[HN Gopher] Taboola to go public at $2.6B valuation
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Taboola to go public at $2.6B valuation
        
       Author : TechBro8615
       Score  : 80 points
       Date   : 2021-01-25 14:56 UTC (8 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.axios.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.axios.com)
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | KoftaBob wrote:
       | "When the founders look back at their life and see "litter the
       | internet with garbage" as their biggest accomplishment, I wonder
       | if the money will be worth it."
        
       | erostrate wrote:
       | Taboola relies on the open web for its existence, but by
       | littering it with their garbage for a quick buck they are
       | contributing to drive people towards walled gardens. It's a self-
       | destructive company. It reminds me of this fishing technique
       | where they scrape the whole ocean floor with huge nets, slowly
       | destroying the whole ecosystem in order to get a few more low
       | quality fish.
        
       | flixic wrote:
       | Can't wait for their S-1 filing. For a business as distasteful as
       | this, there should be quite a few gems and interesting risks.
        
         | rattray wrote:
         | I don't think there will be one, since they're doing a SPAC
         | merger. They're not doing an IPO, but rather merging with an
         | empty holding company that's already done one.
        
           | perardi wrote:
           | Ahhhh, wonderful, joining the eminent, definitely not a scam
           | at all, no sir, firms like Nikola Motors.
        
           | r00fus wrote:
           | Is that a common exploit for going public?
        
             | rattray wrote:
             | Yes, increasingly so. The froth of 2020 has led to a big
             | increase in the use of SPACs, despite them previously being
             | viewed as super sketchy.
             | 
             | https://www.investopedia.com/terms/s/spac.asp
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | TedDoesntTalk wrote:
       | Does anyone on HN actually LIKE taboos/outbrain recommendations?
       | I hide them with ublock origin and completely ignore the ones
       | that slip through.
        
       | estebarb wrote:
       | For our own sanity I hope it gets shorted to zero...
        
       | shreyshrey wrote:
       | So how many will buy this stock (TBLA) thinking it is TSLA?
        
       | pradn wrote:
       | I am being harsh, but this company is the equivalent of a
       | chemical company that poisons the river. Sure, there's a benefit
       | of revenue for publishers (powering journalism and other writing
       | / photography / video), but it's so obnoxious and no where near
       | anyone's idea of a worthwhile content. It's like praising litter
       | for having been the product of a sale, benefiting whoever.
        
         | iujjkfjdkkdkf wrote:
         | I like this analogy a lot. Nature has a special place for us so
         | conservation is (mostly) obvious, including ideas like negative
         | externalities. But I agree with you that we should be thinking
         | of the online world in the same way, even if its not as
         | existential as a clean environment. Companies that profit by
         | destroying the value of the web, like Taboola and other
         | listicle or content farms should be held accountable for
         | lowering the internet's quality for everyone.
        
       | russellbeattie wrote:
       | If there is any company in the world that should be burned to the
       | ground for the sake of all humanity, Taboola is definitely one of
       | them. Outbrain is the other. I wish they had actually merged to
       | save us the time of destroying both.
       | 
       | Their product is horrible and without redemption. But let me make
       | it clear that the people that work there are also as horrible -
       | try criticizing them on Twitter and watch the bots and employees
       | attack.
       | 
       | They provide nothing of any value in any way whatsoever. It's
       | pure scam. If they disappeared tomorrow the world would literally
       | become a better place in real, measurable ways.
       | 
       | I've had a PiHole set up for years explicitly to block them. No
       | other service I can imagine is built on such lies, falsehoods,
       | deceit and fraud. They are pure garbage. Hatred doesn't even
       | begin to describe my antipathy towards them.
       | 
       | Taboola employees reading this? You're all trash.
        
         | dredmorbius wrote:
         | Taboola and Outbrain _were nearly_ the same company. A merger
         | announced in 2019 fell through. Invalidating my  "Save a match
         | with this one weird trick!" joke.
         | 
         | https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/04/business/media/online-adv...
         | 
         | (I'd not read the update in the Axios article initially,
         | apologies, and edited.)
        
           | russellbeattie wrote:
           | I had to do the same thing with my comment, actually. The
           | deal just fell apart in September apparently.
           | 
           | We'll just have to use two matches.
           | 
           | "15 ways that fire bombing trash ad companies will improve
           | our lives. Number 10 will shock you!"
        
       | BitwiseFool wrote:
       | >"Singolda tells Axios that he sees any sort of open web device,
       | whether it being a smart refrigerator or a smart TV, one day
       | being able to use Taboola's technology to power content
       | recommendations."
       | 
       | Oh god no. If chumbox advertising gets integrated into IoT
       | devices I'm getting a PiHole for my sanity.
       | 
       | >"While Taboola relies mostly on artificial intelligence to power
       | content recommendations, Singolda says the company has invested
       | in hiring over 50 full-time human moderation to ensure that every
       | piece of content on its site is approved."
       | 
       | I use uBlock Origin religiously, but from what I can tell most
       | Taboola recommendations are the same 15 or so clickbait topics
       | repeated ad infinitum. Woman mid shout, guy holding credit card,
       | lotus fruit, some weird berry that's supposed to cure something,
       | skin disorder, etc.
        
         | asiachick wrote:
         | Just don't buy IoT devices that have ads (or period)?
        
