[HN Gopher] Firefox Relay
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Firefox Relay
        
       Author : charlieirish
       Score  : 284 points
       Date   : 2021-01-25 14:44 UTC (8 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (relay.firefox.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (relay.firefox.com)
        
       | jannes wrote:
       | Here is the list of permission the extension requires:
       | 
       | - Access your data for all web sites
       | 
       | If even the browser vendor can't do better than requesting access
       | to everything I'm not surprised that we end up with extensions
       | being sold and abused (for their permissions).
        
         | groovecoder wrote:
         | (Relay tech lead here)
         | 
         | Yeah, the all_urls add-ons are always concerning. We have an
         | issue filed to move that to optional_permissions instead, but
         | need to get the UX right:
         | 
         | https://github.com/mozilla/fx-private-relay/issues/252
        
         | jpalomaki wrote:
         | I would like to see these extensions only activating when I
         | click them on toolbar.
         | 
         | Most extensions I could consider are only needed for few pages.
        
       | r2b2 wrote:
       | I built Owl Mail [https://owlmail.io] to solve this same problem.
       | I think you will find Owl Mail a fast, easy to use, and overall
       | delightful alternative to FF relay.
       | 
       | Congrats to FF Relay - more products in this space will be a win
       | for better privacy online :)
        
       | imrankhan17 wrote:
       | So this is like a VPN but for email?
        
       | gspr wrote:
       | That's nice and convenient, Mozilla, but _Firefox the browser_ is
       | an essential piece of software at this point. How about focusing
       | your precious cash on that?
        
         | nexthash wrote:
         | Essential, but maintaining a browser in the face of enormous
         | competition from Google and Microsoft is tough. If you support
         | Firefox with these new endeavors, you are helping preserve the
         | browser as well. Since times are changing, Mozilla must either
         | adapt or be out-competed.
        
           | gspr wrote:
           | How, exactly?
           | 
           | I'm happy to donate to Mozilla. If the money is spent on FF.
        
       | devj wrote:
       | Since Firefox has partnered with Amazon(SES) to filter spam, does
       | it mean that Amazon can read our emails too?
        
         | groovecoder wrote:
         | (Relay tech lead here)
         | 
         | It's in the privacy policy (https://www.mozilla.org/en-
         | US/privacy/firefox-relay/), but yes - the emails are sent thru
         | Amazon SES in plaintext.
         | 
         | We have kicked around the idea of enabling + preserving E2EE
         | emails thru Relay, but ... it's tricky.
         | 
         | https://github.com/mozilla/fx-private-relay/issues/360
        
       | dastx wrote:
       | Is this something similar to https://simplelogin.io/? If it is,
       | simplelogin is a self-hostable solution. If you're really worried
       | about privacy, this would cut out the possibility that Mozilla
       | might be reading your messages.
        
       | sacred-rat wrote:
       | I have been using AnonAddy[0] for this, with great results. I
       | initially used Firefox Relay, but switched to get more than 5
       | aliases. AnonAddy also recently added support for replies.
       | 
       | [0] https://anonaddy.com/
        
         | decrypt wrote:
         | I thought support for replies was available for a long time.
         | Happy SimpleLogin [1] customer here, which has a pricing
         | similar to that of AnonAddy's highest tier.
         | 
         | [1] https://simplelogin.io
        
           | pj1115 wrote:
           | This looks great. What I couldn't easily find for any of
           | these services was a comparison with just using a catch-all
           | address. I already have that in place. What sold SimpleLogin
           | and AnonAddy for you?
        
           | sacred-rat wrote:
           | Looks like it came out Feb last year[0], so it has been out
           | for awhile. I just learned about it recently.
           | 
           | [0] https://anonaddy.com/blog/sending-email-from-an-alias-
           | and-up...
        
         | 6ak74rfy wrote:
         | Seconding the recommendation.
         | 
         | One of the best things about AnonAddy is that it allows you to
         | create aliases on the fly. So, I hardly even need to visit
         | their website, browser extension or anything.
        
       | cimnine wrote:
       | Cool, the source is available: https://github.com/mozilla/fx-
       | private-relay
       | 
       | Edit: I've previously claimed it to be open source. But there's
       | no License currently that would indicate that.
        
