[HN Gopher] Study Reveals Immune Driver of Brain Aging
___________________________________________________________________
Study Reveals Immune Driver of Brain Aging
Author : oedmarap
Score : 145 points
Date : 2021-01-22 13:09 UTC (9 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (med.stanford.edu)
(TXT) w3m dump (med.stanford.edu)
| nickelcitymario wrote:
| Because an awful lot of this goes over my head, can anyone tell
| me if these findings could potentially apply to all auto-immune
| diseases? Or just those related to the brain?
| theflyinghorse wrote:
| > an awful lot I am lucky to understand 10% maybe. I wish there
| was a scientific journal which would dumb it down for the
| layman.
| nostromo wrote:
| This reminds me of Rapamycin, an immunosuppressant that also
| makes most animals live much longer -- something longevity
| hackers are experimenting with now.
| magoghm wrote:
| Some day we are going to discover how to apply all research
| results like this one, and we'll end up with the healthiest mice
| ever :)
| helge9210 wrote:
| ...in mice (c)
| Wowfunhappy wrote:
| ^ This probably needs "in mice" integrated into the title somehow
| --but it's still a cool article.
| gnicholas wrote:
| Looks like they've done this with mice and with cultured human
| cells.
|
| > _If their findings in old mice and in human cell cultures
| apply to actual humans, they could presage the pharmaceutically
| managed recovery of older people's mental abilities._
| retzkek wrote:
| A study from 2014 [^1] indicated that prolonged fasting (2-5
| days) caused the regeneration of immune cells and "reversed age-
| dependent myeloid-bias in mice". I don't have the knowledge to
| fully understand the implications of this, but it seems it
| supports reports that fasting has positive effects on aging-
| related brain degeneration.
|
| I fast semi-regularly (I'm just finishing up a four-day fast),
| and it amazes me how often we by default reach for something
| (e.g. pills) to put into our bodies to solve or improve
| something, when sometimes the answer is to _not_ put something
| (i.e. food) in it (at least for a little bit). It's also a great
| exercise in self-control and discipline.
|
| ^1: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/24905167/
| wizzwizz4 wrote:
| Original paper: https://doi.org/10.1038/s41586-020-03160-0
| swader999 wrote:
| From the paper: In ageing macrophages and microglia, PGE2
| signalling through its EP2 receptor promotes the sequestration
| of glucose into glycogen, reducing glucose flux and
| mitochondrial respiration. This energy-deficient state, which
| drives maladaptive pro-inflammatory responses, is further
| augmented by a dependence of aged myeloid cells on glucose as a
| principal fuel source. - I wonder if fasting helps reduce this.
| treeman79 wrote:
| Brain fog is common with autoimmune conditions.
|
| Often one of the first symptoms that cause people to seek a
| diagnosis.
|
| Have Sjogrens. Cognitive decline is a real issue for me.
| Treatment and lifestyle changes make a huge difference.
|
| Basically controlling inflammation becomes your life. Or you
| won't have much of one.
| forgotmypw17 wrote:
| What are your strategies for avoiding inflammation?
| dualthro wrote:
| Absolutely, I'm right there with you. I had 3 different doctors
| tell me I was crazy before I said fuck this. The most helpful
| book that I have found is "Why Isn't My Brain Working?" [1] by
| Dr. Datis Kharrazian, he is both an MD and a naturopath. Lots
| and lots of insights into why the brain fog is happening, and
| even more advice on diet, lifestyle and supplementation
| measures to minimize it.
|
| I seem to have some dietary autoimmune stuff going on as well
| which is incredibly difficult to deal with, my friends know me
| as that person who brings home cooked food around everywhere,
| as I know there are no spices or grains that will set me off.
| Eating out I usually just order a salad with no croutons, no
| cheese, no nightshades, no dressing outside of olive oil, and a
| meat to go on it. But even then, if the meat has spices, I'm in
| trouble.
|
| [1] http://brainhealthbook.com/ -- also available on the large
| book piracy site
| atian wrote:
| I haven't found anything else to be as helpful than Redbull
| (with actual sugar) for inflammatory brain fog. More on the
| sugar, but the B6 and Niacin help to bypass whatever it is
| wrong with brain energetics when inflamed.
|
| It doesn't have to be Redbull, but where else are you going to
| get 30g of sugar and a few helpful vitamins out in the wild.
