[HN Gopher] Hush: Noiseless Browsing for Safari
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Hush: Noiseless Browsing for Safari
        
       Author : ggoo
       Score  : 155 points
       Date   : 2021-01-24 15:03 UTC (7 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (daringfireball.net)
 (TXT) w3m dump (daringfireball.net)
        
       | nicbou wrote:
       | uBlock Origin has a few lists that disable annoyances. They are
       | disabled by default, but they're arguably the most important
       | lists.
       | 
       | It's weird to borrow someone's laptop, and see a barrage of ads,
       | notices, bars and other visual spam.
        
         | LeoNatan25 wrote:
         | It's strange that even today, people are still not aware they
         | should be using ad blockers with as many lists as they could
         | live with. It's no longer just about sanity and protecting
         | attention, but now also about security, as we've heard more and
         | more about malware running rampart from ad distribution
         | servers.
        
           | px43 wrote:
           | The really crazy thing about using ad networks to distribute
           | malware, which I think is very much still unrecognized, is
           | how targeted you can make it.
           | 
           | You can, for example, target people over the age of 70 that
           | live in high net worth areas, or people that live
           | geographically close to some organization you're targeting
           | specifically, in hopes of hitting an employee, or someone in
           | their family.
        
           | foo52728 wrote:
           | Really strange is the anti-ad-blocking campaign saying they
           | make browsing slow and are privacy unfriendly
        
             | LeoNatan25 wrote:
             | Don't forget the claims that adblocks risk your privacy,
             | because they have access to all the sites you visit. >_<
        
             | emptyparadise wrote:
             | Makes perfect sense when you consider how much money is at
             | stake.
        
           | jfk13 wrote:
           | > It's strange that even today, people are still not aware
           | they should be using ad blockers with as many lists as they
           | could live with.
           | 
           | No, it's strange (or rather, it's sad and shameful) that
           | we've allowed the web to become an environment where this
           | attitude even needs to be considered.
        
           | dylan604 wrote:
           | How is it strange? There are way more people that are not
           | developers that browse the web not using a desktop. Hell, I'd
           | imagine the number of people that think the entirety of the
           | internet are the apps on their mobile device like
           | FB,IG,Twitter,YT,etc is much larger than the number of
           | developers that know and care about such things.
           | 
           | I find it strange that "smart" people such as developers
           | can't imagine people think differently than they do, and
           | behave differently than they do.
        
             | LeoNatan25 wrote:
             | I meant strange in the context of the people I normally
             | interact with, with regards to computers, which are usually
             | developers or otherwise relatively tech savvy.
        
           | IfOnlyYouKnew wrote:
           | I can't remember a single instance of people being infected
           | by ads after the end of the IE era. And in 20 years on the
           | internet, often without ad-blocking, I've never been a victim
           | of anything like that (as far as I can tell, yes. But I'm
           | somewhat certain and don't much care about symptomless
           | problems).
           | 
           | As far as I can tell, the security argument is advanced
           | mostly as justification for blocking even unobtrusive ads by
           | people who love to both complain about the terrible state of
           | "mainstream media" and to read what they publish.
        
             | jorvi wrote:
             | I have a physicist friend who somehow installed a fake
             | Google Chrome, which still blows my mind to this day.
             | Either his searches must have already been hijacked or
             | Google _really_ doesn 't filter the ads at the top of the
             | first page.
             | 
             | Luckily enough he never got pwned despite conducting
             | basically his entire digital life through that browser.
             | 
             | Badware is still alive and well, but it's mostly tricking
             | people into installing it. The days of ActiveX zero clicks
             | are indeed (and thankfully!) long behind us.
        
             | LeoNatan25 wrote:
             | If only you bothered to do a quick search in Google before
             | typing that ignorant comment...
        
             | gorhill wrote:
             | > the security argument is advanced mostly as justification
             | for blocking even unobtrusive ads by people who love to
             | both complain about the terrible state of "mainstream
             | media"
             | 
             | Here are documented instances of malvertising I collated
             | over the years, and which is by no mean comprehensive and
             | which I haven't taken the time to update in a long while:
             | 
             | https://github.com/gorhill/uBlock/wiki/Dynamic-
             | filtering:-Be...
             | 
             | Additionally, excerpt from CISA's "Securing Web Browsers
             | and Defending Against Malvertising for Federal
             | Agencies"[1]:
             | 
             | > Ad-blocking software prevents advertisements from
             | displaying or removes different types of ads (e.g., pop-
             | ups, banner ads) when a user visits a website or uses an
             | application. This software reduces a user's risk in
             | receiving malicious ads or being redirected to malicious
             | websites. One common ad-blocking technique is the use of
             | web browser extensions that enable a user or agency to
             | customize and control the appearance of online ads. CISA
             | encourages agencies to evaluate solutions that would enable
             | malicious ad blocking.
             | 
             | ---
             | 
             | [1] https://www.cisa.gov/publication/capacity-enhancement-
             | guides...
        
