travel bans dramatically cut demand for oil and led
| to a collapse in oil prices, hitting earnings.
|
| Shell cut its dividend for the first time since the second world
| war, slashed spending by billions of dollars and said it would
| cut 9,000 jobs as part of a major restructuring.
|
| The company is expected to announce its fourth-quarter results
| next week.
| 0xfaded wrote:
| Highly recommend the book "Rentier Capitalism" as a follow up
| to "Capital in the 21st Century".
|
| Royal Dutch Shell receives a detailed study as a resource
| rentier, and be warned that Shell is basically just a holding
| company that knows how to sweat an asset. Makes total sense
| that they would be prepared to acquire a charging network.
| btbuildem wrote:
| Cautiously optimistic that they're doing it in order to maintain
| their stranglehold on transportation energy networks (what a
| thing to be optimistic about!) and not in effort to dismantle it
| aka auto companies vs light rail / trolleys / etc in the US back
| in the day.
| cr1895 wrote:
| You can trivially find the sort of investments and projects
| Shell is working towards...they are heavily involved in
| offshore wind for electricity and green hydrogen. That they
| would be buying up EV charging in order to dismantle it can be
| dismissed outright.
|
| https://www.shell.com/energy-and-innovation/new-energies.htm...
|
| https://www.shell.nl/media/persberichten/2020-media-releases...
| jsight wrote:
| IMO, the concern isn't so much dismantling it as mismanaging
| it. Some of these charge networks are moving to REALLY
| unattractive pricing models.
| sigio wrote:
| Yup.... shell (via subsidiary newmotion.com) just changed
| their pricing model in the Netherlands. From variable
| pricing per charging point (most cheaper than 35ct), they
| now have a fixed 35ct /kwh overall.
|
| In practice it means my charging went from 18 or 25ct to
| 35ct/kwh. Lets just say I haven't used shell-
| recharge/newmotion since they implemented this last month.
| spockz wrote:
| Do you have a recommendation for another "provider". I do
| like the maturity of the new motion app and most chargers
| i frequent were 32-35ct/kWh already.
|
| I wonder what people now pay for charging for my
| NewMotion charger at home. That used to be controlled by
| my price. If I set that to 10ct/kWh, will they make a
| 25ct margin?
| giantg2 wrote:
| I think they are doing it for the right reasons. I think Shell
| has been working on next-gen fuels/tech for a while and even
| published a shareholder plan concerning their move to
| renewables.
|
| If they do dismantle it, I don't see how they could avoid
| antitrust issues.
| hyperpallium2 wrote:
| Maybe oil companies can survive EV. If you're selling to the
| same customers for the same purpose, it's a sustaining (not
| disruptive) technology, according to Christensen.
|
| Though he evaluated the first iPhone as non-disruptive, so IDK.
| notyourwork wrote:
| We still make a lot of the car with oil based products.
| Tires, plastic interiors, paint.
| TimPC wrote:
| In all fairness there is a case to be made the first iPhone
| was non-disruptive. It would say the real disruptive
| technology was the app store not the phone itself. The first
| iPhone didn't have the app store.
| avrionov wrote:
| Many people underestimated the first iPhone. It has all the
| capabilities to be a disruptive technology. The appstore
| was missing only due to timing of the release (this is my
| assumption, haven't checked out).
|
| Also Christensen book has been critiqued many times
| especially about the inevitability of the disruptive
| technology [1].
|
| [1] https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2014/06/23/the-
| disruption...
| ben_w wrote:
| I absolutely underestimated the iPhone, and the only
| reason I didn't underestimate the Apple Watch was that I
| had learned to trust Apple's judgement over my own -- I
| still don't really get what it is about the Watch that
| makes it such a success.
| jsight wrote:
| Its hard to say for sure, IMO. Greenlots seems to have lost
| some locations in my state since the Shell acquisition.
| cogman10 wrote:
| Shell see's the writing on the wall. Fossil fuel cars are going
| to no longer exist, and when that starts to happen, what you'll
| see is an over abundance of fuel supply pushing profits down.
|
| All oil producers should be considering this sort of forward
| thinking move. Particularly with increasing regulations against
| fossil fuel cars in some states and all the EU, it makes a LOT
| of sense to start to make an exit plan like this.