| tayo42 wrote:
| How do you know your not just addicted to caffeine?
| atian wrote:
| I've determined it's not the the caffeine amount from the
| coffee I drink on the side.
| datameta wrote:
| An alternative would be to make some tea/coffee/yerba mate,
| sweeten it, and take a B-complex vitamin. Now you know
| exactly what you're getting and what you aren't. For the
| record, excess sugar and processed/packaged/canned goods
| highly correlate with inflammation in my own experience.
|
| Also there was a study that showed greater than 160mg of
| caffeine per day may increase inflammation in those
| predisposed to it, whereas the group that consumed <120mg had
| no negative effects. Can try to dig it up if someone is
| interested.
| nitrogen wrote:
| _Now you know exactly what you 're getting and what you
| aren't._
|
| If I remember right, the only ingredients in Red Bull not
| listed by name are the artificial flavors (and maybe some
| colors). And those have to be drawn from GRAS don't they?
|
| It's always seemed strange to me that we are more willing
| to trust plants with thousands of unknown chemicals, over a
| simple energy drink with like ten chemicals, all listed.
| [deleted]
| MetalGuru wrote:
| What have been the most effective lifestyle changes you've
| made? And how long did it take you before noticing their
| effects? Hope they continue working for you!
| treeman79 wrote:
| Support groups are best. Knowing your not alone. A safe place
| to ask questions. Facebook groups are biggest and best.
| Reddit has a lot too. Various podcasts and foundations. From
| these you start seeing patterns in what works for people, how
| to find doctors.
|
| For me.
|
| In order of improvement. Prescription: plaqunial. Blood
| thinners.
|
| Avoiding flare triggers, Sun, heat, most foods.
|
| Diet is huge. Autoimmune protocol diet is best for me.
| Similar to keto, etc. Personally I'll eat a lot of sweet
| potatoes when I need relief. Safest food I have found.
|
| Supplement: Vit D, magnesium, Vit E, fish oil, B complex,
| CQ-10 turmeric.
|
| Autoimmune often means a lot of secondary conditions, or
| autoimmune is the secondary.
|
| Increased cranial pressure is somewhat common with Sjogrens
| for example. High pressure is brutal on the mind and body.
|
| Went from bed ridden in horrific agony all day to kayaking or
| equivalent every weekend.
| dualthro wrote:
| Could you please provide links to these reddit support
| groups, and podcasts and foundations?
|
| Have you tried using the mushroom [extract] Cordyceps as a
| supplement? It seems to help abate some symptoms when I eat
| an autoimmune triggering food.
| 7thaccount wrote:
| Wait...isn't cordyceps the fungus that takes over ants,
| bursts out of their skull, and then cause them to effect
| others? That sounds like something I'd run away from at
| full speed.
| dualthro wrote:
| Do you have a link with more info? I just popped 2 of
| these [1] an hour ago as I had eaten some kind of
| food/protein bar that tasted like it contains pea
| protein, a known trigger of mine. I live in a country
| where I can't read the language so I'm not sure exactly
| what I ate.
|
| https://www.nowfoods.com/supplements/cordyceps-750-mg-
| veg-ca...
| wizzwizz4 wrote:
| The Wikipedia article contains basically all the
| information in this bit of the thread, but accurate:
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cordyceps
| 7thaccount wrote:
| Google zombie ants. Maybe it's ok for people?
| treeman79 wrote:
| https://www.facebook.com/groups/476448932387693/?ref=shar
| e
|
| /r/Sjogrens /iih
|
| Podcast Sjogrens Strong
|
| Good resource Sjogrens foundation John Hopkins Sjogren
| foundation for more up to date testing and articles
| wtetzner wrote:
| Have you looked into the Carnivore Code in regards to
| autoimmune issues? https://carnivoremd.com/book/
|
| It's full of useful information even if you don't intend to
| go full carnivore.
| datameta wrote:
| It makes me so happy to read this! I too have had a drastic
| transformation in terms of life quality.
|
| I second the Anti-inflammatory diet and exercise (even just
| walking contributes greatly). I echo the supplement
| suggestions and also recommend glucosamine+chondroitin
| (which happens to lower all-cause mortality significantly).