           | safog wrote:
           | It'll eventually become the default. Every single new fridge
           | will have a display. And that display will have ads.
        
             | sjg007 wrote:
             | Aftermarket in old fridge doors. Unless they put DRM in to
             | stop the compressor from running I'm not sure how they'd
             | prevent it.
        
               | elliekelly wrote:
               | My fridge uses DRM to check the filter. I'm sure they
               | won't forget the doors. And I bet they'll be attached via
               | some obscure proprietary screwdriver head that's
               | unavailable to the public.
        
             | burnte wrote:
             | My Samsung TV has built in ads, which I HATE. I want a dumb
             | TV. Apps built into TVs generally suck because to keep the
             | BOM cost down they put in the cheapest SoC that will
             | function, leaving the apps sluggish, jerky, and frequently
             | cut down in features. On my previous LG TV I couldn't turn
             | off motion smoothing on the bui8lt in video streaming apps.
             | With the Samsung TV I just don't connect it to the network
             | because there are ads that you cannot disable.
        
             | anonAndOn wrote:
             | "Kids, that ugly, old refrigerator without a screen sitting
             | in the garage is worth a lot of money and is your
             | inheritance."
        
             | ogre_codes wrote:
             | People like nice clean looking kitchens. A kitchen with a
             | display flashing crap does not fit into that.
             | 
             | I'm sure some percentage of fridges will have displays
             | flashing shitty adverts all day long, but there will be a
             | large number of fridges that are just decent looking boxes
             | with stainless, black, or white doors.
             | 
             | With TVs I'm afraid we're screwed though. Adding a brain
             | and wifi to a TV is super cheap now and manufacturers have
             | already figured out how to monetize having a smart TV in
             | your house even without advertising.
        
         | mortenjorck wrote:
         | _> If chumbox advertising gets integrated into IoT devices I 'm
         | getting a PiHole for my sanity._
         | 
         | I tend to think of something like this as more of a "move to a
         | cabin in the woods" scenario, but I suppose that could be a
         | workable compromise.
         | 
         | In all seriousness, I'm morbidly curious as to how chumbox
         | "technology" would apply to TV show and whatever kind of
         | "content" recommendations would go on a smart fridge.
         | Viscerally unsettling thumbnails that have tested for maximum
         | conversion? Perfect for the kitchen!
        
           | alexjplant wrote:
           | I thought it was an obscure regionalism for a refrigerator...
           | that definition makes far more sense grammatically.
        
         | impendia wrote:
         | It seems this is the natural endgame, every refrigerator will
         | come with an LCD screen on the front that advertises at you.
         | 
         | I just hope that my new fridge will continue to keep my food
         | cold after I smash the screen with a hammer.
        
           | RankingMember wrote:
           | My experience with modern refrigerators tells me that the
           | fridge will likely _not_ continue to keep your food cold
           | after the crappy display fails, whether by hammer or
           | otherwise.
        
           | jostmey wrote:
           | It will make people like us look crazy! People will walk into
           | our homes and see smashed and covered ad-screens
        
           | reaperducer wrote:
           | _It seems this is the natural endgame, every refrigerator
           | will come with an LCD screen on the front that advertises at
           | you._
           | 
           | Child's crayon drawing + magnet = problem solved.
        
           | dylan604 wrote:
           | The hacker part of this website would investigate taking the
           | LCD screen out, and repurposing it. We all know that DIY
           | robot that goes to the fridge to bring you a snack will need
           | some sort of LCD screen to act as an interface for you to
           | choose the snack. It's not like we're going to use an iPad
           | for that. We're too busy putting those in our cars.
        
           | thedrbrian wrote:
           | Don't do that. Use it as spare parts for a new project. When
           | the screens do come out they'll probably run some flavour of
           | android so it might be flashable.
        
           | rtkwe wrote:
           | I've just never connected my smart tv to the wifi to avoid
           | that fate.
        
           | eecc wrote:
           | Don't, they'll add some routine that makes you tap on some
           | "agree" button and shut down the whole darn thing
           | otherwise... I have an idea: under the perverse excuse of
           | delivering firmware updates for your own network safety!!!
           | 
           | Hmm, the plot of Brazil becomes every day more realistic. Ah,
           | what times were living!
        
           | umvi wrote:
           | Well hopefully we can figure out ways to integrate
           | advertising so deeply into every aspect of our lives that you
           | can no longer escape marketing with pi holes and hammers.
           | Imagine using a public urinal and you can watch an LCD screen
           | while taking care of business. Filling up your car with gas?
           | Fill your mind with ads while you do it! Imagine glasses that
           | show augmented-reality ads based on your current location and
           | what you are looking at, that would be incredible. Any place
           | people rest their eyeballs should contain ads. Digital
           | picture frames that show family photos in your home should
           | occasionally flash ads, etc. Hopefully the National Park
           | Service can install some satellite base stations so that
           | hikers and campers can get the urgent advertising they need
           | to be aware of the latest survival gear while out in nature.
           | Basically, we need to prevent people from having quiet time
           | and thinking - we need to come with as many ways as possible
           | to aggressively interrupt and intrude thoughts with gentle
           | reminders that the economy needs stimulating and that the
           | only way to truly be happy is with more stuff.
        
             | frakt0x90 wrote:
             | The urinal and gas station ones are right up the street
             | from me and I don't visit either of those facilities
             | anymore for that reason.
        