         | vaduz wrote:
         | Source available, at best, not open source. Licence is missing
         | in both the code and in the terms page [0] unless I am going
         | blind.
         | 
         | Edit: if I am going blind, I am not the only one [1]
         | 
         | [0] https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/about/legal/terms/firefox-
         | rela... [1] https://github.com/mozilla/fx-private-
         | relay/issues/773
        
           | cimnine wrote:
           | You're right. I've updated my comment accordingly.
        
           | Macha wrote:
           | package.json lists it as MPL at least:
           | https://github.com/mozilla/fx-private-
           | relay/blob/18d491db346...
           | 
           | Hopefully they make it clearer
        
         | groovecoder wrote:
         | (Relay tech lead)
         | 
         | Oops, thanks for catching that. We'll add a LICENSE file.
        
       | yumraj wrote:
       | Why can't Mozilla launch a freemium email service is beyond me.
       | 
       | Free email with Firefox domain. Paid with custom domain.
        
         | nexthash wrote:
         | This is most likely due to the enormous capital needed to start
         | such a service. I suspect if they were successful it would be
         | all-paid at first.
        
           | yumraj wrote:
           | I'll pay Mozilla and based on prior discussion on HN, I'm
           | sure a lot of people will pay Mozilla for a paid email
           | service just because of their reputation.
        
         | seqizz wrote:
         | From wikipedia:
         | 
         | > In 2006, the Mozilla Corporation generated $66.8 million in
         | revenue and $19.8 million in expenses, with 85% of that revenue
         | coming from Google for "assigning [Google] as the browser's
         | default search engine, and for click-throughs on ads placed on
         | the ensuing search results pages."
         | 
         | I don't think Google would like it.
        
       | Bishonen88 wrote:
       | And what happens when FireFox decides to drop this option 1-2
       | years into the future? I reckon they'll give time to change the
       | email address on all the pages one used it for, but still...
       | 
       | nvm, it's in the FAQ:
       | 
       | "What happens if Mozilla shuts down the Firefox Relay service?
       | 
       | We will give you advance notice that you need to change the email
       | address of any accounts that are using Relay aliases."
       | 
       | Note that one cannot reply using this service (yet). So the whole
       | anonymity is gone as soon as one wants to contact some service
       | without disclosing the real address (?)
        
         | megous wrote:
         | You usually don't need the address you registered some account
         | with to change account email to something else.
         | 
         | Services usually just verify you control the new email address.
        
         | maxrovertsb wrote:
         | It's nice that they are being transparent about it.
        
         | m-p-3 wrote:
         | > And what happens when FireFox decides to drop this option 1-2
         | years into the future?
         | 
         | The same thing if any other company did it. That said, I do
         | hope they'll offer an option to pay for more email relays which
         | could also ensure its viability. Having 5 relays for free is
         | nice, but I'd personally use a unique address per service.
        
         | groovecoder wrote:
         | Howdy. I'm the tech lead on Relay. We're working on replies
         | right now:
         | 
         | https://github.com/mozilla/fx-private-relay/pull/770
        
           | lecarore wrote:
           | While you're here, can you test the relay dashboard (where
           | you can create aliases) on Firefox for Android 84.1.4 ? The
           | scroll is incredibly sluggish, I don't know what scroll
           | effect you added but please have a look. It's a bit
           | unfortunate for a Mozilla service ^^ I can provide you a
           | screen capture if needed.
        
         | mk89 wrote:
         | Just a proper email provider that offers this features.
         | Fastmail, GMX, ...
        
         | eloisant wrote:
         | I'm probably going to use it for "throw-away" email. As in, I
         | just need to receive a link right now so the service think they
         | have my real address, after that the alias might as well be
         | trashed.
         | 
         | The only thing I'm worried is that this domain will soon be
         | blacklisted by services (especially those I don't want to give
         | my email address to).
        
           | josepmdc wrote:
           | For that use case you can just use a temporary email provider
           | like temp-mail.org which are harder to blacklist since they
           | have a lot of random domains.
        
             | SamuelAdams wrote:
             | Yep I often use "ten minute mail" for this too.
        
         | tyingq wrote:
         | I do miss Firefox Send.
        
           | lights0123 wrote:
           | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25524472 is certainly
           | not a complete replacement, but most of the time I used it
           | locally so that would work.
        