|
| Red meats (high omega 6 content), deeply fried foods,
| gluten (plenty of grain alternatives to wheat and corn),
| uncultured dairy (cheese seems ok, plenty of alt-milks out
| there), and sugar not from fruit can trigger inflammation
| for me. I might describe my diet as vegan+eggs+fish (ovo-
| pescaterian?)
|
| There is a wealth of information online to tailor one's
| diet. Honestly - this is a diet that everyone can benefit
| from health wise.
| dualthro wrote:
| I'm jealous that you can eat grains! Any kind sets me off
| unfortunately. And yeah it took me a while to realize but
| any kind of fried food is bad for me. So even eating
| coconut tortilla chips sets me off, despite the fact that
| they contain no grain. I am hopeful that in the future,
| more paleo / autoimmune paleo targeting brands come out.
| There was already a pleasantly surprising amount of
| brands catering to this, last time I was at a whole
| foods.
|
| For those who can't tolerate dairy, or any kinds of nuts
| or seeds or grains, one kind of food that you might enjoy
| is coconut yogurt. Not cheap but it helps to break some
| of the dietary monotony.
| datameta wrote:
| Ah, that's a shame... Nuts and seeds actually make me
| feel a lot better (was my only snack for a while, when I
| couldn't eat fruit) and I feel lucky to be able to eat
| brown rice. If I eat wheat-based pasta or bread however,
| my body will let me know in minutes.
|
| It really is awesome that we can find what fits us with
| large store brands that deliver! Never knew how many
| forms of vegan protein exist out there
| uyt wrote:
| How do you bring up the topic of brain fog to your doctor?
|
| Can I really just say some days I feel dumber than usual and
| he'll be able to diagnose and fix me?
| treeman79 wrote:
| My experience was that almost all doctors will declare you
| depressed.
|
| I printed out 4 page list of all the weird symptoms I had,
| and what affected me.
|
| One crazy old neurologist-ophthalmologist read the list and
| declared I had Sjogrens. Something I had not considered.
|
| Through research and Support groups I found out my symptoms
| were normal, and mostly ignored by doctors.
| notabee wrote:
| Seconding this experience. Western medicine is bad in
| general at treating chronic conditions that aren't
| immediately life threatening, but you would really think
| that general doctors would be more aware of autoimmune
| issues considering how common they are.
|
| For anyone going through this fresh hell currently, I'd
| estimate my hit rate at about one out of 6 or 7 for doctors
| who'll actually look in depth versus those who were
| apparently just good at memorizing things for tests and
| can't diagnose their way out of a wet paper bag. If you
| haven't gotten at least that many opinions and are still
| suffering, keep trying.
|
| Also, quacks are a problem too. Too many of those promising
| cure-alls.
| treeman79 wrote:
| Most doctors think Sjogrens means dry mouth and dry eyes.
| They advise eye drops and gum.
|
| I basically quiz doctors until I find one that knows the
| basics. I have a rheumatologist. But if I need forms
| filled out only a PCP will unusually do that. Unless they
| don't, then your screwed royal.
| AQuantized wrote:
| This has been my experience with some ongoing/recent
| neurological symptoms. Ahidrosis, brain fog, reduced
| sensation, the list goes on. No doctor has outright said it
| was wholly a mental issue, but they're basically only
| willing to prescribe antidepressants or benzos. Sadly for
| most obscure problems you have to seek out help yourself.
| erentz wrote:
| WRT reduced sensation and sweating: you may want to find
| a neurologist who deals with dysautonomia, and maybe get
| autonomic function testing done. Also look into small
| fiber neuropathy. There are support groups for these on
| FB and the like that may have useful information or
| referrals to good doctors. A lot of doctors hear small
| fiber neuropathy and only think diabetes. But it's
| frequently associated with dysautonomia, progressive and
| autoimmune/inflammatory in origin.
| treeman79 wrote:
| I have reduced sweating. It sucks big time.
|
| Best I can tell its from Sjogrens Or neuropathy problems
| from Sjogrens.
|
| Also dysatonomia is often caused by IIH. Treating IIH,
| drastically improved symptoms. Literally draining off
| spinal fluid.
| dualthro wrote:
| Can salt intake/blood pressure affect IIH at all?
| treeman79 wrote:
| Yes. Blood pressure pills help out. Salt is weird.
|
| Oddly salt can at times improve IIH. But it's not
| something to mess around with.