               | BitwiseFool wrote:
               | My corner gas station just rolled out new machines that
               | start playing advertisements on the LCD screens as soon
               | as the pump starts dispensing gas. It made me
               | irrationally angry. One, that I have to deal with even
               | more mental pollution in my daily life. And two, that the
               | person who created this business model realized that
               | pump-goers are quite literally a captive audience and
               | that's the best way to force someone to watch an ad.
               | 
               | I complained to the manager and I've never been back.
               | Sadly, part of me knows it's just a matter of time before
               | other gas stations gets these new machines.
        
               | ridaj wrote:
               | Better fix: switch to an EV!
        
               | masklinn wrote:
               | Now you get to listen to ads for 15mn instead if 2!
        
               | driverdan wrote:
               | Spend $40k to avoid some ads at a gas station? I hate ads
               | but come on...
               | 
               | Plus you're ignoring how privacy invasive most EVs are,
               | especially Tesla. They track everything you do.
        
               | novok wrote:
               | I'm sorry to break it to you, but most new gas cars are
               | the same. New Toyotas have it, GM has had it for quite a
               | while with OnStar, Ford probably has it, and if I
               | bothered to dig more, almost all of them have it
               | somewhere, cellular modem included.
               | 
               | It's an industry problem at this point, and I really
               | think some day we will have a mass terrorist disaster
               | where some psychotic hacker group would hack all the
               | badly secured cars everywhere, link into the CAN bus
               | (because that is a GREAT idea for some braindead
               | synergistic middle manager reasons) and cause run-away
               | accelerations simultaneously everywhere on some clock
               | script, killing millions and destroying trillions.
               | 
               | I'm 50/50 hoping someone makes a popular movie about
               | that, to scare governments world wide to force cars to
               | have a fucking no network mode and no connections to the
               | CAN bus and terrified if it would inspire said teenage
               | psychopaths to do so...
        
               | thatfrenchguy wrote:
               | Buy a Chevy Bolt or a Hyundai/Kia, pretty easy to remove
               | the modem from those.
        
               | dylan604 wrote:
               | You could stand there and be the captive audience you
               | complain about, or you could choose to do something more
               | productive with your life. Take the time it takes to fill
               | up your tank to clean the windows, check the oil level in
               | your car, check the air pressure in your tires, or just
               | inspect the tires for wear patterns, etc.
        
               | buckminster wrote:
               | Where I live you need to hold a trigger on the nozzle.
               | You can't wander off and do something else.
        
               | djrogers wrote:
               | That's what a tube of chapstick is for. My dad's been
               | doing that for >50yrs, and I have continued the tradition
               | at gas stations that remove the trigger lock.
        
               | psadauskas wrote:
               | Most of the gas pumps with ads I've seen are the kind
               | with 4 arrow buttons on either side. If you push the 2nd
               | button down on the right side, it'll mute the audio, and
               | you can go back to listening to traffic and breathing
               | fumes in peace.
               | 
               | https://imgur.com/a/D7ZIR
        
               | bilegeek wrote:
               | Unfortunately, some gas stations have already disabled
               | the mute button; in my personal experience, Speedway was
               | the first in doing that. It's only a matter of time 'til
               | all stations do that.
        
               | Scoundreller wrote:
               | Phew. The last thing I wanted to associate with the sweet
               | sweet gas fumes was an ad.
               | 
               | Let me get mildly intoxicated in relative peace, thank
               | you.
        
               | npsimons wrote:
               | > Sadly, part of me knows it's just a matter of time
               | before other gas stations gets these new machines.
               | 
               | I'm _so_ looking forward to home EV charging.
        
             | mikestew wrote:
             | _Imagine using a public urinal and you can watch an LCD
             | screen while taking care of business._
             | 
             | It's the obvious next step from existing paper ads, and I'm
             | surprised that it has taken this long.
             | 
             |  _Filling up your car with gas? Fill your mind with ads
             | while you do it!_
             | 
             | Shell was doing that 30 years ago.
             | 
             |  _Hopefully the National Park Service can install some
             | satellite base stations..._
             | 
             | Not yet, but the state of WA has already sold ad space on
             | their outdoor (camping/hiking permits and the like) web
             | sites.
             | 
             | Your dystopian future is already here.
        
               | dredmorbius wrote:
               | ThatsTheJoke.jpg
        
               | [deleted]
        
             | TedDoesntTalk wrote:
             | > Filling up your car with gas? Fill your mind with ads
             | while you do it!
             | 
             | Shell gas stations already do this where I live. There is
             | an LCD panel with blaring audio above the pumps.
             | 
             | I no longer buy Shell gas.
        
               | johnbrodie wrote:
               | Most pumps around here will mute the sound by pressing
               | the right button, second from the top, beside the screen.
               | Some pumps require a different button to mute so I just
               | spam all the buttons around the screen if at a new
               | station. They are incredibly loud and obnoxious
               | sometimes.
        
             | Gys wrote:
             | We will also have AR glasses that automatically cover all
             | screens around you with a color or your own photos.
             | 
             | Of course these glasses can be free: for the glasses to
             | project other ads on those screens ;-)
        
             | reaperducer wrote:
             | You just described the world of Max Headroom, where TVs
             | were everywhere, and having an off switch would get you
             | prison time.
        