           | decrypt wrote:
           | Same. I have been using Tresorit Send [1] and Visee's
           | (developer of ffsend CLI tool) Firefox Send instance [2] in
           | the meantime. Visee is also looking for donations [3] to
           | support hosting of that instance.
           | 
           | [1] https://send.tresorit.com
           | 
           | [2] https://send.visee.com
           | 
           | [3] https://gitlab.com/timvisee/ffsend/-/issues/100#note_3763
           | 163...
        
       | jwineinger wrote:
       | > Firefox Relay supports email forwarding (including attachments)
       | of email up to 150KB in size
       | 
       | > Any emails larger than 150KB will not be forwarded.
       | 
       | I'm not sure what to think of the size limitation. I wonder what
       | percentage of emails are under that.
        
         | tandr wrote:
         | They probably going to remove this restriction as part of
         | payable services.
        
       | allendoerfer wrote:
       | Will be added to the list of domains people cannot use to sign up
       | for accounts. In my experience, this only works on small sites.
        
         | asiachick wrote:
         | Agreed. Sites will just say, "relay.firefox.com" email address
         | are not allowed. By definition they know it's not your real
         | email address
        
         | cmeacham98 wrote:
         | In my experience it is the other way around.
         | 
         | Big name websites generally have enough users that email "just
         | works". Smaller websites are more likely to use misguided
         | measures such as a bad email validating regex (hello to anyone
         | with a non-standard TLD!), only allowing gmail, or blacklisting
         | domains like these.
        
           | tutfbhuf wrote:
           | One time email domains and email forward services are usually
           | blocked, there are very long block lists for such domains.
           | 
           | From my personal experience it is best to have a secondary
           | email account on a provider that is usually not blocked (like
           | gmail), to keep your primary email account clean.
        
           | throwaway123x2 wrote:
           | I have a .family TLD as my primary address that gets refused
           | because of bad regex half the time and consigned to spam the
           | other half :(
        
           | martin_a wrote:
           | > use misguided measures such as a bad email validating regex
           | 
           | Ever heard of Magento? They have that built in, at least in
           | version 1. But it's a fixed list with "valid TLDs", anything
           | not on that is not accepted when registering.
           | 
           | Feels strange, when you can't register on your own shop...
        
             | organsnyder wrote:
             | I use a .dev domain for my main email address, and I
             | occasionally encounter sites that don't accept it as valid.
             | Even worse, sometimes I could create an account but then
             | something would be broken, such as when I could log in to
             | Best Buy via their mobile app, but not their website (or
             | vice-versa--I can't remember for sure). I'm assuming I get
             | hit both by incomplete whitelists and ill-advised
             | blacklists.
        
           | lxgr wrote:
           | +1, and ironically I remember seeing both "must use Gmail"
           | and "must not use Gmail" in the past...
           | 
           | The only correct to validate email addresses is to just send
           | a message there and see if the user can click the
           | confirmation link.
           | 
           | Chances are that would be the next step in any signup flow
           | anyway, so why introduce this artificial middle step of
           | "validating the email address"?
        
         | lxgr wrote:
         | I've always been extremely annoyed by these attempts to "detect
         | fake email addresses/accounts".
         | 
         | People can have more than one email address, so if your goal is
         | "one account/offer/trial membership per real person", email
         | ain't the way to achieve that, period.
         | 
         | Even worse are sites that disallow registering via "freemail
         | providers" and require you to "use your ISPs or employer's".
         | (Haven't seen this one in a while, but it definitely used to be
         | a thing.)
        
           | notsureaboutpg wrote:
           | The goal isn't to have one account/offer/trial per person,
           | the goal is to ward off bots and spammers who are going to
           | misuse your service. Since they know they are doing that and
           | they know they could be held liable for what they do, they
           | use sketchy disposable email addresses.
           | 
           | My sites and apps have a blacklist and we don't allow email
           | accounts from those. It's just me running this thing. If I
           | had the security and engineering workforce of even a mid-
           | sized tech company, I wouldn't have to do this. Alas.
        
         | r2b2 wrote:
         | Only if Firefox makes it easy and free to create unlimited
         | addresses and/or disposable address.
         | 
         | I use owlmail.io for hundreds of accounts (major sites
         | included) and haven't had an issue.
        