| codeulike wrote:
| _Royal Dutch Shell has agreed to buy Ubitricity, owner of the
| largest public charging network for electric vehicles in the UK_
|
| I've been driving EVs in the UK for 5 years or so and I've never
| heard of Ubitricity so is this bullshit, or do Ubitricity own
| someone lower down like ChargeYourCar or something like that?
|
| edit: Ah here we go, seems like they might be big in London
|
| https://insideevs.com/news/457155/ubitricity-largest-public-...
|
| _ubitricity 's approach is slightly unusual, compared to the
| typical charging networks, as it uses a lamppost or bollard,
| equipped with Type 2 AC charging sockets. Because there is
| already an electricity connection, the company reduces the
| installation cost and time.
|
| It's quite interesting also from EV drivers' perspective
| (especially if they don't have their own parking space), as there
| are now streets in London where every lamppost has been
| retrofitted with an ubitricity charging point._
| buro9 wrote:
| The majority of lamp post chargers in London are ubitricity.
|
| Of the multiple networks I've used, these are the cheapest and
| most reliable to use... pricing very close to domestic electric
| rates, and it's up to you to secure your parking (which is a
| good thing as something like Source London includes a parking
| fee even when a CPZ is not in action).
|
| The only issue with ubitricity to date is that whether or not
| they're in your area depends on your council being willing to
| work with them. Shell would help this a lot.
| LeoPanthera wrote:
| They make most of the lamppost chargers in London.
| youeseh wrote:
| This is their move to catch up with Chevron (and other large
| service providers) that has been building up their own charging
| network, I believe.
| [deleted]
| mattbee wrote:
| Charging infrastructure in the UK is so bad - I have so many
| terrible apps on my phone to activate the many brands of
| different charging points. So I'm very happy to see consolidation
| if that's going to make charging more reliable.
|
| The mystery for me - why don't they _all_ work on contactless
| payment? (like Instavolt does) That way, I don 't need an app,
| account, tracking or anything else - just tap my card and start
| charging.
| oakesm9 wrote:
| How do they get your email address to remind you to use their
| charge rather than their competitors if you just seamlessly use
| a contactless card?
|
| They've got to get that marketing information!
| cogman10 wrote:
| It really shouldn't even need that, it should be what Tesla
| does with their supercharger network. Plug in your car, it does
| a tap/pay style negotiation, start charging.
|
| CCS just adopted a payment standard based on that and I hope it
| ends up killing the need to pull out your wallet to charge.
| rsynnott wrote:
| You're back to the phone app problem there; you'd need
| accounts with a bunch of different charging companies.
|
| Unless you were having the car actually pay on your behalf, I
| suppose, but that has other obvious problems.
| jgust wrote:
| Do you have an account with every gas station that you use?
| Grocery store? Restaurant? There's some tech bias to this
| line of thinking.
| cogman10 wrote:
| I don't see the obvious problems with the car paying. It
| can do exactly what google and apple pay does. Issue a one
| use token for payment to the charging system which is
| ultimately redeemed with a credit card purchase/money
| transfer. The only needed system is for either car
| manufacturers to setup their payment systems, or for them
| to rely on some 3rd party to provide the same system.
| There's already an android auto and apple auto so I'd
| imagine google or apple would both leap at the opportunity
| to handle payment for them.
|
| The only way with obvious problems, to me, is a system that
| requires you to pull out a credit card. That is wide open
| for card skimmers.
| gambiting wrote:
| Mercedes does that. If you buy their EQC you can use any
| charging point in the UK and start charging through the
| Mercedes ME app, it will be billed to Mercedes and then
| they send you an invoice later. Apparently it works really
| well but obviously it requires Mercedes to maintain
| hundreds of different contracts with all these companies
| itsoktocry wrote:
| > _It really shouldn 't even need that, it should be what
| Tesla does with their supercharger network. Plug in your car,
| it does a tap/pay style negotiation, start charging._
|
| That's a lot simpler when you only have a few cars on the
| road and standardized charging hardware. But this will get
| figured out in time. I mean, look at fuel pumps.
| cogman10 wrote:
| It's already part of the CCS standard, so I expect that
| you'll start seeing manufactures slowly adopt it in the
| future.
|
| The trick is getting current stations updated. I still
| can't tap and pay everywhere and that's somewhat
| frustrating.
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