         | benhurmarcel wrote:
         | > It's weird to borrow someone's laptop, and see a barrage of
         | ads, notices, bars and other visual spam.
         | 
         | "Hey you should be using an ad blocker, it avoid ads and
         | viruses, and makes websites faster. Do you mind if I install
         | you one?"
        
         | JosephRedfern wrote:
         | The Ad Blocker situation on Safari is pretty poor. I've ended
         | up with Ghostery, but really miss uBlock Origin.
        
           | bni wrote:
           | I use KaBlock! Despite its silly name its great. Open Source
           | and thanks to Safari content blocker security model I can
           | trust it.
        
           | blowfish721 wrote:
           | I miss uBlock Origin as well but AdGuard has really proven
           | itself to be good thankfully.
        
           | andrethegiant wrote:
           | 1Blocker is great, although it is paid.
        
             | thekid314 wrote:
             | Yeah, 1Blocker running on Safari and NextDNS connection in
             | the background means I never see ads these days.
        
               | andrethegiant wrote:
               | Thanks for the NextDNS tip, it looks amazing. I was about
               | to set up Pi-hole today but this looks better.
        
               | jdeibele wrote:
               | AdGuard DNS is easy to set up and free. I went with it
               | because there are 5 of us at home all the time due to
               | COVID and I didn't know if we would hit the NextDNS limit
               | of 300,000 queries a month.
               | 
               | 10,000 queries a day sounds like a lot but our router
               | (Orbi) isn't doing any caching so maybe it's not.
               | 
               | AdGuard DNS doesn't let you have any configuration. My
               | college student had to change her DNS settings once
               | because an app was being blocked as an ad blocker.
        
         | romanovcode wrote:
         | uBlock Origin does not work on Safari so this statement is
         | irrelevant.
        
       | wodenokoto wrote:
       | ... but still no adblocker for safari
        
         | ludwigschubert wrote:
         | Not sure what you mean, are you missing a specific ad blocker?
         | There are some ad blockers for Safari, both on macOS and on
         | iOS. 1Blocker, AdGuard, Wipr, are examples I know to work well.
         | (Many are paid, though, or have paid "premium" tiers.) Edit:
         | others in this thread also mention Ghostery, KaBlock.
        
           | [deleted]
        
       | mikhailt wrote:
       | Is there any work being done to revert the requirements of cookie
       | banners, age consent, etc? These are all utterly pointless and
       | easy to bypass.
       | 
       | While we're at it, get rid of the forced "piracy is harmful" ads
       | on every media disc too. Pirates don't actually see these
       | messages, they're stripped out in the final copy, so the actual
       | legal customers are the only one suffering through it as they
       | can't be skipped either with the skip button, which is silly.
       | 
       | We need to do a better job of cleaning up our laws that has
       | turned out to be worthless.
        
         | rozab wrote:
         | Do Not Track should have been made legally binding. Hell, with
         | any sane interpretation of GDPR it would be.
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | _jstreet wrote:
         | I wonder that too. Would this be something the W3C would look
         | into introducing some configurable cookie-consent (i.e. "Accept
         | all", "necessary only", "block all" options) that browser
         | vendors could then pick-up on and adopt so that it wouldn't
         | require manual checks at each website visit?
        
           | colejohnson66 wrote:
           | As the DNT header history shows, the only solution is privacy
           | laws
        
           | detaro wrote:
           | Something like the Do-Not-Track header? The history of that
           | pretty much shows how much adoption to expect for a feature
           | like this, sadly.
        
         | ryukafalz wrote:
         | I think the cookie banner requirements are just fine: they're
         | only required if sites are tracking you. It's a good sign that
         | if I'm on a site that's not bothering me with a cookie banner,
         | it's respecting my privacy: https://github.blog/2020-12-17-no-
         | cookie-for-you/
         | 
         | Making the widespread surveillance that was previously
         | invisible visible (and annoying) seems like a good move to me.
        
           | crazygringo wrote:
           | But virtually every site I visit is tracking me.
           | 
           | It doesn't change the fact that they're tracking me, it just
           | makes me click an "X" or "OK" every damned time I visit some
           | new site to read an article or something.
           | 
           | I could understand your argument if sites were actually
           | removing tracking in order not to annoy users with the popup.
           | 
           | But sites aren't doing that, not in any meaningful number at
           | all. So it's not having any effect on privacy, while annoying
           | basically every internet user ever constantly (before you
           | hunt for an extension to block as many of them as you can).
           | 
           | So I don't see how it's a good move at all, not in practice.
           | It's just annoying, and that's it.
        