       | SV_BubbleTime wrote:
       | I like the idea. But relay.firefox.com could have been shorter, I
       | suppose it doesn't matter here because the extension is supposed
       | to roll you a new one and paste it in. But I'd like a service
       | with a shorter domain for reading to people over the phone or at
       | a store, double especially when it's a throwaway anyhow.
        
         | r2b2 wrote:
         | If domain succinctness is your dream, have a gander at Owl Mail
         | [https://owlmail.io].
        
         | remram wrote:
         | In particular, the two dots after the @ are probably going to
         | be blocked by many validation regexes.
        
       | m_st wrote:
       | Good luck when this service goes down. But otherwise: Sounds
       | great!
       | 
       | Questions:
       | 
       | 1. Is this new?
       | 
       | 2. Why just 5 relays? How can I get more?
       | 
       | 3. Is something like that available from 1Password? Would be a
       | great addition.
        
         | decrypt wrote:
         | 1. No, been around for over six months. Possibly longer, but I
         | got access sometime between June and August.
         | 
         | 2. That may be a good questions for developers at #firefox-
         | relay:mozilla.org (Matrix room)
         | 
         | 3. It has come up in a few tweets in the past, but 1Password
         | does not seem to have any plans for now. I use SimpleLogin
         | browser extensions, and 1Password neatly picks up that alias
         | address from my signup form.
        
         | r2b2 wrote:
         | Might be worth checking out Owl Mail [https://owlmail.io].
         | 
         | A few bonuses:
         | 
         | * Larger attachments, 5MB + some wiggle room depending on the
         | message size.
         | 
         | * Replies (single and multi-party) in beta.
         | 
         | * More addresses (a generous free tier, paid plans on the way).
         | 
         | * Fast and simple UI.
        
       | thecrumb wrote:
       | Firefox is a bit like Google. They roll these out and then a year
       | later they kill them. Looking at you Firefox send. So I'll pass.
        
         | nexthash wrote:
         | To be fair to Firefox, the only reason there is such a high
         | rate of churn with their services is that they are trying to
         | preserve their mission in the face of competition with Big Tech
         | giants like Google. The more you support Firefox, the more
         | likely it will be that this service will stick.
        
         | rileyteige wrote:
         | > Firefox Send
         | 
         | What a letdown to see this service so quickly retired.
        
       | ordx wrote:
       | Services like this usually get banned by a lot of websites for
       | various reasons. One solution could be to rotate domains from
       | time to time, but I doubt they gonna do this.
        
       | elliotlarson wrote:
       | I don't know. It's so easy to just create a random Gmail address
       | and forward email from it. Maybe this makes it easier, but Gmail
       | is one of the few Google products that I feel pretty confident
       | will be around for a long time.
        
         | decrypt wrote:
         | One still has to enter a mobile number to sign up for that
         | Google account. But the larger difference is, that account
         | would still be a standalone email address, which just happens
         | to forward to your main Gmail address. But Firefox Relay (and
         | similar products, like AnonAddy and SimpleLogin) are alias
         | services. The idea with these services is to create addresses
         | that can be immediately blocked, if they get into the hands of
         | spammers. I am a happy SimpleLogin customer, and have made as
         | many as 200 addresses. AnonAddy is a great start too, for those
         | that need unlimited addresses. Both allow responding from those
         | addresses, while AnonAddy's count is less.
        
           | Normille wrote:
           | Yandex Mail [0] is a better choice for this than Gmail. It
           | also asks for a phone number to validate, on sign up. But
           | there's a box you can tick which says something like _" I
           | don't have a mobile phone"_ and then you can validate with a
           | Captcha instead
           | 
           | [0]https://mail.yandex.com
        
           | elliotlarson wrote:
           | Ah, okay. Those are fair points.
        
       | niftylettuce wrote:
       | I encourage you to instead try out https://forwardemail.net. I'm
       | launching our browser extension and our SMTP service very soon.
       | It's completely open-source and free. No logging either. We're
       | the only service that doesn't write emails let alone logs to disk
       | nor store any metadata.
       | 
       | You can use unlimited custom domains and create disposable
       | aliases on the fly as well!
       | 
       | (I'm the creator, lmk any questions!)
        
         | zanecraw wrote:
         | Awesome! Just signed up for the free plan and looking forward
         | for this browser extension.
        
         | remilee wrote:
         | Super easy to set up, thanks!
        