|
| Basically too much water causes organs to swell. Most
| organs handle this well enough. Brain will swell, but has
| no room to do so.
|
| A big dose of salt will draw water out of organs,
| including brains.
|
| Very good medical case I read up on, but can't find now.
|
| A lot of Sjogrens people recommend adding pink salt to
| water or other hydration packs.
|
| Pure water seems to worsen dehydration. I have found this
| to true.
|
| Be careful as this is a complicated thing, and can hurt
| yourself by having too much or too little.
| paperwasp42 wrote:
| A veterinarian was the one who diagnosed me with Addison's
| disease, after noticing that my neuromuscular symptoms were
| similar to German Shepherds with the condition. This was
| after seeing 5+ human specialists who either couldn't
| figure out what was wrong, or (more commonly) didn't
| believe anything was wrong.
|
| Addison's is deadly if left untreated. According to my
| endocrinologist, I was scarily close to death.
|
| Doctors are quick to discourage patients from "Googling
| their symptoms", but patients (and their veterinary
| friends, lol) need to advocate for themselves. If I hadn't
| taken the tip about Addison's seriously and demanded tests
| from my primary care, I could very well be dead.
| cstejerean wrote:
| One of the things I discovered a few years ago is that I
| can order my own lab tests and pay out of pocket (in the
| US, not sure how this works in other countries with
| functional healthcare systems). This way instead of
| wasting 1 doctor visit on ordering a test I can go to my
| doctor directly with test results in hand and discuss any
| outliers, etc
| paperwasp42 wrote:
| Yes, this is a brilliant development!
| kgin wrote:
| In New York state, it's illegal to get any kind of
| medical testing without a doctor's order. Very
| frustrating.
| treeman79 wrote:
| This has been one of the things slowing me down.
|
| Some tests took over a year for me to get run.
|
| Some I still haven't.
|
| Other more exotic tests were super easy to get.
| zingermc wrote:
| Wow, does this apply to Covid tests?
| treeman79 wrote:
| You have to do your own research. You will be dismissed
| as a hypochondriac. Learning to live with all the labels
| from a chronic condition is one of the hardest parts.
| paperwasp42 wrote:
| > Learning to live with all the labels from a chronic
| condition is one of the hardest parts.
|
| If this isn't the truest thing. It's very difficult when
| you have doctors--who society tells you to deeply respect
| --calling you a lazy liar.
|
| I don't think I would have been diagnosed if I didn't
| have a supportive family who insisted it wasn't "all in
| my head" and that I needed to keep searching for answers.
| It's very easy to start believing what the doctors say,
| no matter how loudly your body is screaming otherwise.
|
| And then there's the opinions of general people... It's
| surprising how ignorant highly-educated engineers can be
| about medical issues. Again, I credit my family and
| friends for having kept my sanity all these years.
| wtetzner wrote:
| Interesting that it was a veterinarian that diagnosed
| you. I've noticed a pattern of veterinarians seemingly
| being better doctors than human doctors. They seem to pay
| more attention to current research and continue their
| learning, and rely less on what they learned 20 years ago
| in med school.
| paperwasp42 wrote:
| Agreed. They are perhaps the most underestimated
| professionals in the medical field.
|
| They don't just memorize information about one species,
| they need to know how to treat 5+. They do all their work
| without the patient giving verbal clues/feedback. And
| they often have limited resources/tests/treatments they
| can use to save a life.
|
| They are some of the most creative, intelligent, and
| passionate minds in society. Although I may be a bit
| biased, based on my experiences. ;)
| elliekelly wrote:
| > My experience was that almost all doctors will declare
| you depressed.
|
| This is so painfully true. My lupus was repeatedly treated
| with prozac despite my insistence that I didn't feel at all
| depressed.
| treeman79 wrote:
| Yep. Got PTSD from doctors.
| dualthro wrote:
| I saw 3 different doctors, they all just figured I was
| depressed. I then started reading and searching online like
| crazy, most helpful resource I've found so far is at
| http://brainhealthbook.com (also easily pirated), that author
| is both a naturopathic doctor and an MD.
|
| edit to add: You said 'diagnose and fix me' ... even if they
| can diagnose you, they won't be able to fix you. Just a
| warning. Best you can do is to manage the condition.
| Abishek_Muthian wrote:
| I wish you well and hope the treatment is successful.