             | reaperducer wrote:
             | _Imagine using a public urinal and you can watch an LCD
             | screen while taking care of business._
             | 
             | This exists. I've seen it in Las Vegas. There's also a
             | video screen on the faucet, and in the mirror for when you
             | wash your hands.
             | 
             |  _Filling up your car with gas? Fill your mind with ads
             | while you do it!_
             | 
             | I've also seen this. Also in Las Vegas. I remember that
             | Cheddar provided the content.
        
             | Mediterraneo10 wrote:
             | > Imagine using a public urinal and you can watch an LCD
             | screen while taking care of business.
             | 
             | Paper ads at the urinal are already common in some
             | countries, because advertisers know that you have no choice
             | but to look straight ahead. Now that you mention it, it is
             | surprising that LCDs haven't been installed yet.
        
               | mbrameld wrote:
               | I remember seeing video screens above the urinals in a
               | parking garage in Maastricht, Netherlands some time
               | between 2004 and 2006. They primarily showed ads, but
               | also had a camera pointed at you, so you'd be watching an
               | ad and then it would switch to showing your face. The
               | camera also tilted and would begin tilting down. It would
               | get your heart racing, but it only tilted down a few
               | degrees before it tilted back up so it never showed your
               | dangley bits.
        
             | DavidPeiffer wrote:
             | Fareway, a grocery store headquartered in Iowa with stores
             | in Iowa and all surrounding states except Wisconsin, has
             | tablets in the checkout queue area with a camera to show
             | ads. I'm not sure if they just use tablets as a low cost
             | device with a screen and internet connection, or if they're
             | determining demographic info from the video (and possibly
             | correlating it to transactions at the POS).
             | 
             | Regardless, it bothered me.
        
               | w1 wrote:
               | It was one of these?
               | 
               | https://getpopspots.com/
               | 
               | If they're not tracking your demographic data yet,
               | they're trying to...
        
               | monkeybutton wrote:
               | They definitely are or will be soon. From their own blog:
               | 
               | >Thanks to the computer vision technology built into
               | every one of our displays, we can track metrics
               | previously limited to online advertising. For example,
               | impressions are the standard currency for online
               | advertising, but they aren't yet the norm in the DOOH
               | industry and when they are provided they're a rough
               | estimate. Unlike most DOOH displays, Popspots displays
               | only run content when consumers are physically present,
               | which means there's a direct relation between plays and
               | impressions. Popspots displays also count the number of
               | consumers present and whether they're watching the
               | advertisement on a second-by-second basis. Using this
               | data, marketers can understand exactly how many consumers
               | they've reached and assess the effectiveness of their
               | creative.
               | 
               | https://getpopspots.com/blog/measuring-consumer-
               | engagement-i...
        
               | DavidPeiffer wrote:
               | Yes, I believe it was.
        
               | ceejayoz wrote:
               | A lot of gas stations have started doing this, as well.
               | Ads while you pump gas.
        
               | kickout wrote:
               | I'm all too familiar with Fareway. Knowing their budget
               | ethos, no way they are spending $$$ to gleen demographic
               | info.
        
               | DavidPeiffer wrote:
               | I met one of their VP's and had a good 30 minute chat
               | once. Budget ethos is definitely there. Outside of
               | advertisements during the Iowa high school Athletics
               | events, they didn't really spend on TV ads until ~2-3
               | years ago when competition with ALDI and Hy-Vee seemed to
               | dramatically increase.
               | 
               | No idea on the business model for the ad tablet system,
               | but I could see a model where they pay an amount to the
               | store on a monthly basis. Perhaps they would pay more if
               | the store would turn over transaction data, or the
               | transaction data and demographics would be traded as
               | mutually beneficial.
               | 
               | They're very much not on the cutting edge of technology.
               | I believe she said they didn't have email until ~2010.
               | Store orders were submitted via fax to their distribution
               | center.
               | 
               | In some ways they're saving money (only looking at mature
               | options in the market and absolutely avoiding snake oil
               | salesmen), but even an Excel based ordering system on a
               | dialup connection would have been a major labor savings
               | for 2000-2010 compared to faxes.
        
             | ChrisRR wrote:
             | I don't know if it's just a UK thing, but we already have
             | screen showing ads at many of our petrol pumps
        
             | mschuster91 wrote:
             | > Imagine using a public urinal and you can watch an LCD
             | screen while taking care of business.
             | 
             | Munich Mathaser cinema already has this, there's an LCD
             | screen embedded into the urinal.
        
               | BitwiseFool wrote:
               | Let's just say that if I were on a jury looking to
               | convict someone who vandalized these screens I'd ignore
               | all the evidence and let them go scot-free.
        
               | blacksmith_tb wrote:
               | Hard not to suspect that a giant display + embedded PC
               | would also have a camera... "it was for eye-tracking,
               | honest!"
        
             | rorykoehler wrote:
             | You joke but I can see the hiker thing with one click
             | purchase and instant drone delivery becoming a popular
             | service. You won't even have to prepare or carry anything
             | with you to go into the wild.
        
             | tremon wrote:
             | _Filling up your car with gas? Fill your mind with ads
             | while you do it!_
             | 
             | That future is now, and has been for many years in NL. The
             | logical next step is personalized ads based on the number
             | plate.
        
