[HN Gopher] Is Mathematics Real? (2020)
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       Is Mathematics Real? (2020)
        
       Author : happy-go-lucky
       Score  : 10 points
       Date   : 2021-01-24 13:52 UTC (9 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (theconversation.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (theconversation.com)
        
       | sunstone wrote:
       | Mathematics is not embodied by any of the entities of physics and
       | to that extent it is not real.
        
       | victor106 wrote:
       | what are some good resources/books to learn the
       | thoughts/debates/ideas that forced us to create/discover say for
       | example concepts like complex numbers or logarithms or calculus
       | etc.,
        
       | teucris wrote:
       | "God made the integers, all else is the work of man"
       | 
       | I'm not sure if even that is true. Integer counts and succession
       | seem like human constructs to me. An apple isn't fundamentally a
       | single unit. If I take a bite out of it, is it still one apple?
        
         | bluepoint wrote:
         | I think this is a really good comment. Are you implying that
         | the concept of integer is a consequence of the abstraction of
         | an apple, an abstraction which is entirely human? I really like
         | this point of view.
        
           | teucris wrote:
           | That's exactly what I'm saying. I'm glad you like it!
        
         | LambdaTrain wrote:
         | This quote is neither true nor false. The author called it a
         | "sentiment", but I think when Kronecker made this statement, he
         | took it as some kind of principle to work out the foundation of
         | modern mathematics.
         | 
         | Basically the mathematical notion of integer is trying to make
         | sense of our idea of a discrete unit. Taking a bite of apple
         | makes it non-unit, but I think you would agree that the notion
         | of "one apple" or "two dogs" makes common sense.
         | 
         | Also when reading someone's quote, I would always consider its
         | context. I think Kronecket had the axiomatic construction of
         | real number in mind. The idea of rational number and real
         | number can be investigated by just assuming the idea of
         | increment by one is solid.
         | 
         | These mathematical concepts are usually covered in a
         | undergraduate analysis class. For more information, see
         | Cauchy's construction and Dadekind's construction.
        
           | LambdaTrain wrote:
           | Add: so the idea is that once we have integers, we can
           | construct rationals and even real numbers instead of talking
           | about reals as granted. Now when taking a bite out of an
           | apple, we can say it takes, say 1/3, of an apple, while we
           | only assume the idea of integers.
        
           | teucris wrote:
           | > assuming the idea of increment by one is solid.
           | 
           | Therein lies the rub! Succession is a human concept. All math
           | is a magnificent city built upon that one stone.
        
         | sound1 wrote:
         | Well at least according to the friends I have beer with over
         | the weekends, real world is a subset of math we invented. It is
         | a tool we invented to describe the universe, but I am not sure
         | if everything we derive from the axioms is true. (eg.
         | discontinuous functions make me a little uncomfortable)
         | 
         | Disclaimer: I am very poor at math but eager to learn :)
        
       | ukj wrote:
       | Category theorist: What is the universal property for "realness"?
       | 
       | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_property
        
       | MikeBVaughn wrote:
       | I've always been interested by the Platonist-vs-anti-Platonist
       | debate. I generally disagree with finitist mathematicians, but I
       | really do find their position interesting, and as a computer
       | scientist I'm not unsympathetic to their perspective.
       | 
       | At the end of the day, though, I always go back to an old joke my
       | undergrad philsophy professor told me:
       | 
       | Analytic Philosopher A: "Hey, do you believe in baptism?"
       | 
       | Analytic Philsopopher B: "Believe in it? Hell, I've been to one."
        
         | klyrs wrote:
         | Me: I believe in any number that I can represent with my
         | computer
         | 
         | Professor: I am suddenly concerned that my PhD student does not
         | believe in induction
         | 
         | Me: I am suddenly concerned that my PhD supervisor does not
         | know the difference between converse and contrapositive
        
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