|
| > Cognitive decline is a real issue for me.
|
| How do you track this? Do you have any self tests to keep the
| cognitive state in check or are they standard medical tests?
| treeman79 wrote:
| 2 ways. I started tracking my memory score over time.
| https://memtrax.com/ At my lowest it would frighten people to
| watch me take the test.
|
| "You just saw that image 3 times in the last 60 seconds" Me:
| I have never seen that image before. At my best I could
| outscore most anyone in the office.
|
| Second is more arbitrary, but more important.
|
| Been programming for decades. Since I was a kid. A task that
| normally would take me a few minutes might take me a week.
| Harder concepts were beyond me, felt like I was trying to
| tackle calculus after learning fractions. I "knew" I could do
| it, except I couldn't anymore.
|
| Then I would have some good days, and I would go around the
| office solving all the really hard problems for people.
| Abishek_Muthian wrote:
| As person with disabilities and physical health problems
| people are often at awe at me for how I go on with my life
| and now I'm looking at the same awe at you.
|
| Do you feel there's anything missing with memtrax or any
| other tool which can make your life easier i.e. help track
| your cognitive health or help your current lifestyle?
| treeman79 wrote:
| Time to diagnosed is one of the biggest things. Gig
| economy kept family off the street when I was at my
| worst.
|
| I had symptoms 20 years ago, serious problems 10 years
| that were warning signs of autoimmune.
|
| When it got really bad it was 20-40 doctor visits to get
| a diagnosis.
|
| It's the Second most common autoimmune condition, behind
| lupus.
|
| Also getting ride of American diet. A lot of people are
| predisposed to autoimmune, but need a trigger.
| dualthro wrote:
| Not OP but I live in a different country where I barely speak
| the language. I can turn on the TV in the morning and
| depending on how easy or difficult it is for me to parse what
| they are saying, tells me how sharp my mind is that day.
|
| Similarly to the sibling comment, I spent years struggling.
| There were points where I sat down to write a super simple
| Craigslist scraper and couldn't do it, my working memory was
| so poor that it was like I couldn't hold more than 2 or 3
| concepts or ideas/variables in my head at the same time. This
| task is something that I knew just a few years before I could
| have whipped up in 30 minutes or less.
| Abishek_Muthian wrote:
| Thank you for taking the time to answer.
|
| Do you use any tools like OP to help with your lifestyle? I
| know memory is a complex problem even for those who don't
| usually face explicit issues like you do; but does common
| memory retention practices like 'spaced repetition' made
| any positive improvements for you?
| dualthro wrote:
| Definitely. Most of the time I'm pretty sharp, although I
| definitely have days where I basically can't get anything
| done. I have just started using Anki to great effect
| (preparing for programming interviews is a nightmare if
| your brain is a sieve).
|
| Since I know that my symptoms are almost entirely caused
| by diet, I have written down everything that I've eaten,
| every supplement that I've taken, every hour that I've
| slept, every noise or pain I feel in my stomach, and
| information about all of my bowel movements since 2017.
|
| I thought I had things under control last year, and
| didn't take any notes for 2 months. Now I have an issue
| with H2S bacterial overgrowth, essentially a sulfur
| sensitivity. "If it can be measured, it can be managed."
|
| The fact that I moved to Europe in October to avoid the
| pandemic and election nonsense, hasn't helped me. There
| are tons of supplements and tests that I would be able to
| get in the states that are simply unavailable in the
| country that I'm residing in. Pretty frustrating, and
| tbh, I can't wait to get back, hopefully late
| spring/summer.
| RobRivera wrote:
| sorry to bother, but have any good source for identifying anti-
| inflammatory dietary choices? an old boss went antigluten to
| great effect (knee issues)
| treeman79 wrote:
| Look up Auto immune protocol diet.
|
| Theme is few carbs, but not exactly. Chicken, green
| vegetables and sweet potatoes are my life.
|
| I always regret cheating.
| dualthro wrote:
| Following the below diet changed my life for the better. Like
| night and day. I was able to get back into the software
| industry. I remember the summer that I started it, literally
| every week I felt like I was 10% smarter. And I also was
| regaining memories that I had completely lost prior to that.
| Kind of surreal.