             | ryukafalz wrote:
             | Before cookie banners were required, do you think the
             | average user would have any idea how many sites were
             | tracking them? I don't think they did. It's beneficial if
             | only to increase public awareness, because tracking is
             | otherwise invisible.
             | 
             | Heck, I'm a reasonably technical user, and I wouldn't have
             | noticed in most cases. Again, invisible. Now I have a
             | negative first impression of a site if it annoys me with
             | cookie banners, and a more positive one if not.
        
               | kstrauser wrote:
               | Except now it feels like a California Prop 65 warning
               | that you see on literally every business. "Something in
               | here may cause cancer. Is it a bottle of toilet cleaner
               | locked in the supply closet? Is it benzene in the hummus?
               | Who knows!"
        
               | nickpp wrote:
               | And what difference does it make if we now know we are
               | being tracked?
        
           | asiando wrote:
           | They're _ok_ but they should be more precise:
           | 
           | 1. Require websites to be concise and offer a yes/no ONLY.
           | 
           | 2. Reverse-lobby browser vendors to turn this into an API.
           | 
           | 3. Require everyone to use the API.
           | 
           | Now users can block or accept all requests at once like they
           | can block or accept Notification requests.
        
         | Nextgrid wrote:
         | Cookie banners aren't _required_ per-se, and when the website
         | wishes to do tracking that would require consent under the
         | GDPR, the regulation mandates that the consent prompt should be
         | clear, opt-in (aka pre-ticked checkboxes aren 't allowed) and
         | that accepting should be as easy as declining (so if opting in
         | takes one click, so should opt-out).
         | 
         | The problem is that the GDPR is not being enforced seriously so
         | these breaches of the regulation aren't being cleaned up. I'm
         | not sure if it's malice or outright stupidity and the companies
         | legitimately believe they are compliant (there is tons of bad
         | and incorrect advice out there).
         | 
         | If you want things to change and you're in Europe, you should
         | start by questioning the incompetence of your local data
         | protection agency as they are the ones that have the power to
         | investigate breaches & impose fines. In the UK, the Open Rights
         | Group is raising money to sue our data protection agency for
         | its incompetence/unwillingness to enforce the regulation, so
         | maybe it's worth checking out:
         | https://action.openrightsgroup.org/help-us-protect-your-data...
         | (no affiliation)
        
       | mikkelam wrote:
       | I've been using "I don't care about cookies" for years now
       | https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/i-dont-care-a...
       | 
       | It's fantastic. Browsing the web on my iPhone, I feel like
       | slaying myself. Current state of the web is just fucking
       | annoying.
        
         | dheera wrote:
         | Exactly. I don't care about cookies because I block all of them
         | anyway except on sites I need to login to, which means those
         | sites won't be able to remember cookie accept/decline settings
         | either because ironically they need _another_ cookie to store
         | that setting.
         | 
         | I used a bunch of custom CSS until I got tired of it, then I
         | started using uBlock Origin which also helps block other
         | annoyances like those stupid "Can I help you?" chat bubbles and
         | other popups on various websites.
        
         | benhurmarcel wrote:
         | Also available as an adblock list: https://www.i-dont-care-
         | about-cookies.eu/
        
         | Nextgrid wrote:
         | AdGuard is available on iOS too. It's using the same list as
         | the one from the article (plus a few more).
        
       | rakoo wrote:
       | > Hush is a throwback to the days when good clever people made
       | good clever things
       | 
       | It is sad the author believes that cookies banner is here only
       | because website owners don't care about design anymore. Banners
       | are absolutely annoying by design because owners _want_ people to
       | be annoyed and click  "I accept everything" to not be annoyed
       | anymore. Owners could very well make those banners disappear with
       | one simple trick: just don't collect any information.
       | 
       | The "golden past" isn't one where they used to care about users'
       | experience, it's one where they didn't have to care about users'
       | privacy. I personally highly welcome the change and try to
       | websites that don't care about my privacy by default.
        
         | jolux wrote:
         | Plenty of those cookie banners specifically make it harder to
         | opt out of inessential cookies, though. That part bothers me a
         | lot.
        
           | rakoo wrote:
           | That's by design, they want you to click on "I accept
           | everything" without reading. It's the choice that the website
           | owners did
        
             | jolux wrote:
             | I know. I hate it.
        
