[HN Gopher] Raspberry Pi as x2go "thin" client
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       Raspberry Pi as x2go "thin" client
        
       Author : indigodaddy
       Score  : 99 points
       Date   : 2021-01-23 10:03 UTC (12 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.multi-seat.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.multi-seat.com)
        
       | denysvitali wrote:
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       | 
       | F
        
         | philtar wrote:
         | F
        
       | geek_at wrote:
       | Would this also work with remote Windows RDP sessions?
        
         | indigodaddy wrote:
         | No, but there are Linux RDP clients (such as Remmina) you can
         | use which I would imagine would also work well from a Pi.
        
         | nullify88 wrote:
         | No but I think installing something like
         | https://guacamole.apache.org/ could work well.
        
         | 2Gkashmiri wrote:
         | yes. any darn thing that can run a rdp client can work. i have
         | been using a 512mb thin client on a big fat windows 10 machine
         | for more than 4 years now you can most definitely use any Rpi
        
         | Renaud wrote:
         | For those looking to make Rpi into RDP clients, there is TLXOS-
         | RPi[1].
         | 
         | The license is cheap and it works in multi-monitor mode as
         | well[2].
         | 
         | [1]:https://tls.thinlinx.com/store/index.php/thinclient/tlxos-
         | rp... [2]:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rsob_pQXnCM
        
       | veddox wrote:
       | We use such a setup for the students' computer lab at our
       | research institute. Great way to get a lot of cheap work stations
       | and introduce students to Linux and server computing.
       | 
       | Although one should also mention that the Pis are a little too
       | slow for ,,serious" work, and x2go can be buggy.
        
       | jkh1 wrote:
       | I've been working from home for almost a year using a Pi4B
       | running remmina. The other end is a Dell workstation running
       | x11vnc on Ubuntu 16.04. I've only experienced occasional hiccups
       | that I've narrowed down to things interfering with the Pi wifi
       | reception when it's in a heatsink case.
        
       | acomjean wrote:
       | I worked at a place that swapped out our HP pa-risc workstations
       | for sun ray thin client machines. I actually didn't mind as the
       | network was pretty fast.
       | 
       | The raspberry pi is a competent little computer and probably way
       | more capable than those "sun" ray thin clients
       | 
       | https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sun_Ray
        
         | cpach wrote:
         | We had Sun rays at uni. I kinda liked them.
        
       | whalesalad wrote:
       | How's the experience of working on it? I've been struggling to
       | get a decent remote setup even in my home lab due to network
       | latency. Could be because I'm trying to drive 4K. Even Win10 RDP
       | over a 1300mbps network struggles. I wonder if I need to bite the
       | bullet and install a real graphics card in the R720.
       | 
       | Would love to hear more experiences of others who remote this way
       | where you are "offloading" your compute power elsewhere.
        
         | pjmlp wrote:
         | I work with RDP almost every day for several years now, hardly
         | been a problem.
         | 
         | In fact just yesterday while I could easily connect with RDP,
         | Slack was just dying when trying to share screens.
        
         | amryl wrote:
         | You could try solutions oriented toward gaming like Parsec or
         | Nvidia Gamestream with Moonlight. They use hardware
         | acceleration for video encoding and may have better latency
         | than RDP.
         | 
         | https://parsec.app/
         | 
         | https://moonlight-stream.org/
        
         | cbhl wrote:
         | If you're trying to drive 4K, I would look at the power of the
         | thin client, and maybe try putting a graphics card there,
         | rather than in the server.
         | 
         | I'd also check your choice of RDP client -- are you using the
         | official Microsoft client or a FOSS one? I believe there are
         | extensions to RDP that basically wrap H.264, which you'd
         | probably want at that resolution.
        
         | tyingq wrote:
         | What switch/router is it going through? There's a lot of
         | gigabit hardware that can't push gigabit speeds.
        
           | whalesalad wrote:
           | I have a totally over-engineered UniFi setup at home. I'm
           | pretty confident the network is not the issue.
           | 
           | I experience the performance issues on the LAN, for instance,
           | even with a 1,300mbps negotiated connection.
        
             | tyingq wrote:
             | Ah, okay. And I guess you've already played with various
             | group policy around compression, gpu acceleration
             | (RemoteFX) , etc, for RDP.
        
               | whalesalad wrote:
               | RemoteFX is something I had not heard of - will take a
               | look!
        