|
| https://drknews.com/autoimmune-gut-repair-diet/
| solaxun wrote:
| Very interesting to hear your experiences. I have long
| suspected some sort of autoimmune condition (specifically
| undifferentiated spondyloarthropathy) resulting in me having
| similar symptoms. My first symptom was tendonitis, but I was 22
| back then (37 now) and very physically active so doctors just
| attributed it to overuse. Then both elbows tricep tendons
| developed enthesis and ossified at the insertion point. I have
| similar enthesis in basically every major joint now, and they
| still think it's from the exercise. I did push my limits with
| weights when younger but it's difficult to imagine that being
| the cause of all the issues I've had.
|
| Similar to you, CRP tests were fine and bloodwork was all good,
| however they did find I was positive for the HLA-B27 antigen
| which is a known marker for autoimmune conditions and only
| present in about 5% of the population, but present in 90-95% of
| those with spondylitis, so there's one red flag. The issue is
| as you mention, there is no definitive diagnoses until they see
| joint damage on X-ray, and by then you've missed years of
| potential intervening treatment.
|
| Eventually I developed brain fog like you describe, but it was
| gradual and difficult to tell if the symptoms were related.
| It's not always debilitating but I'd say 4/5 days I'm foggy to
| varying degree, and then one day where I'm about 3x sharper.
| I've learned to just ride the productivity wave those days and
| do mundane stuff other days.
|
| I thought it may be sleep related, and although getting more
| sleep does seem to give me a higher probability of a "good"
| day, it's not a panacea. There are days where even after 10
| hours I'm still foggy, and I can tell immediately upon waking
| up how the day will go.
|
| While I'm sympathetic to those who say googling your way to
| diagnoses can be harmful (and no doubt it may frustrate some
| doctors), I don't entirely agree. You have to live with your
| body and mind 24/7, and you have one and only one patient to
| care for - yourself. You will always be more motivated to find
| the answer than your doctor. A doctor cannot read your mind or
| feel your pain, and simply pattern matching symptoms is
| something anybody can do. It can never hurt IMO to go into the
| discussion informed and ask pointed questions.
|
| The medical field is an evolving science, they don't have all
| the answers, they don't even have most of the answers.
| o-__-o wrote:
| How do you manage your job with so many days being out of
| commission?
|
| I have noticed a drastic difference since catching COVID and
| fear the days of my youth being able to churn anything out on
| a whim is over
| solaxun wrote:
| On my out of commission days, I'm foggy but I can still get
| stuff done, I just won't be able to operate at the level I
| could on a good day. It's frustrating because you know your
| capabilities, but you just can't get there. Imagine running
| a 6 minute mile, and the next day you give it 100% and 8
| minutes is a struggle.
|
| I try to prioritize creative work, e.g. building something
| new, really hard problems, etc. for "good days", and I
| focus on work that I've already begun and can see the
| completion path for on bad days. I do occasionally have
| days where I'm totally useless, and if that happens I'll
| just do mundane rote tasks that I've been putting off.
| dsizzle wrote:
| There's a lot of discussion of "inflammation" in this thread,
| but does this mean anything other than "feeling bad" in
| practice? It seems C-reactive protein (CRP) is the main
| biomarker for inflammation. Do people get tested for CRP to
| diagnose their triggers? I don't think I've ever been tested
| for it. Will a typical GP give you a CRP test if you ask for
| one?
| nowandlater wrote:
| I see it in my lipid panel (there's heart disease risk in my
| family) so that may be one way to get it. But INAD and
| welcome other comments on how to ask for this; it may just be
| my gp.
| treeman79 wrote:
| At some point "feeling bad" turns into organ damage.
|
| CRP, is limited value test.
|
| In general my blood work is great, yet I have lots of
| internal damage. It's just not progressed enough to show up
| on typical blood tests.
|
| Various antigen tests can pick up on it.
| dualthro wrote:
| Which kind of antigen tests? I have had a CRP test that
| wasn't really indicative of any problems. I would love to
| be able to get a doctor to agree with me that there is
| something wrong.
| nojs wrote:
| Could you explain in some more detail how you know you have
| lots of internal damage?
| treeman79 wrote:
| Various Ultrasounds, cat scans. I basically don't sweat.
| Tears are very rare. I cried for first child born, I
| didn't for second, even though I felt the same. Was an
| early symptom. But felt bad for years.
