[HN Gopher] Oldest Libraries in the World
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Oldest Libraries in the World
Author : peter_d_sherman
Score : 73 points
Date : 2021-01-25 07:52 UTC (1 days ago)
(HTM) web link (www.oldest.org)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.oldest.org)
| peter_d_sherman wrote:
| >"The library at Saint Catherine's Monastery located at the foot
| of the legendary Mount Sinai,
|
| _is the oldest continually operating library in the world_. "
|
| [...]
|
| "Due to its age and importance in the Christian world, the
| monastery's library has the second largest collection of
|
| _ancient manuscripts and codices_ ,
|
| just after Vatican City.
|
| The library houses several unique and important texts, including
| the Syriac Sinaiticus and, until 1859, the Codex Sinaiticus, the
| oldest known complete Bible dating back to around 345 CE. A few
| years ago, the UCLA (University of California, Los Angeles)
| Library began reproducing digital copies of about 1,100 unique
| Syriac and Arabic manuscripts from Saint Catherine's Monastery."
| Aldipower wrote:
| Maybe libc?
| fb03 wrote:
| I know it's not productive but this was the kind of comment I
| was expecting to read, thank you.
|
| I would like to know the oldest code libraries to be reused in
| 'large scale' tho.
| jcranmer wrote:
| I don't know what you want to consider 'large scale', but
| I've definitely come across some Fortran code with dates in
| the comments from the 60s or 70s. Although the only I can
| find right now dates to 1983 (see https://github.com/nwh/luso
| l/blob/master/src/lusol_util.f#L3...).
| michaericalribo wrote:
| DNA?
| stolenmerch wrote:
| > The library (of Alexandria) flourished until the Roman conquest
| of Egypt in 30 BCE and it was burned down and thousands of
| scrolls were lost.
|
| This is just one of those legends that won't die. There was,
| indeed, an accidental fire in 48 BCE, but it didn't destroy
| everything in one cataclysmic event. The Library was in
| continuous operation and declined slowly over centuries. It's
| likely many of the scrolls were dispersed by scholars to other
| libraries.
| SeanLuke wrote:
| These were not libraries in the modern sense so much as private
| archives, owned and controlled by religious orders or royalty and
| only available to a select few.
|
| The oldest _public_ library in the world, as far as I know, is
| the Biblioteca Malatestiana, established in 1447 and owned
| collectively by the town of Cesena, Italy.
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malatestiana_Library
|
| In this image you can see the books still chained to their desks
| to prevent theft.
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malatestiana_Library#/media/Fi...
|
| EDIT: It's worth mentioning that this is _still_ Cesena 's public
| library. Here's the library's website:
| http://www.comune.cesena.fc.it/malatestiana. Check out the kid's
| section ("Ragazzi").
| lqet wrote:
| > These were not libraries in the modern sense so much as
| private archives, owned and controlled by religious orders or
| royalty and only available to a select few.
|
| Isn't this exactly the modern definition of a library?
|
| > A library is a curated collection of sources of information
| and similar resources, _selected by experts_ and made
| _accessible to a defined community_ for reference or borrowing,
| often in a quiet environment conducive to study. [0]
|
| [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Library
| chrisseaton wrote:
| > These were not libraries in the modern sense so much as
| private archives
|
| Not sure why you think 'library' implies public? It just means
| a collection of books. Many libraries today are private, owned
| by institutions, religious orders, private families,
| universities, etc. I'd guess the majority are private?
| sandworm101 wrote:
| Not all modern libraries are public. Many academic and law
| libraries are not public. So too there are internal libraries
| maintained by state organizations, mostly military, which are
| not public access. But there are all still "libraries".
| SeanLuke wrote:
| Of course. I'm just saying that while cultures have been
| cobbling together collections of stuff since time immemorial
| -- doubtless there were archives much older than these -- the
| really _interesting_ innovation didn 't occur until the
| Renaissance. Yet this article doesn't even mention it.
| michaericalribo wrote:
| That is _one_ interesting innovation, but not the _only_
| interesting innovation: centralized repos of knowledge,
| scribes used to copy and thus distribute handwritten books,
| a dedicated focus to literacy(even by just a few privileged
| individuals)...those are all fascinating.
| chrisseaton wrote:
| > Yet this article doesn't even mention it.
|
| Yes because it's specifically about the older ones, and as
| you say your innovation is from... newer ones.
| monadic3 wrote:
| Sure, private libraries are a thing. I don't understand why
| this is what you think of, though, do you not have a library
| in your city?