         | riedel wrote:
         | Should always use two or more of such services in a cascade to
         | generate a mix network for true anonymity. Wait: The E-Mail
         | forwarder would actually need to remove the To: fields to
         | support this...
        
           | riedel wrote:
           | the future was here: https://www.mixminion.net/
        
         | azinman2 wrote:
         | > " Unlike other services, we do not keep logs nor metadata,
         | never read emails, and are 100% open-source."
         | 
         | So how do you prevent abuse?
        
           | niftylettuce wrote:
           | I created tools such as https://spamscanner.net and use ARC +
           | ARF.
        
             | GordonS wrote:
             | I'm familiar with DKIM and SPF, but haven't come across the
             | acronyms ARC or ARF before?
        
       | dominotw wrote:
       | I don't consider my email to be valuable enough to be hidden. I
       | don't use email at all other than to do very mundane tasks.
        
         | mosselman wrote:
         | I once saw a comment on an auction on a yellow commode someone
         | was advertising. It read "No thank, I am looking for a blue
         | one".
         | 
         | Your comment made me think of that.
        
       | remram wrote:
       | I assume emails @relay.firefox.com will be banned from every form
       | in a week or two, the same way @yopmail.com is?
        
         | Vixel wrote:
         | My thoughts exactly. I've even run into sites that don't allow
         | tutanota
        
         | kilroy123 wrote:
         | That was the very first thought that popped into my head.
        
       | jamesboehmer wrote:
       | IMO if you're really concerned about anonymity and securing your
       | email from credential-stuffing, and willing to pay for such a
       | service (I used to pay for 33mail), it's easier to just buy a
       | domain and route * to your inbox.
       | 
       | It won't get banned by some services, you have complete control
       | over the domain and account, you can send email from any address
       | you wish, you can sign up for domain-wide haveibeenpwned alerts
       | by verifying domain ownership via TXT records, and you don't have
       | to worry about the service going out of business in 2 years.
       | 
       | After going through my password manager last year and changing as
       | many logins and emails as I could, I've found several services
       | that have sold my email address to third parties and one that was
       | hacked. It's a relief to know I don't have all my proverbial
       | email eggs in one basket.
        
         | 7786655 wrote:
         | How on earth is that anonymous? All of your emails are on the
         | same domain, and nobody else is using that domain. As soon as I
         | see an email @jamesboehmersdomain, I know that it belongs to
         | jamesboehmer.
        
           | dinkleberg wrote:
           | You buy some cheap domain for this purpose. Certain TLDs go
           | for real cheap (~$2/year).
        
             | nucleardog wrote:
             | I wouldn't tie my entire digital identity to whatever's
             | cheapest if I could avoid it.
             | 
             | In my case I use my CC TLD. I'm in a generally stable
             | nation that follows the rule of law and the administrator
             | of the CC TLD has all sorts of processes in place that I
             | have access to as far as regaining control of the domain if
             | it's inappropriately transferred, making appeals, etc.
             | 
             | The extra $10 or so a year this costs is very much worth it
             | to me as basically a form of insurance.
        
             | thayne wrote:
             | What TLDs are those?
        
               | Hamuko wrote:
               | https://tld-list.com/
               | 
               | Sort by cheapest renewal.
               | 
               | For example, you can register and renew a .feedback
               | domain for $1.49 a year.
        
               | stevewillows wrote:
               | like Hamuko said, there are domains like .party, etc that
               | are cheap. However, some sites won't take them. My main
               | junk account is a wildcard .party domain. It'll work with
               | mosts sites, but the odd one won't take them. I ended up
               | registering a .com that goes to the same inbox to get
               | around these.
        
           | jamesboehmer wrote:
           | You're right, it's not 100% anonymous. But my name's not in
           | the domain, and I use WhoisGuard with my registrar. It's
           | reasonably effective, cheap, and a low effort way to deflect
           | the bots and identify suspicious activity.
        
             | koheripbal wrote:
             | This could be more easily done by simply signing up for
             | gmail with an address that doesn't contain your name.
        
               | jamesboehmer wrote:
               | 7786655's point was that the custom domain is not perfect
               | anonymity because if someone knows who owns the domain,
               | then they know the owner of every email. If someone
               | discovers my pseudonymous gmail account, then the same
               | problem exists. But perfect anonymity was never my goal.
        