|
| In case of pancreases, I got pancreatitis. Turned out
| that was an early sign of Sjogrens. At that point
| ultrasound was clean. Years later, Now it shows damage.
| aksss wrote:
| You don't need to ask a GP for blood work, just order it
| online and go to the lab, then get your results via the lab's
| portal (e.g. Quest).
|
| I'm not sure these tests are good for diagnosing triggers
| though, compared to quarterly or biannual management of a
| disease (to make sure you're not headed off the rails). The
| range for CRP, for instance, is relatively broad. What's
| serious is when you're exceeding the reference high.
|
| In these cases (like maxed out SED rate) chronic inflammation
| is a thing and more than "feeling bad". It does lasting
| damage so the quicker you can respond to it the better, and
| IME that kind of inflammation sneaks up on a person and often
| goes undiagnosed until other downstream problems start to
| present themselves.
|
| There's a bit of fashion to talking about "cytokine storms"
| and inflammation that is partly healthy to be aware of (and
| interesting to the seriously curious) but also a lot of
| faddish health nuttery lately. Be careful of the snake oil
| salesmen out there, folks.
|
| Diets, supplements, exercise equipment, OTC meds, are as
| often nets to harvest disposable income more than they are
| serious approaches to managing disease.
|
| For people suffering autoimmune disorders, much can be done
| with simple balanced diets and regular low stress body weight
| exercising. The key is avoiding things like excessive
| drinking, high mental stress levels, sleep dep. All the good
| advice for Puritan living that really applies to all of us,
| just that they have far, far lower tolerances for deviation.
| Response to NSAIDs may indicate what you're fighting but if
| you're there you've already failed upstream from where you
| are now. Chronic NSAID use isn't all that great either but is
| often an unavoidable supplement for those trying to hold a
| normal career these days. This kind of internal feedback loop
| is more cost effective and probably more accurate for
| behavior correction than looking at daily blood work.
| dsizzle wrote:
| Do you think SED rate is better than CRP then? It doesn't
| seem like I've had that test either. I have hypothyroidism,
| which can be autoimmune related, but no doctor has ever
| suggested either test, nor mentioned inflammation. I get
| TSH tested every 6 months though, and sometimes have to
| adjust Synthroid. I've asked about the causes of these
| fluctuations and doctors basically just shrug. I have no
| theory for it either.
| treeman79 wrote:
| My sed is always good. Usually ANA, is first step.
|
| Time to see a rheumatologist
| dsizzle wrote:
| What's ANA?
| stonecraftwolf wrote:
| Not all autoimmune conditions show up in bloodwork, and
| sometimes they only show up when they've progressed to the
| point of organ damage. Typically this lack of positive tests
| is used to invalidate the experience of people with those
| conditions (usually women). This often seems to come from the
| implicit assumption that we know all the physiological
| markers and mechanisms of autoimmune disease, when nothing
| could be further from the truth. We know very little, and how
| a patient feels matters.
| aksss wrote:
| I've met people with "all the markers but one" and thus
| never get a neat diagnosis of a known disease, and it's
| very devastating to live with that kind of an unknown where
| doctors have so few answers or cures (not that they have
| all that much more with known AI diseases, but it's more
| comforting to be bucketized than most people know). For
| lack of better solutions they can get put on daily
| prednisone for months (or years!) which causes a wholly
| different set of health challenges to manage the first. It
| can be very hard for folks walking homeless through a
| desert of autoimmune knowledge. Often my advice is, "what
| would you do if you had that last marker? Adopt a lifestyle
| as if you did: watch your food intake, do gentle but
| _regular_ exercise, get plenty of sleep, reduce mental and
| physical stress, avoid excess (sun, drink, food, etc)."
| I've yet to meet anyone with a neat diagnosis that _wants_
| to be on immunosuppressive drugs, so even these folks must
| strive to manage their disease through disciplined
| lifestyle changes.
|
| I also understand the need for doctors to be measured in
| their diagnosis, so I don't begrudge them for following
| protocols established for disease qualification. I don't
| think of it as invalidating experiences of patients (though
| it can feel that way to patients) but everyone is aware of
| those that _want_ a diagnosed health problem, and to a more
| frequent extent, those that want a tidy answer to their
| experiences even if there isn't one. Denying a diagnosis of
| a known disease is not denying a diagnosis at all.