             | GrinningFool wrote:
             | A few years ago Delta started force-feeding adverts to me
             | pre-takeoff on the seatback screens. Pressing the off
             | button turned it off for a moment, then it turned back on
             | to continue the advert.
             | 
             | That happened once, I haven't flown with them since. I
             | don't look forward for the day when I will no longer have
             | that option.
        
             | thatfrenchguy wrote:
             | > Filling up your car with gas? Fill your mind with ads
             | while you do it!
             | 
             | This exists in the United States. Good thing EVs don't have
             | this problem.
        
               | maest wrote:
               | I was shocked to see ads at gas stations and in cabs in
               | the US. Truly dystopian.
        
             | npsimons wrote:
             | You sir, more than my introversion and social anxiety, more
             | than COVID-19, have convinced me I should never leave my
             | house again. Ever.
        
         | perardi wrote:
         | The day my god-forsaken fridge presents me with a Taboola
         | chumbox is the day I go full Amish and retire to a hut on my
         | farmland in southern Illinois.
        
         | ChrisRR wrote:
         | Who the hell would want clickbait ads streamed to their fridge?
         | This is awful idea
         | 
         | We're inching closer to the episode of Black Mirror where
         | everyone is forced to stare at ads all day
        
         | m4tthumphrey wrote:
         | One step closer to 15 million merits [0]
         | 
         | [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fifteen_Million_Merits
        
         | ocdtrekkie wrote:
         | The ad industry is prepared for this. DNS-over-HTTPS will
         | ignore your PiHole, and lovingly bring you ads anyways. While
         | you can turn DoH off in your browser, your IoT device will not
         | be so configurable. And will most likely fail to work entirely
         | if you block access to Google's DoH endpoint.
         | 
         | DoH is an incredibly user hostile technology designed to remove
         | your agency to control your network traffic, and by and large,
         | the majority of tech enthusiasts have _cheered for it_.
        
           | tomjen3 wrote:
           | DoH removes the agency of the _network provider_. This is
           | great if you can 't trust the network.
           | 
           | If I used my ISPs DNS resolver it wouldn't allow me to access
           | sci-hub. I can trivially use Googles DNS, but if that where
           | to change DoH would save me.
           | 
           | The other problem is solvable by not buying an IOT device
           | with a screen. I can't buy a dumb TV, but I do okay with my
           | current one and my computer monitor.
        
           | flyinghamster wrote:
           | > DoH is an incredibly user hostile technology designed to
           | remove your agency to control your network traffic
           | 
           | I view it as more of a double-edged sword. It can be very
           | handy if you have a hostile ISP playing shenanigans with DNS
           | or logging your queries and selling the data, but as you
           | point out, it's also useful for bad actors as well.
        
           | burnte wrote:
           | 1. DoH is a user configurable setting, it cannot be dictated
           | by ad vendors or websites.
           | 
           | 2. DoH fails back to standard DNS.
           | 
           | 3. DoH is hard to filter, just like other TLS encrypted
           | traffic.
           | 
           | 4. DoH is a user FRIENDLY technology meant to increase user
           | privacy and reduce DNS hijacking.
           | 
           | 5. Don't like it? Turn it off. Only you have that power to
           | enable or disable it.
        
             | dredmorbius wrote:
             | DoH can be enforced by user-hostile devices and
             | applications.
             | 
             | Including Internet-of-shit infested appliances and devices.
             | 
             | With 5G SIMS embedded and financed at rock-bottom mass-
             | contract data-dribble rates via advertising, other revenue
             | flow, or up-front / ongoing purchase revenue streams, WiFi
             | LAN egress controls --- PiHole or other DNS blocklists, or
             | IP and protocol firewalls --- simply won't be effective.
        
             | ohazi wrote:
             | You're confusing DoH in "friendly" browsers like Firefox,
             | where you and I might deliberately turn it on to thwart ISP
             | shenanigans. In that case, it's good that DoH is hard to
             | filter and looks like all other TLS traffic.
             | 
             | But the parent is correctly describing DoH as a double-
             | edged sword. The same properties that make it good for you
             | and me when trying to safely access domain data make it a
             | weapon for rogue IoT devices who want to do the same.
             | 
             | Your smart fridge could easily include software that allows
             | it to acquire _its own_ secure DNS info from a DoH network
             | run by the smart fridge manufacturer. This would allow them
             | to find the domains behind the chumbox ads that they want
             | to show you in spite of your PiHole. Since the manufacturer
             | would be doing this to get around a user 's desired network
             | configuration, it'll be configurable for _them_ , not for
             | _you_. You will not be the  "owner" of this device.
        
           | ryandrake wrote:
           | It'll be an arms race. DNS-based blackholes would give way to
           | IP-by-IP firewall rules.
           | 
           | I remember when personal firewalls were mostly about blocking
           | threats coming in through _incoming_ connections. Now, I use
           | mine more to block threats already on my network from
           | exfiltrating through _outgoing_ connections.
        
         | user22 wrote:
         | FYI: pihole does not block taboola ads because they are not
         | served from a separate network that can be filtered.
         | 
         | You need to use a non-dns method of filtering them out
        
           | manigandham wrote:
           | The vast majority of these ads are rendered by JS from a
           | third-party domain so they can be filtered out easily with
           | DNS.
        