         | dvfjsdhgfv wrote:
         | > route * to your inbox
         | 
         | This is a terrible solution. Updating aliases takes a few
         | seconds, you can even shorten this time by creating a simple
         | script adding the new alias and updating the aliases db.
        
           | jamesboehmer wrote:
           | What's bad about it? Been doing this for more than a year now
           | and I've not encountered any problems. I've had catchall
           | emails for every domain I own for 20 years or so and the
           | worst I get is cold sales emails to info@ and sales@.
           | 
           | If I want to block an incoming address it's a few clicks
           | away, I've just never needed to because spam filtering works
           | pretty well. Perhaps that might change some day and I'll
           | switch to a whitelist approach.
        
         | wnevets wrote:
         | > IMO if you're really concerned about anonymity and securing
         | your email from credential-stuffing, and willing to pay for
         | such a service (I used to pay for 33mail), it's easier to just
         | buy a domain and route * to your inbox.
         | 
         | I've been doing this years and I usually use the domain I'm
         | signing up for as the address. Beware tho some people get
         | really confused by how email works. I was requesting quotes for
         | a home improvement project and I've had employees at these
         | companies think I was either friends with the owner or that I
         | hacked their email.
        
           | giaour wrote:
           | It gets super awkward when you have to read the email aloud.
           | My optometrist spent five minutes trying to explain that they
           | wanted _my_ email when they tried to transfer a prescription
           | from Warby Parker.
           | 
           | "My email/username for Warby Parker is 'warbyparker.com@...'"
           | 
           | "No, they need _your_ email, not theirs. "
           | 
           | "..."
        
             | mceachen wrote:
             | I solved this by only including a unique prefix of the
             | website, like "warby@example.com".
        
               | 411111111111111 wrote:
               | "oh, so you're an employee?"
               | 
               | Got asked that once after specifying sixt@mydomain when
               | renting a car
        
           | noncoml wrote:
           | Forget about that, way too advanced!
           | 
           | I had a customer support on the phone insisting I was not
           | giving them a valid email. "It should have something like
           | @gmail.com or @yahoo.com".
        
         | batch12 wrote:
         | I do something like this too except the aliases are manually
         | created. I went one step further and made an optional learning
         | period for addresses so anything from a previously unseen
         | sender address after x days is dropped. I also added an
         | optional lifespan to the address so it is only valid for Y
         | days.
        
         | grep_name wrote:
         | My experience with email in general has been so exhausting.
         | This year I finally set up a new email address at a custom
         | domain (with * catchall), but what I've found is that I'm
         | afraid to give it to anyone. Right now I'm using it to
         | communicate with like 3 people and it feels so nice.
         | 
         | I may use the * in the future for custom emails for groups of
         | concerns (jobs@domain or applications@domain, hn@domain,
         | banking@domain), but I'm worried it will just add to the
         | heaping mental overhead I already experience when working with
         | email (what was my address I use for this again...?, etc). I
         | can't help the feeling that it's just a matter of time before
         | it starts to look like my original email account where even
         | unsubscribing from things seems like a labor of Sisyphus, but
         | this time with the added noise of it going to an email naming
         | system I've lost control of.
        
           | stevewillows wrote:
           | with my catchall, I use one address per site. If they sell it
           | off or whatever, I block the old one, update it on the site
           | (e.g. hn2@blah.net)
           | 
           | They're all tucked away in your password manager anyway, so
           | there isn't any effort or tracking needed.
           | 
           | I've had this system for about two years now and have yet to
           | receive any junk mail with the new domain.
        
         | amelius wrote:
         | Sending email reliably is a nightmare.
        
         | r2b2 wrote:
         | Using your own private domain does not give you the same level
         | of anonymity. Your domain name becomes a globally unique
         | identifier that companies (and once leaked, anyone) can use to
         | fingerprint you activity online.
         | 
         | (Source, I run https://owlmail.io and this is a common
         | question.)
        
         | yread wrote:
         | Sending email from your own domain is anything but easy. You
         | need SPF, DKIM and DMARC at minimum. Are you going to host your
         | own mail server? No one will accept your emails. Will you use
         | sendgrid or postmark or SES? Enjoy having your emails
         | (especially in the beginning) randomly end up in spam folders
         | or worse completely quarantined (no bounce, nothing in spam
         | folder) for various large institutions using MS Forefront.
         | 
         | Sending email is complicated.
        