| riazrizvi wrote:
| If the Al-Qarawiyyin library was not able to resist Islamic
| influence, as I suspect based on extensive precedent, then the
| oldest libraries in the West are Christian or Muslim. Which I
| suspect had a large bearing on preserved history. I wonder how
| much interesting stuff was destroyed because it didn't conform to
| the party line.
| bobthechef wrote:
| Like what? And why would you suspect that? Christian apologists
| and scholars were active in debating pagans and drew from pagan
| philosophy, science, etc. And part of the job of an apologist
| is to respond to things which do not conform to what you
| cynically call the "party line". So you should expect various
| records that reflect that. There's ideas would resurface sooner
| or later.
| f154hfds wrote:
| There are good examples of the opposite too - such as Boethius,
| one of the critical links saving classical philosophy from
| oblivion on the outset of the dark ages:
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boethius#De_topicis_differenti...
| bobthechef wrote:
| Indeed, the Church is responsible for preserving many ancient
| pagan records that would otherwise have been lost with the
| fall of Rome. Islamic scholars also played a role in this
| (e.g., the surviving Aristotelian corpus).
| partiallypro wrote:
| I was hoping this would be a list of the oldest -active-
| libraries, does anyone have a list of those? This is the best I
| could find: https://alltimelists.com/10-oldest-libraries-world/
| a11r wrote:
| Since the list includes libraries not in opration any more, I was
| expecting to find the Nalanda Library there.
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nalanda#Library
| quenix wrote:
| I can't be the only one who immediately thought of libraries in
| the context of software development.
| sildur wrote:
| I was expecting jQuery.
| peter_d_sherman wrote:
| Some libraries are older than jQuery! <g>
| nickt wrote:
| We visited the Libraries in Chinguetti, Mauritania and met the
| custodian in this BBC Reel video [1]
|
| It's an amazing place. The libraries date from the late 8th
| century CE, and as you can see, the scientific works were ahead
| of their time, for the average European at least!
|
| [1] https://www.bbc.com/reel/video/p085dgnl/inside-the-
| abandoned...
|
| edit: typo
| dstola wrote:
| > After the fall of Constantinople in 1204 CE
|
| Fall of Constantinople was in the mid 15th century [1] (1453 to
| be exact), not 1204. Its unfortunate when overall informative
| articles make basic mistakes which could be easily
| verified/researched
|
| [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fall_of_Constantinople
| aardvark179 wrote:
| Constantinople was successfully besieged by the fourth crusade
| in 1204, and the subsequent sacking of the city did apparently
| result in the destruction of the library. Looking at the
| Wikipedia page for the library it looks like the phrase was
| directly copied from there. I guess the problem is
| Constantinople has fallen many times, but only Fallen once.
| teh_klev wrote:
| It was also sacked in 1204, which what the site refers to:
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sack_of_Constantinople
| dstola wrote:
| Interesting, thank you. I had no idea. Especially since it
| was done by the Christian crusaders themselves.
|
| I guess the article makes no distinction between a Sacking
| and a Fall.
| teh_klev wrote:
| Sack, Fall, Conquer, they pretty much amount to the same
| thing. Maybe the article should have used the term "Sack",
| but then if you google around it's also known as the "Fall"
| or the "Siege".
| dstola wrote:
| A sack in this case would be different because in the end
| it was still controlled by Christiandom, as opposed to
| the Fall when it switched to being controlled by the
| Ottomans. I think these small details do matter in this
| case, but maybe its just me.
| chr15p wrote:
| Before the 1204 sacking it was controlled by Greek
| speaking Eastern Orthodox christianity and afterwards it
| was rued by western catholic christians with a Latin mass
| and a pretty fundamentally different culture. Its known
| as the Latin Empire and lasted about 70 years before one
| of the surviving remnant parts of the Byzantine empire
| managed to recapture the city. So while it was not The
| Fall Of Constantinople it was certainly A fall of
| Constantinople.
| teh_klev wrote:
| Having checked various dictionaries, I'm certain it
| doesn't matter who, religion, ethnicity or race-wise, is
| on the dispensing or receiving end of a sacking, fall or
| conquer, they're pretty much the same. That said, sacking
| seems to be a specific case that involves looting and
| running off with the good stuff, i.e. plundering, which
| is one of my favourite words.
| Aperocky wrote:
| Found the Venetian shill.
|
| #remember 4th Crusade
| flohofwoe wrote:
| The 1204 "Sack of Constantinople" by Western crusaders can be
| seen as the "fall before the Fall" though.
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sack_of_Constantinople#Afterma...
| egorfine wrote:
| Before I opened the link I was fully expecting to see jQuery on
| the list.
| suprfsat wrote:
| Previous discussion:
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17141024
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(page generated 2021-01-26 23:01 UTC)