[HN Gopher] Japanese companies fight for share of EUV chip techn...
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       Japanese companies fight for share of EUV chip technology sector
        
       Author : totalZero
       Score  : 33 points
       Date   : 2021-01-24 20:31 UTC (2 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (asia.nikkei.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (asia.nikkei.com)
        
       | hinkley wrote:
       | As much as the US sits around hand wringing about manufacturing
       | being outsourced, does anyone have a good perspective on how this
       | has played out in Japan? From our perspective, they're one
       | 'generation' of outsourcing from us, two if you count Taiwan, and
       | we've had at least South Korea and Mainland China since then.
       | 
       | I got a little taste of their recession in the 1990's, but not
       | much information since then. Are they as worried now as we were
       | when Toyota ate everybody's lunch?
        
         | totalZero wrote:
         | I have been thinking about this a lot recently, and I think
         | Canon and Nikon, both of whom produce Deep UV machinery (ie,
         | equipment that uses a laser wavelength about an order of
         | magnitude wider than EUV's 13.5nm), have an opportunity due to
         | demand for legacy foundry processes. They are a tiny part of
         | the photolithography equipment sub-sector, but the present
         | moment is marked by overwhelming demand for semiconductors for
         | automotive applications, and those chips aren't running on
         | leading-edge nodes like TSMC 5nm or Intel 10nm (there's no
         | reason for them to). If I were the CEO of a global automaker,
         | I'd be buying legacy (22nm and older) foundry equipment in
         | order to make chips in-house because the eventual product mix
         | transition (ICE vs EV) means I'm going to need more custom
         | semiconductors than ever before.
         | 
         | The semiconductor industry is so complex that it depends upon
         | companies in many nations, including Japan. No one nation owns
         | the semiconductor lifecycle, but each part of the process is
         | dominated (but not entirely owned) by one nation. Japan
         | dominates wafer production. One company in the Netherlands
         | dominates photolithography equipment. The United States
         | dominates processor design. China dominates device assembly.
         | Korea dominates NAND. Taiwan dominates foundry. Companies in
         | all of these places are laying out a bunch of CapEx so clearly
         | there's an anticipation of a rising tide that lifts all boats,
         | rather than a rejiggering of market share that hurts one
         | economy (forgetting China for a second) while helping another.
        
         | bazooka_penguin wrote:
         | Applied Materials is a key player in semicom fabrication and
         | it's American. There are also a handful of Japanese companies
         | that hold virtual monopolies over key resources like
         | fluorinated polyimide film, photoresists, and hydrogen fluoride
         | and it became a big international issue when Japan revoked
         | korea's free trade access to those materials.
         | 
         | It seems like there's been a deliberate push, like propaganda,
         | to play up ASML's importance over everyone else in the past
         | year or so. I've been seeing ASML brought up everywhere and
         | often seemingly for no reason.
        
           | totalZero wrote:
           | Agreed that ASML isn't the only important company, but they
           | are clearly very important.
           | 
           | EUV is the core technology for the leading-edge nodes of
           | Intel, Samsung, and TSMC. ASML is the only company in the
           | world that makes those machines. They sold 6 of them this
           | past quarter and delivered 9, despite limitations on their
           | ability to do business with Chinese foundries. They're
           | approximately four-fifths of the lithography market in
           | general, and basically five-fifths of the EUV market. So
           | while their machines are not the only component of a
           | foundry's toolkit, it's quite clear that ASML is a critically
           | important business.
        
         | Scheherazade wrote:
         | Although your question has merit for this case specifically as
         | ASML is a Dutch company there is very little hand wringing
         | about outsourcing. For the forseeable future the Dutch are
         | going to toe Washington's line. In fact in some ways it's
         | desirable to throw middle powers a bone every now and then as
         | it gives Washington an additional geopolitical bargaining chip
         | that can be more easily called.
        
           | trynumber9 wrote:
           | ASML's EUV light sources are made in San Diego (ex Cymer) and
           | many of their EUV twin scan machines are made in Wilton, CT.
           | So oddly it seems they outsource to the US.
        
             | detaro wrote:
             | afaik they bought Cymer specifically for the light sources,
             | so it makes some sense.
        
       | doomlaser wrote:
       | > ASML Holding of the Netherlands dominates the market for the
       | equipment. Major semiconductor makers began full use of it in
       | 2019 and _ASML is the sole company capable of mass-producing it._
       | 
       | They supply the whole industry, from Samsung to TSMC to Intel.
        
       | clcuc wrote:
       | That article is from 2020. Link to article in Japanese:
       | 
       | [0]: https://www.nikkei.com/article/DGXMZO61125800T00C20A7TJ2000
        
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       (page generated 2021-01-24 23:00 UTC)