           | [deleted]
        
         | jszymborski wrote:
         | I do the catchall thing too, but Migadu has an API for creating
         | aliases... I think it'd be pretty cool to create a little
         | script to generate random aliases and keep track of them.
        
         | blindm wrote:
         | > it's easier to just buy a domain and route * to your inbox
         | 
         | There is the caveat of the domain getting into the wrong hands,
         | if you look long enough down the road. What if you die, or
         | simply can't afford to renew the domain well into the future? I
         | know if I could look down from heaven after I die and saw
         | someone re-registering my dropped domain, I would be furious!
         | 
         | Then there is the issue of even when you're alive, you could
         | simply refuse to renew for whatever reason and the domain is
         | suddenly someone else's.
         | 
         | MarkMonitor and Epik are the only companies that I know of that
         | can safeguard against this. Epik has so called 'forever
         | domains' and ensure the domain stays active well into the
         | future.
        
           | jamesboehmer wrote:
           | I gave this some thought and decided it's actually worse with
           | gmail. If google decides they don't like me, they can kill my
           | email and I would lose access to pretty much everything.
           | 
           | But if my custom-domain email provider closes shop, I can at
           | least take my domain with me.
           | 
           | You have a point though, I should just prepay for the next 10
           | years of my domain, and set myself a reminder to renew in 9
           | years :-)
        
             | jsheard wrote:
             | Renewing a .com for the maximum 10 years in advance is a
             | bit of a trap, because to transfer the domain to another
             | registrar you have to buy at least one additional year...
             | which you can't do if you're already at the 10 year limit.
             | If your registrar pulls a GoDaddy and you want to move away
             | you might find yourself having to wait up to a year.
             | 
             | There might be similar caveats with other TLDs but I only
             | have experience with .com
        
               | kube-system wrote:
               | Good point. I'll make sure to keep mine registered
               | 9-years out from now on.
        
           | arpa wrote:
           | It's just a domain, man, chill, don't let it drag you down.
           | Why should you feel so strongly about transient things? It's
           | just a name...
        
             | dinkleberg wrote:
             | They have a point though, when you rely on a domain you've
             | gotta be cautious. If I buy your domain when you forget to
             | renew it I can then do password resets against any accounts
             | you used an email on that domain with.
        
               | megous wrote:
               | It would be nice if web services offered an option to
               | disable this misfeature per account, or better yet offer
               | to upload the user's PGP key and encrypt all outgoing
               | email with it, incl. the password reset email.
        
           | kart23 wrote:
           | do you have more info on the 'forever domain'? Are they
           | actually guaranteeing the domain forever or is it just as
           | long as Epik exists?
        
         | Vixel wrote:
         | This is a good way to get a ton of spam from bots who try every
         | word @yourdomain
        
           | fartcannon wrote:
           | You can still have spam filters and block lists.
        
           | giaour wrote:
           | I like the way Fastmail handles this. Your normal email is
           | _user_ @ _domain_. _tld_ , and you can configure the service
           | to also treat emails to <anything>@ _user_. _domain_. _tld_
           | as having been sent to you.
           | 
           | I have never seen bots try random addresses on a subdomain.
        
             | robinhood wrote:
             | This is exactly how I use Fastmail. Every newsletter/new
             | account has a dedicated email address that is an alias to
             | my primary fastmail address, based on a custom combination.
             | 
             | That way, it's super easy to know which service is actually
             | either spamming me, or leaked my email address.
        
           | slightwinder wrote:
           | I'm use a catchall-domain for 10 years or so, never got any
           | botspam like that. Only think I got sometimes was spam to
           | info@domain, and this can be easily ignored.
           | 
           | Do those bots really exist? I would think the TLD I use is
           | just not interessting enough for them, but it's from a big
           | country.
        
             | megous wrote:
             | Yes, they did exist. I stopped using catchall because of
             | them. It's not as common these days, looking at my postfix
             | log. Though some large spammers were shut down a few years
             | ago. I saw a sharp 60-70% drop in spam volume when that
             | happened. So maybe someone who was doing this dictionary
             | search gave up or was shutdown too in recent past.
        