| alach11 wrote:
| There's a huge benefit to getting a specific diagnosis.
| Treatments for Lupus vs. MS vs. vasculitis vs. other AI
| diseases are very different. And many of these are life-
| threatening without proper treatment; lifestyle changes
| won't cut it.
|
| My wife struggled with weird autoimmune symptoms that
| eventually progressed enough to get a diagnosis. At the
| time of her diagnosis, her life expectancy without
| treatment was 1-2 years. I empathize a lot with patients
| and doctors who are trying to dial-in on a mysterious
| illness.
| treeman79 wrote:
| Lost a year due to this.
|
| Had to push hard for further testing. Plus just trying
| the treatment. Had a big positive response. If I hadn't
| pushed they would have just had me come in once a year to
| "check".
|
| One of the factors that got me a diagnosis.
| quotz wrote:
| Had loads of brain fog for 2-3 years straight in college. Kept
| gradually getting worse, changed about 20 docs, nobody knew how
| to treat it and they thought I had mental health problems.
|
| Then I took matters in my own hands, joined some forums and
| subreddits, turn out loads of people were like me. Literally
| thousands of people in online communities had undiagnosed Low
| Testosterone. Most docs are uneducated about this as they just
| look at the blood test lab results, and group everyone from age
| 20 to age 70 in the same category. Went to a mens health doc,
| gave me TRT, symptoms gone in a week. Literally saved my life
| and career, I almost dropped out of college. I put my dad on
| TRT too, and litterally I tell everyone about this. The Low T
| epidemic is a really serious issue!
| danielscrubs wrote:
| I was very tired all the time. Doctors took blood tests and
| found out I was low on testosterone, called in a specialist
| that looked at the same blood tests and said it was ok
| because I had enough free testosterone if I remember it
| correctly. Never did solve it. Any advice?
| quotz wrote:
| Of course, join r/testosterone read the info. Then, go do
| blood tests again. Total T has to be >600 ng/dl no matter
| ur age or what anyone says. If you dont want to bother
| diagnosing yourself, find a mens health doctor in your area
| on the subreddit. If you cant, then I can advise you
| further I will give you my contact. I am on it for 2 years
| already, I put my 60yo dad on it as well, I have a doc in
| NYC called Dr Rotman, I can give you his contact if you
| live nearby
| the_drunkard wrote:
| Did you have blood work done to diagnose low T?
|
| My understanding is that T levels can vary based on the time
| of day they're taken, so they likely need to be taken
| multiple times.
|
| In any event, glad you arrived at a solution!
| tunnuz wrote:
| Can you elaborate on treatment and lifestyle? How does one know
| if they have brain fog? Sorry if the question is silly.
| arnonejoe wrote:
| Originally reported in Nature on Jan 20.
| https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-00063-6
| xwdv wrote:
| Lately I haven't really been too convinced about the benefits of
| fasting. While fasting is probably good, exercising regularly and
| putting a consistent stream of good nutrients into your body is
| still probably better at preventing all kinds of aging. Fasting
| is just more accessible to those who do not have access to steady
| source of good nutrition, and it takes no real effort beyond not
| eating.
| sradman wrote:
| The paper _Restoring metabolism of myeloid cells reverses
| cognitive decline in ageing_ [1]:
|
| > Here we show that in ageing mice myeloid cell bioenergetics are
| suppressed in response to increased signalling by the lipid
| messenger prostaglandin E2 (PGE2), a major modulator of
| inflammation. In ageing macrophages and microglia, PGE2
| signalling through its EP2 receptor promotes the sequestration of
| glucose into glycogen, reducing glucose flux and mitochondrial
| respiration. This energy-deficient state, which drives
| maladaptive pro-inflammatory responses, is further augmented by a
| dependence of aged myeloid cells on glucose as a principal fuel
| source. In aged mice, inhibition of myeloid EP2 signalling
| rejuvenates cellular bioenergetics, systemic and brain
| inflammatory states, hippocampal synaptic plasticity and spatial
| memory. Moreover, blockade of peripheral myeloid EP2 signalling
| is sufficient to restore cognition in aged mice. Our study
| suggests that cognitive ageing is not a static or irrevocable
| condition but can be reversed by reprogramming myeloid glucose
| metabolism to restore youthful immune functions.
|
| [1] https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-020-03160-0
| [deleted]
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