               | zamadatix wrote:
               | RemoteFX will enable both GPU acceleration in apps as
               | well as GPU acceleration in the RDP session encode but...
               | 
               | RDP is still only limited to 30 FPS for whatever reason
               | and so you may continue to be disappointed in it.
               | 
               | Also 1,300 Mbps sounds like a wireless network so your
               | main problem on the network side is being half duplex and
               | airtime delays (even from just beacons) not throughput.
               | I'd pick a 100 Mbps hardwire to RDP on over any Wi-Fi
               | setup as the video bandwidth isn't actually that helpful
               | but jitter/latency are problems with trying to send
               | inputs at the same time. Not much you can do about that
               | though.
        
               | gruez wrote:
               | Doesn't remote fx require special hardware/os on the host
               | side?
        
               | deburo wrote:
               | Do you even struggle with RDP when you're on the same
               | network?
               | 
               | We also have an R720 at work, running a Windows Server
               | 2016 under Hyper-V and it performs very poorly (Windows
               | UI is super slow, etc.). I know next to nothing about
               | physical servers, but I've had great success swapping
               | HDDs for SSDs in laptops to dramatically increase
               | Windows' modern UI's performance. Our R720 has HDDs
               | instead of SSDs, I've thought of upgrading them to see
               | how it works out.
               | 
               | If you ever find a solution, please let me know.
        
               | whalesalad wrote:
               | Yes! I am having the same issue, but I have a mixture of
               | old school 10k SAS disks and a bunch of desktop grade
               | SATA SSDs.
               | 
               | Windows performance on this machine is atrocious
               | (virtualized in ESXI) whereas Linux is great.
        
         | stedaniels wrote:
         | I connect from Windows 10 client to a Windows 10 host using RDP
         | driving dual 4K and it feels like native, though I mostly just
         | use single 4K. This it's my daily driver over a standard UK
         | fibre to the cabinet (FTTC) connection client end to a gigabit
         | connection host side.
         | 
         | I'm generally using office, internet, Windows terminals/ssh,
         | IDEs etc. Very rarely an overly dramatic full page video advert
         | will jolt me back to reality that I'm doing this over RDP.
        
         | beagle3 wrote:
         | I saw you wrote that you don't think the network is your
         | problem, but it could be. The 1300mbps and UniFI makes me think
         | you are using a wireless connection, and those often deliver
         | much lower bandwidth than they should, and always have more
         | latency than I expect.
         | 
         | Use a wired 1Gbps connection. If it works acceptably -- which
         | it has in every single setting I've tried -- then it _is_ your
         | network, though it might not be where you usually look (e.g.
         | speedtest measures your overall bandwidth, but if you have many
         | retransmits, you might have horrible interactive experience
         | even with sufficient bandwidth).
        
           | whalesalad wrote:
           | I should note the same thing happens while hardwired. I
           | definitely wanted to rule it out.
        
             | watersb wrote:
             | Is your Ubiquiti box doing Deep Packet Inspection over your
             | home network?
             | 
             | It might be frantically trying to look at every packet
             | flying by.
        
       | buserror wrote:
       | I use x2go all the time, I have one single big workstation, and
       | the laptops and the "thin" machine in my lab are tethered to it
       | all the time, even when outside, via wireguard.
       | 
       | I'm not surprised a raspi can do that, as I've used an antique
       | thinkpad x201 for doing it for many many years now!
        
         | raphinou wrote:
         | I'm using freerdp client to connect to an xrdp server. I'm
         | positively surprised of the good user experience it provides on
         | a LAN. Anyone having hands-on experience comparing x2go and
         | xrdp?
        
           | posix_me_less wrote:
           | Do you know if there is a functioning xrdp server+client
           | combination for Linux? I would like to try to compare to
           | x2go. I tried some on opensuse last year but it didn't work.
        
             | raphinou wrote:
             | I'm successfully using the packages in ubuntu focal (20.04,
             | the latest LTS). It was nearly straight-forward: install
             | and run xrdp on the server, install package freerdp2-x11 on
             | the client. The only unintuitive thing was the keyboard
             | mapping to use, specified with an awkward value passed to
             | the /kbd flag.
        
           | buserror wrote:
           | I have not done a comparison, but RDP is mostly pixel based
           | from what I understand, while x2go is "protocol" based (and
           | therefore limited to xorg/x11), so it's a LOT quicker than
           | say, VNC (even with compression) -- for example, if you drag
           | a window around, it's perfectly "instant" -- there is no lag.
           | 
           | I can develop using geany/vscode/eclipse remotely over a
           | reasonably good DSL/fibre connection and quite frankly, there
           | is zero difference with being "local" to the workstation.
           | Don't even need a LAN.
           | 
           | Only thing which obviously doesn't work as good is web
           | browsing/video etc as that is inherently a lot more pixel
           | pushing.
        