           | hasperdi wrote:
           | Oh yeah for sure you can block it using PiHole. Just add
           | (^|\\.)taboola\\.com$ to your blacklist.
           | 
           | Bonus: add (^|\\.)outbrain\\.com$ too while you're at it.
        
             | NortySpock wrote:
             | Thanks for the reminder, just added it to my house-wide
             | blocklist.
        
         | 650REDHAIR wrote:
         | I bought a Pi Zero W awhile back and it sat in my desk for like
         | a year. While going through my desk about a month ago I decided
         | to take 10 minutes to set it up and regret not doing it sooner!
         | The little thing is pretty amazing. I've since moved the Pi
         | Zero W to my travel bag paired with my travel modem and
         | upgraded to a regular Pi at home!
        
       | samdung wrote:
       | an interesting reading on the economics of chumbox ads:
       | https://themargins.substack.com/p/taboola-outbrain-and-the-c...
        
         | rattray wrote:
         | This was interesting, but didn't go deep enough - where do all
         | these ads ultimately lead to $$ transactions? Do they only end
         | up selling legit products that are advertised non-
         | manipulatively, like the hearing aids?
        
       | whoisjuan wrote:
       | "5 signs that you're about to have stroke"... Shows a photo of
       | something common like someone scratching their arm.
       | 
       | Taboola is the lowest of the lowest when it comes to advertising.
       | 100% pure trash.
        
       | youngtaff wrote:
       | $2.6B worth of shite...
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | gundmc wrote:
       | It's not an exaggeration to say that my opinion of a site drops
       | dramatically when I see a trashy Tabula feed. I'm looking at you,
       | Fivethirtyeight.
        
       | jyriand wrote:
       | Are SPAC's some kind of new financial inventions? I see this term
       | popping up quite frequently.
        
         | loganfrederick wrote:
         | https://www.forbes.com/sites/antoinegara/2020/11/19/the-loom...
        
         | JumpCrisscross wrote:
         | > _Are SPAC 's some kind of new financial inventions?_
         | 
         | Relatively recent, yes. Special purpose acquisition companies
         | (SPACs) are a re-branding and evolution of the 1980s' blank
         | cheque companies [1].
         | 
         | [1]
         | https://openscholarship.wustl.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?articl...
        
       | guyzero wrote:
       | People complain about Google but Taboola is a hundred times more
       | toxic with their garbage ads cluttering up the bottom half of so
       | many media sites' pages. Being shown the same ad for shoes a
       | hundred times the day after I bought them is nothing next to
       | shock-image ads into content farms.
        
       | Mc_Big_G wrote:
       | Proving yet again that anyone can get rich as long as they don't
       | have any morals.
        
       | projektfu wrote:
       | I still don't understand why publishers use these ads. At best
       | they annoy your readers. At worst people leave your site and give
       | revenue or eyeballs somewhere else. Since publishers are in the
       | impression business, shouldn't they be selling ads that make
       | revenue by impression instead of by click? My dream is for
       | publishers to wise up suddenly, leaving Taboola and its
       | underwriters holding the bag.
        
         | ogre_codes wrote:
         | At best someone accidentally clicks on one of the little
         | adverts and you earn $0.01. On a busy site, accidental clicks
         | alone have to earn a few dollars a day.
        
           | ceejayoz wrote:
           | At the risk of your site's reputation, of course.
        
         | celestialcheese wrote:
         | For big sites, you can negotiate 80% revshare + guaranteed
         | minimums. This is huge for smoothing out cash-flow in low CPM
         | quarters and is one of the most valuable ad slots available to
         | pubs
        
       | schwinn140 wrote:
       | Taboola, Outbrain, et al are the bottom of the barrel as it
       | relates to the space of monetized and amplified content
       | recommendations.
       | 
       | Literal clickbait designed to pray on the poorly informed.
       | 
       | From an advertising perspective, their targeting "AI" is
       | nonsense.
       | 
       | The fact that they are cashing out isn't upsetting. The fact that
       | countless, I would assume tens of millions of users, have been
       | duped to click on this drudge is most disheartening.
        
         | tartoran wrote:
         | Honestly I'd be embarrassed if I were an engineer working for
         | taboola/outbrain. It's a job yes, but I wouldn't advertise it
         | to my friends at all.
        
         | [deleted]
        
       | whalesalad wrote:
       | It is remarkable to me that a company that produces so little
       | value to the consumer is worth SO much. There is a LOT of cash to
       | be made in the dark-pattern cracks of society.
        
         | r00fus wrote:
         | Possibly because digital policy doesn't seem to move quickly in
         | the US. Taboola only exists because we don't have effective
         | consumer policy and that's because we have a dysfunctional
         | political system.
        
       | JohnJamesRambo wrote:
       | If I had a top 5 list for who killed the internet I loved, this
       | would be on it.
        
       | bserge wrote:
       | > the company has invested in hiring over 50 full-time human
       | moderation
       | 
       | I just can't help but laugh at this. Over 50 people, so likely
       | under 60. For a company serving 500 million daily active users
       | and 1 trillion aids/month...
       | 
       | Just comedy gold.
       | 
       | And these people are on minimum wage, and we don't even know in
       | what country. Churn rate ~90%/month. But that's just a side joke.
       | 
       |  _This_ is what people value, middlemen trading trash for cash.
       | 
       | $2.6 billion, fuck my whole life.
        