             | Nextgrid wrote:
             | This is also explicitly against the regulation they're
             | trying to comply with - at which point they may as well
             | just not ask for consent to begin with.
        
         | bombcar wrote:
         | Many websites implemented the banner because other websites are
         | implementing them. There's a lot of bandwagons out there.
        
           | macinjosh wrote:
           | The EU used the force and threat of law to force everyone to
           | do it.
        
             | Nextgrid wrote:
             | The thing is, the EU is not using the force of the law
             | because the law explicitly bans annoying or misleading
             | consent prompts, so should the law be enforced, the problem
             | would self-resolve very quickly.
        
             | jen20 wrote:
             | Two options exist:
             | 
             | 1) ask for consent for personal data you are taking 2) do
             | not take personal data.
             | 
             | The latter is clearly preferable.
        
             | Shared404 wrote:
             | The EU used the force and threat of law to force everyone
             | who already should have been doing it to do it.
             | 
             | A bunch of other people just jumped on the bandwagon.
        
               | yoz-y wrote:
               | It's a bit puzzling, why would you add an annoying banner
               | for 'fashion' purposes? It's more work and if you don't
               | believe it's useful (in this case to shield yourself from
               | potential legal trouble) why would you do it?
        
               | Shared404 wrote:
               | The key part is that many people do believe it's useful
               | when it's not.
               | 
               | It's management/legal saying "Oh no, we use cookies! We
               | need a cookie banner!", even though the only cookie used
               | is to track state or some such thing which doesn't fall
               | under GDPR.
        
       | bombcar wrote:
       | I get the name makes sense for what it does but I long for the
       | days that products weren't simple English words - searching
       | "Hush" on the App Store found many results - none of which looked
       | like this.
       | 
       | Which brings me to the annoyance of "go here search this": a
       | regressing to AOL keywords when URLs exist is madness.
        
         | ludwigschubert wrote:
         | I understand your frustration about generic names, but the URL
         | situation ain't so dire:
         | 
         | This HN submission links to Gruber's website, his post title
         | links to the app's GitHub page
         | (https://oblador.github.io/hush/) which has a direct App Store
         | link. (https://apps.apple.com/app/id1544743900)
        
         | jccalhoun wrote:
         | I also wish the name or subtitle was more accurate. When I read
         | "noiseless" I thought it muted all your tabs or something not
         | that it got rid of "visual noise" or something.
        
       | kowlo wrote:
       | I'm going to check Hush out - I hope it works as intended. I've
       | been using Safari as my main browser for a while now, and it has
       | been a little (very) painful since the update that broke uBlock
       | origin. It seems a pi-hole isn't enough!
       | 
       | It would be great to browse the web without all the noise!
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | Kudos wrote:
       | > Hush is a throwback to the days when good clever people made
       | good clever things, polished them to perfection simply because
       | they care, and just shared them with the world
       | 
       | Spoken like someone who doesn't need to worry about their income.
        
         | sritchie wrote:
         | If someone gets into that situation, isn't this exactly what
         | you'd hope they'd be spending their time doing, for the rest of
         | our sakes?
        
         | moistbar wrote:
         | I was thinking it sounded beyond arrogant. Wording like that is
         | a surefire way to get me not to use your product.
        
           | eCa wrote:
           | It's a quote from Gruber's review, not from the maker of
           | Hush.
        
             | moistbar wrote:
             | Whoops.
        
         | dunkeylim wrote:
         | Always a reason to criticize everything.
        
       | llacb47 wrote:
       | So this is basically a wrapper for Fanboy's cookie monster list?
       | This is really nothing special IMO.
       | 
       | Plus, the fact that the filters are inside of the app source and
       | not fetched from a remote repo means that filtering errors
       | (false-positives) will take hours or maybe days to be fixed, as
       | the dev will need to push out an update (or pull Fanboy's
       | upstream fixes), it will need to be approved by Apple, and then
       | the user will need to update the entire extension.
       | 
       | Compare this with uBo or Adguard, where one can manually check
       | for updates and pull a new version of a single filter list or
       | every filter list in ten seconds. In uBo, the user can also
       | badfilter the offending line in the list or disable uBo from
       | running on a specific domain.
       | 
       | In general, as evidenced from this issue list, cookie consent
       | lists are somewhat problematic and can break sites. Some of these
       | issues may be fixed by now. https://github.com/ryanbr/fanboy-
       | adblock/issues?q=%22easylis...
        
         | radicaldreamer wrote:
         | All these "apps" are required because Apple doesn't allow
         | extensions like uBo to work with Safari and they force
         | ("strongly encourage") developers who want to create simple
         | extensions to go through and make a whole app with the right
         | entitlements on both iOS and Mac.
        