           | peckrob wrote:
           | I used to use cheap Wyse Winterms in a configuration like
           | this years ago. They could be had for about $20 a pop used on
           | eBay 15 years go. A quick look now confirms they can still be
           | had for about $15-20 each. Pair with xrdp on a server and it
           | works great.
        
       | intricatedetail wrote:
       | Is it really worth posting? I mean it's like "PC as a photo
       | editing machine" and then describe how you install the Photoshop.
       | Come on HN you can do better!
        
       | zaggynl wrote:
       | Site died, mirror:
       | https://web.archive.org/web/20210123100731/http:/www.multi-s...
        
         | indigodaddy wrote:
         | Thanks. Perhaps a mod should replace the URL with the archived
         | one.
        
       | hedora wrote:
       | A few years ago, on my raspberry pi 3, tigervnc was almost fast
       | enough to drive fullscreen video. I had to recompile the jpeg
       | library to switch to turbojpeg and rebuild tigervnc against that.
       | 
       | Hopefully this "just works" now on a raspberry pi 4 and newer
       | raspbian, but I haven't checked.
        
         | cat199 wrote:
         | was doing this with a pi2 and some tweaked default settings
         | pretty successfully - don't recall what - but I think turning
         | _off_ jpeg compression helped because the CPU didn 't have to
         | process the stream as much
        
       | tyingq wrote:
       | The X96 max referenced on the same site looks pretty neat. It's a
       | little Android TV box that appears to be ~$30 or so if you order
       | from China, or ~$65 from Amazon. http://www.multi-
       | seat.com/x96-max/
        
         | watersb wrote:
         | X96 even has an LED clock display, so you can make it blink
         | 12:00 all the time, just like the real machines.
        
       | SixThreeOne wrote:
       | I've been doing something similar, but I've had good luck using
       | nomachine. My host machine is a Kubuntu VM running on my Proxmox
       | server, and I switch between using a desktop and laptop as
       | guests, also connecting in remotely via wireguard when away from
       | home (which honestly isn't very much these days).
       | 
       | I tried using xrdp before, but, at least at the time I tried it a
       | few years back, personally felt I got better performance with
       | nomachine vs. xrdp, although perhaps this has changed now. I've
       | tried x2go with individual applications before, but never the
       | entire desktop, perhaps I'll have to give that a try sometime.
        
       | Kaknut wrote:
       | Haha.... HN traffic killed the server but anyways the new
       | offering from Raspberry in indeed a great microcontroller from
       | projects.
       | 
       | Ordered it.
        
       | 6gvONxR4sf7o wrote:
       | The capabilities of using a tiny client for a beefy/flexible
       | server seem to be getting better and more mature as robust
       | clients get cheap and bandwidth get solid. I love it. I've been
       | very very slowly using AWS as my "computer" more and more. S3 is
       | a wonderfully cheap infinite hard drive and I never have to worry
       | about migrating scripts. And EC2 is as flexible as computing
       | gets. And since I need to recreate everything every time I boot
       | up, reproducibility is a must, but that's easy when you have it
       | from the get go.
       | 
       | I kinda worry about the economical likely next steps of using a
       | thin client like a raspberry pi, like everything will become
       | netflix/stadia and you never own the important bits.
       | 
       | But on the technical side it's really great.
        
         | plg wrote:
         | I would love to read a blog post about your setup and your
         | routine using this arrangement.
        
       | 2Gkashmiri wrote:
       | meh. if you are on windows you should check rdpwrap. i personally
       | dont give a rats ass about "licensing". using kms38 on ltsc. then
       | use krdc or remmina or whatever and that works beautifully.
       | 
       | it just has to be updated whenever windows gets a new update,
       | lets say every 6 months or so, im not sure
       | 
       | other than that, i have never used linux as a "server" but i
       | guess the performance would be equally good.
        
       | nikolay wrote:
       | I used to use x2go for years, but the slow and buggy clients on
       | macOS and Windows is the biggest drawback. Maybe one day it will
       | get native clients and quickly become the standard.
        
       | znpy wrote:
       | I wonder how things like X2Go and LTSP (Linux Terminal Server
       | Project) will be re-implemented when Wayland will take over.
        
         | znpy wrote:
         | Lol i'm getting downvoted (by Wayland fanboys I guess) but no
         | answer so far
        
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