             | bartvk wrote:
             | I have this regularly. My catch all gets emails from a bot
             | that tries common first names at my domain, but sometimes
             | really weird ones as well, seemingly random such as
             | a23ssaaaa@example.com
        
           | jamesboehmer wrote:
           | Do people not already get their primary inboxes flooded with
           | spam anyway? I've found my email provider's spam filtering
           | pretty good anyway, it hasn't been an issue.
        
         | thethimble wrote:
         | What do you use for email hosting?
        
           | jamesboehmer wrote:
           | I'd rather not say. I imagine it shouldn't matter though.
           | Plenty of email providers allow custom domains and
           | configurable routing.
        
         | kevincox wrote:
         | It is probably a non-issue but one downside is that if people
         | realize that you are doing this they can just pick a new "user"
         | and reach you even if you have blocked their original address.
         | 
         | It would be interesting to do something like this with
         | signatures. You could generate new addresses "on the fly" by
         | picking a prefix and signing it. Then you can use this email
         | and it can't be modified in a way to generate a new valid
         | email.
         | 
         | For example you could have walmart-oaiua83n@yourdomain.example
         | and they couldn't just change it to goodcompany@example.com.
        
           | pricci wrote:
           | I would do something like that but with a simple rule/cipher
           | that can be computed mentally and is not completely obvious
           | at first look. Like a shift cipher of the first two
           | characters of the name:
           | 
           | wolmart.yq@example.com
           | 
           | w+2 = y and o+2 = q
        
             | kevincox wrote:
             | I was thinking that you would have a browser extension or
             | bookmarklet but yes, you could definitely get away with
             | something simpler.
        
           | joosters wrote:
           | I do this with my email, and it's definitely a non-issue. The
           | problem is not _people_ but _processes_ - automated spam and
           | the like.
        
             | 8ytecoder wrote:
             | Agreed. I do this and even without any good spam filter, my
             | spam is down to at most 2 a week. The reason behind this is
             | that most companies that exchange data use email/phone
             | number as a unique key.
             | 
             | (I use fastmail to host. This is the only reason I can't
             | use Hey yet.)
        
       | Shorn wrote:
       | Where's the pricing page?
        
       | dschuessler wrote:
       | There's a self-hostable alternative called Inboxen
       | (https://inboxen.org/) I haven't gotten around to setting it up
       | yet, unfortunately.
        
       | emphatizer2000 wrote:
       | Until they deplatform you and all of your email addresses stop
       | working.
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | garysahota93 wrote:
       | I've set something like this up with Google Domains + Gmail for
       | free (well, the yearly cost of the domain, but yeah)
       | 
       | I was able to set up alias emails in my gmail & have all emails
       | from a particular domain forward to my domain as well.
       | 
       | Then went with a password manager & changed all my email
       | addresses to my own domain with specific relays (amazon@ netflix@
       | etc etc)
       | 
       | Works really well for ~12/year!
        
       | tandr wrote:
       | So, the same idea that is https://sneakemail.com ?
       | 
       | (happy user for like 12 years?)
        
       | megous wrote:
       | I generate long completely random aliases also for other reason:
       | to help with phishing detection.
       | 
       | I store aliases in DB along with a short description of to whom
       | they were issued, and some extra flags. My mail client then
       | highlights emails sent to these aliases in green color and shows
       | their description instead of the alias itself in the "From"
       | column of the message list.
       | 
       | I always give random aliases to online services, eshops, shipping
       | companies, etc. These private aliases will never receive SPAM, or
       | phishing, unless leaked by the company.
       | 
       | Anything that looks like a transactional email from some service,
       | and is not sent to private alias, just gets deleted right away.
       | It's not even worth opening, no matter how good it looks.
       | 
       | And I can keep my phishing guard up on much lower volume of green
       | emails. It also makes whitelisting transactional email easier,
       | without allowing random SPAM to the Inbox, because filtering
       | based on the "shared secret" per company delivery address will
       | allow in all important email from the company, regardless of how
       | or from what address it was sent.
        
       | FloatArtifact wrote:
       | Is there something like this privacy oriented for phone numbers?
        
       | stephenc_c_ wrote:
       | Similar to Apple's option https://support.apple.com/en-
       | us/HT210425
        
         | jacurtis wrote:
         | The concept is similar. But Apple only provides this feature on
         | sites that impliment "Sign in with Apple". Firefox Relay allows
         | you to create these relays on the fly, ad-hoc to put into any
         | email field on the web (like sign up for my newsletter fields).
        
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