         | galad87 wrote:
         | It doesn't need to be approved by Apple. The app can download a
         | new list directly. Or run in background and update the list
         | when needed.
        
           | kitsunesoba wrote:
           | Yes, Wipr does exactly this. Safari content blocker extension
           | blocklists don't have to be static -- the host app and (I
           | think) native extension code can modify blocklists as needed.
        
           | llacb47 wrote:
           | Yes, but submitting a new version is what the dev is doing,
           | at least right now. https://github.com/oblador/hush/issues/13
           | #issuecomment-76639...
        
       | skycocker wrote:
       | It would be awesome if it worked on Google.com / YouTube.com and
       | some of my local news websites. Uninstalling for now, but I'll
       | try it again in a few weeks - the idea is very promising to me
       | and the world desperately needs this. My day just got better
       | thanks to this developer, even though there is still room for
       | improvement. Good luck!
        
       | terramex wrote:
       | Your mileage may vary but the first 3 websites I opened after
       | installing it:
       | 
       | - https://twitter.com/ still shows cookie banner at the bottom
       | 
       | - https://botland.com.pl still shows cookie banner at the bottom
       | 
       | - https://www.17track.net started showing "You are seeing this
       | message because ad or script blocking software is interfering
       | with this page." at the bottom of the page and asked me to solve
       | a captcha
        
         | ronyfadel wrote:
         | I'd recommend you file an issue (or even better, a pull
         | request) at https://github.com/oblador/hush/issues
        
           | swinglock wrote:
           | May be better to report it to Fanboy. This app seem to be
           | almost entirely based on it. Doing so helps many more users
           | than those of this app. Are improvements upstreamed or does
           | it just piggyback?
           | 
           | https://github.com/oblador/hush/tree/master/data
        
             | jccalhoun wrote:
             | Good point. If you are already using an adblocker and are
             | interested in this then you can just ad the fanboy list
             | from easylist to your adblocker.
        
               | unicornporn wrote:
               | Fanboy's Annoyance should already have what Fanboy's
               | Cookiemonster List has. And, it's one of the default, but
               | not activated, lists in uBlock Origin.
               | 
               | Note that neither Safari nor Chrome are good choices if
               | you want an effective adblocker these days.
               | 
               | Firefox, use it.
        
           | bagacrap wrote:
           | for every site you visit? yeah no thanks
        
             | pensatoio wrote:
             | I think you're setting unreasonable expectations. Ad
             | blocking has years of work behind it, and it still isn't an
             | exact science. Cookie banners are even harder, because they
             | usually only come in the form of an element that blends in.
        
               | Waterluvian wrote:
               | That's kind of the point. The solution is one by one
               | blacklisting?
               | 
               | If so it needs to be better than making tickets. What
               | about a system to hide the elements manually and that
               | action feeds into a database?
        
               | colejohnson66 wrote:
               | Have you ever looked at a blocklist? It's literally
               | _thousands upon thousands_ of rules. And you blocking
               | something shouldn't add it to a list because what you
               | block may not be what someone else wants blocked.
        
           | ludwigschubert wrote:
           | It turns out the author links a Google Form for reporting
           | problems in the app:
           | 
           | https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSeox139lwja1Yl94dIZ.
           | ..
        
       | riggsdk wrote:
       | I find their privacy policy rather disturbing.
       | 
       | Basically they initially say no data ever leaves the device but
       | then they go on to say:
       | 
       | 1) in case of a problem they gather detailed log data
       | 
       | 2) They "may" store third party tracking cookies
       | 
       | 3) Third parties will get access to my personal information
       | (though they seem to promise they won't abuse it) hmm
       | 
       | 4) They directly write that they can't guarantee the safety of my
       | personal information
       | 
       | I think I'll pass on this one.
       | 
       | Privacy policy: https://hush-1.flycricket.io/privacy.html
       | 
       | The extension was also posted here (where I originally posted the
       | above comment):
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=trastknast
        
         | trastknast wrote:
         | Author here. Apple requires you to have a privacy policy
         | available online to even submit the an app for review. I used
         | this from a generator I found online with the intention to
         | update this one in the next app submission to point to the
         | repo, but it blew up yesterday and just haven't gotten around
         | to doing that yet. No bad intentions, what's said on the
         | website is true, and you can verify that in the code.
        
           | trastknast wrote:
           | I quickly pushed up the draft I had locally and will submit
           | an update to App Store, but they have to review it before it
           | goes public. Feedback welcome!
           | https://github.com/oblador/hush/blob/master/PRIVACY.md
        
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       (page generated 2021-01-24 23:01 UTC)