       | KoftaBob wrote:
       | Taboola and Outbrain are both purveyors of absolute garbage
       | clickbait ads of the lowest quality.
       | 
       | The founders of those two companies are the modern day version of
       | snake oil salesmen, and they know it. They probably don't care,
       | since they're clearly motivated purely by greed, not by any sense
       | of pride in what they're building.
       | 
       | I don't normally have opinions this strong about a company, but
       | man do they take pride in insulting the intelligence of every
       | user who sees their ads.
        
       | tylerrobinson wrote:
       | > A chumbox or chumbucket is a form of online advertising that
       | uses a grid of thumbnails and captions to drive traffic to other
       | sites and webpages. This form of advertising is often associated
       | with low quality "clickbait" links and articles. The term derives
       | from the fishing practice of "chumming", the use of fish meat as
       | a lure for fish.
       | 
       | https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chumbox
       | 
       | This word is used in the article and while I'm quite familiar
       | with the thing, I didn't know it had a name. Very fitting for the
       | low-quality content that it contains!
        
       | u678u wrote:
       | I hate these ads as much as anyone else, but realistically these
       | are one of the main competitors we're relying on to keep the web
       | open and away from Google and Facebook right?
        
         | ev1 wrote:
         | They are arguably worse, more violating than both of those, and
         | exclusively serve malware or fraud/unwanted porn/gore.
         | 
         | At least I get actual brands on Google or Facebook, Taboola has
         | absolutely nothing other than literal spam.
        
         | ChrisRR wrote:
         | Do you want a giant douche or a turd sandwich?
        
         | manuelabeledo wrote:
         | While competition is good, do we really want this kind of
         | competition?
         | 
         | Google ads became popular precisely because they were light and
         | non invasive. These quite aggressively take a chunk of the
         | screen real estate, and sometimes are very disruptive, e.g.
         | when they put them between articles and comments.
        
           | 55555 wrote:
           | No they became popular because they paid publishers better
           | because they had more data for targeting.
        
       | rattray wrote:
       | It seems to me that services like Taboola are something like
       | manipulation-laundering services, providing enough room between
       | deception and a product sold to circumvent the FTC's truth in
       | advertising rules.
       | 
       | Could someone with more knowledge comment - is that at all right?
       | Is there more to it? Could rule tweaks at the FTC have an impact
       | on this?
        
       | stewx wrote:
       | Nice guys finish last.
        
       | IG_Semmelweiss wrote:
       | I don't see taboola chumboxes with ublock on the "block all"
       | setting, with FF, and gradually allow JS elements if needed. I
       | used to like doing this with NoScript.
       | 
       | Sometimes I have to change browser for banking or specific
       | shopping, and I have separate (non uBlock) browsers that i use
       | strictly for work.
       | 
       | Reading the high level dislike of taboola, I wonder what is
       | preventing people from using uBlock to zap Taboola?
        
         | gorhill wrote:
         | Taboola is blocked by default in uBlock Origin.
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | arcturus17 wrote:
       | Taboola and Outbrain have disgusting products. Their
       | recommendations lead to content that is sketchy at best, and
       | their business model is to pry on the unsuspecting at scale. I
       | would say there is no harm done in wasting people's time here and
       | there, but I bet they're hyper-agressive in data collection and
       | privacy violations.
       | 
       | These types of companies are the very definition of extractive
       | elite: they provide close to nothing of value and yet soak up a
       | bunch of profits in the hands of a few.
       | 
       | I'd be happy to hear someone refute my claims, especially the
       | latter.
        
         | sjg007 wrote:
         | I don't know how they make money...
        
           | ceejayoz wrote:
           | They embed their ads on news sites, style them to look like
           | legitimate articles, and prey on the vulnerable. Same
           | methodology as the "your Social Security number has been
           | suspended" scam calls.
        
             | tartoran wrote:
             | Who pays to have their ads displayed by a chumbox? Probably
             | smaller players but I can't imagine a reputable company to
             | post ads in that toxic environment, it really does look
             | bad.
        
               | joering2 wrote:
               | Smaller players? I know a "small" biz that does $45,000 a
               | day with Taboola. They do it because sadly their scammy
               | ads work on vulnerable population.
        
               | graaben wrote:
               | Ad arbitrage - essentially buy a click on Taboola for
               | $0.20 and send the user to your sham website that
               | displays ads from a separate network (Ad sense, Facebook,
               | or one of the seedier options) and hope you get that user
               | to click an ad that pays you $0.22. Make a little bit of
               | money while making the world a little bit worse.
        
               | dredmorbius wrote:
               | Major new sites, mostly magazine publishers, were doing
               | this. Washington Post, TIME, Newsweek, and CNN as I
               | recall. Five-thirt-eight according to comments here. Some
               | may have dropped them by now, many were discussing this
               | as negative brand value within recent years.
               | 
               | Previous discussion:
               | 
               | https://themargins.substack.com/p/taboola-outbrain-and-
               | the-c... (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20409693)
               | 
               | https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/04/business/media/online-
               | adv... (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21175145)
        
               | ceejayoz wrote:
               | They're talking about the other end of things - the
               | companies placing ads, not the ones hosting them.
               | 
               | The answer is "sleazy bottomfeeders", if the Taboola ads
               | I've seen are any indication. Supplements, worthless
               | insurance, colon cleansers, and the like.
        
               | tartoran wrote:
               | That is correct. I've seen tabula/outbrain around on
               | cnn/bbc/time etc until I blocked it and am aware that
               | these publishers make use of taboola/outbrain for
               | revenue. However, I was wondering what company puts the
               | actual advert through these deceptive bottomfeeders.
        
               | dredmorbius wrote:
               | Ah, got it.
        
         | dumpHero2 wrote:
         | If you see sketchy ads on a website that's not supposed to be
         | sketchy. Its probably taboola or outbrain. They often use near
         | NSFW images (sexual & gore) in their click baits. I remember a
         | few years ago, they'd also install malware on your system to
         | change the default search engine to a Google lookalike. There
         | were numerous articles online on "how to remove taboola
         | malware".
         | 
         | This company should be sued to death instead of going public.
         | Our slow to catch up legislation is to blame.
        
           | joering2 wrote:
           | I couldn't upvote this enough. But if you know Adam a little
           | bit as I do, you would know he is a perfect fit for a slimy
           | garbage Taboola and Outbrain are delivering. Its not a
           | surprise really. And mostly its snake oils sales crap that
           | eventually should be outright banned.
        
             | BitwiseFool wrote:
             | I'm intrigued, can you tell us more?
        
       | alibrarydweller wrote:
       | In case it's not obvious, Taboola hasn't been making money by
       | connecting people to content they want to read, but rather by
       | selling passive tracking data.
       | 
       | If a browser goes to ten sites which have Taboola boxes on them,
       | then Taboola can sell the history of that cookie and its browsing
       | history to a targeting company. If the targeting company has a
       | cookie of its own in the same place as a chumbox then the company
       | is able to map everything Taboola knows to everything they know.
       | 
       | Given the efforts of Apple, Google and Mozilla to choke off this
       | type of tech (third party cookie tracking) it's interesting their
       | valuation is this high. I guess they can still make much of
       | counting anonymous visits and mapping them back to IPs for sale.
        
         | lopatin wrote:
         | Not that they don't do this but I'm not sure selling data is
         | their main source of money. I think their ad placements are
         | actually that valuable. Click-bait sells extremely well when
         | it's manipulative enough and displayed to a wealthy
         | demographic. About 10 years ago you would pay $.1 to $1 for a
         | click from a soccer mom on Fox News. That's not search ads,
         | that $1 per non-targeted display ad click. Which was insane
         | back then, not sure now. I've also not touched ads for a decade
         | so maybe I'm just behind the times.
         | 
         | Edit: I actually credit Taboola and Outbrain with being the
         | enablers of actual "fake news". There was a time when you could
         | make a landing page that looks like the NYT, put an
         | "advertisement" disclaimer in gray letters and 9pt font
         | somewhere, and blast it on Taboola so people buy your
         | supplements. Taboola was fully aware, just loved the money too
         | much.
        
       | 55555 wrote:
       | Pump your stock price with this one weird trick (Hint: it's
       | lying).
       | 
       | > He says the company's main competition is "anyone in business
       | of offering software revenue tools to publishers," including CMS
       | providers, email servers, etc.
       | 
       | > Singolda tells Axios that he sees any sort of open web device,
       | whether it being a smart refrigerator or a smart TV, one day
       | being able to use Taboola's technology to power content
       | recommendations.
       | 
       | > Taboola relies mostly on artificial intelligence to power
       | content recommendations
        
         | finiteloops wrote:
         | Fairly certain the "artificial intelligence" they're describing
         | are the rotten brains of anyone who works for that company.
        
           | ourcat wrote:
           | I'd say it's more like they're getting search data from
           | Google.
           | 
           | eg: I search on some medical condition (which I might or
           | might not have) and the next thing I know, all Taboola
           | 'chumbox' blocks are littered with 'ads' (which aren't ads
           | that 'sell' anything) about said condition. Just extremely
           | low quality links with zero value.
        
             | gundmc wrote:
             | That is not how Google works.
        
               | ourcat wrote:
               | Maybe I should have said 'via' Google.
        
             | creato wrote:
             | It would be pretty shocking if Google were sharing search
             | data with anyone, let alone Taboola.
             | 
             | Others in this thread mentioned that Taboola used to have
             | literal malware that would replace Google with a google-
             | lookalike. Maybe you have that malware?
        
       | fooblat wrote:
       | Taboola, Zergnet, Outbrain, and the like are half the reason I
       | run a pihole. These companies and their ilk promote the worst of
       | the worst of clickbait.
        
       | llacb47 wrote:
       | You won't believe what this adtech clickfarm was valued at! The
       | results will shock you!
        
         | da_big_ghey wrote:
         | Money managers hate him! This guy invested in the Taboola IPO
         | and you won't believe what happened next!
        
       | yalogin wrote:
       | Oh wow didn't know this is the company behind those annoying ads.
       | On some sites, fivethirtyeight, its a infinite scroll list too.
       | The worst thing I ever encountered. May be they fixed it now but
       | it forced me to actually sign up for a fake email account and
       | send an email to their staff about it.
       | 
       | Its amazing that they are worth 2.4B dollars though. I get it
       | that its used on almost every site but still seems a lot. Our
       | estimates of value have been severely distorted by the last year.
       | Not sure if things will ever go down or if its the new normal.
        
       ___________________________________________________________________
       (page generated 2021-01-25 23:02 UTC)